Chik Filet vs Chi,Boston,San Fran + more

[Manofchrist101]

If alchoholsim is a bad example you can disregard it

[funkStrat_97]

Well it really isn't about the specific examples you gave.  We are all born with a sexual nature and that in and of itself isn't sinful.  The problem is that when we condemn homosexuality, those who are gay feel that we are attacking them directly.  The message as they are likely to receive it is that God messed up when He made you and He is holding you accountable for His "mistake".

[gtrdave]

Well I agree that we are all born with a sin nature and homosexuality is a sin, but; can we categorize homosexual orientation in the same manner as alcoholism, rape, etc.?  Are people actually born alcoholics (or whatever particular sin suits their fancy)?

Some would say "yes".
There is ongoing research being done to determine what actually makes people behave as they do and how much is nature vs. nurture, with the scales tilting towards nature for MANY of our traits; why we like the colors we like, the people we like, the food we like, music, etc...and then add to that addictive personalities and compulsive types, etc...and some data supporting the fact that much of what we do, think, like, dislike and so on comes more from genes and dna than ever previously believed.
If in fact it's proven that we ALL have a disposition to do something morally wrong, science will once again prove that the Bible was right all along...

[betnich]

...whatever our struggle is, even if God won't deliver us from it, we are still expected to live holy. Like I tell those who ask me, if it means you have to live solo forever, it's the price you have to pay to crucify your flesh and pick up the cross and serve God. There are things that I will simply never be able to do (but still want to) all because I chose the cross...

Wise words, Layla. The Apostle Paul is a good example.

I know and can relate from bitter experience - not to compare w/Sexuality, but I have issues in another area - overeating. It wasn't until I admitted that my appetite was out of control and asked God for help (which He did) that I got any sort of victory in this area. And that monster will always be there; the siren song of forbidden comfort food still calls me, I could easily gain back the weight I have lost, I have done that before. And there seems a lot more condemnation of fat people in our culture lately.

We all have struggles with our flesh, just in different areas. The core issue here may be if your struggle is what you do (actions) or who you are...

[gtrdave]

There are things that I will simply never be able to do (but still want to) all because I chose the cross.

Amen and amen.
There's no struggle when I submit to my will, but it's a worthwhile struggle to submit to God's will.

[docjohn]

Paul Wilbur - Lord God Of Abraham - Live

a nice tune-dig that rap @ the beginning!!!!

[Mysteryman]

I agree with that. And as for the last sentence, this is the very struggle of so many church-going homosexuals. They believe that the only escape is for God to change their nature, and after years and years of begging, pleading, praying, fasting, asking, counseling, praising, turning-around-three-times, books, conferences and everything else, there has been no change... that's gotta be hard on the spirit and emotions. What I hear from every one of them is if it's such a sin and God hates it so much, why did he make me/allow me to be this way? Why won't he change me? I WANT to be delivered and I've done everything they've told me to do, so why am I still attracted to SGL relationships?

I think this is (one small) part of the reason we never find out what Paul's thorn in his side was. (And for those who can't read... lol... no, I'm not saying Paul was gay). Paul's thorn could be anything, and it lets us know that whatever our struggle is, even if God won't deliver us from it, we are still expected to live holy. Like I tell those who ask me, if it means you have to live solo forever, it's the price you have to pay to crucify your flesh and pick up the cross and serve God. There are things that I will simply never be able to do (but still want to) all because I chose the cross. The problem is that so many people live by the creed "until God takes it away from me, this is just who I am" -- and I'm talking about people in general, not just gays. I've counseled countless young people even here on LGM that are struggling with fornication, domestic violence, sexuality and drugs. And they all give me the same creed: I can't help it... I'm waiting on God to take it from me... yada yada yada. That may be true, but UNTIL HE TAKES IT, you still have to live holy. And if he never takes it, you still have to live holy.

And I also agree that alcoholism doesn't fit in here. While there is a predisposition to the disease, you have to first engage in unhealthy drinking in order to realize that disease. Homosexuality can (and often does) rear its head before there is ever any sexual or intimate contact at all.

