LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: benniedm on October 06, 2005, 12:20:44 PM
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I would like to get everyone's case on burning cd's?
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I would like to get everyone's case on burning cd's?
Be more specific. For example, I'll buy a CD and then someone may ask if I could copy it for them, and I will. I don't think that's a problem necessarily.
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Here's what I do:
My musicians can't go out and buy entire albums for all the different songs that we do, and not all of them read music so buying sheet music doesn't help or else you can't find it. Sooo.
I usually try to think ahead of songs that we will probably try to learn over the next 3 months. I make a copy of "individual songs" only. So I may have a CD with 10-12 different songs from different artists. So I don't make a copy of the entire CD.
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i think the people that are healed and delivered from a song that was sung on Sunday morning that was burned(or learned by illegal sheet music) need to be rebuked and casted in the pits of hell
on a serious note... if you like the artist then normally you will support them in what ever way u can(CD T-Shirts Concert)
and once i buy the CD IT IS MINE!!! ... i can do what i want with it...
I hate fact that it seems that the industry is headed toward the "you are paying for the rights to listen to the album" and we will throw in some cover art for free.... with all this CD copy protection stuff
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Me personally, If I buy a CD and a friend wants a burned copy, I think I sould not burn it because It's against the law to make copies "UNLESS" specified on the album. 2nd, You are not sowing back into the ministry of the artist that is blessing you and you actually Stealing from them and their ministry. 3rd, if you have money you sould buy it. That's right before the Lord. If I had a cd, I Know I would want someone to buy it not burn. In some case I think you can burn like to give to the church musician to learn a song or something. Or if the CD label specifies a certin amount of burns you can make like on the Mary Mary cd.
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Here's what I do:
My musicians can't go out and buy entire albums for all the different songs that we do, and not all of them read music so buying sheet music doesn't help or else you can't find it. Sooo.
I usually try to think ahead of songs that we will probably try to learn over the next 3 months. I make a copy of "individual songs" only. So I may have a CD with 10-12 different songs from different artists. So I don't make a copy of the entire CD.
That's exactly what I did as MOM.
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Yea thats a good idea to just burn songs instead of whole cd's for musians
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If you don't like it, don't do it. Why should you buy a whole CD just for like 1 or 2 songs? That is a waste of money when you can just get the song from someone who already has the CD, or download it from the interntet. Now, that is only just if you want a couple songs and not the whole album. If you want the whole album, then i would suggest buying it in the store cuz the quality will be a whole lot better. I am not knocking anybody for burining CDs, but that is just my preference.
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another angry question.. why the never sue the people who make blank cd's...lol or cd burners... we would still be dubbing cassettes if it wasn't for them... :lol:
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another angry question.. why the never sue the people who make blank cd's...lol or cd burners... we would still be dubbing cassettes if it wasn't for them... :lol:
Lol I was just asking that same question the other day...It's like they don't want you to burn cd's,BUT you can have a pack of 100 cds for 15.00 versus buying just One cd for 19.99....I still think it's wrong to flat out burn a whole cd (although i sometimes do it myself) I still go out and buy that album if I plan on listening to it more than once...Alot of us as musicians are required to learn and listen to various songs so it's sometimes alot easier to just download a song then delete it once you've listened to it and learned it.
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BENNIEDM - I'm not going to give you my opinion about the cd burning thing, just the law and what God expects of us as Christians. From there, it's your choice whether to do the right or wrong.
You can read up on copyright info at www.copyright.com . Here are legal answers to what was discussed:
1. It is not illegal if you are burning a copy of a cd you purchased for your own personal use. For example, I buy cds for my kids and burn a copy, so that when they scratch their cd I'll have a back-up.
2. SJONATHAN02 -To burn a cd that you purchased, even if it is one song, to give to another person, including your your church, musicians or choir members breaks copyright laws, is illegal and thusly goes against the principles of God.
3. DREDAKYST - Once you buy a cd, you CANNOT do with it whatever you want. That's why copyright laws are in place. Your purchase only allows you license of fair use.
The blank cds were made with good intentions. For home & studio recording, for mixing personal cds. As always, man will find a way to abuse things.
4. RICHBET - Unless you are mixing the cds from purchases you , what you are doing is illegal too.
Now, I was QUEEN of BOOTLEGGING, so I am not condemning ya'll. I got delivered. I realized that first of all, it is stealing. Stealing is not more valuable than my relationship with God. Secondly, the artists are loosing money because of theives like you and I.
Imagine if someone was stealing a huge portion of your hard earned weekly paycheck...you were suppose to make $5000, but the theives left you with $1000.
Would you sit back and say "I don't see nothing wrong with that?"
Would you want it to continue happening because you still have enough money to "get by" on?
Most importantly, do you think God is pleased with your behavior...Is God leading you to illegally burn cds OR are you under satanic influence? It's got to be one or the other
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THANKS TO SIS T
That is what I was looking for. As Musicians and Saints of God, We need to do what is Right NOT in our Eyes but what is HOLY unto GOD. WE cannot not treat Holiness like an option but it must be a Standard Feature of our lives.
Sis T. You hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much
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Sis T,
I must admit that I get a gut(spirit) check every time I make a copy for another person of one of my CD's. Our previous worship leader never made copies of CD's because he was/is and aspiring Christian artist. When he left and I was designated for the position of worship leader by my pastor, my musicians said that the hardest part about trying to learn the new songs was not having the music.
So I took the easy (wrong) way out and started making copies of the individual songs. I struggled feelings about STEALING from the artist who created the song, but also wanted to have an excellent ministry. And the only way I could see accomplishing that was to make copies of the music.
What have you done as a practical alternative? You hear a song you want to do in service and you want the musicians to learn it? What do you do?
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I'm glad for SisterT's post. Now, I don't have to waste my time. This thread is not an opinion. SisterT laid down the law. I agree it's correct. You're either breaking the law or you're not. It's up to you.
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Sis T,
I must admit that I get a gut(spirit) check every time I make a copy for another person of one of my CD's. ........ I struggled feelings about STEALING from the artist who created the song, but also wanted to have an excellent ministry. And the only way I could see accomplishing that was to make copies of the music.
What have you done as a practical alternative? You hear a song you want to do in service and you want the musicians to learn it? What do you do?
That statement above you made, which I bolded made me think, When you don't do things the way God intends for you, you suffer from "limited vision." When we are "under the influence" (satanic) we are blinded to the very thought that there could possibly be a way....especially since this is a God-Given assignment.
When I stopped making copies for the choir, I began applying the following methods (By the way, I also don't issue out typed lyrics of the song. It's a hinderance to memorization):
1. Work harder at learning a song BEFORE rehearsal. Know all the choir parts and have all parts (Tenor, Alto, Soprano) written out before rehersal. When the choir sees that you are prepared and ready in rehearsal, it will illiminate a lot of "challenging" attitudes.
2. Don't rush learning a song. Take your time and teach what the lyrics mean. The choir will better appreciate and comminucate more effectively what they are singing.
