Playing A Traditional Song Using Bass Run 1-3-5-6-Octave

[Gemini47]

My question is on the subject of playing some traditional songs utilizing the bass run 1-3-5-6-Octave and the 1-4-5 progression. Playing What A Mighty God We Serve i use a bass run of 1-3-5-6-Octave. Can this same bass run be used to play Victory Is Mine? Are there other traditional songs that can use this same bass line and if so what are some of those songs?

[floaded27]

isnt that like EVERY traditional congregation call-and-response song?

Cant nobody do me like Jesus
Im a soldier in the army of the lord
I hear joy bells, ringing in my soul
Come on in the Lords house, Its gonna rain
whats the matter with Jesus, he's alright
Travelin shoes Lord, got on my traveling shoes
Jesus on the mainline, tell him what you want
I know the Bible is right, somebody's wrong
If you call on Jesus, he will answer prayer
Woke up this morning with my mind, stayed on Jesus

the list goes on and on. thats all i can come up with off the top of my head, as they all tend to blend into one another. you can go from one to another and create a super medley and not miss a beat.

[Gemini47]

Hey thanks Floaded27. I appreciate your response and feedback.  Knowing i can add these song to my arsenal is beneficial to me. Again thanks Sir.

[Fingers!]

isnt that like EVERY traditional congregation call-and-response song?

Cant nobody do me like Jesus
Im a soldier in the army of the lord
I hear joy bells, ringing in my soul
Come on in the Lords house, Its gonna rain
whats the matter with Jesus, he's alright
Travelin shoes Lord, got on my traveling shoes
Jesus on the mainline, tell him what you want
I know the Bible is right, somebody's wrong
If you call on Jesus, he will answer prayer
Woke up this morning with my mind, stayed on Jesus

Wow.  That's a good list.  I can think of only one off the top of my head, Chicago Mass - God is My Everything. 

The reason that that song comes to mind so quickly, the keyboardist wanted me to march thru the four-note-shout run on the whole song, you know, march to the 1, march to the 5, a shout.  Really, come on. 

And he’s been playing waaay longer than me, but that is what HE hears.  So, there you have it.  He’s playing off a shout line while I’m playing off a major pentatonic line…together…great.  I have a maverick idea.  Let’s play like the cd.

[StooB]

Can't nobody do me like Jesus

Grammar isn't big in the gospel world 

[floaded27]

Grammar isn't big in the gospel world 

Particularly traditional gospel, as they weren't really educated back then. Most people who went to school nowadays clearly know better, but more than likely you're used to it because you grew up around it. These were our (or at least my) grandparents kind of songs, so many of us are all too familiar with the style of speech. But trust me, every time i think about the words, they literally drive me crazy.

Wow.  That's a good list.  I can think of only one off the top of my head, Chicago Mass - God is My Everything. 

The reason that that song comes to mind so quickly, the keyboardist wanted me to march thru the four-note-shout run on the whole song, you know, march to the 1, march to the 5, a shout.  Really, come on. 

And he’s been playing waaay longer than me, but that is what HE hears.  So, there you have it.  He’s playing off a shout line while I’m playing off a major pentatonic line…together…great.  I have a maverick idea.  Let’s play like the cd.

The shout run bass line is the STANDARD way to play those songs. Been done that way for years on end, so thats why he HEARS that. The thing is, just about all keyboardists/organists will NOT venture away from that. For the most part, its easiest to do and manage, while playing the other chords and melodies at the same time. Since bass players arent everywhere (just about every church will have an organist/keyboardist and drummer way before they have a bass player) thats what everyone remains used to, and some bass players just fall in line with it.

Only when you have adventurous bass players, will you find a deviation from the standard.
1) Its limited to the degree of how far the organist/keyboardist is willing to venture out. If they're STUCK in that traditional way, you only have certain options before you start clashing.....HARD!!!
2) You have to somehow be lucky enough hear another bass players ideas for the song. NOBODY records those. I got lucky by the way of a guy named Fred Hammond (lol) who actually recorded a snippet of 2 of those on one of his albums, as sort of an interlude. Thats how i actually learned how to play those. Bishop GE Patterson later did a double album full of those old songs, but he did them in the most traditional way ever. I mean if you listen for too long, you will have the urge to break out in a washboard solo like that old deacon. So probably no new ideas there.

You have to sit with a keyboardist/organist and INTENTIONALLY explore and devise new creative ways to play these songs. Good luck finding one! lol

[Fingers!]

...The shout run bass line is the STANDARD way to play those songs. Been done that way for years on end, so thats why he HEARS that. The thing is, just about all keyboardists/organists will NOT venture away from that. For the most part, its easiest to do and manage, while playing the other chords and melodies at the same time. Since bass players arent everywhere (just about every church will have an organist/keyboardist and drummer way before they have a bass player) thats what everyone remains used to, and some bass players just fall in line with it.

Only when you have adventurous bass players, will you find a deviation from the standard.
1) Its limited to the degree of how far the organist/keyboardist is willing to venture out. If they're STUCK in that traditional way, you only have certain options before you start clashing.....HARD!!!
2) You have to somehow be lucky enough hear another bass players ideas for the song. NOBODY records those. I got lucky by the way of a guy named Fred Hammond (lol) who actually recorded a snippet of 2 of those on one of his albums, as sort of an interlude. Thats how i actually learned how to play those. Bishop GE Patterson later did a double album full of those old songs, but he did them in the most traditional way ever. I mean if you listen for too long, you will have the urge to break out in a washboard solo like that old deacon. So probably no new ideas there.

