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Offline The Black Surfer

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Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« on: March 11, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
Greetings fellow Levites!!,

I just felt like rambling a lil bit about the importance and benefits of reading music as well playing by ear. I know some have you have probably looked at my profile and saw that I put that I was a Drummer on a Professional level. Now before you go trying to find shed clips of me on Youtube (they?re aren?t any lol) hear me out! For those who don?t know much about me, I started playing drums at 4 years old. I started reading music in the second grade when I played the trumpet. Once I got in middle school I came back to drums. My oldest sister was already a legend in high school as being a black, female, left-handed drummer. By the time I got to high school, I had big shoes to fill. I played in church so I had the natural thing pretty solid. But I learned how to read, things just got easier. Whew lol Back to my original point. The main reason I consider myself a professional drummer is because I can read and execute on a professional level. Just got back from our Victory Winter Break (Tye and GA)- It was bananas!! We got back Sunday. On Monday I started my first rehearsal for a pit orchestra gig I got on Thur ?Sun. I am playing drums. I am by far the youngest in the band. Why am I here? How can I perfect 30 songs in 3 days? The answer? Reading. Reading music opens up other doors. It take the stress out of certain gigs because all it is is a map. For me it gave me a connection with my instrument. We don?t rehearse. We run through?now granted I grew up in church like you, there really a need for reading in church but I think it could help. Knowing your theory is equally important! Feel free to ask! This is what fellowship is all about!

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Offline DatDrummaboy87

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 11:34:13 AM »
You're right man...i cant read on a professional level yet, but whatever theory i have learned so far has made things easier overall behind the kit. This goes for all musicians. If we want to master music, reading is so fundamental.
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Offline lockslie1

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2009, 01:53:08 PM »
Good and encouraging words. Reading, theory, and playing by ear are ALL important. I'm trying to get to professional level at all of them. With the help of the Lord, I will get there very soon. Funny thing is......It's just something I have a desire to succeed in even though I don't desire the multiple gigs, touring, and engagements. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and your experience Black Surfer.   

Offline The Black Surfer

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2009, 03:55:03 PM »
Good and encouraging words. Reading, theory, and playing by ear are ALL important. I'm trying to get to professional level at all of them. With the help of the Lord, I will get there very soon. Funny thing is......It's just something I have a desire to succeed in even though I don't desire the multiple gigs, touring, and engagements. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and your experience Black Surfer.   
You are soo right man! i forgot to mention because most of my gigs now are on keys, I don't practice as much if as all on set. But because I can read I can still walk into any reading situation and rock, It's just a great tool to have. I like to compare Reading vs Ear to basketball. We all know dudes or some of you might kill on the court playing street ball. -This is playing by ear. The dude in the NBA have to have the fundamentals to hang with pro-ballers.-This is playing by sight. Not everyone can do both but the ones who can are well respected in both realms. I know alot of crazy musicians but their bound by the sheet music. Ya gotta find that balance when ya use your eyes and ears. Even if you just learns enough to practice ALL of the Rudies!!! lol like:

Roll Rudiments
Single Stroke Roll
Single Stroke Four
Single Stroke Seven
Multiple Bounce Roll
Triple Stroke Roll
Double Stroke Roll
Five Stroke Roll
Six Stroke Roll
Seven Stroke Roll
Nine Stroke Roll
Thirteen Stroke Roll
Fifteen Stroke Roll
Seventeen Stroke Roll

Flam Rudiments
Flam
Flam Accent
Flam Tap
Flamacue
Flam Paradiddle
Single Flammed Mill
Flam Paradiddle-diddle
Pataflafla
Swiss Army Triplet
Inverted Flam Tap
Flam Drag

Paradiddle Rudiments

Drag Rudiments

Single Paradiddle
Double Paradiddle
Triple Paradiddle
Paradiddle-diddle

Ruff/b]
Single Drag Tap
Double Drag Tap
Lesson 25
Single Dragadiddle
Drag Paradiddle #1
Drag Paradiddle #2
Single Ratamacue
Double Ratamacue
Triple Ratamacue

