Preaching Engagement Honorariums

[under13]

I dont see why someone has to be doing something full time  in order to be compensated. As if its not hard work and they arent taking time away from their families to minister at your church. Now Me, If I was making 6 figures on my day job, then maybe I wouldnt mind not being compensated, but that is not case for me (yet) and its not the case for most of us in ministry. Lets be honest, the pay from churches is usually not enough to sustain a family on, unless you are at a MD at a mega church or play at 3 churches every weekend. IMO It seems like everybody today wants something for nothing.

btjm ydhta (you dont have to agree)

Maybe someone can respectfully make it clear to me

[LaylaMonroe]

I dont see why someone has to be doing something full time  in order to be compensated. As if its not hard work and they arent taking time away from their families to minister at your church. Now Me, If I was making 6 figures on my day job, then maybe I wouldnt mind not being compensated, but that is not case for me (yet) and its not the case for most of us in ministry. Lets be honest, the pay from churches is usually not enough to sustain a family on, unless you are at a MD at a mega church or play at 3 churches every weekend. IMO It seems like everybody today wants something for nothing.

btjm ydhta (you dont have to agree)

Maybe someone can respectfully make it clear to me

I agree with you completely... I know I have personally made the mistake of doing a lot of stuff for free, just because I had a full-time job, so I didn't need the money.  Now that I'm in a position where I've done church consulting full-time and I'm trying to get back into doing it full-time, I can see that doing freebies is a major mistake that many of us make. Yeah, I have a full-time job, but I don't WANT to have a full-time job, I want to be in full-time ministry. And the only way I can do that is if I charge you what I would charge if I were already in F/T ministry.  My former pastor used to say act like you are where you want to be.

LaRue, I loved your answer to this statement.

BaptChurchman - Since we are all the same, I'll come and preach at your church if the "named" person doesn't. I got the same Jesus, and the same Bible. (SMILE). I don't charge either. Just give me some gas money, feed me, and if needed put me in a hotel overnight. It's between you and God whether you'd like to bless me any further. {SMILE}

Now, I CAN PREACH....but......
I don't have a "big name" so I might not draw a big crowd. But is it a crowd you want or a Word? Let's keep it real----most folk desire both!

No, preachers are not all the same....we have the same God, but some have a greater anointing than others. If I was a "name", I don't know what I'd do as far as "honorariums". I haven't been in that place. But being at a big name church and working with big name preachers and singers I do see the other side. The fee covers a lot of expenses that we really don't know about. Bringing people with them (assistants, security), product shipping, etc. But the real truth is this---we wouldn't consider them if they weren't a name.


I do agree that some of the fees are outrageous. Some are reasonable. I still respect the gift that God has placed in each. And here's another truth.....the reason why some charge high fees is because people are willing to pay for it. We don't mind paying a registration fee of 50 bucks to hear TD Jakes at a conference....but let Sister T preach at a conference for a registration fee of 25 bucks-----you'd be asking WHO IS SISTER T?

Thanks, SisterT. And I couldn't agree with you more.

And you reminded me of another point... at some point, these big name preachers become more than just a name, they become a brand. Just like you'll pay more for "Q-Tips" than you do for "cotton swabs" or more for "Vaseline" than you will for "petroleum jelly," you usually have to pay more for TD Jakes than you do for NJ Anderson or more for Iona Locke than you do for SisterT. You are paying for the brand, and everything that goes along with the brand: marketing, advertising, website, real estate, expenses, salaries, supplies, product, etc...

When you think of the name as a brand, it all starts to make sense.

[under13]

I agree with you completely... I know I have personally made the mistake of doing a lot of stuff for free, just because I had a full-time job, so I didn't need the money.  Now that I'm in a position where I've done church consulting full-time and I'm trying to get back into doing it full-time, I can see that doing freebies is a major mistake that many of us make. Yeah, I have a full-time job, but I don't WANT to have a full-time job, I want to be in full-time ministry. And the only way I can do that is if I charge you what I would charge if I were already in F/T ministry.  My former pastor used to say act like you are where you want to be.

Yeah, I've heard people in other arenas say the same thing. Once you start doing stuff for cheap or free, you are gonna be known as the cheap or free <insert your business here>, and you dont want that, because it will be hard to shake that reputation. Thats why my rates are going up effective immediately . Yeah you may lose some business, but thats probably the kinda business you dont want.

[LaylaMonroe]

So I just got this via e-mail from someone to whom I extended an invitation on behalf of my church...

FLIGHT PARTICULARS:
It is our request that the host ministry assume the cost of 2 airline tickets. When booking the flight, XXXX prefers flying US Air, American, or Delta Airlines.  If at all possible, try to reserve an aisle or window seat near the front of the plane. Prior to booking the flight, please contact the Administrator to discuss details as she may not be flying from her local area, may decide on other travel arrangements and may not require 2 tickets.

HOTEL PARTICULARS:
It is our request that the host ministry assume the cost of 2 hotel rooms.  When booking the hotel, please reserve a King, Non-Smoking Room for XXXX.

