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Author Topic: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread  (Read 7136 times)

Offline outstretchedarm

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The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« on: July 07, 2014, 05:27:44 PM »
Hello, all

I recently purchased an instrument from Japan that I plan on getting proficient on.  I've created this thread to keep others informed of the progress I am making on understanding the instrument.

Here's a primer on the chromatone from the manufacturer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in9_ojEnfO0

And here is my "first impressions" video; me opening the shipment and getting acquainted with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3TQ7cftMQM&feature=youtu.be

Keep an eye on this space for future updates.

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 08:33:54 PM »
So nobody's interested in being able to play in all 12 keys easily?

No one is interested in learning a scale, or a chord, or a run, and being able to transpose it to the other 11 keys with no change in fingering?

Man, I woulda thought gospel musicians would be all over that :)

Offline berbie

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 09:51:47 PM »
What about the  transpose button?

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 08:23:55 AM »
what about it? :)

Transpose button can be helpful for beginners :) I myself used it for a long time but have stopped using it because I am now striving to develop my musical ear, and connect that to what my hands are doing.  So that means that when I strike C on my keyboard, it needs to sound "C".  But if when I strike C on Tuesday, if sounds "D" and when i strike C on Wednesday, it strikes "F", how am I ever going to build the ear/hands connection of which keys make what sounds?

I also very interested in doing techniques that involve transposing on the spot.  For example, there is a Jazz technique known as "side-stepping" (you may know about it) which involves playing a phrase, then quickly playing it again up one semi-tone, then again, up one more semi-tone. Its sounds cool.  Not sure you can do that with the transpose button.  Its a difficult technique on the conventional piano, but its much easier on the chromatone.

Just to be clear.  I'm not trying to persuade anybody that this keyboard is superior to any other.  That's a matter of personal taste.  What I am trying to do is share my excitement over the instrument, and perhaps put a few others on to being excited about :)

Thanks for engaging the topic.

Offline berbie

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 10:00:57 AM »
I only meant the question as a question. I would like to have the instrument but only as a novelty.  I imagine, though, that they are very expensive.  How do you think it would be for the typical keyboard player to switch back and fourth between the two instruments as he/she would surely have to do?  What about reading music and playing this instrument? Would a person just starting out do better with it?    What are the notes going from the bottom row to the top row in each vertical row?  Are the notes from end to end the same in each row?  How many notes are in each row?  If you're just looking at the rows, how do you immediately tell which note is which?  How much do they cost, and are they currently readily available?Are there many videos on the instrument?

Now, my personal viewpoint.  I don't think many current musicians, other than beginners, would have a serious interest in the chromatone at all. I have an interest because music is my hobby as much as it is a vocation, and I am intrigued by this new instrument.

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 11:09:12 AM »
Quote
How do you think it would be for the typical keyboard player to switch back and fourth between the two instruments


Good question.  I know Paul Vandervort (who plays the the Janko keyboard, which is the same layout as the chromatone except the keys are colored black and white like a traditional diatonic keyboard) plays both the Janko and the regular piano.

here's Paul playing the Janko

Demonstration of 4-Row Janko Keyboard


and here's Paul playing a conventional keyboard

Paul Vandervoort at Roxy Piano Bar.wmv


In fact, I've corresponded with Paul sked him about this, and he explained that what's going on in his head while he is playing the janko is pretty much the same as to what's going on in his head when playing a reg keyboard, except its a bit easier and he can actually look around the room more and check things out while playing.

With that said...

Quote
How do you think it would be for the typical keyboard player to switch back and fourth between the two instruments as he/she would surely have to do?


I'm not not sure he/she would "surely" have to do it.  The way we are accustomed to keyboard  playing is this: if you're a good keyboard player, you're expected to be able to walk up into anywhere and play their house keyboard.  If you walk into a church to play organ, you might not lug your keyboard there.  You might just play their house organ. Same for drums, right.

But consider that we don't treat many instruments that way. if you're a trumpet player, you bring your trumpet with you.  You don't play the house trumpet.  And if you walk into a house and they hand you a fuggelhorn, and they say "hey play this" you might say, the fuggelhorn is indeed similar to the trumpet, but its a slightly different instrument, and I don't play it."  Even with guitar, alot of players never play any guitar but their own.  They wouldn't play the house guitar.  They'd go get theirs from their trunk.