That's just 40 off the top of my head lol!!
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Offline JFunky

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 08:00:48 PM »
Greetings fellow Levites!!,

I just felt like rambling a lil bit about the importance and benefits of reading music as well playing by ear. I know some have you have probably looked at my profile and saw that I put that I was a Drummer on a Professional level. Now before you go trying to find shed clips of me on Youtube (they?re aren?t any lol) hear me out! For those who don?t know much about me, I started playing drums at 4 years old. I started reading music in the second grade when I played the trumpet. Once I got in middle school I came back to drums. My oldest sister was already a legend in high school as being a black, female, left-handed drummer. By the time I got to high school, I had big shoes to fill. I played in church so I had the natural thing pretty solid. But I learned how to read, things just got easier. Whew lol Back to my original point. The main reason I consider myself a professional drummer is because I can read and execute on a professional level. Just got back from our Victory Winter Break (Tye and GA)- It was bananas!! We got back Sunday. On Monday I started my first rehearsal for a pit orchestra gig I got on Thur ?Sun. I am playing drums. I am by far the youngest in the band. Why am I here? How can I perfect 30 songs in 3 days? The answer? Reading. Reading music opens up other doors. It take the stress out of certain gigs because all it is is a map. For me it gave me a connection with my instrument. We don?t rehearse. We run through?now granted I grew up in church like you, there really a need for reading in church but I think it could help. Knowing your theory is equally important! Feel free to ask! This is what fellowship is all about!

Never Stop!!!



...great stuff and very true!  The only thing I have to add is that a "rehearsal" is a "run through."  The problem is that in church the word is used wrong.  When we say we have rehearsal....what is meant is practice and that's a sad truth.

...congrats. on your accomplishments thus far.  Reading Music/playing your instrument(s) well opens the doors to many great opportunities. 8)
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline tko05

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 10:32:51 AM »
This is good stuff! I just got a gig with a guy around here and the first thing he did was send me the charts of what we were playing so I caould learn the songs before rehearsal. Reading is fundamental!! LOL!
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Offline brutha28

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 02:45:35 PM »
You are soo right man! i forgot to mention because most of my gigs now are on keys, I don't practice as much if as all on set. But because I can read I can still walk into any reading situation and rock, It's just a great tool to have. I like to compare Reading vs Ear to basketball. We all know dudes or some of you might kill on the court playing street ball. -This is playing by ear. The dude in the NBA have to have the fundamentals to hang with pro-ballers.-This is playing by sight. Not everyone can do both but the ones who can are well respected in both realms. I know alot of crazy musicians but their bound by the sheet music. Ya gotta find that balance when ya use your eyes and ears. Even if you just learns enough to practice ALL of the Rudies!!! lol like:

Roll Rudiments
Single Stroke Roll
Single Stroke Four
Single Stroke Seven
Multiple Bounce Roll
Triple Stroke Roll
Double Stroke Roll
Five Stroke Roll
Six Stroke Roll
Seven Stroke Roll
Nine Stroke Roll
Thirteen Stroke Roll
Fifteen Stroke Roll
Seventeen Stroke Roll

Flam Rudiments
Flam
Flam Accent
Flam Tap
Flamacue
Flam Paradiddle
Single Flammed Mill
Flam Paradiddle-diddle
Pataflafla
Swiss Army Triplet
Inverted Flam Tap
Flam Drag

Paradiddle Rudiments

Drag Rudiments

Single Paradiddle
Double Paradiddle
Triple Paradiddle
Paradiddle-diddle

Ruff/b]
Single Drag Tap
Double Drag Tap
Lesson 25
Single Dragadiddle
Drag Paradiddle #1
Drag Paradiddle #2
Single Ratamacue
Double Ratamacue
Triple Ratamacue

That's just 40 off the top of my head lol!!

