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Author Topic: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill  (Read 1748 times)

Offline betnich

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Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« on: November 13, 2012, 01:31:06 AM »
In response to Pres. Obama's re-election - apparently Seccessionists have been busy expressing themselves on the White House "We the People" website...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

What do you think?  ?/?

Offline SavnBass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 05:52:30 AM »
Yeah I saw this on a more right leaning board I also frequent. What I said there was they need to suck it up and get over it and move on. It is stuff like this that makes me feel that so much of the opposition to the president from many circles is because of his race. They won't admit that because maybe they don't fully understand it themselves. Maybe they are just travelling along that river in Egypt but there is a reason why for the second time since the civil war talk of secession has followed the election of a president.
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Offline Hasmonean1

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 06:39:46 AM »
Yeah I saw this on a more right leaning board I also frequent. What I said there was they need to suck it up and get over it and move on. It is stuff like this that makes me feel that so much of the opposition to the president from many circles is because of his race. They won't admit that because maybe they don't fully understand it themselves. Maybe they are just travelling along that river in Egypt but there is a reason why for the second time since the civil war talk of secession has followed the election of a president.

It can't be anything but racism.  George Bush was probably the worst President we have ever had and we heard no such talk.  What has Obama so terrible to cause such a reaction during his presidency? Racism is just as much alive as it ever has been. 

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 07:39:24 AM »
Yeah I saw this on a more right leaning board I also frequent. What I said there was they need to suck it up and get over it and move on. It is stuff like this that makes me feel that so much of the opposition to the president from many circles is because of his race. They won't admit that because maybe they don't fully understand it themselves. Maybe they are just travelling along that river in Egypt but there is a reason why for the second time since the civil war talk of secession has followed the election of a president.


Man... that's nothing.  Look at what this crazy chick done did!

She ran him down, yo!!!!
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Offline SavnBass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 08:15:52 AM »
It can't be anything but racism.  George Bush was probably the worst President we have ever had and we heard no such talk.  What has Obama so terrible to cause such a reaction during his presidency? Racism is just as much alive as it ever has been.

I'd have to qualify that with "in our modern era" .. although Carter was a close second.. a great guy but rather ineffective as a president.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 09:32:23 AM »
It can't be anything but racism. 

Yes, it can. Many people...including those who voted for Bush...have been upset with the direction of the country for many years. Look at an election map, for crying out loud. We are as divided a country as we've ever been and it's not because we have a black (or half-black) president. It's because he stands for moral and economic policies that 50% of the nation does not agree with. For what's supposedly a government "Of, by and for the people", many of those people feel as if it's anything but their government.

George Bush was probably the worst President we have ever had and we heard no such talk. 

I get a kick out of hearing just how bad Pres. Bush was, but the facts of his admin. don't support that opinion. Other than the Iraq invasion, his presidency was not bad, but because he was the sitting president during the time when all of the financial and banking legs got kicked out from under us...all due to the work of every president and administration from Nixon to Clinton...HE gets blamed for the crisis. Why? Because most of us fail to educate ourselves on history and are more comfortable going into emotional reactionary mode.
The same can be applied to blaming Obama for our current situation.

What has Obama so terrible to cause such a reaction during his presidency? Racism is just as much alive as it ever has been.

Again, you see it as racisim and I don't know if I'm the one to change your mind, but I see it as, again, his moral and economic policies. What has he done?
He put way too much focus on passing a health insurance bill that no one really understood and few people still understand the full details of and did so at a time when this nation was at a financial low point. A bill that costs people more money when they have less money is not exactly a wise move. Also, selling the health care act to the people as "not an additional tax", only to have the Supreme Court come out and say that it's a tax was seen as a deceitful bait-and-switch by his admin.

He also has pushed a green energy agenda without fully vetting out the green energy companies and instead of putting the money into universities and colleges where they already do a lot of the R&D for green energy, his admin. sunk...literally...hundreds of millions of dollars into enterprises that have failed, leading to no new green jobs.

His vocal support of gay marriage is still causing major waves and many people believe that an issue that should be limited to the states will probably become a federal issue and in the Supreme Court.