So a chromatone player might choose to be just like that: "I play chromatone, not piano." And if someone asks him to play at a church or a studio or a gig or whatever, he'd say "hold up while I get my instrument from the car."

Or he could choose to double on regular piano.  Whichever he (she ) prefers :)

Quote
What about reading music and playing this instrument?


I have not yet tried sight reading on this instrument (indeed, I am only a beginner-ish sight reader on regular piano).  I plan on doing sight reading exercises on it starting next week.

Off the bat, though, my guess is that its about the same difficulty.  The "pro" is that, once you are used to the major scale looking like a certain shape, all you need to do is shift your hand over to whatever the new root is, and suddenly the sharps and flats will fall into place automatically (I"m not sure if I'm explaining myself clearly right now).  The "con" is that notation, as we know it in Western Culture, resolves around the diatonic scale (specifically around the key of C) so reading diatonic music in C will be easier on a conventional piano.  But once you leave C, I think diatonic piano and chromatone become equally difficult.

Quote
Would a person just starting out do better with it?   


Interesting question; one that I have thought of. The inventor of the instrument, Wataru Ohkawa, would definitely say students should start on a chromatone so that they learn to think chromatically, and not diatonically, from the very start.  In fact, he started his daughter on it when she was about nine (I'm not sure if she played another instrument first):

lesson1


And here she is about 16, playing very well (along with her dad)

spain.mov


In my short experience so far, I'm glad I have been playing piano seriously for the past year.  I've already gotten through those difficult moments where my fingering didn't want to cooperate, or I couldn't figure out the right fingering for a riff, and those moments when I had to slow the metronome way down to 35 BPms to learn something.  So it gave me some discipline that I am now applying to the chromatone. 

My feeling is that without determination and disciple, you'll give up in frustration on the instrument before you start to reap the benefits.  But that's not any different from any instrument, is it?

Quote
What are the notes going from the bottom row to the top row in each vertical row?  Are the notes from end to end the same in each row?  How many notes are in each row?


I couldn't find a map of the chromatone, but here is the map of the janko layout, which is identical except the keys are painted black and white in the way you are familiar with:



In short, vertical notes are the same note, so you have three middle C's, etc.  I'll explain why that's advantageous in a future post.  Horizontal, each note is a whole note up.  Diagonal (up and to the right) is a semi-tone up.  Like a regular piano, once you go up all the notes, a new octave begins.

A helpful tip for understanding is, in the beginning, just look at the very two bottom rows.  You'll see that its just like a regular piano, but at "F", the F "jumps" up to the second row and Gb jumps down to the first row.  Which makes ALL the sense in the world, once you think about it, because F is only a half-step up from E.  So why should it be to the right?  It should be up and to the right!


Quote
If you're just looking at the rows, how do you immediately tell which note is which? 


Good question.  On the japanese chromatone, it is indeed very hard to tell which note is which, as they are not painted bacl and white like on the Janko.  Ohkawa did this on purpose because he clearly does not players to be thinking in terms of the C diatonic scale.  he wants you to look at all 12 notes as part of one chromatic scale. 

There are little tiny dots at the top of the keyboard letting you know where the C of each new octave begins.

if you think about, this is pretty much the same as guitar.  Just looking at a guitar fretboard, its hard to tell which notes are which, you sorta just memorize which frets play which notes, and you are partially guided by those dots every few frets.

I myself *want* to see diatonic notes, cause I like knowing where I am on the keybord.  So, tomorrow, some Avery removable stickers are arriving from Amazon that I'll be placing on the keys :)

Quote
How much do they cost, and are they currently readily available?


After shipping handling, and money exchange costs, I paid $907 for it.  This is expensive.  If Yamaha had made it, it would cost about $250 to $350 dollars.  But this is a small outfit in Japan so their costs are high.

I didn't buy this on a whim by any means.  I first was introduced to this instrument in 2008, and have not stopped thinking about it ever since, and made it one of my top goals this year to buy it and begin learning how to play it.