HONORARIUM:
An honorarium of $2,000 would be appreciated.  However, it is XXXX’s desire to serve the people of God with excellence and never to “rape or rob” any ministry and leave them under financial strain. If this honorarium can not be met, please inform her Administrator prior to XXXX’s arrival, in an effort to explore other options. Please make all checks payable to “XXXX”.  If forms are to be completed for tax purposes, please forward them via email, so they can be returned in a timely manner.

That was an excerpt from the correspondence.

It's a little more than I would want to pay this particular person, but we'll see... I do appreciate the fact that it's not a "if you can't pay it, I can't come" situation. I always prefer preachers who offer other alternatives.

[nessalynn77]

Mom, I'd pay 25.00 for your conference... Does that come WITH the program?  I just need to know up front, lol.

[B3Wannabe]

Mom, I'd pay 25.00 for your conference... Does that come WITH the program?  I just need to know up front, lol.

LOL

That's funny how that works out! The conference is free, but the programs are $30!

Our Bishop tried that with the Africans in Korea, they either didn't come...or they just didn't get the programs. We warned him.

[LaylaMonroe]

LOL

That's funny how that works out! The conference is free, but the programs are $30!

Our Bishop tried that with the Africans in Korea, they either didn't come...or they just didn't get the programs. We warned him.

We did that at my church, but the program books were only $5.

I think that's fair if the conference is free. We only had two workshops and a panel, so I couldn't see charging $30 for programs (even if big name folks came, I wouldn't have charged $30 bc I know no one would want to pay it).

I also agree with charging registration fees. People who don't work behind the scenes don't realize it, but ministry costs. It costs money to print the programs, pay the speakers, run the electricity, etc... I ain't paying $30 for a program, but I'd pay $30 for a registration fee, if I thought I could benefit from it. I'd definitely pay $5 or $10 just to support. $20 if I could afford it.

$30 is just pushing it, buddy. 

[SisterT]

Mom, I'd pay 25.00 for your conference... Does that come WITH the program?  I just need to know up front, lol.

Well, I got one at my conference. LOL!!! What if I told you we weren't issuing programs. Would tha be a deal breaker? LOL!!

[LaylaMonroe]

I had to bring this up, because I'm kinda perplexed/annoyed...

A pastor-friend of mine asked me if I know anyone in "John Doe's" choir. I told him that I know John Doe and a bunch of people in his choir. I coordinated an event or two for them a few years ago. He's a local celebrity, but certainly not someone most of you would know. The pastor-friend wants to bring John Doe and the Doettes to his church. He also wants John to preach.

Anyway, a few months back, my pastor wanted to bring John Doe's choir down to Selma and I called John. He told me that our mutual friend, "Dean" is handling his management now, told me the date was good and asked me to call Dean and work out the details. I had no problem with that. Yesterday, I called John and told him about the pastor-friend that wanted him. I told him that I would give Dean a call to work it all out, but I wanted to call him personally because I didn't know he accepted preaching engagements. He's an EXCELLENT exhorter and singer and director, but I'd never heard him preach, nor have I heard of him preaching.

Anyway, when I called Dean, I asked him for two separate quotes, one for preaching and one for the choir. The honorarium for the preaching engagement was $650.00. I was truly caught off guard by that. I'm kinda offended. And I'm not sure how/whether to say something. On the one hand, I agree with those who say that if you don't like the honorarium, just get someone else. But on the other hand, I think that I need to tell him how exorbitant and unreasonable that is. Especially for him. He's a kid. Not even 30 yet. I'm not even sure he has a license, to tell you the truth. 

[under13]

How much should his price be?

[LaylaMonroe]

How much should his price be?

To preach? Personally, I don't think he should have a price. He should accept a freewill offering. That is my stance in any preaching situation, HOWEVER, in this case, he's already going to be there for the choir, so it's not like he's making a special trip to preach. His lodging and transportation will be paid for. Plus, he's receiving a handsome honorarium for ministering with his choir. PLUS, he's just a minister (no offense to the ministers); not an elder, pastor, bishop, overseer, or apostle. Plus, I really don't know if he even has preaching experience. People see him exhorting on YouTube and think he can preach. I've known him for 10 years and I've yet to hear him take a text and present a real sermon. He hasn't arrived to the place where he can reasonably charge $650. Heck, Bishop Noel Jones doesn't charge $650, why would this dude? It's taking advantage, that's what it is.

[sjonathan02]

If you're cool wit' dude (meaning, you're homies-from-back-in-the-day, know-each-other's-kids, type cool) then speak to him about it AFTER you have decided NOT to use him.


If not, just don't use him as a preacher and find someone else. *kanyeshrug*

[LaylaMonroe]

If you're cool wit' dude (meaning, you're homies-from-back-in-the-day, know-each-other's-kids, type cool) then speak to him about it AFTER you have decided NOT to use him.


