Where do you draw the line with praise and worship music?

[SavnBass]

As far as genres of music that you can just slap on something about God and call it praise music.. Where do you draw the line?

This question was prompted by two songs in particular that I heard on the radio this week that were done in ... for lack of a better term.. that disjointed droning, mind numbingly repetitive style of music that seems to have become popular oiver tha past few years with droning drum beats and rep;etitive phrases sung an bastardized ebonics with a touch of urban miseducation.. as in muvah.. fawvah for mother and father .. hitenh it for hitting it... gitenh it for getting it .. etc etc etc etc... Now the songs I am referring to that inspired this post were .. for me frankly unbearable and downright ... I have no words to describe them actually.... one was I luh God... you know the one... "I luh God... yououn't luh God? Wassrongwitchu?"
The other one was Reppin God ... Now with all due respect to these artists...

WHUUUUUUUUT!!
Now these songs to my ear are pretty much indistinguishable from their more worldly counterparts.. and if you have to listen closely to the lyrics to figure it out... does it still count as praise music? Everytime I hear a gospel singer say "Can't no body do me like Jesus!!" I CRINGE... becauie when I think of DO ME... I am not thinking spiritual... At what point do you say ok.... this is .. just... too much...

For me .. that was it.... With all due respect to the artists in question...

Now maybe I am missing something.. Maybe I just don't get it.... but  Can any genre of music be translated to praise..? Don't get me wrong.. I have heard some praise hip hop that was on the money... but this stuff..? It is almost comical to me ..... in fact the first time I heard "I luh God" I cracked up..
 

[SketchMan3]

It is comical. Lol. hahahahahahahahahahaha XD that stuttering , though...

The worst thing about the first song, imo, is how bad it is, hehe.

The second one is just The God In Me 2.0 It's kinda cool sounding, at least. I don't hear the secular stuff of that style too often so it doesn't make me think unholy things, but it's just kinda materialistic. The lyrics don't make up for anything the music is lacking, in my opinion.

[SavnBass]

Well .... yeah... which betrusses my point... The lyrics are sorely lacking.. and IMO the second song is far removed from The God in Me... If you listen to The God in Me .. and you don't have to sift your way through a bunch of looped beats and demolished English and bad grammer either.. You can get early on that the singer is saying basically People see me with all the material trappings of success and thing I am all tat but what they don't know is I am just like them and it is only through the Grace of God that I have these things and I know that.. basically ... She isn't talking about her swag .. and being fly... Which begs the question again.. When is it too much? Are there certain styles of music that just do not need to be associated with P&W because they just translate poorly?  Even well established Gospel artists IMO cross lines ... and it is obvious that it is done solely for record sales... As much as I like some of Kirk Franklin's stuff.. there are some of his songs that I still to this day cannot see myself ever fully appreciating... Stomp is one of them... In my mind every time I hear this song ... I hear Funkadelic.. "She turns me on and oooooonnn.... " so it kills it for me...

So what do you guys think? Am I just being picky.... I just don't think we should try to slap a GOD label on something and call it P&W....

[Hasmonean1]

I think that not all ears, spirits, and personal experiences are created equal.  It seems there will always be differences when it comes to what blesses one person or the other.  The line I draw probably won't be equivalent to the line another brother or sister might draw.  I just have to go with what blesses me and keep it moving.

OAN  I have never thought of "Can't Nobody Do Me Like Jesus" like that until I read it here.   

After looking it up, I still don't understand the meaning of "Trap" music.  I see it started in the early 90's according to Wiki.  At that time my music listening habits took a 180 degree turn so I'm not familiar with any of the examples given.  Can anyone help me understand what Trap Music has to do with "I Luh God"?

[SketchMan3]

Trap Music, as it is now, is a type of electronic dance music that uses orchestral synths, 808 drum machine, rapid hi-hat subdivisions, syncopated kick drums and sub-bass lines, and has a generally silly hard-to-take-seriously feel. The music is pretty droney and makes you feel like you're on LSD or something. It's party "turn up" music with emphasis on the build-ups and drops. Apparently it used to have aggressive intimidating lyrics and sound pre-2012... post-2012 trap just sounds like clown music to me, lol, especially with regards to the delivery of the lyrical content.