His continuous demonizing of the rich and wealthy, claiming that they don't pay their fair share, and then proclaiming that 'Clinton raised taxes on the rich and look at how much better-off we were' is hardly true, but again, those who don't know history and are driven by their emotions don't know that 1) Clinton had the tech-sector boom as his money maker, 2) Clinton eventually lowered the taxes and 3) Clinton had the tech-sector bust which he handed off to GWB (and Bush got us out of, btw...again, people forget or just don't want to know). Obama does not have anything like the tech-sector job creating monster to draw revenues from, he only seems to know to raise taxes.

I'm not saying that he's all bad or evil or whatever, but you seem to want to throw down the race card as the #1 reason for people not liking our current president and I'm giving you legit non-racial reasons why I'm aware of people being unhappy with him. Are some racists out there making noise and hating on Obama? Sure, but in my experience and opinion they are a small minority of his detractors.
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Offline under13

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 10:40:43 AM »
I think that if you take this seriously, then you need to take a chill pill.

Offline gtrdave

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 10:59:33 AM »
I think that if you take this seriously, then you need to take a chill pill.

It's the internet.
It's ALL to be taken seriously...










 ;D
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Offline SavnBass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 01:41:08 PM »
Yes, it can. Many people...including those who voted for Bush...have been upset with the direction of the country for many years. Look at an election map, for crying out loud. We are as divided a country as we've ever been and it's not because we have a black (or half-black) president. It's because he stands for moral and economic policies that 50% of the nation does not agree with. For what's supposedly a government "Of, by and for the people", many of those people feel as if it's anything but their government.


Yes but none of them threatened secession and the level of hysteria was nowhere near this high.. even from the left.. and it was very high from the left.

Quote
I get a kick out of hearing just how bad Pres. Bush was, but the facts of his admin. don't support that opinion. Other than the Iraq invasion, his presidency was not bad, but because he was the sitting president during the time when all of the financial and banking legs got kicked out from under us...all due to the work of every president and administration from Nixon to Clinton...HE gets blamed for the crisis. Why? Because most of us fail to educate ourselves on history and are more comfortable going into emotional reactionary mode.
The same can be applied to blaming Obama for our current situation.

Again, you see it as racisim and I don't know if I'm the one to change your mind, but I see it as, again, his moral and economic policies. What has he done?
He put way too much focus on passing a health insurance bill that no one really understood and few people still understand the full details of and did so at a time when this nation was at a financial low point. A bill that costs people more money when they have less money is not exactly a wise move. Also, selling the health care act to the people as "not an additional tax", only to have the Supreme Court come out and say that it's a tax was seen as a deceitful bait-and-switch by his admin.

He also has pushed a green energy agenda without fully vetting out the green energy companies and instead of putting the money into universities and colleges where they already do a lot of the R&D for green energy, his admin. sunk...literally...hundreds of millions of dollars into enterprises that have failed, leading to no new green jobs.

His vocal support of gay marriage is still causing major waves and many people believe that an issue that should be limited to the states will probably become a federal issue and in the Supreme Court.

His continuous demonizing of the rich and wealthy, claiming that they don't pay their fair share, and then proclaiming that 'Clinton raised taxes on the rich and look at how much better-off we were' is hardly true, but again, those who don't know history and are driven by their emotions don't know that 1) Clinton had the tech-sector boom as his money maker, 2) Clinton eventually lowered the taxes and 3) Clinton had the tech-sector bust which he handed off to GWB (and Bush got us out of, btw...again, people forget or just don't want to know). Obama does not have anything like the tech-sector job creating monster to draw revenues from, he only seems to know to raise taxes.

I'm not saying that he's all bad or evil or whatever, but you seem to want to throw down the race card as the #1 reason for people not liking our current president and I'm giving you legit non-racial reasons why I'm aware of people being unhappy with him. Are some racists out there making noise and hating on Obama? Sure, but in my experience and opinion they are a small minority of his detractors.


