next »

[6stringapprentice]

Skip to around the 2 min mark.

Brian Carn - Mighty Anointing Rains on Crowd (1)

Has anyone noticed a slight trend of people being somewhat disrespectful to musicians in public settings. It's not an epidemic or anything but it seems like it is happening more regularly that it use to. Now I totally agree if musicians are killing the service or not flowing with the service they need to be checked. But what i've winessed is more musicians not playing exactly what the speaker feels they should be type of thing. Take the above video I dont think the service would have been affected if he hadn't been so focused on what the musicians were doing.

I recently played for a conference w Juanita Bynum and I can tell you that her tone with the musician's from the moment she took the mic was less than respectful. I have no problem with receiving instruction but I don't really appreciate being chastised for not doing something I wasn't instructed to do in the first place. It seems to happen exclusively with people who aren't familiar with each other ei guest speakers, guest musicians. Churches hire very experienced musicans but it seems like everyone knows better than the MD. I've seen MDs getting suggestions on what to play from the pulpit to the choir stand to the audience. I am also confused about everyone feeling the need to make the grand announcement in a dramatic voice "It's not about the music" 

Warning ranting below

I had another experience earlier this year where I was invited to come to a rehearsal for our jurisdiction. Now our jurisdiction stretches all the way from North to South Louisiana and the musicians around this area are pretty involved. Usually rehearsals are at the headquarters which is in South LA so when rehearsal came up this way quite a few of our musicians showed up. So at the end of rehearsal the directer turns to the musician section and proceeds to talk to us like some junior high students who got caught peeping in the girls locker room. Saying things like he needs us at every rehearsal not just the ones we feel like it and he's the one signs the checks and etc. So my mood went from like  Now I wasn't even thinking about any money I just came because I was invited but obiedience is better than sacrafice so I made the last two rehearsal one in Monroe(35 min away) and one in Shreveport (hour and half away).

So when it comes time for the meeting I missed class to help them setup the FOH for the musicians. Now we planned to setup, eat, change, and go to service. But due to lack of help we ended up working up until service started which was around 5 hours later. So we had the same clothes on. None of us were dressed bad just not dressed for COGIC service if you know what I mean I had a polo and jeans on. Now we are tired, hungry, and a little irritated and the Director comes down from his Hotel room probably fresh out of the shower and looks at us like were are straight out of a Jay z video. He again goes on a tirade about he's not going to put up with us dressing any kind of way etc and after service gives a similar speech for those who missed the first one. We tried to explain but he gave us the ole not trying to hear it hand. So I came dressed the next night and the sat service, after which we had to tear down the FOH for the musician's. Now I had been yelled at, worked like a slave and been to back and forth to monroe twice and back and forth to Shreveport 4 times for around 14 hours total on the road. And at the end of the day he hands the MD $50 to give me.

As always the above is just opinion and I reserve the right the be wrong. 

[under13]

WoW. He was wildin. I would never ever play for that dude. He should have brought his own musicians with him.

I dont mind receiving direction from the pulpit, I actually prefer it...but things are to be done decently and in order, and that minister did not behave decently, and he was most defiantly out of order.

And yes I have noticed such a trend, though not on such a level as shown in the clip.

[BigFoot_BigThumb]

That was so unnecessary.  Some strings aint got nothing to do with the anointing remaining in the room. 


But I mean he is a prophet so he should have already known it was gonna happen before service right?

[musiqisme26]

i dont know that the musicians shouldnt accept some blame in that video.......im not gonna argue to defend anyones side but i will say the lead instrument is always the mic and i think the mic was pretty direct and clear to where he wanted to the musicians to be. it should not have taken almost 2 minutes for strings to be heard and not 40 seconds to turn down

i wasnt there so i dont know if they heard him or not, what the sound was like

one thing i do believe is that visiting ministers should not expect musicians to know what they do in their house, thats like someone coming into your home and expecting your kids to act like theirs


if you are requested to bring water dont bring kool aid

[Fenix]

He should have brought his own musicians with him.

I need to send you a check.

