Keyboard vs. Bass

[anthony35]

Why is it at some churches, the keyboardist tends to play all the basslines, knowing that there's are already a bass player there?  I get so angry sometimes that the keyboardist or pianist takes my lines and runs away with it!  When I try to play my part, it very cluttered and muddy.  How can I let them know gently, what part they should play?  I don't want to over-step my bounds.  I just want to glorify God and be heard, not be pushed away.

[DWBass]

Because most came up playing alone and they don't understand the concept of when playing in a band, left hand bass is no longer needed! Many just can't grasp that concept! I'm struggling with the keyboardist in my band over the same thing! I've mentioned it many times but it's not sinking in! The biggest annoyance is he plays a lot of wrong bass notes which further annoys me! At some point, he's probably going to get tired of me complaining and quit!

[under13]

Because most came up playing alone and they don't understand the concept of playing in a band,

What he said. But I guess its kinda like when bass players try to back up the preacher during the sermon when there's already an organist playing. 

[rEaLiTy|cHecK]

What he said. But I guess its kinda like when bass players try to back up the preacher during the sermon when there's already an organist playing. 

haha yeah i actually hate that. i REALLY hate it lolol.

[fmason3]

Hey, I'm a keyboardist that came up playing alone playing left hand basslines.  I had a bass player at one gig back in high school, but I don't remember what I was doing with my left hand at a all.  But afterwards, I learned what to with my left hand from playing the organ. 

A remedy suggestion:

Does your band have an MD?  Regardless, at one rehearsal you all should map out how a song is going to go.  Explain that everyone has a lane and explain what everyone's lane is and that they should STAY IN IT.  There are plenty of clips on youtube for your keyboardist to look at to learn left-hand techniques.

[Bullitt]

I've run into this issue alot in the past and usually deal with it by politely asking the keyboard player why they're playing the bass part.  In my experience, they usually don't know any better bc they've grown acustomed to playing without a bass player.

How To Deal With It
1) I play keys a little and in most cases can show them how to voice their chords so that we aren't stepping on each others toes. If your keyboard player knows theory, ask them to play the 5 and 1 of the chord (in that order) with their left hand. It should be played 1 octave above whatever your bass note is. They can also play the 3 and 7 or really almost any other notes in the chord so long as they aren't intruding on the low end. This isn't a "perfect" solution but it works in some situations.

2) Some keyboard players don't know how to chord with their left hand yet and will be lost without playing a "bass note" in their left hand.  If that's the case, have them play the "bass note" 1 octave above the note you are playing. The overall chord you build together won't sound as full but it also won't sound as muddy.

3) Ask them to give their left hand a day off and only play with their right hand! IME, the reason that most keyboard players do this is because they aren't listening to the overall sound of the band.  If you can, try recording just the two of you playing together while
         a) you play bass note + keyboard player plays bass note & chord.
         b) you play bass note + keyboard player plays LH 5 & 1 (or other notes in chord) & RH chord.
         c) you play bass note + keyboard player plays RH chord only.

I've done this with a friend who plays keys and the difference in tonal quality suprised him! He doesn't always have a bass player and will often forget whenever we get together to play...when it happens, I just make a little motion with my hand for him to take his left hand an octave up lol. Keep in mind that these aren't perfect solutions and some people will respond to it better than others.

Remember, you're not "telling them what to do or how to play"....just offering an alternative so that the entire band can sound better. Some folks will get it, others will require prayer, patience, and perseverence!


Be Blessed,
J

[ssab]

Sounds like good advice Bullitt, i'll give that a try next time.

[phbrown]

transpose their stuff an octave higher? (not sure if that is possible)

Cut the wires to the bass notes

Go to the mixer board and cut the volume for the lower notes

Place a piece of wood over the lower third of the keyboard

place honey on the keys



oh by the way I'm just kidding. Don't do any of the things above

[floaded27]

its even worse for me, because i dont even think my organist listens to anything thats going on. once he knows what song is being sang and the key its in, he just goes to town. dont listen for any breaks, changes or nothin.

So of course he's on the bass with his left hand. seemingly because when he plays by himself he plays bass lines (and not very good ones) to make it sound like he's actually playing something. im actually staring at him during songs like "dude will u play a chord already!" so forget not knowing what to do with his left hand when im on bass, he hardly knows what to do with his right hand either.

He seems to have no sense of the full spectrum of notes. I think if you dusted the highest octave and a half of keys on the organ for fingerprints you wont find any of his. so everything muddy. even when im playing keys he wont shift up a range so he doesnt clash and we'd sound fuller. its like he doesnt even hear it.

WHATS WORSE!!!!!!!! Not only does he play the few chords on the lower end and plays bass notes with his left hand, he DOES NOT turn off the foot pedals so as he's tapping his foot while playing you just hear one single bass note over and over again on every beat. and seemingly its always a note thats NOT in the key we're playing in. im like "You dont hear that? Seriously? That sure as heck AINT me!!!" The drummer has to tell him to turn the foot pedals off, and thats after like 5 minutes of trying to get his attention because he never looks up.

[ssab]

Wow that is some organist you got there Floaded27 

[dhagler]

Today, in the middle of playing a shout run, my keyboardist got up from the keyboard and started dancing.

I held it down until she sat down again.

[jlc4703]

I play both bass and keys - as mentioned, the majority of keyboard players learn to play by themselves - and piano is one instrument where it is possible to play all the parts.

Playing in ANY ensemble properly requires a different mind-set. Some do it because they don't know any better, others know better, but either go back to habit or actively are determined to be the "star."

Our primary keyboardist in church is the pastor's wife, who is a much better player than myself.  At one time, she was totally by herself.  Drums were added next, and then my bass.  It took talking with her and explaining - she sets the tone on her amp now so that the bass notes are deemphasized.  Also, as the band has expanded to a couple of guitars, trumpet, and occasionally other instruments; she has learned to comp chords and play as an ensemble player.  OTOH, we have another keys player, who is an excellent player, except that the individual seems to be absolutely determined to fill every single space with notes (like a "shredder" on a guitar).

God is a God of ORDER - and order in His house should include a sensitivity to the fact that our praise is to Glority Him, not to get an ego trip ourselves.  A good general rule in any ensemble is to divide the amount of playing each person does by the number of players.  Even laying out for a few bars, or a whole chorus.  "Trading" also really sounds good - where one chorus has the bass from the bass player, then it switches to the pianist, then to the organist.  But all these things require spiritual maturity.

Ultimately, you can talk with others, some will respond, others will not respond.  Amd you can talk with God in prayer, and His Spirit can convince many that you will not reach.

[ssabass]

Try playing around the keyboard bass lines. Sounds like he is just use to playing that way, so work around him. There is so much you can do as a bass player, that could probably compliment what he is doing. I've heard plenty of songs where they keyboard bass is playing & the bass player is still doing his thing.

[Mark_Bass]

Try playing around the keyboard bass lines. Sounds like he is just use to playing that way, so work around him. There is so much you can do as a bass player, that could probably compliment what he is doing. I've heard plenty of songs where they keyboard bass is playing & the bass player is still doing his thing.

I completely agree. I have a keyboardist at my church that continues to play my bass line on every song. Not only does she play the line she embellishes it! So what do I do...improv, and fills. Since I started playing at the Church I have learned how to solo so nicely and Have implemented all of the mode scales that I have learned while in school. There is a silver-lining to every situation I guess.