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Author Topic: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture  (Read 9343 times)

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2012, 09:25:47 AM »
I really am. I'm so fascinated by this story. I find it so hard to believe that this could happen to a 19k member church (I previously said 10k, but in the depositions, they testified that it has 19k members).

Which, btw, leads me to another fascinating detail. They testified that there are 19k members. The sanctuary seats 10k, and numbers had slightly declined since the Apostle's passing. 200 went to the 8:00a service, 100 went to the 10:00a service, and 3000 went to the hotel location. Where are the other souls???

They got smart and went somewhere else.
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2012, 09:37:07 AM »
They got smart and went somewhere else.

Interesting implication.

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Offline lordluvr

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2012, 10:04:14 AM »
I really am. I'm so fascinated by this story. I find it so hard to believe that this could happen to a 19k member church (I previously said 10k, but in the depositions, they testified that it has 19k members).

Which, btw, leads me to another fascinating detail. They testified that there are 19k members. The sanctuary seats 10k, and numbers had slightly declined since the Apostle's passing. 200 went to the 8:00a service, 100 went to the 10:00a service, and 3000 went to the hotel location. Where are the other souls???
I remember years ago, my former pastor used to boast having over 200 members on our roster, but most Sundays, we'd have no more than 40 people in attendance, including guests and kids.  The reality was that some people joined as a matter of formality, but were never really "members", meaning they never really participated or became a part of the church culture.  Even though they hadn't attended for years, their names were never taken off of the church roster.  Perhaps Jericho is like that.  19,000 is the official church roster, but 7-10k may be the actual average attendance.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2012, 10:13:47 AM »
I remember years ago, my former pastor used to boast having over 200 members on our roster, but most Sundays, we'd have no more than 40 people in attendance, including guests and kids.  The reality was that some people joined as a matter of formality, but were never really "members", meaning they never really participated or became a part of the church culture.  Even though they hadn't attended for years, their names were never taken off of the church roster.  Perhaps Jericho is like that.  19,000 is the official church roster, but 7-10k may be the actual average attendance.

Oh yeah, I'm sure 10k is more likely to be the Sunday attendance (or as Barna and others call it, "active membership"). I've seen videos of their services from when Apostle Betty was alive, and the sanctuary was usually full, but not overcrowded.

I'd estimate that after she left, they may have lost 10-15% (which is typical). So I'm still wondering where the other souls went. :-\
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Offline Arkhams Finest

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2012, 10:46:56 AM »
It is fascinating, though I wish we would stop doing this to ourselves. Churches these days seem to be built around the leader. It makes me wonder what would happen to a mammoth place like The Potters House if, God forbid, something happened to Bishop Jakes. As the leader goes, so do the congregants it seems.

Y'know... I wrote about that.... ;D :)

But yeah, today's churches are definitely built around the leader - especially unaffiliated, independent churches, and especially pentecostal-type churches. I think that's part of a much larger problem, and I don't even have the brain capacity right now to unpack that... but it starts with pride and the ego. It trickles into this title problem we have, and it trickles into manipulation, it certainly trickles into the pastor as the central attraction of the church, and it trickles into the enterprise that the church has become.

As for Bishop Jakes, I have a hard time believing that a man as wise as he, doesn't have an effective succession plan. But hey, you never know. Pride is a beast.

Very true.

The pastor is meant to be an undershepherd.  Someone who helps us and guides us to walk in righteousness.  He delivers the Word, teaches, admonishes.

We have elevated the man of God to demigod status.  He must NEVER be questioned.  Questioning him is rebellion.  His word is law and must be obeyed at all times.  There are many, many wonderful blessings that he is authorized to pronounce on us for our unwavering loyalty. 

Did I mention obey?  ALWAYS obey.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't obey our pastor.  It's more a matter of how we see the pastor, and more importantly, how the pastor sees him/herself.

Is there any question as to why he would end up in sin?  We've enabled him.  He goes and comes unchecked, unquestioned.  There is no accountability.

How do we change this culture?  That's hard to answer...seeing as the people in authority have a vested interest in continuing this hero worship.
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Offline SirTJ

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2012, 10:50:19 AM »
And when the captain goes down, he takes the ship with him. That's something they hammer into us in my PR classes. If you build an entity around one person, you are setting yourself up for a crash and burn. Penn State and Joe Paterno = prime example.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2012, 11:03:45 AM »
^^^^^ Very good stuff, RJ.

SMH.

I don't see this culture changing in our lifetime.
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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2012, 12:23:53 PM »
^^^^^ Very good stuff, RJ.

SMH.

I don't see this culture changing in our lifetime.

Me neither...

Offline phbrown

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #88 on: April 24, 2012, 08:51:07 PM »
And when the captain goes down, he takes the ship with him. That's something they hammer into us in my PR classes. If you build an entity around one person, you are setting yourself up for a crash and burn. Penn State and Joe Paterno = prime example.

apple steve jobs?

sorry couldn't resist

oh and Layla i like the tumbling down part when discussing the name Jericho...

hmm ... does this same problem happen in churches that are not independent? Such as the catholic church? I mean there have been many popes ... so I would venture to say that the independant mega church movement is in the minority? I might need to try to count one day the number of independant mega churches with memberships about 10k.

Offline phbrown

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #89 on: April 24, 2012, 08:51:52 PM »
so many red squiggly lines in that above post

Offline SirTJ

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2012, 08:56:49 PM »

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2012, 06:21:40 AM »
so many red squiggly lines in that above post

Yet, you did nothing about it.  :-\
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Offline csedwards2

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2012, 11:22:07 AM »
Yet, you did nothing about it.  :-\
IRT your av, smart move sir ;)

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Jericho City of Praise - and the bigger picture
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2012, 11:32:29 AM »
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.
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