Major Scale Chord Intervals?

[Virtuenow]

Hi, where is the thread that describes how intervals are used to make-up the basic chords?  I remember a theory thread that helped beginners w/forming chords of the major scale by relating them to intervals.  I have gone through the LGM Ultimate Theory Collection and do not see it.  If you don't know could you describe the relation?  I am studying intervals right now to help train my ear for picking up chords better. 

[Virtuenow]

Also, are chord intervals (harmonic intervals) measured from the root note or the nearest note? Like in a basic chord, Would you measure from the 1 to 3, and then from the 1 to the 5?  Or do you measure from from the 1 to the 3 and then the 3 to the 5? 

[berbie]

To form a major chord in the root position, you simply put a major third next to a minor third.  Example:  in the C scale, C to E is a major third(four half steps).  E to G is a minor third(three half steps) The chord is thus C-E-G.    To make a minor chord, you simply flat the third( C-Eb-G.  The same applies to all scales.  If you know the scales, you could, of course, just select the first, third and fifth notes of the scale to form the chord. That is, the root, major third, and perfect fifth. 

Considering intervals, major intervals are the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th intervals.  Unison, 4th, 5th, and octave are perfect intervals.  Intervals having notes not included in the major scale that you are playing are chromatic intervals. Example, C-Eb in the C scale, or C-Db.  A chromatic scale would include all the notes in the scale. 

[Virtuenow]

Thanks, any response to the second question (post 2)?

[berbie]

Also, are chord intervals (harmonic intervals) measured from the root note or the nearest note? Like in a basic chord, Would you measure from the 1 to 3, and then from the 1 to the 5?  Or do you measure from from the 1 to the 3 and then the 3 to the 5?

If I am understanding your question fully,  I would say that you would measure intervals from the note that you are playing to the next note.  For example, if you were to play an E in the key of C, you would be playing the third of the scale, and if you played a G with the E, you would be adding the 5th of the C scale.  However, you would have an interval of a minor third.  If you played the C and the G, you would have a perfect fifth.  If you played the C and the E, you would have a major third. The 1 to the 3, the 1 to the 5 and the 3 to the five are three different intervals.

[T-Block]

You may be referring to this thread Virtuenow:

Chords In-Depth Part 2: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,57313.0.html


And Mr. Berbie is right, you measure intervals from the note you're starting on to the ending note.

[gtrdave]

Also, are chord intervals (harmonic intervals) measured from the root note or the nearest note? Like in a basic chord, Would you measure from the 1 to 3, and then from the 1 to the 5?  Or do you measure from from the 1 to the 3 and then the 3 to the 5?

You can do either:
measure interval from root to note (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc...and major, minor, perfect, augmented, diminished)
or
measure from root to the next third interval (major or minor)

That said, it's most common when describing the triad of a chord (the 1-3-5 notes) to measure from root to third and then from third to fifth as each is going to be either a minor (whole step and half step) or major third (two whole steps).
Know that there are only 4 chord triads: major, minor, diminished, augmented. Every chord is created from these three chord triads.
major = 1-major third-3 and 3-minor third-5
minor = 1-minor third-3 and 3-major third-5
diminished = 1-minor third-3 and 3-minor third-5
augmented = 1-major third-3 and 3-major third-5

For me, when I was younger, reducing music down to very simple numbers and math made understanding what I was hearing very clear. I knew music in my head, but I couldn't comprehend the theory behind it until it was made simple. 

[Virtuenow]

You may be referring to this thread Virtuenow:

Chords In-Depth Part 2: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,57313.0.html


And Mr. Berbie is right, you measure intervals from the note you're starting on to the ending note.

Yes, T-block that is the right thread!  I wonder why its not a sticky, hmmm... Thx.

You can do either:
measure interval from root to note (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc...and major, minor, perfect, augmented, diminished)
or
measure from root to the next third interval (major or minor)

That said, it's most common when describing the triad of a chord (the 1-3-5 notes) to measure from root to third and then from third to fifth as each is going to be either a minor (whole step and half step) or major third (two whole steps).
Know that there are only 4 chord triads: major, minor, diminished, augmented. Every chord is created from these three chord triads.
major = 1-major third-3 and 3-minor third-5
minor = 1-minor third-3 and 3-major third-5
diminished = 1-minor third-3 and 3-minor third-5
augmented = 1-major third-3 and 3-major third-5

For me, when I was younger, reducing music down to very simple numbers and math made understanding what I was hearing very clear. I knew music in my head, but I couldn't comprehend the theory behind it until it was made simple. 

Thank you for describing even more in depth, this is what I need, Gtrdave.  Do you all know why intervals are called perfect, major, minor and so on.  And likewise, why are chords called major, minor, etc.  In other words, is there a relation to the chord and interval name?  There are no perfect chords.  Do intervals have a "major" sound; or a "minor" or "perfect" sound?  I have to know the "why" in order to move forward. 

