Chik Filet vs Chi,Boston,San Fran + more

[Manofchrist101]

I'm sorry, I hate to get into something that has nothing to do wtih me, but I just wanted to point out the fact that just because I haven't said anything rude or hateful to a person does not mean I don't hold anything wicked in my heart.

I'm sorry, I hate to use theoretical scenarios but: If I hated the LGM smileys but never stated it outright, yet I unconsciously take every opportunity I can to avoid using them in favor of custom emoticons, I'm sure people would be able to pick up on that.

I'm not saying you do or don't harbor some kind of ungodly hatred towards honmos, just wanted to point out the Freudian-slippery flawed logic in saying "I've never said 'I hate you' to his face, so I clearly have no wicked thing within me towards that guy."

Well let me spell it out. I dont actually hate anybody. Yes i am irritated to see to gay men making out but its not because i hate the people but its because i hate the sin it represents.

But i dont harbor hatred for them atall, because i believe the words of Jesus, "Love thy neighbor as thyself"

[LaylaMonroe]

Not sure whether to or or

Why not just

That's what I do when stuff doesn't make sense LOL

[LaylaMonroe]

As I said, I wouldn't dare accuse anyone of hating anyone, but I will say this: I doubt there is a Christian on earth who will admit they 'hate' someone. Even those nutty racists will say they don't 'hate' black people, they just feel blacks are inferior or should be segregated. Most God-fearing folks don't feel hatred for anyone. But hatred isn't how you feel, it's what you do.

I think we've all met at least one Christian who is hateful, but I bet if you ask her, she'd deny it. Nobody will say "yes I'm hateful." Not even in the mirror. She'll say "yes, I may have spread a little gossip, but that doesn't mean I hate anybody." She doesn't even realize she's hateful.

[LaylaMonroe]

(And MOC, I'm not saying you're hateful. I'm sure you're probably not hateful).

[docjohn]

I think Scketch makes a great point about the heart issues,shown or not.

MoC makes an equally number of great points about militancy.

I don't think the GBLT care about LORD's love.They have purposely chosen a path 180 degress from what LORD says.At best,they want to live in a "parallel" universe,having some semblance of "normalcy"(families/kids).This is rebellion-they want it 'their way".

It used to be a mantra-"not MY fault",I was born this way.So;if GBLT were "born that way"-how does CHRISTian love (or hate) matter?Same as Aadms' "LORD-that woman YOU gave me"-they want to blame others/excuse their action.

So;they are saying-the LORD WHO created male and female(GEN),LORD WHO has a plan(JER),LORD WHO delivers(Ia).JESUS WHO makes new(REV) is at fault.As HIS followers,we get lumped into the blame by default.

So,if they have rejected the true CHRIST-where is the blame @ any believers conduct?If we are to look so much like JESUS;then what happens?
Only 2 choices:

folks get saved/delivered from that whole system of GBLT

or-when folks see CHRIST in us-they run even further the other way! CHRIST in us-our hope of glory is as the Cross; a stumbling block because of their sin.That's why the reaction to CFA's position;the GBLT know their sin has been found out/mirrored and they don't like what they see.Result?? anger

What if we had a gigantic televised GBLT event=where all the world to see.Center stage,keynote speaker walks on,about to bring the main speach;in walks JESUS thru the wall ala' upper room.HE does HIS "Thomas show" of the nail scared hands/feet,bloody hole in HIS SIDE.

What kind of reaction do you think HE would receive?(the ONLY,ONE TRUE LORD) They have made self their god.

WORD says "friend ship with world is enmity with GOD/LORD", cautions about when "men speak well of you".
I guess JESUS could get up and deny HIMSELF and say "there,there ,I was only joking when I wrote that."

I don't think that will happen-the SPOKEN/WRITTEN/INCARNATE CHRIST will never contradict HIMSELF in any way/shape/form.

[LaylaMonroe]

*sheds a single tear*

All I will say is that now, after this thread, I can understand things a lot more clearly. I see exactly where they're coming from and why they say the things they say if this is what we offer them. Very sad. Very sad. It makes me want to stop praying for the unbelievers and pray instead for the believers. We appear to be just as off as the lost.

Oh well. To each his own. Thank God for Jesus and the REAL love of Christ. And as I've said before, I'm glad I met Him before I met some people. I would never want to know Him if my only introduction was through some of His followers. Glad I met Him on my own.

[malthumb]

Doc,

A lot of good stuff there.  I'm not gonna try to quote it, but I would like to address a couple of points that IMHO define how we get to a point where a debate over a chicken company's stated (or unstated) policy has an entire nation holding its breath.

