Preaching Engagement Honorariums

[churchyreal]

Your shoulder must be in pain.  



I believe what folks are saying is a honorarium shouldn't be charged. Take up a collection for the guest preacher? Sure. Absolutely.

Exactly.

[LaylaMonroe]

Your shoulder must be in pain.  



I believe what folks are saying is a honorarium shouldn't be charged. Take up a collection for the guest preacher? Sure. Absolutely.

Not really. My statement was as broad (intentionally so) as his was. I don't think the issue is charging an honorarium, the issue is charging an exorbitant or outrageous honorarium OR being inflexible with the honorarium (i.e. refusing to minister if it is not met).

Also, I really think folks shouldn't have too much to say about the subject unless folks are preachers.

Anddddd... if anti-honorarium is the stance we're going to take, somebody is going to have to explain to me how that is any different from an organist charging $250 to fill in for a worship service.

[LaylaMonroe]

Exactly.

And again I ask:

How so?

How is that different from requesting a particular beverage? That's self-focused, too, but it enables you to do effective ministry. Please explain how charging an honorarium is "self-focused" or throws the purpose of ministry to the toilet. If a preacher charges $2, is that still self-focused? $200? $2000? $20,000?

[churchyreal]

Not really. My statement was as broad (intentionally so) as his was. I don't think the issue is charging an honorarium, the issue is charging an exorbitant or outrageous honorarium OR being inflexible with the honorarium (i.e. refusing to minister if it is not met).

Also, I really think folks shouldn't have too much to say about the subject unless folks are preachers.

Anddddd... if anti-honorarium is the stance we're going to take, somebody is going to have to explain to me how that is any different from an organist charging $250 to fill in for a worship service.

There's no difference to me. Charging for ministry is charging for ministry no matter who it is.

[LaylaMonroe]

There's no difference to me. Charging for ministry is charging for ministry no matter who it is.

Thanks for answering that question (which wasn't really directed toward you... lol). Now can you answer the other one? That WAS directed toward you.... 

[sjonathan02]

Not really. My statement was as broad (intentionally so) as his was. I don't think the issue is charging an honorarium, the issue is charging an exorbitant or outrageous honorarium OR being inflexible with the honorarium (i.e. refusing to minister if it is not met).

Also, I really think folks shouldn't have too much to say about the subject unless folks are preachers.

Anddddd... if anti-honorarium is the stance we're going to take, somebody is going to have to explain to me how that is any different from an organist charging $250 to fill in for a worship service.

I don't think one gets to be exorbitant if one never gets in the habit of asking. *kanyeshrug*

As for your second sentence, folks speak on plllllleeeeeeeeeenty of subjects without being members of said subjects.

[LaylaMonroe]

I don't think one gets to be exorbitant if one never gets in the habit of asking. *kanyeshrug*

As for your second sentence, folks speak on plllllleeeeeeeeeenty of subjects without being members of said subjects.

So are you also in the "musicians shouldn't charge" camp?

And as for that second sentence, yeah, don't I know it. LOL

[lordluvr]

I don't think one gets to be exorbitant if one never gets in the habit of asking. *kanyeshrug*

As for your second sentence, folks speak on plllllleeeeeeeeeenty of subjects without being members of said subjects.

Yeah, look at Ellen on AI.  She's no singer, but....anyway, I personally don't ask for anything when I'm asked to speak.  My tent-making takes care of me.  But, if preaching was all I did, then I would likely think differently.

[sjonathan02]

So are you also in the "musicians shouldn't charge" camp?

And as for that second sentence, yeah, don't I know it. LOL

I wouldn't say that; in fact, I never said that.

Yeah, look at Ellen on AI.  She's no singer, but....anyway, I personally don't ask for anything when I'm asked to speak.  My tent-making takes care of me.  But, if preaching/playing an instrument* was all I did, then I would likely think differently.

I think the enlarged part is the key. If this is one's SOLE livelihood, I can understand charging a fee. At the same time, most cats have a 'tent-making' gig AND this 'I don't play or preach unless they can pay me X amount of dollars' is just WACK!!

And, I know you agree with that because you said it on page one at the end of your diatribe.  


*addition mine

[LaylaMonroe]

I wouldn't say that; in fact, I never said that.


I think the enlarged part is the key. If this is one's SOLE livelihood, I can understand charging a fee. At the same time, most cats have a 'tent-making' gig AND this 'I don't play or preach unless they can pay me X amount of dollars' is just WACK!!

And, I know you agree with that because you said it on page one at the end of your diatribe.  


*addition mine

I didn't say you said that; I was asking a question. 

And yeah, I agree with LL (and you).

But on the contrary, I don't think "most cats" have a f/t job. Many pastors (too many, in fact) quit their jobs to become full-time pastors (or evangelists). In fact, I hate to say it, but many become pastors so that they CAN quit their daytime jobs. Or many lose their jobs and find a "job" in pastoring... so they start a church. 

It is what it is.

[sjonathan02]

I didn't say you said that; I was asking a question. 

And yeah, I agree with LL (and you).

But on the contrary, I don't think "most cats" have a f/t job. Many pastors (too many, in fact) quit their jobs to become full-time pastors (or evangelists). In fact, I hate to say it, but many become pastors so that they CAN quit their daytime jobs. Or many lose their jobs and find a "job" in pastoring... so they start a church. 

It is what it is.

Sadly, it is. 

[baptistchurchman]

Not really. My statement was as broad (intentionally so) as his was. I don't think the issue is charging an honorarium, the issue is charging an exorbitant or outrageous honorarium OR being inflexible with the honorarium (i.e. refusing to minister if it is not met).

Also, I really think folks shouldn't have too much to say about the subject unless folks are preachers.

