8yr Old Expelled from School for drawing a picture of Jesus

[nessalynn77]

^^^I will say however, it does speak to the focus of your ministry... if your focus is Christ, should he not make the 30 minute cut as well?  What's the purpose of preaching if you don't preach Jesus? 

[T-Block]

I don't see anything wrong with this video. I think a more offensive message to a lot of people (who don't wanna live right) is holiness or hell rather than Jesus on the cross, but that's just my personal opinion.

[LaylaMonroe]

^^^I will say however, it does speak to the focus of your ministry... if your focus is Christ, should he not make the 30 minute cut as well?  What's the purpose of preaching if you don't preach Jesus? 

After I posted that, I realized that the 30-minute programs are clipped from the 60-minute programs. It's the same sermon, it just excludes P&W and the greetings from Victoria and/or Dodie, and the altar call.  That means that if I've seen him mention it on the 60-minute program, I'm sure those who watch the ENTIRE 30-minute programs have seen it as well.  The problem here is that Joel Osteen has been labeled and once you get labeled by the BOC, you can pretty much forget ever changing that reputation... unless you don sackcloth and ashes, publicly repent and stay out of the limelight for a year or two.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I saw the video. I don't have anything to add IRT the video that hasn't already been said.

However...

When I see someone that's close to my age or younger saying they're a pastor/bishop/apostle, I mentally distance myself, not mostly because I'm questioning their calling, but moreso their maturity. I question whether they have the mental and spiritual maturity, and social support system, to stand up against the attacks that will come against them. They don't have to be "perfect" but I don't want to be too close to anyone with those titles who is shaky. Leading God's people is a serious thing, and I don't want to be involved in any fallouts/controversies.

I totally agree. But I just want to point out that he (or any young person sporting the "Pastor" title) could be a youth pastor at his church, which would mean he's subjected to the leadership of a (possibly) older, wiser man of God. This is, IMO, different.  I'm only bringing this up because like an hour ago, I ran across a lady on FB that has been on the Prayer Call a few times. When I saw her picture, I said to my friend "THAT'S Pastor So-and-So??????"  This lady was like 25, maybe.... I dunno. I just had expected her to be older. Then my friend told me that she's the youth pastor, not the senior pastor, and my whole thought process changed... lol.

But anyway, for the same reasons you mentioned, I still hesitate when I come across very young pastors and ESPECIALLY very young Apostles, Prophets, Bishops and Overseers and thangs...

[nessalynn77]

After I posted that, I realized that the 30-minute programs are clipped from the 60-minute programs. It's the same sermon, it just excludes P&W and the greetings from Victoria and/or Dodie, and the altar call.  That means that if I've seen him mention it on the 60-minute program, I'm sure those who watch the ENTIRE 30-minute programs have seen it as well.  The problem here is that Joel Osteen has been labeled and once you get labeled by the BOC, you can pretty much forget ever changing that reputation... unless you don sackcloth and ashes, publicly repent and stay out of the limelight for a year or two.

I gotta say, from watching his program first-hand on many occasions, that though he gives a lot of good tips for living and really challenges us to live up to our potential and represent well as believers, I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've heard him preach Jesus, whether directly or as a side bar or as a conclusion.  That's an impression I got all on my own, because I don't generally watch news magazine show coverage of preachers.  It's just too slanted for me.  The agenda is definitely not in support of God's church and the Kingdom.  I mean, it is what it is, but if I were to write an outline of his sermons, most of them would not include Jesus or salvation as a main point or a sub-point.  Unless it's changed in the last year and a half, since I haven't watched in about that long.

[THE WOLFMAN]

Well, if you want an example of a church that "ignores" the Cross, there's Lakewood, Joel Houston's church. I love their music, but how many times does Joel on his program actually go over how dirty we all are and how much we need Jesus's blood to cover us? People criticize him for that all the time. And his church is huge.

ok, I'll weigh in on this, cuz my church gets lumped in with this also....FREQUENTLY.

Are you a member of that church? Have you heard what happens in there EVERY TIME there is service? Are you there when the cameras aint on?

Or Are you creating a summary judgment based on a series of 30 minute moments in time?

Sure, we need Jesus blood to cover us, but if i recall my skripchaz right, theres a WHOOOOOOLE LOT of verses that are encouraging edifying, empowering of one's self, through Jesus Christ.

..Fearfully & wonderfully made....
..you are complete in Him...
..a royal priesthood..
...Thus saith the Lord: Ye are gods (GREAT, MIGHTY IN THE HEBREW, NOT DEITY)and children of the Most High....