It kinda sounds like dubstep and electro house got married, moved to the hood, and birthed and raised a child there. That's what the modern style of trap sounds like to me. Where dubstep and electro house become more energetic after the build-up and drop (*WUUUB WOBWOBWOB SKREEEE FWAP! WHIRRRR WUB-WUB WWWWW FWAP! YUH-YUH-YUH-YUH* for dubstep, *UNCE WUBSKREE FWAP! UNCE WRRR-WUBWUB FWAP!* for electro house), modern trap leans more towards "boooooom CLAP! boom-boooom CLAP! boooom wubwub CLAP! booom-boom WUBWOB".

I'd say "Turn Down For What" is a good example of what trap music is now (if you look it up... try and avoid the music video, haha. Find a non-video example, cuz that thing is...  )

I Luh God has the droning bassline, the silly lyrics, the drum beats with the rapid hi-hats, sub-bass, it's even lyrically "aggressive" kinda with the "what's wrong wit-chu?" thing, lol. And after listening to it my brain feels like it's shrunk at least 1/8. Sounds like trap to me.

[SavnBass]

Trap music? Is that what they call it? Yeah it's trap music alright.. It traps people into thinking that they are actually making music when in reality all they are doing is rearranging noises... Hasmo.. while I certainly can dig where you are coming from, I respectfully disagree. I think there are and there should be limits... By your definition, if I wrote a song called "F U Satan!" with appropriate follow through lyrics to match .. someone would be able to appreciate it based on their tastes, personal experiences and spirit... but that won't make it praise... 

[Hasmonean1]

Trap Music, as it is now, is a type of electronic dance music that uses orchestral synths, 808 drum machine, rapid hi-hat subdivisions, syncopated kick drums and sub-bass lines, and has a generally silly hard-to-take-seriously feel.

Thank you very much for the good explanation brother.  I got a good understanding from it except this first line.  I'm not so musically literate.  It's cool though.  When you hang with the musicians you should learn something about music.  I'm going to look that stuff up.

[funkStrat_97]

One of the features of contemporary Christian and gospel music is this: the genre is completely defined by the lyrics.  Over the past several years, just about all styles of popular music has been "Christianized" and sold to the Christian market.  There was even a sub-genre called "Chazz" which was Christian Jazz - an adaptation of smooth jazz.  There have been various hip-hop and rap artists come and go.  You even have Christian death metal which is rather ironic because Christ came to give us life.  Calling some of this stuff praise music is a bit of stretch because much of it would more appropriately described as Christian entertainment.  But I guess at the end of the day, that stuff just doesn't sell anymore, so they probably have a better chance of success by calling it praise music.  I really wonder, though, how many people actually listen to and enjoy CCM outside of church?

One problem with CCM is the lack of artist recognition.  Mention JZ, Kanye, Beyonce, or Taylor Swift and you've got a conversation starter.  But go around talking about some Mercy Me, or Israel, or Fred Hammond and you'll probably get a blank stare even among a lot of Christians because we might recognize the some of the songs from church, but don't really have clue as to who "our" artists are.  We really need to stop demonizing everything that doesn't have a "Christian" label on it.

And the I'd like to share with you exhibit A:

Jesus Rider

Can't wait to try this out in church next week 

[funkStrat_97]

Here's another one for you consideration.  It appears that the artist in this video has recently passed.

LordSide Gangster

[Hasmonean1]

Here's another one for you consideration.  It appears that the artist in this video has recently passed.

LordSide Gangster

If I was with this brother or his crew, all I could sing would be, "I'm on the Lord side now, Everything's alright".

They'd be looking at me like wassup esse'. 

[SketchMan3]

Trap music? Is that what they call it? Yeah it's trap music alright.. It traps people into thinking that they are actually making music when in reality all they are doing is rearranging noises...

You lost me here, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[JemaineC]

In my opinion the best place to look at is scripture. Col 3:16 talks about we encouraging one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual song so that the word of God may dwell in us richly. That should be the basis why we come together to sing in a church context and compose for congregational singing.

In 1 Cor 14 where he refers to order in the church, everything should be done so people may understand what the message is. Better 5 words of meaning then 1000 words in tongues.

This can be applied when we compose songs. It should be clear what the message is. In our church our entire song database is based on gospel centered lyrics. We love singing about Jesus and the cross. There's no specific genre, but it seems like most of those type of songs are hymnal or from the CCM genres. There might be other genres aswell; even trap! Israel Houghton has some great songs!

