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Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: 4hisglory on September 14, 2005, 11:19:14 AM

Title: Polychords
Post by: 4hisglory on September 14, 2005, 11:19:14 AM
For the people that think of chords as polychords, which ones do you use????


Major chords
C / Em7      -orgianlly got this from hammondman

Minor
C / EbM


Dominant Chords
C7 / D
C7 / dim7
C7 / Ab
C7 / Em7b5
Title: Polychords
Post by: jonesl78 on September 14, 2005, 12:57:32 PM
Personally, I like to name the chord according to the root. This is best for me in a band situation if I am calling out chords to the other musicians.
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on September 14, 2005, 01:20:24 PM
CMaj \ DMaj
CMaj \ EMaj
CMaj \ Gsus2
CMaj \ GbMaj

C6 \ GMaj

C7 \ GbMaj
C7 \ AMaj


Common Gospel Chords:

C7 \ AbMaj
C7 \ BbMaj
C7 \ Em7b5
CMaj \ BbMaj7b5
CMaj \ Bbdim7


That's some of the ones that I use.
Title: This is...
Post by: 4hisglory on September 15, 2005, 06:34:42 AM
I like this one....

C7 \ GbMaj
Title: Polychords
Post by: 4hisglory on December 21, 2005, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: B3Wannabe

Common Gospel Chords:

C7 \ AbMaj
C7 \ BbMaj
C7 \ Em7b5
CMaj \ BbMaj7b5
CMaj \ Bbdim7



I've finally started to use some of these.  Real nice.
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 21, 2005, 10:23:41 AM
Those chords look cool. But I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to use them. The way some of the chords are written, they're really altered from what they appear to be at first glance. For example,

C / EbM appears to actually be CminMaj7

but I'm not sure. And that's an easy example. I guess I'm just not sure how to name the chords. Do you just forget about naming these chords altogether and just sort of listen to each chord until you figure how to use it?
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 21, 2005, 10:41:18 AM
Nevermind my last post. I made a mistake. I will repost after I think about this some more.
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 21, 2005, 01:37:21 PM
OK, I've given up on trying to name these polychords. Do you just forget about naming these polychords altogether and just sort of listen to each polychord until you figure how to use it? Take these polychords for example:

C7 \ AbMaj
C7 \ BbMaj
C7 \ Em7b5

When can I use them? Can I use them any time there's a C7? How do I approach figuring out how to use these chords. Is it trial an error? Please explain some general rules, thanks.
Title: Well....
Post by: 4hisglory on December 21, 2005, 01:53:51 PM
I use to try to identify each chord also, but I couldnt. :)  So now I just identify the "type" (as in Major, Minor, Dominant, etc) and use it like that (basically what you said).
Title: Re: Well....
Post by: sjonathan02 on December 21, 2005, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: 4hisglory
I use to try to identify each chord also, but I couldnt. :)  So now I just identify the "type" (as in Major, Minor, Dominant, etc) and use it like that (basically what you said).



I think I like this line of thinking, 4HG. It seems to make it easier if you know what type of sound you want. Is that about right?

I know for me if I can really begin to hear the effects of a dominant and diminished chord, then I think I will have really broken through this playing "barrier".

Be Blessed. Is this is some great stuff.

Jonathan
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 21, 2005, 02:05:44 PM
C7 \ AbMaj = C7 (#9 b13)
C7 \ BbMaj = C11 (#13)
C7 \ Em7b5 = C9 (#13)


These are usually used in specific places, because of the 13th. I'll write out some examples with each later. It's 5am here. I need to go to bed.