[T-Block]

That was so unnecessary.  Some strings aint got nothing to do with the anointing remaining in the room.  


But I mean he is a prophet so he should have already known it was gonna happen before service right?

This. I can't stand when other people try to instruct me on how to play my instrument.

And this, LOL.

[lordluvr]

Yeah, I wasn't too happy with how he dealt with the musicians.  I noticed something else, thought- and this may open a can of worms- but the power of suggestion was heavy in that room.  It really makes me wonder how much of what went on throughout the service was a move of God or simply the power of suggestion.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack or anything.  Just wanted to make an observation.

[organplaya04]

I watched both clips...IMO it seemed like some rebellion was going on with the musicians..cause I mean he did ask for something ...and they took a while...NOW I will say that his way of handling it was kinnda harsh and a little over the top..but aye you know what they say "Prophets set order in the house"....

[lordluvr]

I watched both clips...IMO it seemed like some rebellion was going on with the musicians..cause I mean he did ask for something ...and they took a while...NOW I will say that his way of handling it was kinnda harsh and a little over the top..but aye you know what they say "Prophets set order in the house"....

Seemed to me that within about 20 seconds, one of the musicians switched to an EP/Strings combo, but it was more EP than strings.  To me, it was less about rebellion and more about not knowing what the preacher really wanted.

[churchyreal]

WoW. He was wildin. I would never ever play for that dude. He should have brought his own musicians with him.
I dont mind receiving direction from the pulpit, I actually prefer it...but things are to be done decently and in order, and that minister did not behave decently, and he was most defiantly out of order.

And yes I have noticed such a trend, though not on such a level as shown in the clip.

I agree! If he wanted the music done the way HE wanted then he should have brought his own musicians.

This type of incident is one of the reasons why I truly question my future in music ministry, particuarly in the black church but most likely in church music period! There is such a high focus on music to the point if the musicians are not playing exactly what and how the pastor wants it then the pastor or whoever is leading at the moment becomes harsh and tries to put the musician on blast. I can't deal with that and refuse to.

The way that this prophet could have done was he could have spoke in the ear of the musicians and told them how he wanted it, the musician gets to what he wanted and the prophet instruct them there in private instead of putting them on blast. If he would have done that to me and I was driving my own car I might have walked out and explained to the pastor of the house later.

What I want someone to tell me is what is the connection between strings being played and the anointing falling? At the end of the day does it matter whether strings are being played or not as the anointing comes in? To me that is totally subjective (based on opinion). I don't think whether you play organ or strings is going to affect the anointing falling.

These videos (I saw both) also make me question if we put too much emphasis on music in the church and if we allow music to be so much of a focus that it gets us away from the bigger picture of what we should be focusing on. I mean my gosh focus on the anointing and if the music is there fine. If not, still fine.

I understand that it's about being on "one accord" (and I think that's misunderstood as a whole in the church) but there is always a better way to say things. At the end of the day it's not about what you say but HOW YOU SAY IT! This is something that needs to be learned in the black church seriously!

Sorry that I started venting but this is a very big issue to me and like I said it's stuff like this that makes me wonder if I want to move into the professional ranks in the next few years and play under preachers/pastors who are VERY strict about music.

[LaRue1212]

I'm with Musiqisme26 on this one.

Dude had to ask like 3 or 4 times. That can be annoying.

Personally, I'm not into music like that when I'm preaching or teaching, but for some reason, when I'm praying, I'd prefer either NO music or "churchy" chords. Our lead musician is like the king of strings, and I'm not sure why, but it irks the heck out of me. I HATE to hear strings when I'm praying. So I'll usually ask him ahead of time not to play strings. Once in a while, he'll play them and I'll have to tell him while praying to nix the strings. That's annoying.

A speaker should be able to communicate ONE TIME to the musician what they want, and as long as those instructions are clear, that should be enough. Brian, with all his other issues notwithstanding, gave clear instructions that weren't less than respectful the first time.