3. Work with lead singers one on one. Allow them to listen to cds only during the rehearsal time. Encourage them to bring a tape recorder so that they can tape themselves during the rehearsal time. They will have something to listen to and practice with prior to Sunday.
4. Encourage the choir to strive for excellence. I have taught songs with leads to the choir without them ever listening to a tape. It can be done. You are the leading, you must apply yourself.
5. This should have been first..... PRAY, and then pray some more. I really don't believe we in the Music Ministry Pray enough. Pray for God's anointing and guidance.
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1. It is not illegal if you are burning a copy of a cd you purchased for your own personal use. For example, I buy cds for my kids and burn a copy, so that when they scratch their cd I'll have a back-up.
That's exactly what I do...except I convert mine to either 128kbps or 192kbps mp3 then put to data cds...so I get several at a time they can all of there instead wasting one CD for a exact backup...maybe you should try it that way..I have over 200 Gospel CDs alond and used about 50 data CDs FOR BACKUP!! :D :D :D
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MadeaT scoots over the veinna sausages and reaches for the peice of steel......she puts it back when she realizes her son, who got "jokes" gave her some good information.!!
Life spared! "Dis time :lol: :lol:
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MadeaT scoots over the veinna sausages and reaches for the peice of steel......she puts it back when she realizes her son, who got "jokes" gave her some good information.!!
Life spared! "Dis time :lol: :lol:
You know I LOVE YOU!! :D :wink:
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Did you know you can buy one song from a cd at Wal-Mart.com and download it for $ 0.88. I'm sure other companies offer the same service,.
I have done this often, when I just needed one song. It's legal and that's another way you can buy a song for a choir member or song leader.
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Sis T I don't have a problem with the copywriting laws....
I can respect that...
but what I am saying is this:
If I have an Ipod or mp3 player... I should have the right to use my purchase for whatever playing device I choose to use it on...
---- IN related news
One analyst said it best: "The bad thing is that you are almost promoting what you are trying to protect against. You are upsetting the fan that went out and purchased the record. "
Columbia Records act Switchfoot(A Christian-based band), whose latest album, "Nothing Is Sound," is copy-protected recently took copy-protection defiance one step further. Band guitarist Tim Foreman posted on a Sony Music-hosted fan site a link to the software program CDEX, which disables the technology. The post has since been removed.
"We were horrified when we first heard about the new copy-protection policy," Foreman wrote in the September 14 post. "It is heartbreaking to see our blood, sweat and tears over the past two years blurred by the confusion and frustration surrounding new technology."
To add some minor injury to insult, EMI Christian Music Group had to recall copies of "Nothing Is Sound" that were shipped to Christian retailers. The EMI discs have incorrect DRM settings that do not allow consumers to rip or burn secure tracks.
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/10/04/music.copy.reut/index.html
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1. It is not illegal if you are burning a copy of a cd you purchased for your own personal use. For example, I buy cds for my kids and burn a copy, so that when they scratch their cd I'll have a back-up.
That's exactly what I do...except I convert mine to either 128kbps or 192kbps mp3 then put to data cds...so I get several at a time they can all of there instead wasting one CD for a exact backup...maybe you should try it that way..I have over 200 Gospel CDs alond and used about 50 data CDs FOR BACKUP!! :D :D :D
Yea. I copy all my CDs to my harddrive as MP3s at 256. I hate using discs!
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and once i buy the CD IT IS MINE!!! ... i can do what i want with it...
Not true, you're buying a license to use the CD. The license gives you certain rights under federal copyright laws. That statement above is overly broad.
If I have an Ipod or mp3 player... I should have the right to use my purchase for whatever playing device I choose to use it on...
That's probably OK under Fair Use. On the other hand, taking the CD and making copies for your buddies or for people on the Internet is NOT one of your rights.
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I convert mine to either 128kbps or 192kbps mp3 then put to data cds...
I rode the short bus to school...so in simple terms, could someone tell me how to do this??
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LOL...Short bus indeed, since it's soooooooo simple!
:wink:
All you have to do is open Windows Media Player, click on the Rip tab and then click the rip button.
If you want to change the format or other settings, you just go to the Tools menu, click on Options, and under the Rip Music tab, select your new settings.
See! Soooooooo easy!
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LOL...Short bus indeed,
LOL!! :lol:
Thanks!
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The fastest ripper I have is Realplayer...If you have a 52x cd speed then that cd can be done in under a minute...depending on the CPU speed of course. :wink:
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I use iTunes for ripping my library....
speaking of library, I get alot of gospel cd's from there. People have been doing that for years before napster.... hey let me borrow that cd to tape a copy
They expect the casual infringement, it was the large scale of the internet that really reached in the pocket.
I'm not condoning it just stating a fact.
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Somebody once said" My copyright is your right to copy".
It depends, some people don't mind if you copy their cds. If it says unauthorized duplication is prohibited, then it doesn't matter what kind of duplication it is. It is illegal.
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2. SJONATHAN02 -To burn a cd that you purchased, even if it is one song, to give to another person, including your your church, musicians or choir members breaks copyright laws, is illegal and thusly goes against the principles of God.
*with Bass in his voice* Lookahea, you ain't gonna put my business on blast like dat no mo' Aunt Madea or no Aunt Madea, "steel or no steel" ya got me!!!
*shakin' with fear* jus' playin'
Seriously, though Sis T., get off my pew. I am persuaded AND convinced. Quite honestly, I was doing it your way for a while during my tenure as MOM at my previous, but as another poster stated, my desire to do new songs in a timelier fashion propelled my sinful nature.
Thanks, Sis T. I'll keep it in mind from now on.
Lata
Jonathan
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*shakin' with fear* jus' playin'
LOL...Now, you KNOW she can't read anything that small!
J/K
:wink: :wink: :lol:
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*with Bass in his voice* Lookahea, you ain't gonna put my business on blast like dat no mo' Aunt Madea or no Aunt Madea, "steel or no steel" ya got me!!!
*shakin' with fear* jus' playin'
Seriously, though Sis T., get off my pew. I am persuaded AND convinced.....
LOL!!! :lol: :lol:
It its the Holy Spirit that convicts. He got to me, and I'm glad He got to you!!
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*shakin' with fear* jus' playin'
LOL...Now, you KNOW she can't read anything that small!
J/K
:wink: :wink: :lol:
LOL!! :lol: You know I had to go and get my Granny glasses!
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How about this? I wanted to get a copy of a tape I used to have but over time got misplaced and lost/or damaged. The tape is now out of print so someone who still had theirs burned a cd for me. Was that wrong? :?
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I sometimes make copies of cds and songs and I see no problems with that. I do not sell. I think copy infrigment should only count when there is money involved.
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How about this? I wanted to get a copy of a tape I used to have but over time got misplaced and lost/or damaged. The tape is now out of print so someone who still had theirs burned a cd for me. Was that wrong? :?
According to the laws in place, it is illegal if you got the copy from someone else. You are expected to purchase your own copy. If a copy is not available, you are to write for permission to copy a song.
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Burning is wrong and illegal just like getting ur donkey out of the ditch on the Sabbath...lol
people are a trip....
