LearnGospelMusic.com Community

Please login or register.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Preaching Engagement Honorariums  (Read 22461 times)

Offline baptistchurchman

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Gender: Male

Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« on: March 28, 2010, 03:04:43 AM »
Do preachers or rather should preachers reach a certain status in their ministry where they have the right to say what you must pay them in order to come and preach? I have a few preacher guys that I know who have made it plain that unless you can pay them a certain amount of money for a preaching engagement they ain't coming. Now I asked this question among friends and suprisingly enough some of them feel that this behavioral practice is justified since the bible says "those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel" (1Cor 9).

I understand that preachers must be paid because the bible says that, nor am I against preachers living well, but if I have reached a level of being paid maybe even tens of thousands of dollars for a preaching engagement, have I gotten so large that I can't preach at the small church that can only give me a few hundred or maybe close to nothing at all?

I happen to pastor a church that only has about 200 members, and I told a friend that I was thinking about bringing a certain pastor to our church to do a revival. His exact words were "oh you don't even need to think about calling him because ya'll can't AFFORD him". Afford? Huh? If we preaching from the same bible, about the same Jesus, what makes his sermons more expensive than anybody elses? Because he has a bigger name? I mean shouldn't they be willing to preach since God did call them to PREACH? Who are we to turn down assignments because of pay?

I know you have to have somewhat of a business mind in order to run the church these days, but have we started to treat the church so much like a business that we forget that it's still church?   
MY BANK ACCOUNT AIN'T EMPTY, IT'S JUST MAKING ROOM FOR MY BLESSING!

Offline under13

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16439
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2010, 08:04:38 AM »
I think this is an interesting issue. I guess when your demand is do high, you just cant make it to every engagement for little or no money. I still think that even the big name preachers should preach at smaller churches sometimes for a fair fee.

I also wonder why do people need to have a big name preacher come to their church? Since you said that they all preach from the same bible...same Jesus, then it shouldn't matter whether the preacher that you bring in has a big name or not.

Offline baptistchurchman

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2010, 09:18:21 AM »
I also wonder why do people need to have a big name preacher come to their church? Since you said that they all preach from the same bible...same Jesus, then it shouldn't matter whether the preacher that you bring in has a big name or not.
MY BANK ACCOUNT AIN'T EMPTY, IT'S JUST MAKING ROOM FOR MY BLESSING!

Offline baptistchurchman

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2010, 09:19:31 AM »
I agree, but I guess I wonder..what makes a preacher a big name? I look at all of us as the same. 
MY BANK ACCOUNT AIN'T EMPTY, IT'S JUST MAKING ROOM FOR MY BLESSING!

Offline LaylaMonroe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36422
  • Gender: Female
  • POW!
    • Order in the Church!

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2010, 09:28:07 AM »
We are not all the same.

I have more to say, but I don't feel like typing it on this BB.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2010, 09:34:33 AM »
I agree, but I guess I wonder..what makes a preacher a big name? I look at all of us as the same. 


We are not all the same.

I have more to say, but I don't feel like typing it on this BB.


This outta be good.  :D
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline B3Wannabe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9331
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2010, 10:45:23 AM »


This outta be good.  :D

Indeed. I bet I know where she's going to go too.

Offline Fenix

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12085
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2010, 11:46:08 AM »
Mme Rue 'bout to lay down that word!

:)
The car, job, house wife/husband are not the reward, God is.

Offline LaylaMonroe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36422
  • Gender: Female
  • POW!
    • Order in the Church!

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 12:28:38 PM »


This outta be good.  :D
Indeed. I bet I know where she's going to go too.

OMG, the pressure! LOL  (love the avatar, btw, SJ).

-------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, my random thoughts on the subject...

1. Preachers are not all the same. Some are better at preaching than others. Some are better at explaining than others. Some are better at clarifying, better at connecting with the congregation, better at articulating their thoughts, better at pronouncing their words, better at keeping the congregation engaged, better at preparing, better at delivering, the list goes on and on... but no, we are not all the same.

2. What makes a preacher a "big name" is when people recognize his/her name. LOL. That was an easy one. No seriously, some preachers are locally big, meaning that everyone in their metro area or state knows who they are.  Some are big only in their organizations.  Some are just plain big. The thing is, people become "big" by preaching well and connecting with the right people, going through the right doors when they open up, etc. (I intentionally left out the spiritual aspects like praying, fasting, being called, etc... we all know that).