[BassbyGrace]

I guess Im the only one that didnt see anything wrong with the clip.  For one he did continually ask CLEARLY what he wanted.  I mean I can understand if he was like, I want Ab sus chords in 2nd inversion when I shout and Db min 7 with a #11 when I pray.  His instructions werent that hard.  I dont think it had anything to do with having a diff style or not knowing what he wanted.  I think our musician's bias comes into effect alot of times when this comes about.  Some situations its not us (per 6strings last story), but think about it. If you are really trying to be in tune with what is going on (alot of times musician's arent) you would be sensitive to whats happening in the congregation and what the minister is doing or/and asking.  In my watching, as soon as he said it, I knew what he was looking for.  And when he said, shhhhh, I would have brought it down.  But I listen to everything that goes on and keep a hawk's eye on who ever is in charge.  I think as musician's, we have to understand music can be a hinderance if we are not insync, and it takes sensitivity to humbleness.   

[Rshay]

Well, I didn't see much either.  All I will say is that he's one of those aggressive speakers.  He was instructing them on how to come in along with what he was try to get through with. I think you're suppose to obey the leader. They were a little slow coming down but I guess they were get a little excited or happy. LOL  But I wouldn't say that it was less than respect. 

[betnich]

Now I had been yelled at, worked like a slave and been to back and forth to monroe twice and back and forth to Shreveport 4 times for around 14 hours total on the road. And at the end of the day he hands the MD $50 to give me.

Wow! The Music Director didn't think to help you out with setup and teardown? And I thought Slavery days were over...

Yes, some MOMs can get swell-headed and on a power trip. But they get lots of stress from leaders and the congregation ('Why are your musicians in jeans and T-shirts?') I guess the WORST thing is when a musician gets one set of instructions from their MOM, and another from their Pastor or the guest speaker....

 

[sjonathan02]

I guess Im the only one that didnt see anything wrong with the clip.  For one he did continually ask CLEARLY what he wanted.  I mean I can understand if he was like, I want Ab sus chords in 2nd inversion when I shout and Db min 7 with a #11 when I pray.  His instructions werent that hard.  I dont think it had anything to do with having a diff style or not knowing what he wanted.  I think our musician's bias comes into effect alot of times when this comes about.  Some situations its not us (per 6strings last story), but think about it. If you are really trying to be in tune with what is going on (alot of times musician's arent) you would be sensitive to whats happening in the congregation and what the minister is doing or/and asking.  In my watching, as soon as he said it, I knew what he was looking for.  And when he said, shhhhh, I would have brought it down.  But I listen to everything that goes on and keep a hawk's eye on who ever is in charge.  I think as musician's, we have to understand music can be a hinderance if we are not insync, and it takes sensitivity to humbleness.  

This.

  I noticed something else, thought- and this may open a can of worms- but the power of suggestion was heavy in that room.  It really makes me wonder how much of what went on throughout the service was a move of God or simply the power of suggestion.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack or anything.  Just wanted to make an observation.

And this.



Allow me to add; there's a dude in the pulpit just watchin' the whole thing. Why doesn't he go over to the musicians area and communicate what dude wanted?


And yea, just give the man strings.  


Now, there was other stuff within the vid that was 'extra' to me. BTJM so I'll  

[SirTJ]

I can't give a valid opinion, because there could have very well been an unseen issue going on. For one, it's not highly unlikely at all that the musician may have been unfamiliar with the board, and therefore it took him a while to find a decent strings patch. Not everyone knows the layout of a keyboard like the back of their hand, and non-musicians often times don't realize this. They think you're just supposed to press a button and BOOM...strings.

And as stated above...much 'extra' going on. Typical, though. 

[Rshay]

I can't give a valid opinion, because there could have very well been an unseen issue going on. For one, it's not highly unlikely at all that the musician may have been unfamiliar with the board, and therefore it took him a while to find a decent strings patch. Not everyone knows the layout of a keyboard like the back of their hand, and non-musicians often times don't realize this. They think you're just supposed to press a button and BOOM...strings.

And as stated above...much 'extra' going on. Typical, though. 

