Healthcare Unconstitutional??

[Docdb04]

^^^^

I can cosign on that.  I'm going through that right now.  It is ridiculous, you can have a degree(s) and get pushed over for the person that doesn't have a degree.  I often wonder are they hiring based on credentials or they want the department to look (visually) a certain way.     

[blyempowered]

^^^^ this

[under13]

People who are too fat, too skinny (usually from chronic illness), handicapped, not the right race, gender or social group, too young or too old or just too ugly (in the hirers' eyes). Not just from prejudice but real or perceived uninsureability. Happens all the time.


...I know a blind man who was unemployed for almost 2 years before finally finding work...

True about the health part. but I dont see what gender, social groups and ugliness has to do with insurability.

[under13]

^^^^

I can cosign on that.  I'm going through that right now.  It is ridiculous, you can have a degree(s) and get pushed over for the person that doesn't have a degree.  I often wonder are they hiring based on credentials or they want the department to look (visually) a certain way.     

What degrees do you have and what type of job are you looking for?

[sjonathan02]

What degrees do you have and what type of job are you looking for?

Why does that matter or have to do with the topic at hand?

[kodacolor]

True about the health part. but I dont see what gender, social groups and ugliness has to do with insurability.

Nothing.  Some would argue that it could effect the overall moral of the work place.  I think it's a shotty excuse and wouldn't hold up in court, but I'm sure people would try to make that case.

[funkStrat_97]

True about the health part. but I dont see what gender, social groups and ugliness has to do with insurability.

Well....it's a very messy thing.  Some ethnic groups (sigh - and it's almost always us  ) tend to be prone to certain medical conditions at a higher rate than others - at least, that's what the statics say.  But other than health insurance issues, some corporate cultures are just discriminatory by nature.  If you don't look like you fit in with the company's image, you are less likely to get a job than a more attractive person who is as qualified or even slightly less than you depending on what the job is.  Studies also show things like taller men earn more money (and get more dates) than their shorter counterparts.  Weather it's factual or not, image really is everything.......at first.  So while there are laws that prohibit discrimination, it is still done in practice on a much less obvious level.

[under13]

Why does that matter or have to do with the topic at hand?

He changed the topic, I was interested in what his situation was.

Well....it's a very messy thing.  Some ethnic groups (sigh - and it's almost always us  ) tend to be prone to certain medical conditions at a higher rate than others - at least, that's what the statics say.  But other than health insurance issues, some corporate cultures are just discriminatory by nature.  If you don't look like you fit in with the company's image, you are less likely to get a job than a more attractive person who is as qualified or even slightly less than you depending on what the job is.  Studies also show things like taller men earn more money (and get more dates) than their shorter counterparts.  Weather it's factual or not, image really is everything.......at first.  So while there are laws that prohibit discrimination, it is still done in practice on a much less obvious level.

It may sound wrong, but in some cases I dont see a problem with employers discriminating against certain people because of the way the look, especially when it comes to areas like sales.  Example, If I'm managing a gym/fitness center, I'm not going to hire someone who is 350 lbs and out of shape as a trainer. Why? because not many people are going to want to train with that trainer because of the way he/she looks and that trainer will be less likely to bring in new customers

[blyempowered]

Yes! Image is everything in this society.

[LaylaMonroe]

Why does that matter or have to do with the topic at hand?

(Even though U13 already answered) I can see how it's a relevant question. A lot of times, people tend to think that they are having a hard time finding a job for one reason when really there's a different reason. (Obviously, I'm not talking about Docdb here, I'm speaking generally). I know of PLENTY of people who have degrees and experience and all that, and complain of having a hard time getting a job because they're pregnant, overweight, underweight, handicapped, etc. Then, you look at their resume and realize why... or you see their "interview suit" and you know it has nothing to do with those things....

Well....it's a very messy thing.  Some ethnic groups (sigh - and it's almost always us  ) tend to be prone to certain medical conditions at a higher rate than others - at least, that's what the statics say.  But other than health insurance issues, some corporate cultures are just discriminatory by nature.  If you don't look like you fit in with the company's image, you are less likely to get a job than a more attractive person who is as qualified or even slightly less than you depending on what the job is.  Studies also show things like taller men earn more money (and get more dates) than their shorter counterparts.  Weather it's factual or not, image really is everything.......at first.  So while there are laws that prohibit discrimination, it is still done in practice on a much less obvious level.

You're so right. I mentioned a couple of years back that I had read an article that stated that women who wear make-up are ## times more likely to be promoted than women who don't. I forget the percentage, but it was shockingly high.