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Burning is wrong and illegal just like getting ur donkey out of the ditch on the Sabbath...lol
people are a trip....
That's an incorrect and extreme comparison.
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I am very surprised of the lack of education concerning this thread. If we ever want to move forward, we really need to educate ourself more. This is really ridiculous.
Burning CD's is against the law, plain and simple. Its not even a debate.
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I am very surprised of the lack of education concerning this thread. If we ever want to move forward, we really need to educate ourself more. This is really ridiculous.
Burning CD's is against the law, plain and simple. Its not even a debate.
Folks are trying to justify illegal activity. You just can't do it!!
I'm not suprised by the direction the thread is going. It just shows the spiritual bondage that people are keeping themselves tied up in. When you continue to make excuses for wrong doings that simply mean you don't want to be changed and delivered.
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I am very surprised of the lack of education concerning this thread. If we ever want to move forward, we really need to educate ourself more. This is really ridiculous.
Burning CD's is against the law, plain and simple. Its not even a debate.
Folks are trying to justify illegal activity. You just can't do it!!
I'm not suprised by the direction the thread is going. It just shows the spiritual bondage that people are keeping themselves tied up in. When you continue to make excuses for wrong doings that simply mean you don't want to be changed and delivered.
*singing* Yes, I'm a believer, Yes, I'm a believer :lol:
going into
*singing* I am persuaded, Lord to love you I have been changed by this great Gospel!
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I have been reading through this and this question may have been answered already, but I would like some clarification.
I am part of a small Praise&Worship team for our singles ministry (which is currently on hold right now), and what the approach has been we pick 5-6 songs we want to sing, then, whoever is responsible of putting the songs on CDs to distribute to the team, that person would buy the Split tracks/demo tracks of the songs and burn them on one CD and copies of that CD is made to distrubte to the team so they can learn their parts. We do not have a band (I am the only piano player for this team right now), so the team is singing with Split tracks/demo tracks for now.
Question: Is that illegal. If so, what would be the alternative, because I can easily hear the team protesting wanting to buy their own CDs of the performance tracks so they can learn the songs.
2nd part: Also 2 CDs are burned with the Demo/split tracks of the songs to give to the person who is playing these CDs on a master soundboard. The reason why it is 2 CDs is so the transition from one song to the other is easier.
Question: What would be the alternation for that person if it is illegal for us to burn the CDs for him so he can play the tracks on the sound board for us to sing along to?
Thanks for the feedback!
Andrea
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That's an incorrect and extreme comparison.
Not really my friend… This is a really pointless debate… and everyone have views…Left or Right… Personally if someone gets saved, healed or delivered from a burnt CD then.. I am sure God won’t revoke their salvation or restoration
I am very surprised of the lack of education concerning this thread. If we ever want to move forward, we really need to educate ourself more. This is really ridiculous.
Burning CD's is against the law, plain and simple. Its not even a debate.
Honestly I agree... but I see that peeps have strong convictions and thru my sarcasm, I don't want to encourage this type of activity...especially for profit… LET’S make that clear
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Well I have a question.
On my site - http://www.lifeinreturn.com - I have 3 radio blogs full of songs from CDs that I own. These are CDs I bought with my own $. Well they are available for listen on my website in my radio blogs.
Now, I have received emails from people who have told me how thankful they are that I have the radio blogs, and proceeding to tell me how much they have been blessed and ministered to because of the songs. Is this wrong ? I am not giving the music files away, they are not in mp3 format. They can't be ripped from my site. They are in a format that only the radio blog can read.
So... is that wrong ?
And with EVERY SINGLE CD that I purchase, I rip it immediately to my hard drive. I do this for many reasons:
1 - To preserve the CD. This way if it breaks or scratches, I have a backup.
2 - I have an MP3 player that I listen to around the house or while I am studying. I can add these MP3s to my player and listen to what I want when I want.
3 - If I have a certain playlist of songs that I want to listen to while on my computer, I can add them to Windows Media Player, and not have to worry about switching CD after CD after CD.
4 - My car radio has an MP3 player, so I can make a CD full of about 8 albums to listen to versus having to change my CDs while driving.
5 - Of course, the radio blogs on my website.
I have to say I am in agreeance with my boy Dre on this one.
And I do have a question to pose:
If a choir sings a Kirk song every Sunday at church, and gets invited to another church and they sing that same song... is it wrong because Kirk isn't getting paid royalties from their performance...
And friends have given me copies of CDs that they have burnt from CDs they rightfully own, so that I can evaluate and decide if I want to buy it.
Just my 2 pennies... now let me go and get my donkey out this ditch!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes, burning CD's is wrong, whatever the justification.
It matters not what personal convictions are. If a person really made you angry, you might feel completely justified in trying to knock him or her into next week . . . but feeling like they deserved it wouldn't keep you out of jail, because it is still assault.
It matters not if you are on your way to church and you are late. Speeding will still get you a ticket, because it is against the law and violates another person's right to a safe enviroment.
Imagine there is a car lot with lots of cars and vans for sale. You didn't want to buy a van, but you knew you could put it to good use. The owner of the car lot might not even know you took one van. If you steal one of those vans and use it to take people to church on Sunday and midweek Bible study, does that make your stealing the van alright?
What if a person gets saved and delivered at a service that they arrived to in that stolen van. Of course that person who was saved won't lose their salvation. But the van was still stolen, and the person who stole it needs to return it, buy it, or otherwise make it right!
If I am a baker and a person takes three dozen loaves of bread out of my store, it is theft. It doesn't matter if they use two dozen to feed the homeless. Of course those who had their stomachs filled aren't going to continue to be hungry because the bread was stolen. BUT IT WAS STILL THEFT. They still stole from me, and they need to make it right.
Copyright laws are in place to protect an artist from theft. If you were the recording artist and you needed to sell a certain amount of CD's so you can pay all the bills and record again, then people would change their tunes about burning CD's. Then they would see it as theft.
That is one of the primary reasons christian CD's are so expensive, everyone keeps burning copies. They say it is okay because they are "spreading the gospel" or "using it for someone else" But it is still theft, and that is why christian material is so high-priced . . . we are paying for someone else's theft!
Let's read and study the copyright laws and follow them, regardless of what personal convictions a person may have.
Be Blessed
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Amen BBOY!!!
We have all given the law and what God expects. People still want to justify their actions. Wrong is wrong....sin is sin....you can't dress it up and say you are sinning for the good.
We can go on and on with this, but in the end it is a matter of choice whether one chooses to do the right thing or chooses to do wrong and deal with the consequences.
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Well B-Boy here's a Question… for you
under the copyright law shouldn’t every tape ministry in America be sued for recording copywritten material and then selling it as their own...
(Now I know some churches cut the songs and have just the sermon…)
If we going to be nick pickey, shouldn't all the rules apply?
I mean even at secular concerts they tell us not to bring in video cameras or tape recorders...
AND TO BE CLEAR...