You have to sit with a keyboardist/organist and INTENTIONALLY explore and devise new creative ways to play these songs. Good luck finding one! lol

Yes, that is a standard pattern but all those other variations of the standard are standards, too.  You can’t, while learning a song from the cd, just drop in a standard shout pattern because you hear something similar - or change the progression of the song to fit YOUR style of playing because it’s easier for you.  You can only get so far with the cut-n-paste method.  Somewhere you have to realize that the cd is doing something similar but not quite and you need to listen closely and learn, regardless of how long you’ve been playing.   

To me, moving forward at this stage is deliberate fudging.  That’s disrespectful to the artist who made the song, to the other people who are singing and playing with you and to the congregation who’s listening; pure selfish and lazy.  I can understand it if we find ourselves in those moments where we have to play to something on the spot, sure do whatever it takes.  But when we play the songs we are supposed to be prepared to play, are you at liberty to remove one line and drop in another (or your own) on the basis that these are all standard patterns or ‘this fits’ with no warning or announcements or discussions? 

Really.  If you go and listen, just 5 seconds, of the theme of that song, Chicago Mass – God Is My Everything, you will not hear that standard basic shout march as such.  You would hear the outside notes of it, the 1 – 3 – 5 - 6.  It is as clear as day.  If you permanently change THAT, you  change the integrity of the song.   If you want to adlib, be my guest, but don’t sacrifice the progression and/or the integrity of the song.

To demand for me to play that shout move and to tell me that that IS the correct way on the cd but don’t produce the cd to prove your case, this is a quick give away that this person is not seriously going over the music that is handed to him.   I don’t expect things to be perfect, yet, I feel that if I can hear n play the basics (and I’m not that good), then you should be able to hear and play the basics as well.  If you don’t WANT to, cool.  But don’t hold me accountable for all the clashes that will come about.

[floaded27]

just listened to it. it uses the first half of the standard blues pattern. so obvious in my ear, but i did find myself looking for the other half of the blues pattern.

i get you. this is simple, and no excuse to change it. i find myself changing or substituting bass lines when what the bass player is doing is beyond my level. so i can either magically find years of skill by the time i have to do the song, or figure out other ways. although i do go back and revisit songs and learn more of what i can when i do progress.

its all a balance. try your best to progress to the next level but also recognize the level you are at.

but honestly, in this situation, he shouldnt be running bass anyway, so whatever you do thats in context with the song should never clash. darn key players and they're left hand.

[Gemini47]

i find myself changing or substituting bass lines when what the bass player is doing is beyond my level. so i can either magically find years of skill by the time i have to do the song, or figure out other ways. although i do go back and revisit songs and learn more of what i can when i do progress.

Hey thanks Floaded27 for confirming it is okay for one to substitute basslines or note combinations when one encounters a bassline that is beyond ones' level. I have been playing for a year and a half and encounter this often, basslines and runs i have no idea how to duplicate. When this happens i stick with the basics.

[floaded27]

Hey thanks Floaded27 for confirming it is okay for one to substitute basslines or note combinations when one encounters a bassline that is beyond ones' level. I have been playing for a year and a half and encounter this often, basslines and runs i have no idea how to duplicate. When this happens i stick with the basics.

the biggest goal of a musician is balance. recognize when something is beyond your level, but dont run from it. Some people run from the challenging things and stick with what they know at every opportunity, and years go by, and they're in the same place. Some try to get every advanced thing at every turn, and never develop a foundation or master basics. Years later when they need to demonstrate fundamentals, they dont know what to do.

Gemini, if you keep working at it, all that stuff will open up to you over time. But of course you have to do something in the meantime. Put this in your head: if you play a song at church or wherever, make it your business that the next time you play that song, you'll play it better.

[Gemini47]

Put this in your head: if you play a song at church or wherever, make it your business that the next time you play that song, you'll play it better.

Again think you Floaded27. I appreciate your advice and encouragement. I do make it a point to challenge myself and improve my performance of a song the next time i play it. Thanks you my brother.

[Fingers!]

just listened to it. it uses the first half of the standard blues pattern. so obvious in my ear, but i did find myself looking for the other half of the blues pattern.

i get you. this is simple, and no excuse to change it. i find myself changing or substituting bass lines when what the bass player is doing is beyond my level. so i can either magically find years of skill by the time i have to do the song, or figure out other ways. although i do go back and revisit songs and learn more of what i can when i do progress.

its all a balance. try your best to progress to the next level but also recognize the level you are at.

but honestly, in this situation, he shouldnt be running bass anyway, so whatever you do thats in context with the song should never clash. darn key players and they're left hand.

Yea.  Very frustrating!

[phbrown]

Put this in your head: if you play a song at church or wherever, make it your business that the next time you play that song, you'll play it better.

if I ever get a custom bass, I'm going to have that or a bible verse inscribed on my bass.... maybe on the neck or the body

[malthumb]

the biggest goal of a musician is balance. recognize when something is beyond your level, but dont run from it. Some people run from the challenging things and stick with what they know at every opportunity, and years go by, and they're in the same place. Some try to get every advanced thing at every turn, and never develop a foundation or master basics. Years later when they need to demonstrate fundamentals, they dont know what to do.

Gemini, if you keep working at it, all that stuff will open up to you over time. But of course you have to do something in the meantime. Put this in your head: if you play a song at church or wherever, make it your business that the next time you play that song, you'll play it better.

Wisdom on the low end.  Powerful stuff there, Floaded

[Gemini47]

Wisdom on the low end.  Powerful stuff there, Floaded

Hey Malthumb thanks for chiming in with your supporting feedback. I read what you post and i appreciate the information, patients and the knowledge you share with us. Keep sharing those instructional bass videos. 

[floaded27]

Wisdom on the low end.  Powerful stuff there, Floaded

thanks. comes from a combination of experience, good teachers, and you guys here on LGM.