....Adding to this: It's very easy to identify chord names, if you have the numbering system down. Also, every chord can be called something else, because since there are only 12 notes, the same notes could make up a different chord, if inverted. That's how you get direct substitutions.
Title: Polychords
Post by: T-Block on December 21, 2005, 02:10:36 PM
I'm with u on this one playhear.  I don't understand polychords either.  I mean, both hands together make one chord. Take this chord for example:

C7 \ AbMaj

Are yall actually playing a whole C7 chord in your left hand and an Ab major chord in your right hand like this:

C-E-G-Bb / Ab-C-Eb

That seems kinda crazy to me when I can just play it like this:

C / E-Ab-Bb-Eb

The G is missing, but u still got a comtemporary 6 in Eb, which will most likely go to an 2:

C / E-Ab-Bb-Eb
F / Ab-C-Eb
G / G-Bb-Eb
Ab / Ab-C-Eb
Bb / G-Bb-Eb

Will u look at that?  It's "Jesus Is My Help" chords by Hezekiah Walker.  Sorry I got off topic, but I thought that would be kinda neat.
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 21, 2005, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: T-Block
Are yall actually playing a whole C7 chord in your left hand and an Ab major chord in your right hand like this:

C-E-G-Bb / Ab-C-Eb



Yep...or...

C-E-Bb / Eb-Ab-C
C-Bb / Eb-Ab-C
C-G-Bb / Eb-Ab-C


I play in the middle a lot, so full chords, in the left, don't sound muddy. The deeper I get, the less I play. If I'm running bass, I usually do no more than 2 notes, dropping a left hand chord when I play higher notes.

An open voicing would be like:

C-Bb / Ab-C
C-E / Eb-Ab

C, G-Bb \ Ab-Bb-Ab *bass note played first then chord*

There are a lot of ways to play around with that chord.
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 21, 2005, 03:05:21 PM
thanks
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 21, 2005, 03:21:21 PM
Quote from: B3Wannabe

C7 \ AbMaj = C7 (#9 b13)
C7 \ BbMaj = C11 (#13)
C7 \ Em7b5 = C9 (#13)
quote]

How about these names instead?

C7 \ BbMaj = C11
C7 \ Em7b5 = C9

I'm not sure why you're saying #13.
Title: Polychords
Post by: sjonathan02 on December 21, 2005, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: playhear
Quote from: B3Wannabe

C7 \ AbMaj = C7 (#9 b13)
C7 \ BbMaj = C11 (#13)
C7 \ Em7b5 = C9 (#13)
quote]

How about these names instead?

C7 \ BbMaj = C11
C7 \ Em7b5 = C9

I'm not sure why you're saying #13.


That's what I was thinking too. But I tell ya, I love that Cmin7#5 OR....

C7/AbMaj

at least as it looks to me.

Jonathan
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 21, 2005, 07:21:09 PM
See! I told you it was 5am, when I wrote that!

LOL


Yea. Use those names.


Quote from: sjonathan02
That's what I was thinking too. But I tell ya, I love that Cmin7#5 OR....

C7/AbMaj

at least as it looks to me.


It's only that, if you don't put the E in the first chord. If there's an E, then the chord can't be minor, because the "true" third is there. The Eb (D# rather) becomes a #9, but if you do...


C-Bb \ Eb-Ab-C

...then you have your chord...but again...if you add the G...

C-G-Bb \ Eb-Ab-C


...then the Ab become a b13.
Title: Polychords
Post by: sjonathan02 on December 22, 2005, 06:57:17 AM
Quote from: B3Wannabe
See! I told you it was 5am, when I wrote that!

LOL


Yea. Use those names.


Quote from: sjonathan02
That's what I was thinking too. But I tell ya, I love that Cmin7#5 OR....

C7/AbMaj

at least as it looks to me.


It's only that, if you don't put the E in the first chord. If there's an E, then the chord can't be minor, because the "true" third is there. The Eb (D# rather) becomes a #9, but if you do...


C-Bb \ Eb-Ab-C

...then you have your chord...but again...if you add the G...

C-G-Bb \ Eb-Ab-C


...then the Ab become a b13.


You know, I actually understand what you're saying. And, I can really hear the difference when adding that E.

I don't like the b13 though...too much clash for me.

