as a gospel bassist

[sherlock10851]

Is it often true that as a gospel bass player, if you can identify the key a song is played in or the root... and stay in the major scale or sometimes minor... you can almost find your own groove as long as you get back to the root on time?  Unless secular music where there is a need to follow the exact bass notes from the original song?  I am trying to understand how guys can not know a song but be able to jump in an play it?  Thanks

[Torch7]

In my experience, of playing bass for Since 2005, I would say that is not true.
Knowing the Key Signature, and how to achieve a major or minor scale, is only a part of the battle.

As for people being able to play songs they haven't heard before, its about being familiar with common patterns,
throughout music called progressions.   The structure of a song is based in these progressions. So a person
can get away with not knowing every note played (the details, and nuances), as long as they know the structure, and
when the song moves through each phase of the progression.  Much like jazz improvisation.

I hope that helps a bit.

[browntree]

Jumping right in and playing a song you don't know (IMO) takes first off knowing the key and it helps to know the progression (major/minor).  From there, I think it takes a comfort in improvisation.  To me, playing the bass is all about emotion and feeling... so if you can make your way around your fretboard you can just let emotion take over... I wonder if this makes sense to anyone? 

[floaded27]

it all depends on the song. some songs have a definitive bassline. if it does it usually repeats and if there's no bass player usually the organist or keyboardist is holding it down until you catch on and start playing that pattern. if there is no definitive bassline, but rather structured progressions, which ALSO repeat, you can listen in and the 2nd or 3rd go, you should have it down for the most part (unless its a Richard Smallwood song, which seemingly takes forever to repeat). With the progressions, you can fill in in-between, but listening to the other musicians will be important to determine your groove and flow. You cant be in left field while the others are somewhere else.

the more experienced you get, you can find your way quicker, and can better judge what works and doesnt in the context of the song. For me, with some songs i can catch the pattern, but it takes me a good while to get the key. other times it can be harder to catch the pattern when the keyboardist/organist is super busy and throwing in extra chord changes, which differs during each go 'round.

Seemingly from what i've experienced, the gospel realm is the only one that throws u in these kinds of situations beyond rehearsals and jams/sheds.

[superjaay]

Well said floaded27. If you can keep up in church service, where any song is fair game, you can play.

[arthur59]

IMO as a GOOD gospel bass player with a well develop ear and you know your progressions, you can jump right in and create your own groove even if you don't know the song or key.

Our first job as a bassist is to groove, we will groove our way in to the right key by the second time a song repeats it's self.   

I would suggest you work on your ear by: learning to hear and play the most common progression in gospel music, learn to hear play and sing your interval shapes and learn how to stay in the pocket and groove!! you'll find SOME, good gospel bass player who over plays the groove,they come out the pocket and "get busy with it" and if your trying to learn by listing to them you can become very frustrated,I suggest listing to some good old R&B to work on your groove, stuff from earth wind and fire, James Brown stuff from Motown etc.

"STAY IN THE POCKET AND GROOVE"!!

 

[arthur59]

Victor Wooten: Bass Lesson

[Torch7]

I love and Respect Victor as a Bass Player, but his "so called" wrong note approach has not worked with the Kats, I play with... there is indeed a such thing as a wrong note.     Which I hit on the regular.

[floaded27]

I love and Respect Victor as a Bass Player, but his "so called" wrong note approach has not worked with the Kats, I play with... there is indeed a such thing as a wrong note.     Which I hit on the regular.

Torch, maybe because he dont play gospel. I've hit that WRONG note quite a few times, and folks will look at u as if u had just torn a page out the Bible.

But i also notice something, which Vic probably is oblivious to. When you're nice and everybody knows ur nice, ur mistakes get brushed under the rug like they didnt even happen. Its like when the star player has like 40 turnovers and nobody says nothin, but u miss a free throw in the 1st quarter of a preseason game and everybody act like u just blew the championship!!

[Torch7]

Torch, maybe because he dont play gospel. I've hit that WRONG note quite a few times, and folks will look at u as if u had just torn a page out the Bible.

But i also notice something, which Vic probably is oblivious to. When you're nice and everybody knows ur nice, ur mistakes get brushed under the rug like they didnt even happen. Its like when the star player has like 40 turnovers and nobody says nothin, but u miss a free throw in the 1st quarter of a preseason game and everybody act like u just blew the championship!!

LOL!  Now that's perspective.  Especially if its, your band... everybody else is wrong when you hit a stinker.. LOL!

He is not saying that there is no wrong note. Just if you hit just slid up or down a half step and you have a note which will not clash. Now you might not be hitting an exact copy of the signature lick from "a"   recorded version but the note will be "right"

I know what he meant, but unfortunately, that doesn't always work...  Trust me I have tried to pull the "Same Key Signature Card", on a few occasions, it doesn't always fly... LOL!

[floaded27]

He is not saying that there is no wrong note. Just if you hit just slid up or down a half step and you have a note which will not clash. Now you might not be hitting an exact copy of the signature lick from "a"   recorded version but the note will be "right"

taiko, the majority of the concept of a "wrong" note happens from the fact that notes clash more when both are on the bottom end than they do on the top. Play a B and a C on the bottom end. Terrible. Move either one up an octave or 2 and they clash less. You say, isnt that the basis of a Major 7th chord? Yes indeedy, so they never should clash, but they do on the low end.

With that said. if the chord was a C Maj 7, and say i hit the Bb and slid up to a B, i'd be cool IF AND ONLY IF nobody else is playing a different bass note, which Vic probably doesnt have to worry about being the bass player, but as a CHURCH (not gospel, but church) bass player, everybody and they moms jumps on the low end, so that wrong note you hit, its wrong because the keyboardist and organist (and anybody else thats near anything capable of playing low end notes) both played that C. And the more wrong notes you play, the more they jump on the bass line.

Musically, Vic is correct. But experience wise, Vic probably never has this issue that we deal with week after week.

[mjl422]

I think Vic is approaching this from a jazz perspective.  When you play Gospel or R&B, there are right and wrong notes.

It's just like when he talks about grooving while you are searching for the right key.  I just ask the keyboardist "what key are you in"....lol

[5deep]

I think Vic is approaching this from a jazz perspective.  When you play Gospel or R&B, there are right and wrong notes.

It's just like when he talks about grooving while you are searching for the right key.  I just ask the keyboardist "what key are you in"....lol

some keyborardist don't know the key themself they just play what they here. When I don't know the key the song is in I will groove with 3 or 4 notes until I find the key, it works for me.