These are questions and replies to make one think... and not be an donkey
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So are we to throw our personal convictions out the door, Bboy ? SisterT, Do you think God will only use what methods YOU feel He should use ? That is what is wrong with a lot of things in the church these days. We think God should move in the way we think He should move, therefore we often block the move of God because WE limit Him.
As long as you're not selling these CDs for profit and bootlegging them... and so on... For all the reasons I named specifically in my post, I see nothing wrong with it.
Like Dre said...
This is a really pointless debate… and everyone have views…Left or Right… Personally if someone gets saved, healed or delivered from a burnt CD then.. I am sure God won’t revoke their salvation or restoration
True true.
So if someone hears a song on a burnt CD that a friend gave them, and that changes their heart towards God, and they get saved, well what... forget that ? Man, please, God works in ways that we could NEVER imagine. His ways are not like ours neither are His thoughts THANKFULLY. Just because you think He can't use a method to reach people does not mean He can't.
I say the above in love.
What I will pay attention to is what God tells me versus man because man is man and all men will die someday, so therefore I will listen to my Father. He is the end all be all... I respect that you guys have your convictions, but they are just that - your convictions. What may convict Bobby may not convict Becky down the street, but that is not to say they do not have equal faith and knowledge in our God...
But that is all I will say on this topic. :)
May God bless you all in Christ.
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We can go on and on with this, but in the end it is a matter of choice whether one chooses to do the right thing or chooses to do wrong and deal with the consequences.
Yeah, you are right, I am just goign to leave it alone but I'm really concerned with some of the ignorance that is running around here. People are saying what the feel as oppose to knowing what the law says. Its so sad.
We need to do more to educate our people better.
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This is For LifeINReturn and everyone
GOD's Standards OVERRIDES any personal Convictions!! Your convictions should line up with GOD's word. Yea true, a person may be blessed by a burnt CD you give them. But, as for you, YOU are in sin for giving it!! And, plus if the person know that receiving a burnt CD is wrong then they are are in sin just as bad!!
Why???? Because you know What's Right!
JAMES 4:7 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
THERE is no IFS, ANDS, Or BUTS. Let the LORD have his way SAINTS. Stop dipping, be save FORREAL. JUST DON'T DO IT. You can teach your praise team without burnt CDS. You can teach every part without Burnt CDs. All it take is a willing and obedient HEART and SACRIFICE. Salvation may be free, but you sho' do got to pay surcharges. Those surcharges are you giving your life totally to him. You don't have to do everything everyone else do. BE HOLY. BE SAVE. BE FREE IN GOD.
Don't You know you will eat the GOOD of the land if you just be OBEDIENT. Half of yall wondering why your music ministy aint coming forth. YOU AINT OBEDIENT. Some of us so wrapped up in mess, God is going to pour out Judgement. REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. TURN FROM YOUR WICKED WAYS!!!!
BE ENCOURAGE SAINTS, AND LETS BE SAVED, LIFE RIGHT AND WATCH GOD BLESS YOUR RIGHT!!!
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Also while I am on my soap box...
If you think that God's hand is on you because you gave a burnt cd away and they got bless or saved by it and everything is alright, THINK AGAIN SAINTS!!!
MATT 6:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Don't do so called great things for GOd and end up in hell anyway because You did not do things GOD's way nor live GODLY. Don't let GOD use you then loose ya. Depart from sin so he wont depart from you. God has no respect of persons. Shall we continue in sin?? No! God loves you!!!!!! HE wants the best from you. But if you continue to do things God is not please with You are going to hell with a scholarship with free room and board. Not saying we all prefect, but where is your heart in the matter. Some of the replies I have seen on this make it seem like some of you all going to do what you going to do anyway no matter what anyone tell. Lets be save! Thank you here's your receipt!
Matt 6:23 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
LOVE YALLL!!!
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I have to agree with the last couple of posts - God's Word has the final say over man's opinion, personal convictions, or whatever.
I over the years have enjoyed the ministry through song of Kirk Franklin, Israel Houghton, Martha Munizzi, Donnie McClurkin, the list can go on. Those I have mentioned by name and others are songwriters as well as singers. I don't want any of them getting "gyped" out of their rightful share of royalities, and burning CDs, from what I have been reading here, does that.
I may have missed this due to the debate going on here, so this may have to be a separate thread - how does one go around about having the Praise team learn their different parts in the songs they are going to sing without having to burn CDs? Because I know some people are going to be hollering about having to buy their own copies if they have to! :?
Thanks!
Andrea
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.... how does one go around about having the Praise team learn their different parts in the songs they are going to sing without having to burn CDs? Because I know some people are going to be hollering about having to buy their own copies if they have to! :?
Yes Andrea you missed it. If you check out page 1 of this thread I listed suggestions. Also in another comment I suggested downloading songs from Wal-Mart for $ .88.
It may benefit you to go back and read the posts.
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This is weird, I am doing a persuasive speech 2moro and was goin to do something in this area...I mainly goin to focus in downloading music/movies so this thread may help me for my speech :D
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LISA E
Sister T made good suggestion such as go to walmart.com and buy the song itself and pass it out. Also, you may want to question the effectiveness of passing out cd no the less buying them. I say because, when I used to pass out copies, no one listened to them anyway. And, if they did it was just to enjoy the music not for parts. That maybe something you may want to look at. I know it may not be the same for all praise groups but I know it was for mine!!!! Keep up the work!
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And here is the response to the above questions, which are really good questions. I know that the questions are posed to make one think, which is a good thing.
Now, to answer the question . . . which, as I said, was a good one and very thought provoking.
Being guilty of wrongdoing has nothing to do with feeling like you were wrong. Guilt is a fact, not a feeling.
Part of the problem here may be that many just simply don't understand that music is the legal property of the artist.
I might feel justified in stealing bread to feed the poor, but that doesn't mean that it is ok. Whether I feel guilty about it or not doesn't change the fact that I stole what doesn't belong to me.
The right to reproduce copyrighted music belongs only to the artist. Therefore, it is theft to reproduce it . . . whether a person feels like it or not. Whether they get caught or not. Whether someone understands it, agrees with it, or will ever follow it or not.
The copyright laws are placed, as the Bible applies in this context, to protect the artists who make their living by recording. It is there for their good. Copyright law says that to reproduce music is theft, because once a person creates a song it is their legal property.
As stated before, the reason why Christian CD's are so expensive is that many people are bootlegging . . . and it is illegal. We are all paying for the theft of a few!
Now, to the question of whether or not tapes with the gospel should or should not be sold. :D
Is the Gospel their legal property? Or anyone's legal property?
Be Blessed
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Did you know you can buy one song from a cd at Wal-Mart.com and download it for $ 0.88. I'm sure other companies offer the same service,.
I have done this often, when I just needed one song. It's legal and that's another way you can buy a song for a choir member or song leader.
Thanks SisterT, I've been struggling with this issue for a while. As a songwriter, I understand the idea that people making multiple copies of my music to teach their choir cuts into my profit, and most of the people doing it are the people in the church, who also make up the largest demographic buying my music. But as a church musician, I know how expensive it would be to buy copies of multiple cds for everyone who needs one. Our church has five musicians in the band, five different choirs, and three services per Sunday. On any given Sunday three choirs will sing at least three songs apiece. If each choir sings three new songs by three different artists...well, you do the math. The $.88 per song per copy would be a lot less expensive, and we'd be legal. I'll bring it up to our Director of Music tonight!
