LearnGospelMusic.com Community

Please login or register.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister  (Read 762 times)

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41463
  • Gender: Male
  • Hey ya'll!!!

Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« on: October 19, 2012, 08:18:53 AM »
What's the difference between the two?  We have a licensing service coming up, and I was wondering.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline funkStrat_97

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5187
  • Gender: Male
  • Da' House Rocka' is in Da' House!
    • Facebook

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 09:43:38 AM »
This may differ among different organizations as well as from state to state, but based on my previous church's practice, a licensed minister was at the bottom of the totem pole.  With ordination, you you could perform civil ceremonies such as weddings, funerals, and baby dedications.  Upon ordination, you were usually promoted to the title of elder and could pastor a church.  You also had legal authority to visit prisons and hospital ICU's (although most institutions would usually honor a local license as a professional courtesy).
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Offline berbie

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1895

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 10:41:43 AM »
I think that ordination is a church function, and licensing is a state function.  Ministers do functions that have state implications.  Marriage comes to mind right away.  In order to legally perform marriages in Arkansas, you need a license. Licenses in Arkansas are acquired at the county level. They are issued upon presentation of paperwork from the church in question.   Now licenses are also issued to people with internet paperwork, so another element of questionability(new word?)exists.   Other states might have different requirements.

Ministers go through a program of preparation and consecration in order to be ordained by their chosen church.  Of course, the processes differ widely from denomination to denomination and maybe from state to state, but I don't think any of them go through the state for ordination.

Offline LaylaMonroe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36422
  • Gender: Female
  • POW!
    • Order in the Church!

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 02:18:51 PM »
Funk Strat is correct. It does vary across different organizations, but by and large, licensing is the lowest on the totem pole and ordination allows for the performance of such ceremonies and ordinances as communion, baby dedication, marriage, funeral/homegoing, and even benediction (in some churches, the benediction must be pronounced by an ordained clergyperson).

When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41463
  • Gender: Male
  • Hey ya'll!!!

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 02:20:25 PM »
Thanks guys, I appreciate the information.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

smalls85s

  • Guest
Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 04:04:08 PM »
Just curious.

Which one of those if any does God recognize?

Offline Mysteryman

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7537
  • Gender: Male
  • The Jamaican breakfast patty created by me. :)
    • http://www.geocities.com/mysterymman1

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 04:24:08 PM »
Just curious.

Which one of those if any does God recognize?
A little something to spice this up.  :) Acts 1:26, Acts 6:3, I Tim 3
Vision without action is just day dreaming. I miss practicing.

Offline LaylaMonroe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36422
  • Gender: Female
  • POW!
    • Order in the Church!

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 05:04:45 PM »
Just curious.

Which one of those if any does God recognize?

What do you mean by "recognize"?
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

Offline Mysteryman

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7537
  • Gender: Male
  • The Jamaican breakfast patty created by me. :)
    • http://www.geocities.com/mysterymman1

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2012, 07:04:45 PM »
What do you mean by "recognize"?
Refer to scriptures above. :)
Vision without action is just day dreaming. I miss practicing.

Offline berbie

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1895

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2012, 10:34:05 PM »
Without reading the scriptures you noted, smalls85s, I will say that anyone can preach.  There is no law against it.  If a person feels that he has been called to preach, he can do so.  He can construct a church if he desires and preach or he can be a street preacher.  However, if that person wants to work within the framework of an organized church he must meet the requirements of that church. If there are legal ramifications relative to the State, he must meet them to be in sync with areas that the state is by necessity involved with.  You can't get a divorce, alimony, handle property divisions, child custody, social security matters, etc. in church. You need a marriage license and a legal official to marry.  If you don't have that, it could be a problem. Render unto Caesar.

I can see the necessity of an organized church.  Because I wonder whether all who say that they are called of God to go preach really are.  God recognizes those whom He has called to preach.  But do we?  Thus the organization, license and ordination.  We hope the ones who are called will be among those who will meet the requirements and stay the course, or at least that those who are not will be deterred by the requirements. 

God directs on our Christian journey, and we adhere to His will.  If God calls a person to go preach, then that is what he must do.   If God called him/her,  He will make a way.  I will read the scriptures, though at a later time.  I am sure that I have read them before, but it is hard to read the Bible too much.




smalls85s

  • Guest
Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 01:34:49 PM »
What do you mean by "recognize"?