When it comes to people doing songs not for congregarional singing, there is little more freedom to what the lyrics might be but I would say that the purpose of our talent and skills is to praise God and serve people, not necessarily with gospel songs, but it should be edifying and life altering to the listeners.  David might have been able to compose amazing hits if he had a DAW, but I'm 100% sure there wouldn't be any unclear messages in his compositions and it would most probably be gospel centered. Remember, just like money, music is neutral. If it brings glory to God, then it is fine. If it does not, then it's evil. The same chords can be use for good or evil.

That should be where we draw the line...

[malthumb]

Good conversation folks.  As Hasmonean said, not all ears, spirits, and personal experiences are equal, so what you are willing to accept is a function of how your ears and your spirit are tuned by your personal experience.  I grew up listening to a lot of Soul, R&B, Funk, love ballads, and early rap.  And I always favored music that was good layered under lyrics that told a story.  Rhyming on beat was never enough, there had to be a story.  Earth Wind & Fire, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Luther Vandross, KRS1, Heavy D, Grandmaster Flash.... they all told great stories.

For me, that has heavily influenced my preferences in inspirational music.  I can handle call and response, but give me the STORY and I'll cherish it and learn from it.  One of my favorite songs that I sing with my choir is "Please Don't Pass Me By" - Fred Hammond and radical for christ.  Every time I sing it, I can see the scene playing out in mind and I can feel what the blind man is feeling.

There was a blind man on the roadside
and he heard a commotion pass
It was Jesus passing by with a crowd
And it stirred his emotion

He'd been displaced his whole life
Should he even try?
(Don't Bother Jesus) That's what they said
(You have nothing to offer) Stay in your place
(Right then he knew) He had to choose
(He had nothing to lose) So he cried Jesus
I need you
Please don't pass me by
He cried out Jesus
I'm not ashamed
I need you in my life

Compare that to "I luh God"?  I can't.  I just can't.  But what about Regina Belle's "God Is Good".  I can do that one all day and all night, with all the colloquialisms and slang and the haunting rhythm.  Because underneath all that is a powerful story.

[jonesl78]

Previous generations generally feel that their "time" was better than the current. I read a comment on youtube from a kid commenting on how the music back in the 2000's was so great!!! Music now is different from when you grew up, that doesn't make it bad. 









Fact:   EWF is the greatest band ever

[funkStrat_97]

That song, "I Luh God", reminds me of the theme music to the Twilight Zone series.

[T-Block]

This really is a great discussion. I think some of the confusion comes in with how music is categorized. Music can be categorized by the lyrics, by the music, and/or by the combination of the two. The combination of the two is where all these sub-genres come from. In my book, there are really only 3 categories: gospel, secular, instrumental. I base my categories strictly on lyrical content, but that's off-topic, lol.

This is my personal opinion about the topic at hand:

Different kinds of music speak to different kinds of people. However, I think the line with P&W music should be drawn with one simple question: Does it bring glory and honor to God? Just because you don't like how it sounds or the word choices that are used, doesn't mean that it doesn't bring glory and honor to God. For example, "I luh God" sounds comical and uses bad English, but does it bring glory and honor to God?

I respect everyone's opinion though.

By your definition, if I wrote a song called "F U Satan!" with appropriate follow through lyrics to match .. someone would be able to appreciate it based on their tastes, personal experiences and spirit... but that won't make it praise...

LMBO!!! The sad thing is you're right that would some people would be all over a song that says that.

[SavnBass]

This speaks to what I am talking about....

[funkStrat_97]

This speaks to what I am talking about....

Whoa...who's the babe with the short skirt?  I'm going to THAT church!  Bun in all seriousness, the business of worship is just that.  It's a business.  You find some people who go to church or were raised in church (some of them may actually know the Lord) who can sing and look good and you've got an potentially gold mine on your hands.  Christians are too eager to claim artists as being ministers of the gospel or "anointed" for kingdom purposes because that seems to elevate art to something higher than just being art.  Somehow, entertainment is a dirty word as it seemingly lacks any serious purpose.  I'm not saying that there aren't true worshipers and worship leaders, but the music industry could care less if those marketed to Christians are actually Christian or if their music and mission are truly focused on God's agenda....as long as it sells and they can make a few bucks out of it.  If they do good enough, they might even pay the artists a little something.