Ok... i'm asking for a request as an experienced organist professional who does understand advanced music theory.  I've taken various levels of theory privately and have been playing the organ most of my life however i started out on the drums, but did not read music for that.  I've been trying to figure out the pattern or the placement you should do while practicing a drum roll or drum fill.  Is there a position you toms should be in or a level of placement of the snare in relationship with everything else.  A quick video if you ever had the chance would be extremely helpful for a concentrated musician.
Steven P.

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Offline j_kay

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 03:21:23 PM »
Ok... i'm asking for a request as an experienced organist professional who does understand advanced music theory.  I've taken various levels of theory privately and have been playing the organ most of my life however i started out on the drums, but did not read music for that.  I've been trying to figure out the pattern or the placement you should do while practicing a drum roll or drum fill.  Is there a position you toms should be in or a level of placement of the snare in relationship with everything else.  A quick video if you ever had the chance would be extremely helpful for a concentrated musician.

Ay, there are no hard and fast rules regarding a setup.  I would go for a setup that does not require straining or overstretching when playing on every drum and cymbal.  The set up should be just as easy as lifting a fork to eat, or picking up a remote control to change the channel. 

Essentially, I set my drums where my arm would naturally fall - try air drumming (I know that it sounds silly), then apply the same range of motion as it relates to the distance of your drums and cymbals when you set the kit up.
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Offline BigFoot_BigThumb

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 04:00:26 PM »
Good stuff surfer.  As I have said before to take notice that when you see Teddy Campbell playing with The Ricky Minor Orchestra, he has charts to his left.  He's one of the funkiest of our time, but he can read too and that is what is keeping him busy and well paid when the big-name artist gigs are over.  Being able to read music is like having an endorsement on your driver's license to drive trucks and trains.  You can do some much more when the opportunity arises. 

If some of you younger players should ever start playing jazz, it's all about what's on the chart because you are not told what to play or given artistic license unless a solo is called for.  I've been reading music as a brass player since I was in the 5th grade, but when I hit college and those jazz charts were being placed in front of me, in the long run it actually made me a better horn player as well as a better drummer.  You should learned reading for the fundamental sake of knowing it because everybody is not gonna let you just wing it.
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Offline brutha28

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 04:06:27 PM »
Ay, there are no hard and fast rules regarding a setup.  I would go for a setup that does not require straining or overstretching when playing on every drum and cymbal.  The set up should be just as easy as lifting a fork to eat, or picking up a remote control to change the channel. 

Essentially, I set my drums where my arm would naturally fall - try air drumming (I know that it sounds silly), then apply the same range of motion as it relates to the distance of your drums and cymbals when you set the kit up.


Ok... i've tried some of that approach like air drumming.  i get what you meant by that.  But i still can't seem to play with out your know striking IRON lol.  Is there an approach to fills and rolls?  I've seen one instructional video were there break it down between beats like with the pedal as the first stroke then snare then toms.  I can understand things a lil bit but as far as when to use certain fills stills comes as a science to me.  Can you help me out on that a lil.  Anyone  thanks for the info
Steven P.

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Offline j_kay

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 04:32:39 PM »

Okay, I didn't quite understand your sentence when you posted this:

I've been trying to figure out the pattern or the placement you should do while practicing a drum roll or drum fill.

So, I answered what I could understand, which was:

Is there a position you toms should be in or a level of placement of the snare in relationship with everything else.


Now on to this:

But i still can't seem to play with out your know striking IRON lol.  Is there an approach to fills and rolls?  I've seen one instructional video were there break it down between beats like with the pedal as the first stroke then snare then toms.  I can understand things a lil bit but as far as when to use certain fills stills comes as a science to me.  Can you help me out on that a lil.  Anyone  thanks for the info

Well it *is* a science - it's all muscle memory.  It's no different from when you began your first lessons by only playing with your left hand, then your right hand.  You didn't begin playing the organ by just riffin' all over the place, right?  You had to start off slow to learn what you were playing, then practice it to a comfortable tempo until you learned how to play it at any speed.  Again it's no different with drums.  It's all muscle memory...

In a nutshell, start off slow and build the tempo once you've gotten comfortable with the initial tempo.  Your body will tell you if you're playing too fast, as you'll tense up and you'll hit, as you would say "iron".  Use a metronome.