I think I understand that much 'extra' going on, TJ.

[churchyreal]

I'm with Musiqisme26 on this one.

Dude had to ask like 3 or 4 times. That can be annoying.

Personally, I'm not into music like that when I'm preaching or teaching, but for some reason, when I'm praying, I'd prefer either NO music or "churchy" chords. Our lead musician is like the king of strings, and I'm not sure why, but it irks the heck out of me. I HATE to hear strings when I'm praying. So I'll usually ask him ahead of time not to play strings. Once in a while, he'll play them and I'll have to tell him while praying to nix the strings. That's annoying.

A speaker should be able to communicate ONE TIME to the musician what they want, and as long as those instructions are clear, that should be enough. Brian, with all his other issues notwithstanding, gave clear instructions that weren't less than respectful the first time.

Well, I didn't see much either.  All I will say is that he's one of those aggressive speakers.  He was instructing them on how to come in along with what he was try to get through with. I think you're suppose to obey the leader. They were a little slow coming down but I guess they were get a little excited or happy. LOL  But I wouldn't say that it was less than respect. 

So none of you all had a problem with this tone? You don't have a problem with him putting the musician on blast?

[Rshay]

Nope, bcuz the musician should've brought it down when he said so.
They were slow.

[LaRue1212]

I guess Im the only one that didnt see anything wrong with the clip.  For one he did continually ask CLEARLY what he wanted.  I mean I can understand if he was like, I want Ab sus chords in 2nd inversion when I shout and Db min 7 with a #11 when I pray.  His instructions werent that hard.  I dont think it had anything to do with having a diff style or not knowing what he wanted.  I think our musician's bias comes into effect alot of times when this comes about.  Some situations its not us (per 6strings last story), but think about it. If you are really trying to be in tune with what is going on (alot of times musician's arent) you would be sensitive to whats happening in the congregation and what the minister is doing or/and asking.  In my watching, as soon as he said it, I knew what he was looking for.  And when he said, shhhhh, I would have brought it down.  But I listen to everything that goes on and keep a hawk's eye on who ever is in charge.  I think as musician's, we have to understand music can be a hinderance if we are not insync, and it takes sensitivity to humbleness.   

Totally agree with you bruh, and no, you're not the only one who didn't see anything wrong with the clip.  See my post right above yours.  And I think Musiqisme is in agreement also. I just don't think dude should've had to ask so many times. Not to mention, we don't know what took place prior to the clip. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he had already built up a frustration, having gone back and forth with the musicians for the entire service. I've seen that too many times myself.  How many times does the person in the mic say "break it down" and they don't really break it down? Most, if not all, of us have witnessed or seen a clip of a musicians just getting lost in the instrument and not paying a bit of attention to where the service is going or what the preacher wants.

Anyway, like BBG said, music can be a hindrance if the musicians aren't in synch.

I can't give a valid opinion, because there could have very well been an unseen issue going on. For one, it's not highly unlikely at all that the musician may have been unfamiliar with the board, and therefore it took him a while to find a decent strings patch. Not everyone knows the layout of a keyboard like the back of their hand, and non-musicians often times don't realize this. They think you're just supposed to press a button and BOOM...strings.
And as stated above...much 'extra' going on. Typical, though. 

Very good point, Teej. I, for one, was thinking they could just press a button and BOOM... strings. *shrug* Glad you mentioned that.

So none of you all had a problem with this tone? You don't have a problem with him putting the musician on blast?

I didn't. If the musician had done what the speaker had asked him to do, things may have transpired a little differently. It's annoying and frustrating to be in the mic and there's fingernails on the chalkboard behind you (and I know first hand that that's exactly what it can feel like when the music isn't doing what you need it to do... it's a hindrance). His tone was probably what it was because he asked several times and got no response. People in ministry - not just musicians, either - need to learn to humble themselves, submit, go with the flow, follow the leader, and work together, and stop trying to be a single shining star. (Not saying these musicians were NOT doing any of these things... just speaking in general).

A service is not the "Just Jack" Show.