No matter the sin or struggle, in order for it to continue to live you have to feed it. Ive know quite a few people with struggles in certain areas. Sometimes we cant see what is helping to feed our weakness where others can. This kind of coincides with my internal struggle thread. I have seen some overcome and some led to destruction. I am not trying to condemn anyone but we must learn ourselves in order to overcome.

I think there are a combination of things that will help you overcome. Fasting and prayer is just a part of it. I believe some people need help to grow to a point where he or she can stand on his or her own. It's just like growing from child to adult in the sense of maturity. I believe God and deliver anybody from anything. It just takes time in many cases. For the issue of sin with the believer, you just stop doing it. This does not negate the fact that you may struggle to stay free. I still say for anyone when you put in all in the pot it still boils down to a choice.

[LaylaMonroe]

No matter the sin or struggle, in order for it to continue to live you have to feed it. Ive know quite a few people with struggles in certain areas. Sometimes we cant see what is helping to feed our weakness where others can. This kind of coincides with my internal struggle thread. I have seen some overcome and some led to destruction. I am not trying to condemn anyone but we must learn ourselves in order to overcome.

Clarify for me what you mean in that first sentence. When you say "in order for it to continue to live" do you mean in order for the person to continue to engage in that sin or in order for the struggle to exist?

If you mean the latter, I have to disagree. I can use drug or alcohol addiction as an example. Or premarital sex. Yeah, let me use that one because I think more people can relate to that. If you have had sexual intercourse, and then you take up the cross and stop having sex, you don't have to go to movies, watch tv, read books, engage in conversation or anything for a sexual desire to run through your body. It's natural. I think one lie the church tells us is that if you have these thoughts you need to renew your mind or you're reading the wrong things or watching the wrong things or hanging out with the wrong people. That makes things so much harder for the young people or newly saved who will blame themselves or think they aren't saved enough... the fact is, sexual desires are natural and you can be reading the Bible, praying, doing homework or even SLEEPING and your body's natural desire to be satisfied can show up. You can overcome the struggle (i.e. abstain from sex) and still struggle (i.e. want to have sex).

So for that reason, I don't agree that a struggle has to be fed in order for it to exist. Not sure if that's what you were saying, but if so, I disagree.

[Mysteryman]

Clarify for me what you mean in that first sentence. When you say "in order for it to continue to live" do you mean in order for the person to continue to engage in that sin or in order for the struggle to exist?

If you mean the latter, I have to disagree. I can use drug or alcohol addiction as an example. Or premarital sex. Yeah, let me use that one because I think more people can relate to that. If you have had sexual intercourse, and then you take up the cross and stop having sex, you don't have to go to movies, watch tv, read books, engage in conversation or anything for a sexual desire to run through your body. It's natural. I think one lie the church tells us is that if you have these thoughts you need to renew your mind or you're reading the wrong things or watching the wrong things or hanging out with the wrong people. That makes things so much harder for the young people or newly saved who will blame themselves or think they aren't saved enough... the fact is, sexual desires are natural and you can be reading the Bible, praying, doing homework or even SLEEPING and your body's natural desire to be satisfied can show up. You can overcome the struggle (i.e. abstain from sex) and still struggle (i.e. want to have sex).

So for that reason, I don't agree that a struggle has to be fed in order for it to exist. Not sure if that's what you were saying, but if so, I disagree.

Maybe bad wording. My point is its a choice to sin or not to sin. Many people struggle with sin because they keep feeding it. I am talking about the struggle with sin. Not struggle in general, as in I struggle to lift 300lbs. Sorry for the confusion.

[LaylaMonroe]

Okay... I think I understand.

I would say: in order for the sin to continue to live, you have to feed it. But you don't have to feed a struggle for it to continue to live. Some struggles are just present and you can't pray or fast them away.

[LaylaMonroe]

It almost sounds like you're saying we shouldn't guard our minds, but I know that's not what you're saying.

I'm so glad you know that's not what I'm saying. (No sarcasm).

[Hasmonean1]

Okay... I think I understand.

I would say: in order for the sin to continue to live, you have to feed it. But you don't have to feed a struggle for it to continue to live. Some struggles are just present and you can't pray or fast them away.

Yes indeed.  That sounds like a thorn in the flesh to me.