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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 01:54:15 AM »
Ok... i've tried some of that approach like air drumming.  i get what you meant by that.  But i still can't seem to play with out your know striking IRON lol.  Is there an approach to fills and rolls?  I've seen one instructional video were there break it down between beats like with the pedal as the first stroke then snare then toms.  I can understand things a lil bit but as far as when to use certain fills stills comes as a science to me.  Can you help me out on that a lil.  Anyone  thanks for the info


Start your set up placement with your bass drum hi-hat and snare placement. You should be able to close your eyes and naturally play your hi-hat and snare with both hands without clipping the sticks (hitting them together). Then place the floor tom even in height to the snare. Again you should be able to go from the hi-hat to snare to floor tom and eve criss-cross your hands between the snare and floor tom with your eyes closed. NOTE:Sometimes you may want to place the floor tom slightly higher than the snare say an inch or so for comfort. Especially if you sit low or are use to hanging/suspended low toms.

Next place the first rack tom or left rack tom. If your are playing a kit that has 3 rack toms across the front then the first tom will be slightly left of the center of the snare drum and the 2nd tom would be slightly right of the center of the snare drum.
If you are playing a standard 5-piece kit or a 4 piece kit then place the first rack tom directly in front of the snare drum. this creates what known as the "power square" configuration which makes getting around the kit the most efficient/effortless setup.
As far has the height between the snare and the rack tom... it should be at least the height of a full stick rebound of the snare so as when you hit he snare and let the stick "naturally" rebound up that you only have to ext end your arm forward slightly and the stick will land in the center of the rack tom.
When striking the rack tom and allowing a full natural rebound of the stick you should only have to angle your arm outward and it land on the center of the head of the floor tom or low tom. You should be able to do the same in reverse striking the floor/low tom and ed up center of the rack tom without effort.

Place your cymbals no higher than eye level angled slightly to prevent you from hitting directly on the edges as well giving you a sweeping angle of the bow of the cymbal.

You should not have to fully extend your arm to reach any drum nor cymbal on your kit with either hand and you should be able to do this with your eyes closed. This is when you know you kit is set up correctly for you. Always measure your distance from the center of the drum head(s). When rolling around the kit your arms should never be fully extended (1) it slows you down (2) it puts stress on the elbows (3) it reduces power and control because your sticks are too far away from the core/center of your body which is where music and tonality and power is generated.

Virgil Donati's video Power Drumming
Ray Luzier's DVD: Double Bass Drum Techniques, Hand & Foot Coordination, Drum Fills And Warm-Up Exercises (*Ray Luzier taught at Musicians Institute)
Both will teach you how to get around your kit properly, cleanly with power and accuracy.
Michael Packer's DVD is another great example of how to setup and get around your kit. (* Michael Packer is an instructor at L.A. Music Academy and the inventor of the heel-less DW 5000 and 8000 pedal http://www.michaelpacker.com/)
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Offline BigFoot_BigThumb

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 03:36:08 PM »

Place your cymbals no higher than eye level angled slightly to prevent you from hitting directly on the edges as well giving you a sweeping angle of the bow of the cymbal.

You should not have to fully extend your arm to reach any drum nor cymbal on your kit with either hand and you should be able to do this with your eyes closed. This is when you know you kit is set up correctly for you. Always measure your distance from the center of the drum head(s). When rolling around the kit your arms should never be fully extended (1) it slows you down (2) it puts stress on the elbows (3) it reduces power and control because your sticks are too far away from the core/center of your body which is where music and tonality and power is generated.




Very good info Sabe.  I was doing it all wrong years ago.  I changed my setup shortly after these pics were taken.  Get a load of my cymbals.  I might as well have been hitting the lights.  These pics are mad old s I took them in 1994.