To deny that race plays a factor in this is just that denial. It does. Period. It may not be the sole issue but at the core of a lot of this is racism. This is why we had a federal judge crack jokes about his mother mating with a gorilla.. or maybe it was a monkey.. this is why at many of the rallies in 2008 I heard shouts of "that N****" and "kill him!!" on more than one occasion.. this is why we had stuff like this  .... .. and if you think that only one shirt was made you are mistaken.. there were loads of other similar such merchandise marketed. Now I am not saying that every one who opposed the president was a racist by a long shot.. but it was a factor in the tone and intensity of the criticism. In fact what I did say was:

Quote
It is stuff like this that makes me feel that so much of the opposition to the president from many circles is because of his race.


Aside from the Iraq war and the tax cuts (not so much that they were made but that they were paid for with borrowed money) and no child left behind .. and all the money his administration allowed private contractors to loot from the treasury.. yeah he wasn't that bad.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 04:31:12 PM »
Read carefully.
I did not deny that race played a part, I said that it wasn't the #1 reason and that in my opinion it's a small minority.
It's understandable that we see the topic of race and racism from different perspectives. All I'm trying to do is offer an objective opinion that it's not all about race and/or for many people race plays no part of this secession issue.
Frankly, I think it's all kookiness from the sour grapes crowd and hopefully will blow over quickly.
That said, I'm sorry for those who ARE using the president's race as motivation for their idiotic behavior.
Truly. I'm a white guy telling you that I'm sorry that other white people are still blind and ignorant and hateful, all because of a person's skin color.
I know better than to deny that racism exists.

As far as the tax cuts, they're directly tied to GDP and GDP is down. Way down, therefore tax revenues are way down. Our gov. needs to spend less, but few in gov. want to actually do anything besides cut the military budget and threaten old people and the poor. I would love to see an across-the-board pay and benefit cut for all of our elected officials. Unrealistic as it may be...
No Child Left Behind is not all bad, but it does have its critics and may not be idea for all schools across the board, which is why 25 or 26 states have opted out of the guidelines. Still, those states have to have their schools meet other guidelines and standards. I personally don't believe in a 'one size fits all' solution to our education problems, but that's what our federal gov. started in 1965 and NCLB was just an update to that supposed 'solution'.
As far as your last point, regarding contractors looting the treasury, I'll need details in order to research it, but on the surface it sounds interesting to me.

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Offline SavnBass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 05:15:59 PM »
As far as the tax cuts, they're directly tied to GDP and GDP is down. Way down, therefore tax revenues are way down. Our gov. needs to spend less, but few in gov. want to actually do anything besides cut the military budget and threaten old people and the poor. I would love to see an across-the-board pay and benefit cut for all of our elected officials. Unrealistic as it may be...
No Child Left Behind is not all bad, but it does have its critics and may not be idea for all schools across the board, which is why 25 or 26 states have opted out of the guidelines. Still, those states have to have their schools meet other guidelines and standards. I personally don't believe in a 'one size fits all' solution to our education problems, but that's what our federal gov. started in 1965 and NCLB was just an update to that supposed 'solution'.
As far as your last point, regarding contractors looting the treasury, I'll need details in order to research it, but on the surface it sounds interesting to me.


Fair enough on the first part.. won't even quote it.. Our problems have been in the works for decades as you have noted with the education issues.. that is my main beef with some of the more vocal criticisms of the president because they always seem to suggest to me (maybe I am just taking it wrong) that people seem to thing that we were doing just fine until that danged Obama got in office.. and of course there is nothing farther from the truth. We have been down this road in stages along the way for a while. I fault NCLB because from an educators point of view it has not been a success.. at least the educators I talk to.. my wfe is a teacher. As for the looting.. Well just consider some of the no bid contracts that were handed out for things like laundry and "consultants" in Iraq to companies like Blackwater and a few other subsidiaries of Haliburton. Also the fact that we had to borrow the money to even do this in the first place.

Hubris...

More

From where I sit concentrating on Obama is missing the problem because he is just a part of it and too many want to look at him as the problem.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2012, 05:54:50 PM »
From where I sit concentrating on Obama is missing the problem because he is just a part of it and too many want to look at him as the problem.