P.S. I've heard of blanket licenses for sheet music that churches can purchase to make multiple copies of sheet music, but I don't know if it applies to CDs as well. Anyone know anything about it?
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First: Sister T thanks, I went back and reviewed your comments and I also took a quick look at Walmart.com. Another good point was made about the effectiveness of burning CDs if the praise team is not even listening to them anyway for their parts.
Our Praise team is on hold right now due to various reasons (e.g. people not showing up for rehearsals! :? ) so I'm not sure what will be the direction of this praise team.
Second: I remembered one website a friend of mine pointed out to me that's helpful: Christian Copyright Licensing International. I found a lot of good information there: http://www.ccli.com/UnitedStates.cfm
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LisaE
You are a great person!
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I want to validate myself. If anyway my comments sound harsh or offended anyone, I apologize. I did not what to seem "Holy art thou". Eventhough I was serious in my comments, sometimes we can say things that protray the wrong image especially church folk. I said everything in love. God Bless! :D :lol: 8) :P
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I just say this...I make a mixed CD for my musicians if we have a concert, I dont see anything wrong with that. MAybe it is, but I dont see anything wrong withthat
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you bought the CD you can do whatever you please with it.
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Dooley
Read through the past post. The responses will give you vital information concering buring cd's and how Christians should respond. Also, the post, especially thoes of Sister T, identify excellent methods of legally aquiring music for praise teams and muscians.
If you follow them, the satisfaction of knowing God's approval is on your methods of musical teaching is priceless!!![/u]
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Brutha....this just isnt true.
People we really need to educate ourself before we speak on things.
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I just say this...I make a mixed CD for my musicians if we have a concert, I dont see anything wrong with that. MAybe it is, but I dont see anything wrong withthat
If you have read page after page that it is illegal to do such a thing, and be given a site where you can read up on the law and still state "I don't see anything wrong with that", I hope you realize how much influence Satan has in your life.
If you can continue saying I don't see nothing wrong with doing what IS ILLEGAL.......my prayers are with you.
Stealing is stealing.
Lisa & Andrea, I'm glad the information was helpful to you.
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Brutha....this just isnt true.
People we really need to educate ourself before we speak on things.
Daryl, based on some of the post that have been made one the last two pages, I believe there are some that have not READ what has been discussed and are posting out of ignorance, meaning they just don' t know any better.
Brutha's statement and Dooleys statement are the lastest two that have already been discussed and proved by law to be erroneous statements. A few other statements have been mixed with the "what I feel" opinions.
When it comes to the law and the principles of God, "what I feel" don't matter. We need to learn how to submit to those in authority over us. When we participate in any type of illegal activity, we are disobeying God.
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As stated before, the reason why Christian CD's are so expensive is that many people are bootlegging . . . and it is illegal. We are all paying for the theft of a few!
BBoy i partially agree with you on that...
What i have to say really don't deal with the topic of burning...so i will hit it up in a new topic...
As for the theft analogy… I do believe that God is a “God of order” and he will make provisions that will even confound the wise to get his will done. (squalling… “ Cause He made a way out of no way” well sir... What was that way???...lol)
As for rendering what is Caesar what’s his…(law of the land) I come to believe, provisions will always be made… from plain ole favor, all the way to the miraculous coins in the fish mouth… so yea… there is some gray to what we call "provisional" or "miraculous"
i will address what i feel about "Christian Music sales" in another topic...
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dang Sister T just cut me up and send me to Hell then. DANG! :lol: Anyways. I do not condone just burning a whole CD and giving it away to someone because they dont buy them. I just bought YouthFul Praise, Hezekiah Walker, and a few other CD's. However, the easiest way for me to make some things for a concert, is to just copy them to a CD for my musicians. If God sends me to hell for burning a CD, then I will be salty. I dont think its stealing because half the time after i learn songs off of a CD for a concert I never listen to it again or i even throw it away, or erase the CD and put something else on it for the next concert...
So I will say this, I BUY my CD's mainly because I like to read whats in the CD booklet. But I copy practice CD's. Im sure I wont go to Hell for that. A
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Dooley
I understand ya in every area. But no copies means no copies. No reason justifies copying except only allowed by law. As innocent our reasons may seem rather church reasons or not, it is still wrong and unlawful. Also as said in your post, you said "half the time" you get rid of the cds. 99 1/2 wont do. My suggestion is the just do as SIS T said. If you have to burn something, Go to walmart.com and buy it. It's only 88 cents. As for going to hell...well....i'll just say just do what's right and you won't even have to worry about that.
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dang Sister T just cut me up and send me to Hell then. DANG! :lol:
Reread my post...I didn't send you to Hell. :lol: I am not the one qualified to do such. I stated, when you know something is wrong and choose to continue to do wrong you are under Satanic influence. Making that copy of a song to give to someone is in fact illegal. It matters not what you think, it's the law...that's all I'm trying to communicate.
Man, if you are going to hell over burning a cd, then I'm in big trouble. I'm not SINLESS, I just SIN LESS. I thank God for new mercy and grace each day!!!
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In response to the post about GOD making a way when there was no way . . .
Listen, I understand. Really I do. But GOD is Holy. GOD will never side with what is wrong, because then HE would not be Holy.
GOD never gave anybody favor so they could keep doing wrong. GOD gives favor so they can start doing right.
Just because GOD doesn't strike someone down doesn't mean that what they did was alright with HIM.
Copyright laws are put in place to protect the artist. That is why we don't burn CD's, it is stealing what they worked for. There is no way the artist can be present with everyone who baught their CD to turn them in for bootlegging, so the laws of the land say clearly "Unauthorized reproduction is prohibited and it against the law. All rights protected"
That is why I am REALLY against making copies of the instructional videos that brothers and sisters put out. They get a vision to help the Body of Christ, make a video, and of all people the chruch . . . THE CHURCH starts stealing from our own brothers by not buying their own copies . . . they start dubbing them! 8O The devil is a liar!
Through the loss of revenue needed to pay for studio time, production time, etc . . . they can't make another video. Or they have to charge more than they want to because they know that there will be some bootlegging going on. So we all suffer.
Many people do try to find grey areas . . . case in point, this thread. We know it is illegal, but oh well . . .
Many people do the same with ministry. As long as they are not the musician or director, then they feel like they are justified to talk about what needs to change, what is wrong, what needs to be done differently . . . and they see nothing wrong with it. The Bible CLEARLY says to beware of idle words because you will account for every one of them . . . and the love thinks no evil, but so what . . . it is their church, they give in the offering, and they feel like they should have their say. They see nothing wrong with it.
Then they become MOM or director, and those same words now almost make them want to cry. They want to quit, because now they are on the other end. It's not right now that they are suffering for it. Now something needs to change, and how in the world can they call themselves saved and be so evil . . . etc, etc etc . . .
