Questions about salvation and the Holy Ghost

[LaylaMonroe]

I have two questions that crossed my mind.

1. Do you believe a person can be saved, but not sanctified?

2. Do you believe that when a person receives salvation, they are automatically filled with the Holy Ghost at the same time they receive salvation?

[BigMike07]

I have two questions that crossed my mind.

1. Do you believe a person can be saved, but not sanctified?

2. Do you believe that when a person receives salvation, they are automatically filled with the Holy Ghost at the same time they receive salvation?

1. I don't know, I think that in order to be saved you have to be sanctified, but I don't know

2. NO

[biblethumpa]

According to Acts 19:2 , you can believe (be saved) and not have the HolyGhost. Peter asked the believer's "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."...so you can believe and not be filled..

[dingster1]

Agree with ^^ this

[sjonathan02]

Agree with ^^ this

+1

[LaylaMonroe]

According to Acts 19:2 , you can believe (be saved) and not have the HolyGhost. Peter asked the believer's "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."...so you can believe and not be filled..

So what about the first question?

Can you be saved, but not set apart (sanctified)?

And as for the first answer, if you are saved, but not yet filled with the Holy Ghost, how do you know when you've received the Holy Ghost? (And no, this isn't a trick question about speaking in tongues).  I know that many of us don't believe one must speak in tongues in order to have the Holy Ghost (or to be clear, some don't believe that speaking in tongues as the spirit gives utterance is evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost).  So in that case, how does one who doesn't speak in tongues know without a shadow of a doubt that they've been filled with the Holy Ghost?

[NJTheBishopAnderson]

I have two questions that crossed my mind.

1. Do you believe a person can be saved, but not sanctified?

2. Do you believe that when a person receives salvation, they are automatically filled with the Holy Ghost at the same time they receive salvation?

Well, you know me... and my background... and my thoughts about the subject.

..to answer the questions...
1) In the cases I've seen where the individual was totally, completely and without a doubt filled, sanctification was immediate. With others, it took time until the Lord completed His work in them.

2) No. The initial evidence is the "other tongues".  IRT biblethumpa's comment, you can believe and still not received. This is why you continue to read to Acts 19:6... it shows the end result of those "believers". 

[Skizo Frene]

So you two crazy kids have kissed and made up?  No more brawlin' in threads 'n' stuff?  That's wonderful.  God is pleased.

[LaylaMonroe]

Well, you know me... and my background... and my thoughts about the subject.

..to answer the questions...
1) In the cases I've seen where the individual was totally, completely and without a doubt filled, sanctification was immediate. With others, it took time until the Lord completed His work in them.

2) No. The initial evidence is the "other tongues".  IRT biblethumpa's comment, you can believe and still not received. This is why you continue to read to Acts 19:6... it shows the end result of those "believers". 

So IRT #1, if the Lord is "working" on them and they aren't yet sanctified (which means, as you know, set apart for the Master's use), are they still saved?

I would ask a question about #2, but I already know what your answer would be... lol.

[churchyreal]

I have two questions that crossed my mind.

1. Do you believe a person can be saved, but not sanctified?

2. Do you believe that when a person receives salvation, they are automatically filled with the Holy Ghost at the same time they receive salvation?

Question 1: No. When someone is saved they are sanctified. From what I was taught there are three stages to sanctification: past (I am sanctified), present (I am being sanctified/God is sanctifying me) and future (I will be completely sanctified). Therefore when one becomes saved they begin the process of sanctification.

Question 2: This is a very tough question and ironically me and dad was discussing this last night. Traditionally I have been taught that when you ask Christ to come into your life you must also ask the Holy Spirit to fill you as well but over the years I've began to reevaluate that. I've also heard that when you as Christ to be in your life you are also asking God for His Holy Spirit.

[NJTheBishopAnderson]

So you two crazy kids have kissed and made up?  No more brawlin' in threads 'n' stuff?  That's wonderful.  God is pleased.

Whatchu talkin 'bout?? Rue is my sister...practically flesh and blood. I love her as much as I can't stand her.     

IRT Rue's question, I would just advise them to stay on the altar. To say they aren't saved more than likely would discourage them.

IRT Churchy's comment... I can get with that... *family feud claps* "Good answer... good answer.."

[LaylaMonroe]

Whatchu talkin 'bout?? Rue is my sister...practically flesh and blood. I love her as much as I can't stand her.     

IRT Rue's question, I would just advise them to stay on the altar. To say they aren't saved more than likely would discourage them.

And the feeling is mutual, you jerk!!!! 


No seriously, RJ... he's right. LOL. We fuss like cats and dogs, but that's my brudda for life!  (Lord, take me soon!!!!) 

[docjohn]

I think it can happen either way Rue,as LORD dictates.If you read 4 GOSPELS;with regards to the apostles specifically-it seems they were saved and had various degress of "fillings" of HOLY SPIRIT BEfore pentecost! Peter's confession -when JESUS asked "who do men,who do you say I AM"(JOHN?)is a straight forward confession of JESUS.Further,CHRIST sent them out in the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT BEfore HIS death.