3. There's nothing wrong with wanting to invite a "big" preacher to your church.  In fact, it could be a very beneficial means of evangelism and church growth.  Big preachers attract people that "no name" preachers don't. Like it? Maybe not, but it's the truth anyhow. If having Bishop Somebody at your church turns the whole town out, that gives you the opportunity to minister to folks you may not have had the opportunity to minister to otherwise. It can also increase your intake significantly. It can also put your church's name on the "map." Still don't like it? Okay, but it's still the truth.

4. Bishop Noel Jones is one "big" preacher who does not have an honorarium. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

5. I believe that this conversation could easily be equated to the discussion of whether musicians should get paid, whether other ministry servants should get paid, etc. It really is the same thing, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it. You charge what your time/ministry is worth, and like U13 said, when the demand goes up, so does your fee. Some preachers pay a lot of money and make a lot of sacrifices to get their multiple degrees, which makes them better preachers. Some put a lot of time/money into other resources (books, conferences, research), which makes them better. Some spend a lot of time praying and preparing. It's like the musician who has to buy the keyboard, buy the study DVDs, attend the workshops, buy the mp3s, practice, practice, and practice some more... it costs money.  I believe preachers who do "live of the gospel" should be adequately compensated for their travel time, time away from their families, dry cleaning, preparation, etc. Preaching ain't easy. HOWEVER, I can't get with the ones that will only come if you pay them $5,000 or $15,000 or even $1000. I just think their expenses should be paid (hotel, flight/gas, AND meals), and anything else should be a free will offering based on what the church can afford.  

HOWEVER, it's not that simple... why? Because church people will try to get over on you. I've seen it way too many times. You tell a person, "oh, Bishop Smith doesn't charge an honorarium, but he'll gladly receive whatever offering you give." And they'll use the preacher to raise a $5000 offering (and know good and doggone well that their church has never had an offering over $500), and then they'll give him $100.  Now he just drove 4 hours to get to your church, will drive 4 hours back, sweated his clothes out, had to eat out, brought a profit to your church, and you give him $100?  He proved his worth when he raised a $5000 offering, but you gave him a check worth $100?

THIS is why the preachers started doing these mandatory honoraria.  For the record, I don't believe in mandatory honoraria for preachers. But I sure can understand why they do it.

What is common today is that many preachers will raise their own speakers' offering, which is theirs to keep. Or, they may do a 50/50 split with the host church.  That comes with problems too, because some churches will try to be slick about the amount raised so they don't have to pay out as much. I remember at a former church we had a guest speaker, and when our finance people went into the office to count, the guest church sent two of their people back there with our people.  One of the ushers came and got me to go get things settled (because we had rules about not allowing anyone in the office during counting). Their guy told me that their policy was that they always accompany counters, and that he thought their administrator would've cleared that with me in advance. Their administrator later told me that her pastor had been shafted too many times when the host church gives less than the 50% they agreed to give. Doggone shame.

I could tell story after story of preachers who really shock me with their honoraria and negotiating practices and riders (yes, preachers have riders). I know of one big-name preacher who told a pastor she required $5000. He said, "that's way over our budget; can we do $4000?" She said no. I know of another who has a member who works for Marriott and gets a discount. The church always puts guests at the Marriott. This big-namer insisted on staying at another hotel instead, even though it ended up costing them $150/night more. Then there was the big-name Bishop who insisted on travel accommodations for his wife and adjutant (and his wife didn't even come to 2 of the 3 services). I could go on and on... these folks are a trip.

BOTTOM LINE: I don't think anyone should ever reject an invitation to preach because the host church does not have enough money to afford them. That is just wrong.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

churchyreal

  • Guest
Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 01:11:32 PM »
And now for the benediction...lol




Good points LaRue

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2010, 01:13:14 PM »
BOTTOM LINE: I don't think anyone should ever reject an invitation to preach because the host church does not have enough money to afford them. That is just wrong.


This is for the other LGMers that suffer from ADD.  :-\ :D


And, thanks, LaRue (concerning the avatar).
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline Fenix

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12085
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2010, 02:29:09 PM »
Thank you, "sjonathan02".

Stay blessed.

Fenix.
The car, job, house wife/husband are not the reward, God is.