Lets look at it like this.  Jesus personally selected 12 disciples. Let's say that they were called of God.

The bible says in Revelations that the names of the 12 apostles are written on the pillars and foundations in heaven.

When Judas turned out to be a traitor, he was no longer numbered among the 12.

They selected and ordained Matthias in Acts 1 to replace Judas. Even though they prayed, they had already made their choice to select someone and brought God their two options. God didn't tell them to ordain anyone. A lot fell on someone.

Later, Jesus himself called Saul, changed his name to Paul, then he was later called an Apostle.

So, which one of these two has their name on the real estate in heaven? Paul or Matthias?

Like I said, who does God recognize? One who has been called or one that has been licensed or ordained by an organization? Yeah you may be fulfilling legalities with all that paper work and ceremonies, but come on.  Do you really believe God officially sanctions everybody that has taken some classes and signed some papers?

Offline LaylaMonroe

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36422
  • Gender: Female
  • POW!
    • Order in the Church!

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »
Well then your question is flawed, Smalls85.

You said "which one of those if any does God recognize?" (And it could be a slight insult to someone's intelligence to imply that we are all so unlearned as to think that God has a system in place that includes licensing and ordination, but you are not). We all know that the Bible does not speak of licensing. That's not new information. A license doesn't earn you recognition with God. And a license doesn't mean that God doesn't recognize you.... that's just silly. I could ask the same about your marriage license. Its sole purpose is to adhere to a man-made system of order and governance, not to accomplish anything in the heavens. God doesn't recognize your marriage license either, but I bet you have one.

I have a license and I am ordained, and God recognizes me... so I guess the answer to your flawed question is: both.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

Offline pastor rob

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Gender: Male
  • God is still good!

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 02:36:53 PM »
Well then your question is flawed, Smalls85.

You said "which one of those if any does God recognize?" (And it could be a slight insult to someone's intelligence to imply that we are all so unlearned as to think that God has a system in place that includes licensing and ordination, but you are not). We all know that the Bible does not speak of licensing. That's not new information. A license doesn't earn you recognition with God. And a license doesn't mean that God doesn't recognize you.... that's just silly. I could ask the same about your marriage license. Its sole purpose is to adhere to a man-made system of order and governance, not to accomplish anything in the heavens. God doesn't recognize your marriage license either, but I bet you have one.

I have a license and I am ordained, and God recognizes me... so I guess the answer to your flawed question is: both.


and if i may add, God recognizes order. IMO, someone going through the process for licensing and ordination shows a capacity to be humble and submit to kingdom authority. you can be called of God, yet, not qualified yet. i think that people in the church spend to much time looking for flaws in the body. i'm glad i went through the process. i got valuable experiences that as made me a better preacher. too always look at how someone isn't this or that is destructive. agape.
In Him,

Pastor Rob

Offline Mysteryman

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7537
  • Gender: Male
  • The Jamaican breakfast patty created by me. :)
    • http://www.geocities.com/mysterymman1

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 03:09:40 PM »
I have heard other people say Matthias's apostleship was not valid but I believe it was just as valid as any of the other apostles. Apostle is said to mean sent one. They looked for certain qualifications from someone to fill the spot that Judas had. Paul and Matthias met those qualifications. Even Barnabas was mentioned as an apostle.
Vision without action is just day dreaming. I miss practicing.

Offline T-Block

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17111
  • Gender: Male
  • I got my MBA!!!

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2012, 02:47:24 PM »
Later, Jesus himself called Saul, changed his name to Paul, then he was later called an Apostle.

His name wasn't changed to Paul. His name was still Saul, just also called Paul. Scipture reference:

Quote
Acts 13:9
Then Saul, (who also is called Paul), filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

Nothing to do with the thread, just throwing it out there.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Hasmonean1

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3765
  • Gender: Male
    • USA Benefits Group

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 04:19:33 PM »
His name wasn't changed to Paul. His name was still Saul, just also called Paul. Scipture reference:

This is true, I do believe he was better known to the gentiles (us) as Paul but among the Jews he was still called Saul.

Offline phbrown

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11882
  • Google Fiber

Re: Licensing vs. Ordination of a minister
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2012, 09:10:07 PM »
hmmm ... time to get my berean on
Pages: [1]   Go Up