Is it better to tell someone how wretched they are, or to tell them, through Christ, how magnificent they are(can be)?

Unless you're under that ministry, and you hear what the pastor is saying, all the time, every sermon, such statements are erroneous.



oh, Welcome by the way.


Now go get us some chiccen.

With biskits.

[sjonathan02]

I gotta say, from watching his program first-hand on many occasions, that though he gives a lot of good tips for living and really challenges us to live up to our potential and represent well as believers, I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've heard him preach Jesus, whether directly or as a side bar or as a conclusion.  That's an impression I got all on my own, because I don't generally watch news magazine show coverage of preachers.  It's just too slanted for me.  The agenda is definitely not in support of God's church and the Kingdom.  I mean, it is what it is, but if I were to write an outline of his sermons, most of them would not include Jesus or salvation as a main point or a sub-point.  Unless it's changed in the last year and a half, since I haven't watched in about that long.

This.

[LaylaMonroe]

ok, I'll weigh in on this, cuz my church gets lumped in with this also....FREQUENTLY.

Are you a member of that church? Have you heard what happens in there EVERY TIME there is service? Are you there when the cameras aint on?

Or Are you creating a summary judgment based on a series of 30 minute moments in time?

Sure, we need Jesus blood to cover us, but if i recall my skripchaz right, theres a WHOOOOOOLE LOT of verses that are encouraging edifying, empowering of one's self, through Jesus Christ.

..Fearfully & wonderfully made....
..you are complete in Him...
..a royal priesthood..
...Thus saith the Lord: Ye are gods (GREAT, MIGHTY IN THE HEBREW, NOT DEITY)and children of the Most High....

Is it better to tell someone how wretched they are, or to tell them, through Christ, how magnificent they are(can be)?

Unless you're under that ministry, and you hear what the pastor is saying, all the time, every sermon, such statements are erroneous.



oh, Welcome by the way.


Now go get us some chiccen.

With biskits.

I agree. But honestly, that is the same argument that's been made for the several years that I've heard those accusations against Osteen (and Price and all the other so-called "fluff preachers").

I tend to fall back on I Corinthians 12, which reminds us that all parts of the body are needed, even those that seem "weak." As I've said countless times, I believe in seed-sowing. Even if Osteen isn't preaching hell, blood, tongues, and all that... he's teaching repentance and most importantly, he's teaching people to get in a good Bible-based church, and develop their own relationship with Jesus the Christ. If he does nothing else, he plants the seed.  

But again:

Are you a member of that church? Have you heard what happens in there EVERY TIME there is service? Are you there when the cameras aint on?

Or Are you creating a summary judgment based on a series of 30 minute moments in time?...

Unless you're under that ministry, and you hear what the pastor is saying, all the time, every sermon, such statements are erroneous.

The bottom line is that the accusation here, verbatim, is that Osteen "ignores the Cross."  He doesn't.

I gotta say, from watching his program first-hand on many occasions, that though he gives a lot of good tips for living and really challenges us to live up to our potential and represent well as believers, I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've heard him preach Jesus, whether directly or as a side bar or as a conclusion.  That's an impression I got all on my own, because I don't generally watch news magazine show coverage of preachers.  It's just too slanted for me.  The agenda is definitely not in support of God's church and the Kingdom.  I mean, it is what it is, but if I were to write an outline of his sermons, most of them would not include Jesus or salvation as a main point or a sub-point.  Unless it's changed in the last year and a half, since I haven't watched in about that long.

He does talk about Jesus and about salvation (definitely salvation, which is offered with an explanation at the end of every broadcast). I guess it could be a matter of personal preference or something, I dunno... or maybe the times you watch, coincidentally, are the times he's not preaching about Jesus. I dunno. But I do know that he does a great deal more than just challenge us to live up to our potential. He challenges his members and the viewing audience to live according to the Word of God (which means live HOLY). He challenges people to respond to situations the way Jesus would. He uses Biblical (and modern-day) examples to illustrate how to choose Godly responses over fleshly or unGodly responses. He teaches about faith. He teaches about the love of Christ (which many preachers don't teach enough of), he teaches about integrity (which is a byproduct of the Holy Ghost)... it's not just prosperity, live your best life, name it and claim it, 3 steps to becoming a millionairre.