If not, just don't use him as a preacher and find someone else. *kanyeshrug*

Yeah, that's pretty much my plan. I'm going to speak to both of them because I'm cool with them both. The thing is, I understand him not "hooking me up" so to speak because it's not my thing, it's for someone else. I'm just the middle woman. If it was for me, I know he would do otherwise because we've already been down that road. My issue is that $650 is too high regardless. And yeah, I will definitely tell them both that.

We are homies from back in the day, and although he and his wife don't have any kids yet, I coordinated his proposal and even held the ring for him all night until the big moment. 

[nessalynn77]

I would tell him, if possible, before I even relay the info to the third party.  Maybe he's never been asked for a speaking honorarium, and didn't know what to request, LOL.  He should've asked somebody, though.

I was at a friend's church last night, because they had a visitor who happens to be the brother of their MOM.  He was out here from NC for Thanksgiving, and they wanted him to speak.  I think that not having heard him before, the pastor opted for a special service on Tuesday night as opposed to Sunday Morning, lol.  This man preached!  The word was so, so, on time, revelatory, powerful... it was just wow.  The guy didn't ask for anything, as far as he was concerned, he was up here to visit his sister and nieces/nephews, and given the opportunity, he was ready to share the word.  At the end of the service, the pastor gave him a 500.00 gift.  It was so awesome.  He specifically said it was because he didn't come looking for anything and showed a genuine interest in the church being blessed and helped more than anything else.  $500 for a tuesday night, sparsely attended service?  Look at God.  If he would've asked for anything it surely would've been significantly lower than what he actually got.

[vtguy84]

I'm still laughing at John Doe and the Doettes

[blyempowered]

How so?

How is that different from requesting a particular beverage? That's self-focused, too, but it enables you to do effective ministry. Please explain how charging an honorarium is "self-focused" or throws the purpose of ministry to the toilet. If a preacher charges $2, is that still self-focused? $200? $2000? $20,000?

I'm responding to this for 2 reasons:

1. As an apology for never answering this question that LaRue asked.

2. Because I brought this up in the book club.

I originally said that I felt like charging an honorarium turns ministry to being self-focused. The reason I believe this is because when Jesus did all of the ministry work he did, it was never about Jesus making himself look like the big dog, it was about serving and giving glory to God. There are many ministers/workers who charge an honorarium that could be given to someone else with less money and do as good of a job (if not better) than the person receiving the large honorarium. I don't see anything wrong with saying (once someone asks you what you charge) "whatever you feel it was worth."

Bottomline, the focus of ministry should be Jesus glorified and the flesh suppressed. Asking for a specific amount and refusing to serve unless that amount is paid is in my mind self-focused.

[vtguy84]

No it's smart, wise, and needed!

[hypothetical]I want to put together a huge Holy convocation in August and I want to bring a huge attendance to my event.  I know I'll get IV Hilliard to come preach and Sheryl Brady as well.  Also I'll get Marvin Sapp to do praise and worship.  I won't have to do much marketing because once the word hits the streets, people will be lined up to get in. [/hypothetical]

These artists are well aware why they are being asked to come.  Not because it was "laid upon the pastor's heart".  It's to make their event a success. ($$)  They have every right to require an honorarium as most people of this caliber have contracts that state they have to have certain accommodations on top of their pay.

Little ol' me gets paid to direct choirs for their workshop so I agree that anybody giving the word should be compensated.  Sorry.

[under13]

No it's smart, wise, and needed!

[hypothetical]I want to put together a huge Holy convocation in August and I want to bring a huge attendance to my event.  I know I'll get IV Hilliard to come preach and Sheryl Brady as well.  Also I'll get Marvin Sapp to do praise and worship.  I won't have to do much marketing because once the word hits the streets, people will be lined up to get in. [/hypothetical]

These artists are well aware why they are being asked to come.  Not because it was "laid upon the pastor's heart".  It's to make their event a success. ($$)  They have every right to require an honorarium as most people of this caliber have contracts that state they have to have certain accommodations on top of their pay.

Little ol' me gets paid to direct choirs for their workshop so I agree that anybody giving the word should be compensated.  Sorry.

exactly. Everybody wants something for nothing. I'm sure that there are local preachers who will preach for free and will deliver just as well as the big names.

[LaylaMonroe]

Aside from the traditional convocations/annual conferences as done by the larger organizations (COGIC, PAW, COOLJC, Baptist Convention, Methodist Convention, UPC, UMC, etc.), I wonder what the real motive is for the other ones who do it.

I know that seems random, but VTG's post made me think about it.

I'm guessing (and ICBW) that most of them are just done to gain some name recognition (for pastor or ministry) or to earn a profit. Rarely do they think of the community and say "I want to be a blessing to the community by having a women's conference" (IMO). Most of the times, the conferences aren't even geared toward non-church folks... and it's nothing more than a bunch of services and workshops assigned a brand and marketed to a certain demographic.

And why is God all of a sudden speaking so much about conferences in the past 20-30 years? How come He wasn't telling pastors to have conferences 50 years ago?

In my work as a consultant, I've found that most conferences start with the words "I want to have a..."

[sjonathan02]

*still wonders why Churchy LOVES cans of worms*