Same with this. The people who bootlegg are not the artist who is losing MUCH money, and so they see nothing wrong with it. The Bible CLEARLY says that we are to be subject to the higher powers for they watch for our good, and the powers that be are ordained by GOD. but so what . . . they feel like they have a right to do what they want with what they bought. So what if the law clearly says no, so what if it is theft. So what?
What about if you were the artist going bankrupt, or can't record again, or has to work another job so you can afford to record again? What if it is your CD who can't pay back the company who backed you and whom you owe? And you know it is because of church people bootlegging? Now YOU are suffering, so it's different now. Now you're ready to say who is saved and who isn't saved, how can church people steal like that and still shout anyway . . . etc, etc, . . .
Yes, many people do lie on GOD and hint at "He made a way out of no way," when they actually did what was wrong. But I want to be blessed. I don't decide what is right or wrong by what someone else did, or even by how I feel about it or how I see things.
It is theft.
Theft.
Theft.
And theft will never be right.
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The continuance of the thread startles me. When I started this tread, the actual number of the responses were unprecedented in my mind. Sadly and seemingly, the ideas and convictions of burning cds seem intact, unchanged despite concrete scriptural and governmental accounts. This exposes the unavailability the body of Christ posses to transport into position when God corrects and rebukes, utterly despicable. 60+ posts, which 70% gives accounts relinquishing cd burning. Yet, this tread perpetuates deeming no end in sight. Will we continue to engage in this debate? Will it demand 60 more posts before a conclusion can be conjured up? God Forbids! Cd burning is wrong, a rhetorical statement, no comment needed. If you have needs for practice cds, follow Sis T advice. Do what's right so God can bless you right. Lets move on from this "milkish debate" and move on to greater "more meaty" ventures.
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BBOY well said, and to add what I already posted, 'cause folk are just not reading what has been posted:
Imagine if someone was stealing a huge portion of your hard earned weekly paycheck...you were suppose to make $5000, but the theives left you with $1000.
Would you sit back and say "I don't see nothing wrong with that?"
Would you want it to continue happening because you still have enough money to "get by" on?
Most importantly, do you think God is pleased with your behavior...Is God leading you to illegally burn cds OR are you under satanic influence? It's got to be one or the other
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The continuance of the thread startles me. When I started this tread, the actual number of the responses were unprecedented in my mind.
I would say this is a hot topic because it is the supporting backbone of most music ministries... everyone is indirectly affected by this practice in some form or another....
Yea.. and Sister T.. you know most people don't read past the first post and the last page... :lol:
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Very interesting topic. This also a very important topic. I think the majority on the board can admit to accepting or burning cd's at one time or another. BOTTOM LINE. burnding cd's is wrong.
Just to think outside the box a little bit. Have you ever heard of a gospel artist attacking fans for "bootlegging?" I remember a few years ago, a popular rock band sued fans for burning and downloading illegal copies of music. Secular artist will also publicly promote their album ( uh, CD) as well as encourage fans to spend their money at the store and not burn copies. I haven't seen nor heard of a gospel artist publicly protest against cd's being burned. Why? Marketing and promotions!!!
Most companies allocate about 10% of their earnings toward marketing. Night clubs pay as much as $60,000 or more to have a artist come and sit in their club.( not perform, sit!!!) Record companies also pay large sums of money to radio stations to have their material aired.
Gospel artist? Their target audience definently makes up the body of the church. Their is no better marketing than free marketing. For example, M.O.M. burns cd for band. Song is taught to choir. Choir sings the song to an audience of 300-400. And there you have it. The target audience has been reached. The church kind of serves as a radio station to meet the masses of people that the artist wants to promote his/her music to.
(This is just something to ponder. Im not saying this is exactly what happens. Any of the items that I mentioned could be considered variable.)
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Your right dredakyst. Undoubtably, this topic steams with furation. I just seem to see a cycle. For new posters, reading previous posts would give you a tangable heads up. Questions and comments many new posts ask or say previous posts have answered or touched. That way, some repetive questions can be answer quickly. Ye,t your questions matter reguardless. Some new and intriguing thoughts may develop.
For Jones
Are you incinuating burning cds for choirs promote artist?
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Well it is a known fact that we hardly support our own... Secular artist have fan bases... we are told not to strongly support our types of artist in that manner... cause you are putting them on a pedestal and that’s a sin…. But you go on Destiny’s Child Fan sites and you will see downloads full albums and rare footage (vids, pics) but yet they are still multi-platinum.
This argument can go down to lack of label support, or to the quality of production…
But I just feel like it is a disconnect between The Christian artist and the listeners…
Why are Kids at my church parking lot listening to Charlie Wilson and not Kirk Ki-Ki or Tye.... and out of all Secular Artists... A Gap Band Member... but yet it goes on across america...
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People who don’t want to be burdened with buying tracks come up with the most creative, yet wrong, justifications for their behavior.
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Your right dredakyst. Undoubtably, this topic steams with furation. I just seem to see a cycle. For new posters, reading previous posts would give you a tangable heads up. Questions and comments many new posts ask or say previous posts have answered or touched. That way, some repetive questions can be answer quickly. Ye,t your questions matter reguardless. Some new and intriguing thoughts may develop.
For Jones
Are you incinuating burning cds for choirs promote artist?
I WAS BASICALLY CREATING A THEORY BASED ON GOSPEL ARTIST'S LACK OF CONCERN IN REGARDS TO THIER MATERIAL BEING ILLEGALLY DUPLICATED IN OUR CHURCHES BY MUSIC MINISTRIES. iN COMPARISON TO SECULAR ARTIST, GOSPEL ARTIST ARE LESS AGRESSIVE IN PROTECTING THEIR MATERIAL.
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One of my favorite Bible teachers has video tapes of Bible teaching sessions that people could purchase if they wanted their own copy to keep.
Or they could rent it for a period of time and send it back.
It got back to this Bible teacher that some people were dubbing copies after renting them.
She said on TV, "Folks, now you know that is illegal."
Those who were dubbing copies were making it harder for those who had little or no money to buy or rent their own copy, because the ministry still had to pay for reproduction of the videos, pay the technicians and those who work in the ministry.
See who we hurt when we burn materials and bootleg?
One, we hurt the servants of GOD who are laboring to help us. They have a right to make their living by the gospel, and we are stealing that from them.
Two, the people who need it the most and can barely afford to get it are now in a position where they can't get to it at all! All because some people want to bootleg.
A family member of mine used to go to a church that had a bread wagon there on Sundays. The bread wagon was filled with bread and cakes for those on a fixed income, or those who needed it to make their food go farther . . . single mothers with lots of children, parents who lost their jobs, etc. There wasn't anyone to check off names at that bread wagon, it was done on the honor system to help saints who needed it.
I remember thinking what a shame it would be for people who really didn't need it to get some just because it was there. As a result, there would be less for those who really needed that to fix sandwiches for the kids, or who needed it to make meatloaf and make the hamburger go farther and feed five instead of three, etc.
