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Author Topic: Should churches.......  (Read 10548 times)

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2010, 11:19:31 AM »
Pray and seek God and if he gives you a way to generate the funds you need to get your ministry going, then DO IT!

BAM! End thread.

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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2010, 11:22:36 AM »
I think that's a much more reasonable and appropriate approach to investing (for a church).
Is the real estate market all that different from the stock market?  The main difference I see is that the investment has dual benefit in that they are investing their money and making use of the property at the same time.  But you can still lose your shirt in real estate.  Not to mention, to get started in real estate you may need a loan if you're not at that level.  You can definitely get burned faster with a loan if income suddenly drops than you would if you were using money you had in the first place. 

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2010, 11:29:40 AM »
Is the real estate market all that different from the stock market?  The main difference I see is that the investment has dual benefit in that they are investing their money and making use of the property at the same time.  But you can still lose your shirt in real estate.  Not to mention, to get started in real estate you may need a loan if you're not at that level.  You can definitely get burned faster with a loan if income suddenly drops than you would if you were using money you had in the first place. 

FTR, I wasn't discussing the general subject of real estate investing, I was referring specifically to buying property to use for ministry (as opposed to buying rental property, which, IMO, is different). When you are buying property for the purpose of doing ministry, you are pretty much putting church money directly into ministry. That money is active and it is doing what it is intended to do: ministry. When you put money in the stock market, that money is not doing ministry while it is in the market, it is working for several years to get a return so that you can later (should the Lord spare life and delay His coming) do ministry. Money put in the stock market misses opportunities to do "right now" ministry.

That's my take.
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Offline betnich

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2010, 11:36:34 AM »
FTR, I wasn't discussing the general subject of real estate investing, I was referring specifically to buying property to use for ministry (as opposed to buying rental property, which, IMO, is different). When you are buying property for the purpose of doing ministry, you are pretty much putting church money directly into ministry. That money is active and it is doing what it is intended to do: ministry. When you put money in the stock market, that money is not doing ministry while it is in the market, it is working for several years to get a return so that you can later (should the Lord spare life and delay His coming) do ministry. Money put in the stock market misses opportunities to do "right now" ministry.

That's my take.

Very true - and that should be a factor in any ministry's financial decisions...

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2010, 11:44:29 AM »
FTR, I wasn't discussing the general subject of real estate investing, I was referring specifically to buying property to use for ministry (as opposed to buying rental property, which, IMO, is different). When you are buying property for the purpose of doing ministry, you are pretty much putting church money directly into ministry. That money is active and it is doing what it is intended to do: ministry. When you put money in the stock market, that money is not doing ministry while it is in the market, it is working for several years to get a return so that you can later (should the Lord spare life and delay His coming) do ministry. Money put in the stock market misses opportunities to do "right now" ministry.

That's my take.
Is that always bad, though?  I mean, if I can feed 500 people a month and I want to expand that in the future so I opt to budget it so that I feed 400 people and with the money that can feed 100 people, I invest it and look to a long term goal of feeding more than triple that amount of people and starting a shelter.  Is that not a worthy end to strive toward?  

I don't think we can do ministry in the mindset that we should put everything into right now because we may not be here tomorrow.  We should always be looking forward and planning.  Joseph had revelation of coming struggle and was able to save his family and tons of other people by seeing what was ahead and planning now for later.  We are blessed that God also gives us revelation and prophetic insight, so let's use it to plan and position the kingdom to be in a place where they can help the most and gather the greatest harvest of souls.  

Take right now for instance, the gov't is on the verge of failing people like it never has in our history.  There's a good chance a lot of assistance that's always been there will no longer be available.  What if the church had established its own system to step in and provide aid on its own terms, free from gov't funds so we can declare the gospel freely while providing tangible proof that God cares and will provide in times of need?  We're never going to be able to do that if we always operate based on right now and don't take the time to invest for the future.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2010, 11:53:26 AM »
Is that always bad, though?  I mean, if I can feed 500 people a month and I want to expand that in the future so I opt to budget it so that I feed 400 people and with the money that can feed 100 people, I invest it and look to a long term goal of feeding more than triple that amount of people and starting a shelter.  Is that not a worthy end to strive toward?  

I don't think we can do ministry in the mindset that we should put everything into right now because we may not be here tomorrow.  We should always be looking forward and planning.  Joseph had revelation of coming struggle and was able to save his family and tons of other people by seeing what was ahead and planning now for later.  We are blessed that God also gives us revelation and prophetic insight, so let's use it to plan and position the kingdom to be in a place where they can help the most and gather the greatest harvest of souls.  

Take right now for instance, the gov't is on the verge of failing people like it never has in our history.  There's a good chance a lot of assistance that's always been there will no longer be available.  What if the church had established its own system to step in and provide aid on its own terms, free from gov't funds so we can declare the gospel freely while providing tangible proof that God cares and will provide in times of need?  We're never going to be able to do that if we always operate based on right now and don't take the time to invest for the future.