Last time we talked about how major 2nds are the same as whole steps and minor 2nds are the same as half steps.

Also discussed was that you have to understand that the terms major or minor as the terms relate to keys and scales and major or minor as they relate to intervals have nothing to do with each other.

I guess this answers part of my question. 

[gtrdave]

Do you all know why intervals are called perfect, major, minor and so on.  And likewise, why are chords called major, minor, etc.  In other words, is there a relation to the chord and interval name?  There are no perfect chords.  Do intervals have a "major" sound; or a "minor" or "perfect" sound?  I have to know the "why" in order to move forward. 

Why chords are named what they're named is a bit of history...and psychology, imho...with a lot of what we know in current music theory being 'discovered' and named by the Greeks around the 6th century.
There's also a psychological component to music. Notice how a major chord sounds happy or a minor chord sounds sad and compared to them both the diminished and augmented chords sound a bit 'off' or tense. To me, a dominant 7 chord always sounds unresolved, but if that dom7 chord is acting as a V chord in a progression, going to the I chord sounds naturally resolved and complete (play a G7 and then play a C...to me it's like 'question? answer.')
I don't fully know all that there is to know about why music sounds like it does...maybe because that's how God designed it to be...but I know what I hear and how my brain (and other people's brains) processes what I hear lines up with all that I've learned in music theory.

[berbie]

Someone probably thought that the perfect intervals were perfect, but to my ear, they don't register as being perfect except unison and octave, and octave is debatable.  Is it perfect?  Maybe it has to be.  Listen to the perfect intervals and see if they sound perfect to you(harmony wise).  Maybe they were perfect to the ears of those that rated them as perfect for the musical ear at that time.  How do they compare to thirds to you? 

[T-Block]

Yes, T-block that is the right thread!  I wonder why its not a sticky, hmmm... Thx.

That link is a part of the Ultimate Theory post. You just have to scroll down some to find it.

Do you all know why intervals are called perfect, major, minor and so on.  And likewise, why are chords called major, minor, etc.

Perfect intervals are named because they were traditionally considered perfectly consonant. Consonance deals with how stable a harmony or chord is at rest.  Perfect intervals have very simple pitch relationships and a high degree of consonance.

The other intervals get their names the same way. Major intervals have a little less consonance than perfect intervals. Minor intervals have even less, and so on.

Also, the physics of sound waves (acoustics) shows that the notes of a perfect interval are very closely related to each other. Perfect intervals have the simplest frequency ratios: Unison is 1:1, octave 2:1, 5th 3:2, and 4th 4:3.
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Here's is an insert from a link that gives a pretty technical answer to this question as well:

Intervals talk about the vibrational relationship between two notes. Any two notes, played in sequence in a melody or played together in harmony, have a relationship to each other that is distinctive to our ear. That relationship, called the interval, depends largely on the frequencies the the two notes - in particular the ratio between the frequencies.

So, if one note has a frequency of 500 Hertz (the blue vibration below) and another note has a frequency of 1000 Hertz (the red vibration below), the ratio between the frequencies is 1000:500.

(you can read the entire thing here: http://www.flutopedia.com/int1_perfect.htm)

In other words, is there a relation to the chord and interval name?  There are no perfect chords.

Since a chord is made up of different intervals of notes, there is a different system for naming them. A major (type) chord gets its name from the interval between the 1st and 3rd being a major interval.

C major chord:  C-E-G, the interval C-E is a major 3rd


A minor (type) chord gets its name from the interval between the 1st and 3rd being a minor interval.

C minor chord:  C-Eb-G, the interval C-Eb is a minor 3rd


A diminished (type) chord gets its name from the interval of the 1st and 3rd being minor interval, and the 1st and 5th being a diminished interval.

C diminished chord:  C-Eb-Gb, the interval C-Eb is a minor 3rd, C-Gb is a diminished 5th


An augmented chord gets its name from the interval of the 1st and 3rd being major interval, and the 1st and 5th being an augmented interval.

C augmented chord:  C-E-G#, the interval C-E is a major 3rd, C-G# is an augmented 5th

Do intervals have a "major" sound; or a "minor" or "perfect" sound?

Yes, they do have a distinct sound. For example, the infamous "tri-tone", which is nothing more than an augmented 4th or diminished 5th interval. The tri-tone has a sound unlike any other interval and is easily recognizable by ear in a lot of those churchy songs (think Norman Hutchins, John P. Kee, Hezekiah Walker music).

Over time you will develop a strong enough ear to be able to hear those different intervals.

[Virtuenow]

Thanks everyone who responded.  This is all really good information.  I need a few days to let it sink in!  I'll be back