You speak of "the GBLT" as if it is one single entity.  That is no more true than anybody thinking of the black community as one single purposes entity.  There are those who do think that the black community is just monolithic and that assumption insults me.  Apply the same pov to the GBLT community and it's ok?

And when you point out that the GBLT wants every one to believe they were born that way, your evidence to the contrary is the proof of the negative.....that God cannot be at fault.  Two logical steps to that one.  One is the assumption that the gay condition is a fault for which someone must be blamed.  This is followed by the assertion that God is perfect and therefore cannot be at fault.  I believe the second step of your logic.  I think some in the GBLT community would take issue with the characterization of their lifestyle as a fault.  Counter arguments would/ could be....

• When a person is born with a mental disorder, who is at fault?
• When a person is born with a chronic and life shortening disease, who is at fault?
• When a person is born with a physical deformity, who is at fault?

In many cases, some of these conditions can be the result of conditions the mother encounters during the pregnancy, but not all.  Many are genetic, meaning no willful act of the parent(s) could have prevented it.  So....who's at fault?  The same filter should be used to assess the plight of those born with homosexual tendencies.

Some take the position that homosexuality is 100% choice.  My personal believe is that some people ARE born that way (and it's nobody's "fault" that they are).  And I also believe that through exposure to those who were born that way, others make it a conscious choice.  How would we tell the difference?  And does it really matter?

What is really interesting to me in this thread is the popular opinion that gays have an open disdain of God.  I'm referring to the often used term  "Godless" (I'm interpreting this as meaning having no believe in God.....correct me if I am wrong).  I probably know a couple dozen people who are openly gay and about the same number who I suspect may be.  I can only think of three of them that are not in somebody's house of worship every weekend.  Some are more immersed in service of the Lord than most "normal" congregationalists.  Of the three that are not, I cannot recall ever hearing a word disparaging God or the church.  More than I can say for a lot of my "normal" friends and acquaintances.

This whole issue of Christians defining who or what gay people are and what their agenda is smacks of those who really don't know laying out an opinion as fact, rather than just asking those who DO know.  Where have we seen that before?  (Hint......Republicans.......black community...)

[Manofchrist101]

*sheds a single tear*

All I will say is that now, after this thread, I can understand things a lot more clearly. I see exactly where they're coming from and why they say the things they say if this is what we offer them. Very sad. Very sad. It makes me want to stop praying for the unbelievers and pray instead for the believers. We appear to be just as off as the lost.

Oh well. To each his own. Thank God for Jesus and the REAL love of Christ. And as I've said before, I'm glad I met Him before I met some people. I would never want to know Him if my only introduction was through some of His followers. Glad I met Him on my own.

What is your exact stance on homosexuality? What are your experiences with gay people?

[LaylaMonroe]

Doc,

A lot of good stuff there.  I'm not gonna try to quote it, but I would like to address a couple of points that IMHO define how we get to a point where a debate over a chicken company's stated (or unstated) policy has an entire nation holding its breath.

You speak of "the GBLT" as if it is one single entity.  That is no more true than anybody thinking of the black community as one single purposes entity.  There are those who do think that the black community is just monolithic and that assumption insults me.  Apply the same pov to the GBLT community and it's ok?

And when you point out that the GBLT wants every one to believe they were born that way, your evidence to the contrary is the proof of the negative.....that God cannot be at fault.  Two logical steps to that one.  One is the assumption that the gay condition is a fault for which someone must be blamed.  This is followed by the assertion that God is perfect and therefore cannot be at fault.  I believe the second step of your logic.  I think some in the GBLT community would take issue with the characterization of their lifestyle as a fault.  Counter arguments would/ could be....

• When a person is born with a mental disorder, who is at fault?
• When a person is born with a chronic and life shortening disease, who is at fault?
• When a person is born with a physical deformity, who is at fault?

In many cases, some of these conditions can be the result of conditions the mother encounters during the pregnancy, but not all.  Many are genetic, meaning no willful act of the parent(s) could have prevented it.  So....who's at fault?  The same filter should be used to assess the plight of those born with homosexual tendencies.

Some take the position that homosexuality is 100% choice.  My personal believe is that some people ARE born that way (and it's nobody's "fault" that they are).  And I also believe that through exposure to those who were born that way, others make it a conscious choice.  How would we tell the difference?  And does it really matter?