[sjonathan02]

Well....it's a very messy thing.  Some ethnic groups (sigh - and it's almost always us  ) tend to be prone to certain medical conditions at a higher rate than others - at least, that's what the statics say.  But other than health insurance issues, some corporate cultures are just discriminatory by nature.  If you don't look like you fit in with the company's image, you are less likely to get a job than a more attractive person who is as qualified or even slightly less than you depending on what the job is.  Studies also show things like taller men earn more money (and get more dates) than their shorter counterparts.  Weather it's factual or not, image really is everything.......at first.  So while there are laws that prohibit discrimination, it is still done in practice on a much less obvious level.

And people want to know why our country ain't what it used to be? 

He changed the topic, I was interested in what his situation was.

It may sound wrong, but in some cases I dont see a problem with employers discriminating against certain people because of the way the look, especially when it comes to areas like sales.  Example, If I'm managing a gym/fitness center, I'm not going to hire someone who is 350 lbs and out of shape as a trainer. Why? because not many people are going to want to train with that trainer because of the way he/she looks and that trainer will be less likely to bring in new customers

Ah, gotcha.


As for your statement, I disagree with it in general principle (minus your example which makes perfect sense--in the example only).

[under13]

(Even though U13 already answered) I can see how it's a relevant question. A lot of times, people tend to think that they are having a hard time finding a job for one reason when really there's a different reason. (Obviously, I'm not talking about Docdb here, I'm speaking generally). I know of PLENTY of people who have degrees and experience and all that, and complain of having a hard time getting a job because they're pregnant, overweight, underweight, handicapped, etc. Then, you look at their resume and realize why... or you see their "interview suit" and you know it has nothing to do with those things....

Also, in 2010 having a degree does not guarantee you a job. In many fields having experience and having connections is just as important and sometimes more important than having a degree. So sometimes you may have to take internships even though you are out of school, just to get you foot in the door. You might also have to go to a temp agency.

[blyempowered]

^^^^ Yep.

[LaylaMonroe]

Also, in 2010 having a degree does not guarantee you a job. In many fields having experience and having connections is just as important and sometimes more important than having a degree. So sometimes you may have to take internships even though you are out of school, just to get you foot in the door. You might also have to go to a temp agency.

Yep. I went through that for several years with my baby sister, who thought that having a sought-after degree (Dual B.S. Int'l Business and Spanish) would guarantee her a high-paying job. She gave me such a headache because she just didn't quite get the concept of "entry level" or getting your foot in the door.

Same with a co-worker who was laid off last year after working for my company for 20 years. They were offering her a couple of other positions (which I'll admit were of the "that's a slap in the face variety") and she refused. She took the severance package and left. But she was in her 50s... Even with a degree and an impressive resume, I was really concerned about her ability to find another job in this economy and at her age. It's rough out there...

[under13]

Yep. I went through that for several years with my baby sister, who thought that having a sought-after degree (Dual B.S. Int'l Business and Spanish) would guarantee her a high-paying job. She gave me such a headache because she just didn't quite get the concept of "entry level" or getting your foot in the door.

Exactly, but thats what the schools and our parents have been teaching us from day one. Go to school, get  on the honor roll, go to college and make the deans list and get a good paying job and retire with a pension or a measly 401k. Sadly thats not how it works any more. They teach us how to be good employees, but now how to make money or how to network with people. So I cant blame people for thinking this way.

[Docdb04]

What degrees do you have and what type of job are you looking for?

I have a BS in Finance and AS in Marketing. 

Yep. I went through that for several years with my baby sister, who thought that having a sought-after degree (Dual B.S. Int'l Business and Spanish) would guarantee her a high-paying job. She gave me such a headache because she just didn't quite get the concept of "entry level" or getting your foot in the door.

Same with a co-worker who was laid off last year after working for my company for 20 years. They were offering her a couple of other positions (which I'll admit were of the "that's a slap in the face variety") and she refused. She took the severance package and left. But she was in her 50s... Even with a degree and an impressive resume, I was really concerned about her ability to find another job in this economy and at her age. It's rough out there...

That's true about entry-level because you have to start somewhere.  The thing that pisses me off is that when you get in the door, they keep you at a certain level because you don't fit the image of "What they are looking for."  I just wonder if "What they are looking for" only applies to "certain" people.  It's like they will do everything to keep you at the bottom.  At the end of the day it is you against "What they look for."  We can't say, just go somewhere else and find a different job, because it is rough out there. 

Exactly, but thats what the schools and our parents have been teaching us from day one. Go to school, get  on the honor roll, go to college and make the deans list and get a good paying job and retire with a pension or a measly 401k. Sadly thats not how it works any more. They teach us how to be good employees, but now how to make money or how to network with people. So I cant blame people for thinking this way.

That is what they teach us, but this concept seems to work for other individuals.  It's hard for me to say that it is equal across the board.  I hear all of the time that some people come out of college and they go right into the field (with only education background).  Others come out of college, have to hop around to gain experience, be in pursuit of an MBA or advance degree, before they are even considered for advancement.  It isn't the same on both sides.  At least that is what it looks like most of the time.