Anddddd... if anti-honorarium is the stance we're going to take, somebody is going to have to explain to me how that is any different from an organist charging $250 to fill in for a worship service.

LaRue1212 were you tuning up right there? If so, somebody needs to get on an organ and find you....lol.

[LaylaMonroe]

LaRue1212 were you tuning up right there? If so, somebody needs to get on an organ and find you....lol.

According to my friends, I'm always tuning up. LOL! They tease me all the time for "tuning up" when I get excited in regular conversation, or when praying, teaching, debating... LOL. They're all liars, though! 

[jdholliday]

I didn't say you said that; I was asking a question. 

And yeah, I agree with LL (and you).

But on the contrary, I don't think "most cats" have a f/t job. Many pastors (too many, in fact) quit their jobs to become full-time pastors (or evangelists). In fact, I hate to say it, but many become pastors so that they CAN quit their daytime jobs. Or many lose their jobs and find a "job" in pastoring... so they start a church. 

It is what it is.

The question I have is if I am a Pastor who is drawing a salary from my church (don't like the term full-time) then that is my tent making so why should i charge a crazy amount to speak? In the urban church most of the parishoners are poor or middle class, why drain them when you already are doing well? I preach places regardless of the size & always will.
 

[B3Wannabe]

The question I have is if I am a Pastor who is drawing a salary from my church (don't like the term full-time) then that is my tent making so why should i charge a crazy amount to speak? In the urban church most of the parishoners are poor or middle class, why drain them when you already are doing well? I preach places regardless of the size & always will.
 

And there you have it.

[vtguy84]

LaRue....well done!

People get so mad when people request honorariums/funds for their service.  I am in a community choir that brings 40-50 people per engagement and let's be honest....we PUT IT DOWN!  Because we are new, our fee is $150 for any engagement within an hour's drive.  Church/ministry is still a business.  You want our group because 1) of our name and 2) of the level of excellence you'll get. 

There have been several churches that have gotten upset for us charging a fee, however the main reason you want us is to fatten your attendance (and hopefully your offering).  The only time we look at not charging the fee (which is very reasonable for what you're getting) is if we are attending a church of a choir member.

If your job told you that your pay rate will be based on the percentage of profit made during the pay period.......

[teitei636]

wow...great discussion..nothing "profound to add" just wanted to respond, lol

[LaylaMonroe]

Well since VTG moved us on over to another subject... lol...

I've always been a little shaky about community choirs who charge... but I got a different viewpoint during the brief period that I was doing some business management for a local choir. I don't know about other cities, but in Atlanta, most musicians don't move without being paid. This means that if the choir is singing without being paid, the director has to pay the musicians out of his pocket (unless the choir has a treasury, which most of them don't... but either way, the choir is paying the musicians). That's kinda unfair.

And you hit on a key point, VTG... a LOT of churches invite speakers AND choirs to fill up the pews (and hopefully the offering basket). Why should your church get fat (transl: a financial blessing) off my talent/skill/anointing/gift and I don't get fat (a financial blessing) in return? Occasionally, that might be okay, but not as the norm.

[B3Wannabe]

LaRue....well done!

People get so mad when people request honorariums/funds for their service.  I am in a community choir that brings 40-50 people per engagement and let's be honest....we PUT IT DOWN!  Because we are new, our fee is $150 for any engagement within an hour's drive.  Church/ministry is still a business.  You want our group because 1) of our name and 2) of the level of excellence you'll get. 

There have been several churches that have gotten upset for us charging a fee, however the main reason you want us is to fatten your attendance (and hopefully your offering).  The only time we look at not charging the fee (which is very reasonable for what you're getting) is if we are attending a church of a choir member.

If your job told you that your pay rate will be based on the percentage of profit made during the pay period.......

For some reason, this reminds me of Robocop.

And you hit on a key point, VTG... a LOT of churches invite speakers AND choirs to fill up the pews (and hopefully the offering basket). Why should your church get fat (transl: a financial blessing) off my talent/skill/anointing/gift and I don't get fat (a financial blessing) in return? Occasionally, that might be okay, but not as the norm.

....And that takes us full circle.

Do preachers or rather should preachers reach a certain status in their ministry where they have the right to say what you must pay them in order to come and preach?

I think if you're asking someone to come to (basically) get a bigger offering, then you need to pay them.

Now, if the money will be donated to some cause, then they may be willing to do it for free. But as we found out from our other thread, many churches do little in their community. So.....

It's a sad state we're in.....but....

[SisterT]

I agree, but I guess I wonder..what makes a preacher a big name? I look at all of us as the same. 

LaRue, I loved your answer to this statement.

BaptChurchman - Since we are all the same, I'll come and preach at your church if the "named" person doesn't. I got the same Jesus, and the same Bible. (SMILE). I don't charge either. Just give me some gas money, feed me, and if needed put me in a hotel overnight. It's between you and God whether you'd like to bless me any further. {SMILE}

Now, I CAN PREACH....but......
I don't have a "big name" so I might not draw a big crowd. But is it a crowd you want or a Word? Let's keep it real----most folk desire both!

No, preachers are not all the same....we have the same God, but some have a greater anointing than others. If I was a "name", I don't know what I'd do as far as "honorariums". I haven't been in that place. But being at a big name church and working with big name preachers and singers I do see the other side. The fee covers a lot of expenses that we really don't know about. Bringing people with them (assistants, security), product shipping, etc. But the real truth is this---we wouldn't consider them if they weren't a name.


I do agree that some of the fees are outrageous. Some are reasonable. I still respect the gift that God has placed in each. And here's another truth.....the reason why some charge high fees is because people are willing to pay for it. We don't mind paying a registration fee of 50 bucks to hear TD Jakes at a conference....but let Sister T preach at a conference for a registration fee of 25 bucks-----you'd be asking WHO IS SISTER T?