Quote
Are there many videos on the instrument?


Here's a chromatone playlist I made


Offline 4hisglory

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 11:12:50 AM »
So nobody's interested in being able to play in all 12 keys easily?

Can't this be done easily one a regular piano?  Not trying to be funny but the piano have only 12 keys.  That keyboard have a lot more.  :) 

I think it would be tough to retrain my brain to play that.
:)

Offline T-Block

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 11:55:58 AM »
This sounds like an interesting instrument to explore (I bet Cory Henry learning it right now, lol). I think just like any instrument they all take practice to get used to playing efficiently.


For example, there is a Jazz technique known as "side-stepping" (you may know about it) which involves playing a phrase, then quickly playing it again up one semi-tone, then again, up one more semi-tone.

The music theory term for that is playing a sequence.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline berbie

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 12:22:53 PM »
Thanks so much for all the info.  I wouldn't mind having one at all, but the cost would be hard to(get behind)in my mind.  It would be a great novelty and conversation piece.  I could just imagine spending time learning to play it as something new and different.  It might be a distraction to carry to programs and services though,  at least for a while, and especially in my small town. 

I wonder how they'd sell at the Guitar Center for $400.00.

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 06:47:26 PM »
Can't this be done easily one a regular piano? 

Hey :)

More power to you if you play well in all 12 keys.  I myself struggle outside of "my" keys (C, G, etc )

I don't find transposing easy on the traditional piano *at all*

Quote
Not trying to be funny but the piano have only 12 keys.  That keyboard have a lot more.

This keyboard also have only 12 keys :)

Quote
I think it would be tough to retrain my brain to play that.

I agree. I  have decided that the benefits of learning my dream instrument outweighs the downside the months that will be "waisted" relearning a new instrument

This sounds like an interesting instrument to explore (I bet Cory Henry learning it right now, lol). I think just like any instrument they all take practice to get used to playing efficiently.


The music theory term for that is playing a sequence.

Thanks for that.

Thanks so much for all the info.  I wouldn't mind having one at all, but the cost would be hard to(get behind)in my mind.  It would be a great novelty and conversation piece.  I could just imagine spending time learning to play it as something new and different.  It might be a distraction to carry to programs and services though,  at least for a while, and especially in my small town. 

I wonder how they'd sell at the Guitar Center for $400.00.

I respect your feeling.  For me, this won't be a novelty.  This is my instrument for the foreseeable future.

Offline berbie

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 07:51:54 PM »
I really would like to know how it works out for you.  Obviously, to this point, you are very satisfied with it. I sure would like to try one.  Best wishes for speedy learning.

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2014, 10:37:15 AM »
Here's my second video on the Chromatone: Second Impressions

Description: In this video, I discuss what I think about the instrument after having had it for three days.

http://youtu.be/yHyxPcm_7mM

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 09:50:09 PM »
Description: An explanation of why I colored the Chromatone the way I have


! Private video

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2014, 12:31:50 PM »
hello all,

I'm back with two updates. 

The first is that I made a video a few weeks ago explaining best practices for fingering melodies/scales/arpeggios on this instrument.  It's here

http://youtu.be/Shf750fl1pM

The second is that, due to the slow but steadily increasing interest in Janko / Chromatone keyboards, I've started a google group for the topic.

Anybody interested in invited to join.  here's the link:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/janko-chromatone

Take care, everybody.  God bless.

Offline Mysteryman

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2014, 12:56:08 PM »
Thanks for the info.
Vision without action is just day dreaming. I miss practicing.

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2015, 09:18:17 PM »
Here's the latest instructional video:

Chromatone: Triads - How to Form Them and How to Use Them

http://youtu.be/fVEjFYytV54

Description: In this video, I explain, for the context of the Chromatone, why triads are important, how to form them, and how to use them in two basic rhythms.

Feel free to join us at the Janko-Chromatone group, created to discuss topics just like these

Offline outstretchedarm

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Re: The Chromatone Keyboard Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2015, 01:34:54 AM »
Chromatone: Basic Scales

Description: A primer on how to play and practice some very basic scales on the Chromatone


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