Jonathan
Title: Polychords
Post by: T-Block on December 22, 2005, 09:11:46 AM
Oh, I get it now you guys. Thanks for the clarification B3.  I don't chord with my left hand too much, but I still want to learn how to do it.
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 22, 2005, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: sjonathan02
You know, I actually understand what you're saying. And, I can really hear the difference when adding that E.

I don't like the b13 though...too much clash for me.

Jonathan



 8O  8O

You take that back!!


I know what you mean. It took me a while to get used to the sound of the dissonance. I used to do just C-Bb in the bass, but I always wondered why my chord didn't sound the same as the one on some songs. I listened really hard and heard the E in there, then eventually I  added the G, from listening to Joe Sample and watching some of the other people, on the net.

I starting to chord more with my left hand than I run bass, but I haven't really ran a bass line in 7 years. I've been playing with bands, for the past 3 years, so all I did was chord. I really wanted to stay out of the bass player's space. That's why my running bass lines are a weak now. Plus, I didn't practice them. I have to practice them and my scales all over again....Next year. That's one thing that I got out of this, though, I can chord with my left hand pretty good now.
Title: JOe...
Post by: 4hisglory on December 22, 2005, 10:09:43 AM
Joe Sample sucks :)
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 22, 2005, 10:26:43 AM
See!

Now, you're just being pugnacious
Title: Well...
Post by: 4hisglory on December 22, 2005, 10:30:35 AM
pugnacious (puhg-NAY-shuhs), adj.: Disposed to fight; inclined to fighting; quarrelsome; fighting.

:D
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 22, 2005, 11:39:16 AM
LOL

Don't you LOVE www.dictionary.com???

Whenever I think I use a word too much, I look for a synonym.
Title: Polychords
Post by: sjonathan02 on December 22, 2005, 11:39:31 AM
Hey, Hey, Hey...I'm the teacher, remember!?  :lol:  :lol:


I'd like to work on being able to chord with my left hand. All I do know is play octaves or fifths or dom 7ths (sometimes)...

Next year, I hope.

Jonathan
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 22, 2005, 11:47:41 AM
I'd like to work on being able to chord with my left hand. All I do know is play octaves or fifths or dom 7ths (sometimes)...[/quote]

I only chord with my left if my left is in the middle to upper registers. If using lower registers with my left hand, I usually arpeggiate with no more than 3 notes in my left hand. For example,

1, 5, dom7
1, 5, maj7
1, 5, 1 octave
1, 5, 3 octave

What do others do? B3, I've already read generally what you do.
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 22, 2005, 11:53:57 AM
Quote from: sjonathan02
Hey, Hey, Hey...I'm the teacher, remember!?  :lol:  :lol:


I'd like to work on being able to chord with my left hand. All I do know is play octaves or fifths or dom 7ths (sometimes)...

Next year, I hope.

Jonathan


Yea. I rarely do straight 5ths. If I do a fifth, I either make it a full chord or add a octave, 6th or 7th to it. That's if it's in my left hand. I do plain 5ths, in the right...sometimes.

We need to swap some skills! LOL....I have to relearn how to run my bass lines.
Title: Polychords
Post by: T-Block on December 22, 2005, 12:02:39 PM
Man, I am so jealous of u now B3.  :D  :lol:
 
I wanna chord with my left hand too.  Does it take a long to time to learn?  All I do is play octaves or 5ths in my left hand.  Most of the time I am running bass lines cuz i am the only bass player at my church, so when I'm on the keyboard, i have to fill in the bass too.
Title: Polychords
Post by: playhear on December 22, 2005, 12:11:40 PM
Quote from: T-Block
Man, I am so jealous of u now B3.  :D  :lol:
 
I wanna chord with my left hand too.  Does it take a long to time to learn?  All I do is play octaves or 5ths in my left hand.  Most of the time I am running bass lines cuz i am the only bass player at my church, so when I'm on the keyboard, i have to fill in the bass too.