I now have all of this on a rack and of course I have my cymbals much lower and in a more sensible position.  I also sold the 11x13 tom(the third tom) and moved the 10x10 to the first tom position.  I also got rid of the duct tape and let the heads sing.  I also changed the kick res head and use a Remo Powerstroke 3 with a 5 or 6-inch vent/hole on the lower-left side.  I sit pretty low and I would ususally be worn out when I was done playing.  I never associated it with a bad setup.  I'm thinking that I was trying to emulate some of my favorite players that kept their cymbals high and I had to learn from experience.

WHAT was I thinking with those cymbals?  Even Manute Bol might have had a probelm reaching those joints. 

But I will say I have taken great care of this kit and I still have it today, and I almost made the mistake of selling it, but I'm gonna keep it until it falls apart.  It is far from that point and you wouldn't know it's age if I hadn't told you.       
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Offline 1voice

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 08:45:06 AM »
I can't add much, but thats true and great stuff Black Surfer.
I was playing drums like you at 4yrs old, but got side tracked by the guitar(no more), Trumpet, and Bass. I mostly sing now, but i find myself going back to that first love of the drums, i just don't have the time to play at my church.Singing in 2 different choirs is enough. But reading is fundamental. I got a chance at a young age to play with a pit orchestra, on upright bass, yea with a bow, and then later on the trumpet. I got the music early, and yea, rehersal was a run threw, no a practice.If i couldn't read, wow playing by ear, you'de never make it threw the rehersal.Cause you know there are a few that try to fake it, can't do it on a proffesional level.
I think even as choir members, there needs to be more M.O.M. that TEACH choir members how to learn how to find what key they are singing in, and TEACH them how to read music  also.So they know what they are doing, and not just winging it.
anywho, just my comment. keep teaching, i have to do some reserch on those rudiments you left, thanks..
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Reading vs Playing by Ear!!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2009, 03:07:41 PM »
Very good info Sabe.  I was doing it all wrong years ago.  I changed my setup shortly after these pics were taken.  Get a load of my cymbals.  I might as well have been hitting the lights.  These pics are mad old s I took them in 1994.





I now have all of this on a rack and of course I have my cymbals much lower and in a more sensible position.  I also sold the 11x13 tom(the third tom) and moved the 10x10 to the first tom position.  I also got rid of the duct tape and let the heads sing.  I also changed the kick res head and use a Remo Powerstroke 3 with a 5 or 6-inch vent/hole on the lower-left side.  I sit pretty low and I would ususally be worn out when I was done playing.  I never associated it with a bad setup.  I'm thinking that I was trying to emulate some of my favorite players that kept their cymbals high and I had to learn from experience.

WHAT was I thinking with those cymbals?  Even Manute Bol might have had a probelm reaching those joints. 

But I will say I have taken great care of this kit and I still have it today, and I almost made the mistake of selling it, but I'm gonna keep it until it falls apart.  It is far from that point and you wouldn't know it's age if I hadn't told you.       


Thanks BFBT.
For clarification, the high cymbal is not necessarilly bad but in general the over dimensions/propartions of the set up has to match the body dimensions/proportions of the player. This information was not very prevelant back then except for the students of Freddie Gruber, Gary Chester and a possible elite short list of players and instructors.
Akira Jimbo plays with his cymbals high still but even though he is short he has a long torso. I have sat at his kit after a clinic and did not have to adjust anything and I am 6'3". Even though the through was lower than I sat normally at the time the ergonomics of the sett up fit the general anatomy of the human body. Reaching his cymbals does not require one to go to full arm extension. Sonny Emory as well still plays his cymbals high. Also Rick Latham.

* Not going past eye level on the cymbals is the best safe base for the masses based on balanced body proportions. However, being able to reach everything with either arm (even while crossing over the body) around the kit (even while blindfolded/eyes closed)is the most important thing to improve efficiency, promote best tone/sound generation and prevent injury.... It is just like when engineers design a top of the line car, when you sit at the kit you play on your gig or practice on it should be an extension of your body. Race drivers, pilots can feel everything about their vehicle and environmental effects through the cockpit seat and pedals and steering mechanisms (in our case throne). The kit one drives music with should be no different.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker
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