Offline baptistchurchman

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2010, 02:55:16 PM »
LaRue 1212 you brought out some really good points....I guess I am just tired of the ones I see that refuse and reject engagements because the church can't "afford" them. If God called me to preach then I should preach in season and out of season, when they can pay me and when they can't pay me. Who are we to give back assignments?
MY BANK ACCOUNT AIN'T EMPTY, IT'S JUST MAKING ROOM FOR MY BLESSING!

Offline pastor rob

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Gender: Male
  • God is still good!

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2010, 07:40:05 PM »
even thought i'm not a "big name preacher", i have been on the shafted end when it came to offering. this hasn't stopped me from returning to those places to preach. i know factually that they could have given me an offering. but, nonetheless, i was called to do this job.

if God allows me to become well know, i can never see myself setting a price before i come. i agree w/larue. i know why people do it, just don't see it being apart of my future.
In Him,

Pastor Rob

Offline musicbishop

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
  • Gender: Male
  • Me and the spoiled one

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2010, 08:58:29 AM »
Great points made Larue.

I'm also a minister, and I definitely couldn't see myself turning down an opportunity just because of money issues. If you happen to get over on me that's your problem not mine, you reap what you sow. To me the opportunity is greater than the pay. The opportunity can open many doors in many ways (salvation, deliverance,more opportunities,and many other things that God can provide for the preacher and the attendees).

I look at it like this every little bit helps. Hopefully the word God gave me to give you will help, and whatever God lays on your heart to give me will help.

My father who is my Pastor Taught me one thing when I first started preaching that I'll always take to heart. He told me son don't get in this thing for the money because a lot of times it will be very low and tonight (my initial sermon) maybe the highest offering you ever get. Believe it or not he was pretty close in this assumption, I've been preaching for six years now and only once or twice has the offering been beyond that night.

People are going to give what they want to give regardless, but it's what God gives you that matters the most. ;D ;D ;D
The Chapters before life really begins don't matter, but, the ones after can never be erased

Offline jjblack

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • I see you!

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2010, 09:13:29 AM »
Paul who also supported himself as a tent maker said:

I Cor 9:6-11

 6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
 7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
 8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
 11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

The problem is some have let greed enter in.  They have seen another minister with a bigger car or heard that another made more money than them at the last engagement.  Some have placed the value of their ministry on how much they charge for it.
WW91IGtub3cgdGhlIHNwZWVkIG9mIGxpZ2h0LCB zbyB3aGF0J3MgdGhlIHNwZWVkIG9mIGRhcms/

Offline baptistchurchman

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Gender: Male

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2010, 06:15:10 PM »
Paul who also supported himself as a tent maker said:

I Cor 9:6-11

 6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
 7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
 8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
 11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

The problem is some have let greed enter in.  They have seen another minister with a bigger car or heard that another made more money than them at the last engagement.  Some have placed the value of their ministry on how much they charge for it.


You are so right....some have failed to realize that the biggest reward for doing God's work will not be found in an envelope.
MY BANK ACCOUNT AIN'T EMPTY, IT'S JUST MAKING ROOM FOR MY BLESSING!

churchyreal

  • Guest
Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2010, 06:27:26 PM »
To me  ;)

Charging an honorarium turns the ministry from being about the people to being self-focused. Ministry should never be about self. Ministry is about serving. Yes preachers should be paid but when you got to charge you have thrown the purpose of ministry to the toilet.

Offline LaylaMonroe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36422
  • Gender: Female
  • POW!
    • Order in the Church!

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2010, 06:30:52 PM »
To me  ;)

Charging an honorarium turns the ministry from being about the people to being self-focused. Ministry should never be about self. Ministry is about serving. Yes preachers should be paid but when you got to charge you have thrown the purpose of ministry to the toilet.

How so?

How is that different from requesting a particular beverage? That's self-focused, too, but it enables you to do effective ministry. Please explain how charging an honorarium is "self-focused" or throws the purpose of ministry to the toilet. If a preacher charges $2, is that still self-focused? $200? $2000? $20,000?
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

Re: Preaching Engagement Honorariums
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2010, 06:36:16 PM »
How so?

How is that different from requesting a particular beverage? That's self-focused, too, but it enables you to do effective ministry. Please explain how charging an honorarium is "self-focused" or throws the purpose of ministry to the toilet. If a preacher charges $2, is that still self-focused? $200? $2000? $20,000?



Your shoulder must be in pain.  :-\ :D



I believe what folks are saying is a honorarium shouldn't be charged. Take up a collection for the guest preacher? Sure. Absolutely.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up