Chording in the left is oftentimes easier. Here's why: when chording in with the left, I usually only do it at the middle to higher registers. Accordingly, the right is playing only the melody. This works well and sounds good when I have a bassist. When I don't have a bassist, this technique makes the music feel like something could be beefier underneath. However, my girlfriend likes the less beefy sound better. Go figure.
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 22, 2005, 12:29:13 PM
Quote from: playhear
Quote from: T-Block
Man, I am so jealous of u now B3.  :D  :lol:
 
I wanna chord with my left hand too.  Does it take a long to time to learn?  All I do is play octaves or 5ths in my left hand.  Most of the time I am running bass lines cuz i am the only bass player at my church, so when I'm on the keyboard, i have to fill in the bass too.


Chording in the left is oftentimes easier. Here's why: when chording in with the left, I usually only do it at the middle to higher registers. Accordingly, the right is playing only the melody. This works well and sounds good when I have a bassist. When I don't have a bassist, this technique makes the music feel like something could be beefier underneath. However, my girlfriend likes the less beefy sound better. Go figure.


Yea. I'm with playhear. It is easier, to me. I don't have to think about improvising, which is what you have to do with a bass line. I just chord the bass note and do subsitutions on the right, which is usually a chord based off the 2nd, 4th, 5th or 6th.

If you have a good bassist or drummer, you're more free to chord with your left hand, but it does sound slightly open, if you just do chords in the left all the time, like me.

It doesn't take too long to learn. You can do it faster, if you have a bass player, because then you can just practice playing songs with your left hand...which is kind of hard, at first. The second method is to just play the major progressions with your left, chording each note....For instance, in another post, a dude was asking about a 7-3-6...

You can do a 7dom, 3dom, and 6min...or with a 2-5-1, you can do 2min7, 5dom, 1Maj7 or 1Maj6.
Title: Polychords
Post by: oversabby on December 23, 2005, 06:18:06 PM
B3Wannabe
Moderator


Joined: May 29, 2003
Posts: 2084
Location: Seoul, Korea (From: Detroit, MI)
 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
playhear wrote:
T-Block wrote:
Man, I am so jealous of u now B3.  

I wanna chord with my left hand too. Does it take a long to time to learn? All I do is play octaves or 5ths in my left hand. Most of the time I am running bass lines cuz i am the only bass player at my church, so when I'm on the keyboard, i have to fill in the bass too.


Chording in the left is oftentimes easier. Here's why: when chording in with the left, I usually only do it at the middle to higher registers. Accordingly, the right is playing only the melody. This works well and sounds good when I have a bassist. When I don't have a bassist, this technique makes the music feel like something could be beefier underneath. However, my girlfriend likes the less beefy sound better. Go figure.


Yea. I'm with playhear. It is easier, to me. I don't have to think about improvising, which is what you have to do with a bass line. I just chord the bass note and do subsitutions on the right, which is usually a chord based off the 2nd, 4th, 5th or 6th.

 
 hello B3Wannabe!
can i get an example of what you mean by the substition in your right hands based off 2nd ,4th,5th,or 6th.
Thanks!
Title: Polychords
Post by: B3Wannabe on December 23, 2005, 09:14:03 PM
Here are a few progressions:


Key B

2-5-1
C#min7 \ C#-F#-B  
F#Maj \ D#-G#-C#
B6 \ C#-D#-G#-C#

7-3-6
A#dom (no 5) \ B-E-G#
D#Maj (no 5) \ C#-F#-A#
G#dom \ A#-D#-A#

1-4-5
BMaj \ G#-C#-F#
D#Maj \ C#-F#-A#
EMaj \ C#-D#-F#-B


I actually view both hands as 1 chord. I'm justwriting it out, like this, because most people understand it better this way.

The left hand chords are all root inversions.
Title: Chording with left hand
Post by: Pianogurl on December 24, 2005, 05:27:18 PM
I totally agree with B3. it is easy. Dont get me wrong, it do take practice.but you will get it reallly soon :D