What is really interesting to me in this thread is the popular opinion that gays have an open disdain of God.  I'm referring to the often used term  "Godless" (I'm interpreting this as meaning having no believe in God.....correct me if I am wrong).  I probably know a couple dozen people who are openly gay and about the same number who I suspect may be.  I can only think of three of them that are not in somebody's house of worship every weekend.  Some are more immersed in service of the Lord than most "normal" congregationalists.  Of the three that are not, I cannot recall ever hearing a word disparaging God or the church.  More than I can say for a lot of my "normal" friends and acquaintances.

This whole issue of Christians defining who or what gay people are and what their agenda is smacks of those who really don't know laying out an opinion as fact, rather than just asking those who DO know.  Where have we seen that before?  (Hint......Republicans.......black community...)

*shedding a single tear*

But this time, it's a good tear.

Thanks, Malthumb. I can always, ALWAYS count on you to articulate what I can't. I especially appreciate the parts in bold, and would add to your last paragraph that this attitude is what communicates hatred to the LGBT community.

[LaylaMonroe]

What is your exact stance on homosexuality? What are your experiences with gay people?

Why do you ask?

[Manofchrist101]

( I am not stating this as fact but only as opinion)

It seems like you focus so heavily on not offending homosexuals, that if i didn't know any better i would think that someone very close to you is gay because you seem to heavily emphasize sympathy, and in my life experiences the people who were ardent about being sympathetic fit into one of 3 categories

1) They were gay themselves or had been gay once

or

2) They had a gay relative/close friend (This was the most frequent)

or

3) They actually didnt see anything wrong with homosexuality.


I am not being accusatory but your posts do make me wonder.

[LaylaMonroe]

Frustration notwithstanding, this has been a really good thread (for me). Although I usually hate when the gay subject is raised, I feel good about this one. If LGM is truly a microcosm of the church, then I believe there are at least a couple of LGBT or curious folks lurking, and representing various dimensions of relationship with Christ. I want them to know that (a) the assertion that all Christians hate gays is a lie, (b) after talking with some Christians, I can completely understand why you believe that lie, and (c) everyone who claims to speak for Jesus really doesn't. Jesus loves you and He wants the same thing for you that He wants for us all: reconciliation and holiness. His love, His healing, His deliverance, His freedom, His salvation is available to all - believers, unbelievers, saints and sinners. He wants you healed, He wants you whole, He wants you holy.

[LaylaMonroe]

( I am not stating this as fact but only as opinion)

It seems like you focus so heavily on not offending homosexuals, that if i didn't know any better i would think that someone very close to you is gay because you seem to heavily emphasize sympathy, and in my life experiences the people who were ardent about being sympathetic fit into one of 3 categories

1) They were gay themselves or had been gay once

or

2) They had a gay relative/close friend (This was the most frequent)

or

3) They actually didnt see anything wrong with homosexuality.


I am not being accusatory but your posts do make me wonder.

In that case, I'm glad I didn't answer.

Pick one and believe whatever you want. I'm fine with whichever one you choose.

[LaylaMonroe]

@101, Oh and for what it's worth, your posts make me wonder, too.

[docjohn]

Some good points MT especially about "finding fault"/blame. Since LORD is always good,the blame for all the other stuff is sin.We look to find fault/dis/blame-mostly everything except self.

When sin entered into the world (or a situation);sin is really NOT so much a "real "entity as the absence of good.For a much better explanation-see www.StandtoReason.com  Greg Kokuls site. A similar analogy is a shadow;not so much a thing as the absence of light.

As far as jumbling all GBLT together-like everything else when talking generalities-it is where the shoe fits  to apply it.If it doesn't apply-it doesn't apply.

With regards to your friends' service-have no way(or desire) to judge them.On some level-it seems like a fundamental disconnect of some sort(like all sin is).It may be a desire to "have" the sense of normalcy(church family/relationship).It may be self -delusional -like I'm in church and because of that I go to heaven(like any cult or religion that places something =/to or above CHRIST).

The same disconnect would apply to the fornicator,thief/liar or any other sin you care to mention.But-if you are getting closer to JESUS-all that junk in the trunk has GOT to go!WORD says"if you're a son-expect rebuke;no rebuke=no sonship". JESUS has NOT let me alone on any of my sin,HE doesn't play favs.So,if somebody is never changing FROM a "known" sinful lifestyle-I'd question that.

James says to"resist the devil and he will flee"-that's not only for the guy in the red suit.The closer we get to CHRIST;others not of the same nature will have to leave-they will NOT be able to stand the tension.