When a company or a sports team or any organization delivers a poor performance, the leader usually gets the bulk of the blame.
Just look at the Eagles this season. *shudder* Andy Reid should be ashamed...
I can relate to this with how I lead my music team. If a singer or player is not up to snuff, I get held accountable because, well, I'm the overseer and I permitted them to be part of the team. Yeah, there's grace and all that, but still...bottom line: it's my baby and I take charge in caring for it.
That said, I can't control every single thing that every single person does, but that doesn't change my role and responsibility.
And so it goes with Obama.
People see him as the leader because, well, he is. As such, right or wrong, he's going to be the easiest target and scapegoat. Ultimately, it's on his shoulders.

I'll check out those links you posted and a little of what you mentioned sounds familiar. Shades of Dick Cheney, the evil puppet master, comes to mind...
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Offline SavnBass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2012, 08:05:24 PM »
I understand what you mean Dave and I agree.. but I think our problems run deeper than any one administration and once we realize that we can maybe affect change maybe not.. but at least we would be aiming at the right set of bullseyes.

Frankly ... I really think we are done..

Check this out.. this was just released a few weeks ago..
Who really runs things?
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Offline ssabass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 07:36:48 PM »
I'm just going to tell it like it is. White america doesn't want this black man as there President. It has nothing & I mean nothing to do with his politics. This is america, the land of the slave & home of the white racist. This country will always be what it is, until a few more generations die off. You have those illiterate white southerns that would rather be dead, than call Obama their President. The Republicans had said from the beginning that they was going to be the party of "NO", because they wanted him to be a one term President. Then they spewed their hate message, to those southern white idiots & got them good old boys roused up. They are right now pacing their floor with so much hate in their heart, that they actually want to kill this black president. But they are just too stupid to understand that a greater power is backing this President. These last two election have been something that they have never witnessed, from any President.  Those crooked republicans are scratching there heads, wondering how this brotha won, after all the lies that they told & how they tried to portray President Obama as the worst President in history & how much debt we are in because of his policies, & so forth & so on. Knowing that their policies are the reason why this country is in the condition that it's in. They really know, after all the smoke clears, especially now that he won his second term, that he will go down as one of the best if not the best President to date. But they did our our fathers & their fathers the same way.  They told the world that we(blacks) are stupid, dumb, lazy & we were sub human. That's why in WW2 the Japanese thought we had tails. Yet we built this country & are behind some of the greatest inventions known to man. They know that we are a brilliant people, we just don't know it. Thats why the prisons are packed with some of the most brilliants brotha, in this country. Its their job to bring you/us down to build themselves up. But just like all the hell they put our people through, but yet we are still here as strong as ever. That's what they tried to do to our brotha, President Obama, but yet again they failed.  Thank You to those that helped put this brother back for a second term. Not because of his politics, but because of what it represents. Our children need to see this. Our children to need to read this in their history books. So that they can be proud, when they open their history books & see this beautiful black family gracing some of the pages. Cause a lot of our history is hidden from our children, but they can't hide this! history.

Offline SavnBass

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Re: Politics - some people need to take a Chill Pill
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 09:57:20 PM »
When a company or a sports team or any organization delivers a poor performance, the leader usually gets the bulk of the blame.
Just look at the Eagles this season. *shudder* Andy Reid should be ashamed...


Also...

In a way that's a bad analogy because Andy Reid has been the coach of the Eagles for 13 years and Exec. VP of Operations since 2001 I think.. so that steaming pile of poo that the eagles are is all in his hands. This is different.. I would be more willing to accept criticism of the president's  record if it had been all his doing.. but he had so much obstructionism from day one.. the party of no became the party of h@ll no in 2008 and in 2010 they became the party of h@ll no dammit!!

I think that also had  a lot to do with his reelection. The kicker is .. some of these folks STILL don't get it.. Bobby Jindal gets it.. That Gonzales woman from N.M.? She gets it.. Olympia Snowe she gets it.. Many others do as well.. Maybe there is hope for the GoP.
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