I'm young, strong, in perfect health and working full-time. That bread isn't for me . . . it's for people who will go hungry without it. So I didn't need anyone to tell me that . . . integrity told me that.
Sometimes we don't know whom we are hurting. Let's walk in integrity, saints.
Be Blessed :D
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Anyways, God is good
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Your right dredakyst. Undoubtably, this topic steams with furation. I just seem to see a cycle. For new posters, reading previous posts would give you a tangable heads up. Questions and comments many new posts ask or say previous posts have answered or touched. That way, some repetive questions can be answer quickly. Ye,t your questions matter reguardless. Some new and intriguing thoughts may develop.
For Jones
Are you incinuating burning cds for choirs promote artist?
I WAS BASICALLY CREATING A THEORY BASED ON GOSPEL ARTIST'S LACK OF CONCERN IN REGARDS TO THIER MATERIAL BEING ILLEGALLY DUPLICATED IN OUR CHURCHES BY MUSIC MINISTRIES. iN COMPARISON TO SECULAR ARTIST, GOSPEL ARTIST ARE LESS AGRESSIVE IN PROTECTING THEIR MATERIAL.
I see your point Concerning cd burning, the counteractive aggressiveness secular artists portray meniscules the endeavors gospel artist engage in to protect their music.
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I SAY... WE DON'T NEED NO WATER LET THE CD COPIES BURN.
PRAISE JESUS...
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Don't mind her, she just playing folk....LOL....tring to start up stuff....
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JUST KIDDING...
I BURN CD'S EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. WHEN I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BUY A CD AND A FRIEND HAS IT I WILL SAVE IT TO MY PC AND BURN A COPY LATER. I REALLY DON'T GET WHY STORES STILL SELL BURNERS OR WHY COMPUTER COMPANIES SELL THEM IF ITS SUCH A HUGE PROBLEM.
I DO LIKE HOW MARY-MARY PUT A 3 COPY LIMIT ON THEIR CD... I THINK THAT WAS NICE AND SMART.
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I REALLY DON'T GET WHY STORES STILL SELL BURNERS OR WHY COMPUTER COMPANIES SELL THEM IF ITS SUCH A HUGE PROBLEM.
Handguns are designed for the specific intent of killing people. Just because a certain technology is readily available doesn’t mean you may use that technology to break the law. By the way, CD burners have many legal uses, such as backing up hard drives, transferring files between computers, etc.
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It is absolutely wrong. It is literally taking the food out of the mouths of the artists themselves and it is illegal which goes against the Laws (thou shalt not steal).
Now if you own it already and make copies for your own use (i.e. makeing compilations or backup dics then that is one thing).
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i should have posted this earlier...but as stated before...
under the copyright law... you can't even preform songs at your church without permission (see below)
So everyone that is still tripping out... all of it is wrong...(burning,tape ministry sales, and the A&B selection) unless you have express written consent.
What Copyright Law Covers
According to the U.S. Copyright Office, copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code) to the authors of "original works of authorship," including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works.
Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and authorize others to do the following:
-To reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords;
-To prepare derivative works based upon the work;
-To distribute copies or phonorecords of the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.
-To perform the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographed works, pantomines, and motion pictures, and other audiovisual works;
-To display the copyrighted works publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographed works, pantomines, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work; and
-In the case of sound recordings, to perform the work publicly by means of digital audio transmission.
The law prohibits anyone from infringing on these exclusive rights without first receiving permission from the owner. These rights, however, are not unlimited in scope. Sections 107 through 121 of the 1976 Copyright Act establish limitations on these rights.
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and all the Tight line Ministers of Music out there... I guess this is what u need
Church Copyright License
http://www.ccli.com/whoarewe/CopyrightLicense.cfm
Forgive/Correct me if I missed any of the details as stated above.
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and all the Tight line Ministers of Music out there... I guess this is what u need
Church Copyright License
[url]http://www.ccli.com/whoarewe/CopyrightLicense.cfm[/url]
Forgive/Correct me if I missed any of the details as stated above.
Yes, I knew that, but did you know that it is very easy to secure permission.
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i read in a song book that stated these laws.... it surprised me... all I ever did was show up for choir rehearsal and Sunday morning service
but honestly... i would stop supporting that artist if they didn't let me sing their song in church..... be like "what kinda of ministry is that... get out of here devil"
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and all the Tight line Ministers of Music out there... I guess this is what u need
Church Copyright License
[url]http://www.ccli.com/whoarewe/CopyrightLicense.cfm[/url]
Forgive/Correct me if I missed any of the details as stated above.
Settle down tiger.
That is a general license that is NOT put out by the federal government. It is NOT directed to actual performance, but rather directed toward copying the music. I question whether such a license is necessary and whether it will even hold up in court.
More importantly, the copyright law you posted has an exception for giving performances. See the bottom of the law you posted. The relevant exception here is 17 U.S.C. 110 (3):
"Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright: ... (3) performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work or of a dramatico-musical work of a religious nature, or display of a work, in the course of services at a place of worship or other religious assembly".
Performing in church is OK bro. You heard!!!
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Well what i'm stating is out of love.. and not to challenge anyone.... so i am not posting with an attitude...hence the phase "forgive/correct" i am learning the process just like everyone else... sorry if I offended you ;)
To my understanding, the "CCLI" is a service that will to the legwork for
you...
however what i copy/pasted is from
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
as well as
http://www.ccli.com/whoarewe/CopyrightIssues.cfm
So what we have learned is this…. 110(3) allows the A&B selection…
However... what about the Tape Ministry sales... doesn’t that fall in the same category as burning…
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Well what i'm stating is out of love.. and not to challenge anyone.... so i am not posting with an attitude...hence the phase "forgive/correct" i am learning the process just like everyone else... sorry if I offended you ;)
To my understanding, the "CCLI" is a service that will to the legwork for
you...
however what i copy/pasted is from
[url]http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html[/url]
as well as
[url]http://www.ccli.com/whoarewe/CopyrightIssues.cfm[/url]
So what we have learned is this…. 110(3) allows the A&B selection…
However... what about the Tape Ministry sales... doesn’t that fall in the same category as burning…
Don't worry. I'm not arguing. I was just trying to be a little humorous, while trying to provide correct information.
Regarding the Tape Ministry, it depends on what's taped. It has to be treated case by case. I can't answer a general question like that.
In the mean time, you understand that performance is OK, right?
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To my understanding, the "CCLI" is a service that will to the legwork for you...
Correct, but you may not need that license they have created, depending on what you're trying to do with the copyrighted music. What are you trying to do with copyrighted music exactly?
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Cool! I am with cha... :)
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If you burn a Cd w/o permission from the artist, you're going to hell.
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If you burn a Cd w/o permission from the artist, you're going to hell.
Ya'll please don't go start debating this. It's time to end this discussion. Nothing new is being said...just the same old same old...so don't ya'lll get worked up over this.