If you read ACTS,starting in chptr 8 thru chptr 19,most of the even numbered chptrs show the various ways LORD annointed believers.ACTS 19 ;to me shows another day of pentecost(Corinth);as well as MANY days of pentecost.Literally,I think LORD continually allows pentecost to empower us to do HIS work.

references ACTS 2:1-5,17-21,    ACTS 4:30-33 ACTS 8 :5-17 ACTS 10:43-48,   ACTS 11:15-30, ACTS 15:1-15,ACTS 19 :1-10;I think there's one reference btwn ACTS 11-19 where it appears there was a filling of HOLY SPIRIT PRior to salvation;if you don't find it-let me know;will have to look in my other BIBLE.

Lest we forget, HOLY SPIRIT worked thru men of OLD TESTAMENT-specifically the prophets PRIOR to JESUS,remember David's cry to "please do NOT take THY SPIRIT away from me LORD!!!" enjoy,hope it helps

[funkStrat_97]

I know that many of us don't believe one must speak in tongues in order to have the Holy Ghost (or to be clear, some don't believe that speaking in tongues as the spirit gives utterance is evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost).  So in that case, how does one who doesn't speak in tongues know without a shadow of a doubt that they've been filled with the Holy Ghost?

 Because we walk by faith and not by sight.  I come from a church that taught this very doctrine (pretty much all Apostolic churches adhere to this).  We used to have tarry services where one would repeat "Jesus-Jesus-Jesus..........." for what seemed like an eternity until you spoke in a tongue.  Seems like a lot of work....but aren't we saved by grace through faith and not by our works?  We are not saved by how many times we say "Jesus" or how many "hallelujahs" you can say per minute, but we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.  The problem as I see it is that in that tradition, there was so much emphasis placed on anointings and moving in the prophetic and so on that there was a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of salvation.  No doubt, people got saved (through grace), but the teaching and approach was wrong.

As a side note on the subject of tarry services: a friend of mine from back home (Trinidad) told me about this young man who had just accepted Christ and was to attend this tarry service so that he might receive the Holy Spirit.  The elder with whom he was to tarry with was a bit out of touch with the rest of world so at some point during the service (perhaps out boredom or just wanting to get it over and done with) , the young man uttered the phrase 'yabba-dabba-doo' and was declared to be filled with the Spirit.

[sjonathan02]

Because we walk by faith and not by sight.  I come from a church that taught this very doctrine (pretty much all Apostolic churches adhere to this).  We used to have tarry services where one would repeat "Jesus-Jesus-Jesus..........." for what seemed like an eternity until you spoke in a tongue.  Seems like a lot of work....but aren't we saved by grace through faith and not by our works?  We are not saved by how many times we say "Jesus" or how many "hallelujahs" you can say per minute, but we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.  The problem as I see it is that in that tradition, there was so much emphasis placed on anointings and moving in the prophetic and so on that there was a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of salvation.  No doubt, people got saved (through grace), but the teaching and approach was wrong.

As a side note on the subject of tarry services: a friend of mine from back home (Trinidad) told me about this young man who had just accepted Christ and was to attend this tarry service so that he might receive the Holy Spirit.  The elder with whom he was to tarry with was a bit out of touch with the rest of world so at some point during the service (perhaps out boredom or just wanting to get it over and done with) , the young man uttered the phrase 'yabba-dabba-doo' and was declared to be filled with the Spirit.

This.


And, to the part in bold, this:---->

[B3Wannabe]

1.Yes. Sanctification is a process by which we set ourselves apart for God's use, very rarely is it the reverse (God setting us apart; many are called, but few are chosen).

2. I believe there are cases where people are "filled" with the Holy Ghost, and then there are cases where they just "received" the Holy Ghost. It is possible for everyone to be filled, but as we minister, that virtue comes out into those we minister to...which means we have to be "refilled".

[Skizo Frene]

moot.

[sjonathan02]

moot.

'splain.

[gtrdave]

Because we walk by faith and not by sight.  I come from a church that taught this very doctrine (pretty much all Apostolic churches adhere to this).  We used to have tarry services where one would repeat "Jesus-Jesus-Jesus..........." for what seemed like an eternity until you spoke in a tongue.  Seems like a lot of work....but aren't we saved by grace through faith and not by our works?  We are not saved by how many times we say "Jesus" or how many "hallelujahs" you can say per minute, but we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.  The problem as I see it is that in that tradition, there was so much emphasis placed on anointings and moving in the prophetic and so on that there was a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of salvation.  No doubt, people got saved (through grace), but the teaching and approach was wrong.

As a side note on the subject of tarry services: a friend of mine from back home (Trinidad) told me about this young man who had just accepted Christ and was to attend this tarry service so that he might receive the Holy Spirit.  The elder with whom he was to tarry with was a bit out of touch with the rest of world so at some point during the service (perhaps out boredom or just wanting to get it over and done with) , the young man uttered the phrase 'yabba-dabba-doo' and was declared to be filled with the Spirit.

Amen and "BWUAHAHAHAHA" and all that.

[Skizo Frene]

moot.

'splain.

I think we stress the details too much.  You followed the mandate by being baptized.  The rest is God's part.  After being baptized, pray, read the Word, forgive, show love, do your very best to walk uprightly before Him and everything will be alright.

If you get baptized today and Jesus comes tomorrow, and you haven't received the Holy Ghost, do you think He'd say "sorry, you can't get in"?   

Do your best to walk with God and everything else will fall into place.