We just gotta agree to disagree. I don't like the idea of 100 people remaining hungry because a church chose to put that money elsewhere (stock market) so that in 5-10 years, they can feed even more people.

Just a difference of opinion, sis.

IRT your last paragraph, there are a lot of churches that are in positions to help, and don't invest in the stock market. St. Philips AME Church in Decatur, GA is one of them. Maybe if more churches looked at the models of successful* churches, instead of looking at the models of successful individuals and corporations, we'd have a lot more churches able to help? I don't know. The church in Acts was successful. Maybe we could use that as a model.

Lastly, if God gave any pastor/board prophetic insight and revelation, along with a directive to invest in the stock market, I would have absolutely nothing to say about that. I don't question what God tells people, because I've long learned that God's ways aren't ours and what we think makes perfect sense, really may not be as sensible as we think, in God's eyes. If He says stock market, then stock market it is.



*by "successful" I mean successful in doing ministry and serving their community
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2010, 11:56:34 AM »
I just want to add/clarify:

I don't have an answer to this subject; I only have an opinion.
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Offline Arkhams Finest

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2010, 12:09:26 PM »
Investing in the Stock Market is not a sin.

Deciding not to invest in the Market and using those same funds in outreaches is not a sin.

As LaRue just said, this is all opinion.
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Offline Hasmonean1

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2010, 12:20:10 PM »
If the church buys up some land they could always use that land for the work of the ministry even if the property value goes down and selling would mean a loss of money.  At that point, the land would not be profitable financially but still profitable (spiritually) for the works sake.  

If the money invested is equal or pound for pound between land and the stock market, it seems the worst case scenario with investing in the stock market could have ramifications that are far worse than that of investing in real estate.  I could be wrong but it seems that way to me.

Offline SirTJ

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2010, 12:22:06 PM »
Investing in the Stock Market is not a sin.

Deciding not to invest in the Market and using those same funds in outreaches is not a sin.

As LaRue just said, this is all opinion.

In that case, let me go see how much some stock in Apple is running these days.  ;D

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2010, 01:02:50 PM »
In that case, let me go see how much some stock in Apple is running these days.  ;D
***Tizzy Teej ministries is a division of Apple/MAC outreach incorporated.***


LOL!

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2010, 01:03:53 PM »
They'll probably pay you bonuses for each mention of an apple product in your sermon, LOL!

Offline BigFoot_BigThumb

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2010, 01:57:31 PM »



Somebody just needs to come up with scripture examples of the church ministry investing in the stock market(world system).  :) Personally I think churches need to get back to the basics of it's mission. We have done many things that seem good at the time. Churches have raised separate money to build family life centers, social halls, etc but when these don't bring income we take it's from the tithes and offering and put a strain on the ministry. It's kinda crazy when you think of all the gyms, social halls, etc our tax dollars have paid for. Usually it ends with people giving sacrificial offerings and special gifts. Sometimes I wonder if God is pleased with all this. It's like the spouse who goes and gets in debt and expects the other to bail them out. That's an unnecessary burden.

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Offline Arkhams Finest

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2010, 02:09:17 PM »
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

For some reason this had me ROFL.   :D :D :D
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Offline phbrown

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2010, 02:19:45 PM »
Wow this was interesting

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #75 on: August 06, 2010, 02:21:45 PM »
So what point is being missed?


Those who believe that investing is tantamout to gambling are (IMO) missing the point of investing.  To merely dismiss it as a game of chance is being a bit short-sighted (again, IMO).  Having said that, there still may be other valid reasons why an individual or church may decide that the stock market is not the best option.

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Offline chevonee

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2010, 02:38:17 PM »
Wow this was interesting
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #77 on: August 06, 2010, 02:45:57 PM »
Those who believe that investing is tantamout to gambling are (IMO) missing the point of investing.  To merely dismiss it as a game of chance is being a bit short-sighted (again, IMO).  Having said that, there still may be other valid reasons why an individual or church may decide that the stock market is not the best option.



Okay. I think you said "the naysayers" at first, which implied that everyone who disagreed with churches investing in the stock market were missing a point. You didn't specify that you were only talking to the two people who said that investing in the stock market is the same as gambling.

For the record, investing IS gambling. That doesn't make it bad or sinful. It just fits the definition of gambling. *shrug*

Leaving the house is gambling. *shrug*
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2010, 03:07:03 PM »
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Should churches.......
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2010, 03:24:26 PM »
Okay. I think you said "the naysayers" at first, which implied that everyone who disagreed with churches investing in the stock market were missing a point. You didn't specify that you were only talking to the two people who said that investing in the stock market is the same as gambling.

For the record, investing IS gambling. That doesn't make it bad or sinful. It just fits the definition of gambling. *shrug*

Leaving the house is gambling. *shrug*
I suppose, in the very broad definition of gambling everything would find a place.
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