Honestly, I think criticisms could probably be made from both extremes and all across the spectrum. Some preachers (especially the older ones in my denomination) don't do anything but holler Jeeeeeeesus, the bloooooooooood, and the Cross!!!!!!!! But give you NO practical tools to live your every day life. At the same time, there are many who mention Jesus, the blood, or the Cross, but really offer no substance at all. And then, there are those (I guess) that don't mention either at all.  Personally, I've never seen a preacher of the gospel who doesn't preach about Jesus, but I'm not doubting they're out there. My point is that I think every gift that exists within the body can be used to build the body of Christ, one way or another. Maybe some are weaker than others and contribute less, but as long as that seed is planted, I think God is glorified. And I reiterate Wolfie's point that we really don't know what goes on at Lakewood, and I'm reluctant to make an assumption based on the broadcast services I've seen.

Reminds me of the time I went to Greater Grace in Detroit. Mannnnn, I had been watching Bishop Ellis for decades... couldn't wait to get to the church. And when I got there... let's just say, I only went once.

[LaylaMonroe]

On second thought, this is probably fruitless. None of us are members of his church or considering membership (at least I don't think we are), so it really doesn't matter to any of us personally. We've had this convo before and always end in the same place. We're not changing each others' minds, so there's really no point in going back and forth about it.

[THE WOLFMAN]

(and Price and all the other so-called "fluff preachers").

i get to hear(see) dude up close an personal, I can tell you it aint fluff.(not sayin you said that) It's very practical and sound.

[LaylaMonroe]

i get to hear(see) dude up close an personal, I can tell you it aint fluff.(not sayin you said that) It's very practical and sound.

Oh yeah I know. I called his name because you said that your church gets lumped in with this frequently, and I know he's your pastor (or overseer or head leader person... lol). I agree his teaching is sound. I haven't listened in years, but Lord KNOWS I grew up hearing it every single Sunday morning while getting ready for church. Sometimes I still wake up on Sundays singing "evidence dun dun dun dun evidence dun dun dun dun... dah dah dah dah evidence"  (yeah, the "dah dah dah" is for the words I never could figure out... lol)

[nessalynn77]

On second thought, this is probably fruitless. None of us are members of his church or considering membership (at least I don't think we are), so it really doesn't matter to any of us personally. We've had this convo before and always end in the same place. We're not changing each others' minds, so there's really no point in going back and forth about it.

I was going to join, but now I'm not.



I came back to insert the smiley --------->   

[docjohn]

Maybe some of the things mentioned are in fact subtle shifts AWAY from the Cross;focusing on man instead of CHRIST .For example,used to attend a church where the focus was "on community"(the byline for the Atlanta INTER faith movement).I see signs ALL the time for "KJV only",multi-cultural,relaxed "dress","relevant" preaching,"loving","distinctives"-all ways to "attract" from the same "pool" of believers.Fix your marriage,self,business-all important things;of course.

I quess there must be a "shortage" of lost people!!!!!!Unfortunately many if not most churches seem to have or convey a "cloistered mentality".I think this is what the pastor was alluding to;it's easier to "swap sheep" from field to field than birth pains of getting new ones.

If you watch the clips from Wofthe master CLOSLEY;you will see MANY people WITH a church background WHO do NOT understand what it means to be saved!!!!!How can this BE today?with ALL the media types;print,live,events,music etc. that is at our disposal?I think about the early disciples-without much;EXCEPT it was visible to the masses they had BEEN with JESUS!!!

Where is that testimony to others in our life?This fall,we spent some time talking with a lot of young people from all kinds of backgrounds.Probably less than 10%could articulate what CHRIST sacrifice meant.We need to do bette bros and sisters.

[dude-on-drums]

A little off subject but, what exactly is a picture of Jesus?  Does anyone know what he really looked like?  And if not, why do people sit around drawing pictures of what they think someone looked like anyway?  I've never seen my great, great, great, great grandmother and would never think to create a false image of her.  Oh and by the way, if you cant tell where I'm going with this, my beef is from the biblical standpoint of drawing, engraving or building false heavenly images. 

Exodus 20:4-6 is just one of many supporting scriptures.

And for the record, I dont think the kid should be disciplined (by the school) for drawing a so-called picture of Jesus.  Would the kid have gotten suspended for drawing a picture of the greek god Zeus?  The world may never know lolol 

[B3Wannabe]

I've never seen my great, great, great, great grandmother and would never think to create a false image of her.

[nessalynn77]

Co-Sign.  Leave it to Kev to bottom line that thang... LOL!