JESUS ministered consistently with ONE general format(adapted for the individual): Law to the proud/Grace(love really ) to the humble which we have lost sight of.If you came to me and I pulled a jar of pills out and said "take 2 daily" -what for probably would be your first thought.But,if I said to you;"MB-I see 56 clear signs  of motumbo disease  which is 100 % fatal" you probably say "which ones".If you had noticed any of these things-next question would be "can these pills cure that?"

Imo-it seems like we lay law on one another while thinking we're gracing .You know-worse case scenario-grace is FOR the believer!!! We will get to answer to JESUS  for our sins,but(our sins) are covered by HIS LOVE/GRACE.

Those of a rebellious nature have no such luck.LORD will "grace" them to a point.But;if there is no repentance-there's gonna be a (bad) payday.I think we may be extending  grace to folks who may really need law.As Paul said,he didn't know what sin was until the law-but then it became my schoolmaster.Finding out the consequence of sin is a good thing.So,(wrongly) giving out "free "grace(which isn't free since it cost LORD everything) can be a deadly thing.Johns'epistle(JN3?) warned about wrongly wishing " and being a part godspeed of that evil"

But lastly,it's the individuals duty to seek out RIGHTEOUSNESS(CHRIST).My love/hate/sin or whatever is going to be a worthy excuse for the next guy.

Everybody gets their own time at the Judgement seat.I

[docjohn]

woops! towards the end should read wishing godspeed and being part of that evil.

[LaylaMonroe]

As far as jumbling all GBLT together-like everything else when talking generalities-it is where the shoe fits  to apply it.If it doesn't apply-it doesn't apply.

If I may jump in here, I'm not saying this to pick on you but I'm saying it because I really want to try to get you to see the error in this line of thinking. I want you to make an effort to see it from a different perspective and change how you approach your thinking on it so that you don't say stuff like that in the future.

You said that when talking generalities, where the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't apply.

Malthumb used the example of lumping black people together, so I'll continue with that example.  If you were to say "Black people are lazy and ignorant," most Black people here would be insulted. You could then say, "well if the shoe doesn't fit, it doesn't apply." But that wouldn't change anything because you said "Black people" which implies "ALL Black people." So you risk alienating the people you really want to draw.

So perhaps from here on out, you'll consider using qualifiers like "the gay people I've encountered" or "some gay people," etc.

[Manofchrist101]

@101, Oh and for what it's worth, your posts make me wonder, too.

I did not mean that as an insult.

I will tell you, i am man, who has always been heterosexual, and am married to a beautiful woman. Not a trace of gay inclination resides with me.

The reason your posts made me wonder if you fit into one of those categories is because at no point did you ever mention that gay people need the law of the Lord to Reform them.

You always seemed to emphasize the, "Christians need to be less offensive" approach which, To be honest makes you sound like a sympathiser of gays.


I could see if you said "gay is wrong but they must be corrected in love" Which IS BIBLICAL. (Romans 6:1 & Mark 12:31)

But you seem to completely say "be compassionate"

The fact is, compassion is needed but its not the whole picture, all the compassion in the world isnt going to help someone correct thier ways, they need to have some law mixed in with that compassion, otherwise youre just feeding them sugar and it wont help them

[LaylaMonroe]

Oh and also, Docjohn, you might be pleased to know the dude who ordered the cup of water was fired from his CFO job.

http://www.wdbo.com/news/news/local/video-chick-fil-bully-fired-cfo/nP9m7/

[LaylaMonroe]

I did not mean that as an insult.

I will tell you, i am man, who has always been heterosexual, and am married to a beautiful woman. Not a trace of gay inclination resides with me.

The reason your posts made me wonder if you fit into one of those categories is because at no point did you ever mention that gay people need the law of the Lord to Reform them.

You always seemed to emphasize the, "Christians need to be less offensive" approach which, To be honest makes you sound like a sympathiser of gays.


I could see if you said "gay is wrong but they must be corrected in love" Which IS BIBLICAL. (Romans 6:1 & Mark 12:31)

But you seem to completely say "be compassionate"

The fact is, compassion is needed but its not the whole picture, all the compassion in the world isnt going to help someone correct thier ways, they need to have some law mixed in with that compassion, otherwise youre just feeding them sugar and it wont help them

Look, bruh. I'm not insulted. All is well. You do ministry your way, and I'll do it mine. If your formula for winning souls works for you, and gay people have come to Christ through you, then by all means, keep up the good work. There is more than one way to skin a cat, amen? The Lord bless you and your ministry.