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Thank you Sister T!!! Eventhough I started this post....I barly look at this thread anymore...It is time to move on.....The law has been posted.....do what's right.....and lets move on the greater better things.....WHo has the chords to Yes by S. Glory
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However... what about the Tape Ministry sales... doesn’t that fall in the same category as burning…[/quote]
I think that if a Choir does a Music Tape using other artist's music and sales it.....It is wrong. Usually, if you look at TBN. A choir can perform a song on TV , but if they perform on TV with like TD JAKES and you buy the tape of it....YOu will only get the message not the Choir.......You can perform....not sell...
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...YOu will only get the message not the Choir.......You can perform....not sell...
We have had artists like Yoland Adams, and Dorinda Clark Cole to sing at our church. People quickly purchased the tapes because they thought the artist would be on it, after all, they were on the big screen monitors during service. A lot of folk were disappointed because the artists were not on the tape.
This thread proves that not only people but churches are ignorant of the law. Thank God the owners of songs are not bringing charges. Can you imagine how busy the court system would be! :lol:
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Ummmm........
The basic applicable legal code is buried under Section 110 of the Copyright law of 1976
(17 U.S.C. §110[3]). Section 110 states that, without fear of breaking the law, churches
may
1. Perform non-dramatic literary or musical works and religious dramatic and musical works.
2. Display individual works of a non-sequential nature (17 U.S.C. ?101) during services at a
house of worship or other religious assembly.
So stop spreading rumors............ 8O
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WHo has the chords to Yes by S. Glory
Check the keyboard room. It's posted by Brutha 28
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Jmanley1116, I beat you to the punch (see my post above)...good lookin' out though.
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playhear, I realized that after I posted. Sorry about that. Well at least you got confirmation :lol: (not that it was needed).
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So stop spreading rumors............ 8O
What rumors and who are you refering to.......
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It is absolutely wrong. It is literally taking the food out of the mouths of the artists themselves and it is illegal which goes against the Laws (thou shalt not steal).
Now if you own it already and make copies for your own use (i.e. makeing compilations or backup dics then that is one thing).
Not out the Artist mouths. Not at all. The artist are going to get paid regardless. It is however taking money out of the average worker who get laid off because sales are down. From the mass producer assembly line worker to the Walmart employee. Higher ups dont suffer. Its the little people that do.
I used to play for a church were all the musicians played by ear. Guess how they learned the songs for rehearsal? They all got burned cds. Wrong? Not at all. We need to check our hearts people and not let a legal technicallity get in the way of Ministry. It wasnt wrong when all the choirs members got degraded cassette tape copys of a song to learn for Sunday but now that technology has allowed us to make "Perfect Digital Copies" its an issue. And Yes...it is an issue if those copies keep you from buying the actual CD.
For the M.O.M.s: Do Gods work.
Dont let burned copys of Sundays list be an issue. Winning Souls is #1
For all other team members: If you like the album,buy it. Who knows a song may touch your heart that you could present to the M.O.M. Maybe youll get a solo. :P
For everybody else: Dont Steal. If you own an album and you want to bless someone with a song from an album that has blessed you, go buy the album for them. You will appear more thoughtful.
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ltljake's post is a shining of example of someone who made up their mind before reading this thread, then posted illegal advice anyway. ltljake's post is also a perfect example of why I believe the gospel community jacks tracks more than the secular community. That type of thought process is one reason gospel CD's tend to cost more than secular CD's. Unfortunately, such thinking has got to be discouraging to gospel artists trying to make a living in the industry.
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ltljake's post is a shining of example of someone who made up their mind before reading this thread, then posted illegal advice anyway. ltljake's post is also a perfect example of why I believe the gospel community jacks tracks more than the secular community. That type of thought process is one reason gospel CD's tend to cost more than secular CD's. Unfortunately, such thinking has got to be discouraging to gospel artists trying to make a living in the industry.
:roll: Hmmmmm...Never mind.
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No disrespect to the Artist. No one deserves to be stolen from, but I will stick by what I said about checking your own heart. You should support the music industry by buying music and not stealing, and No playhear, Gospel music doesnt cost more than other music because its Jacked more. I bought Mary Marys latest cd for $9.99 at Walmart. I dont mean to cause an argument, nor do I mean to hide behind Ministry as justification for stealing, but Ill say it again. We need to check our hearts. If we want to be blessed with more of what today's Gospel artist are doing, we need to support them by buying there music. If you feel convicted about getting next sundays list burned on CD for you to learn(and I dont know anyone that does) learn the music and give the CD back.
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ltljake, almost every assumption you've made is factually incorrect. Have some self-respect and respect for others. If you want to wander about making decisions based on false assumptions, then that's all on you. Don't just make up stuff and spread your false information around like it's fact.
Here are some facts you should know so you can speak with knowledge and have people pay attention to you:
Fact #1: Gospel CD's are more expensive on average than secular CD's.
Fact #2: Copying copyrighted music for others is illegal, and the furtherance of gospel is no justification for breaking that law.
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ltljake, almost every assumption you've made is factually incorrect. Have some self-respect and respect for others. If you want to wander about making decisions based on false assumptions, then that's all on you. Don't just make up stuff and spread your false information around like it's fact.
Here are some facts you should know so you can speak with knowledge and have people pay attention to you:
Fact #1: Gospel CD's are more expensive on average than secular CD's.
Fact #2: Copying copyrighted music for others is illegal, and the furtherance of gospel is no justification for breaking that law.
Fact #3: This argument stops here. Be Blessed.
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if you bought the cd it is yours. you CAN do what you want to with it as long as you are not making a profit from it. you can make copies as long as you don't sell them.
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if you bought the cd it is yours. you CAN do what you want to with it as long as you are not making a profit from it. you can make copies as long as you don't sell them.
THis is evidence of why so many people are not successful in life. They simply do not read the information that has already been presented to them and respond out of ignorance. It is sad when Christian do not arm themselves.
People perish for a lack of knowledge.
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if you bought the cd it is yours. you CAN do what you want to with it as long as you are not making a profit from it. you can make copies as long as you don't sell them.
THis is evidence of why so many people are not successful in life. They simply do not read the information that has already been presented to them and respond out of ignorance. It is sad when Christian do not arm themselves.
People perish for a lack of knowledge.
True, this thread is not an opinion thread. Many folks are simply not getting it.
It's discouraging to spend time on a post, just to find out later that the folks who need to be reading the posts aren't reading the posts. I don't think I could ever be a preacher. I wouldn't have the patience, just being honest.
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We can do some things legally if we're willing to pay a little money.
http://www.ccli.com/Visitors/FAQ.cfm#rehearsal
There is some interesting information on the above link.
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http://www.cmpamusic.org/html/main.isx?sub=19
More links about getting legal.
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(By the way, I also don't issue out typed lyrics of the song. It's a hinderance to memorization):
Hmm, I never thought about that?
1. Work harder at learning a song BEFORE rehearsal. Know all the choir parts and have all parts (Tenor, Alto, Soprano) written out before rehersal. When the choir sees that you are prepared and ready in rehearsal, it will illiminate a lot of "challenging" attitudes.
Excellent, advice. But, what do you do - if you don't do the above really well. We have a tiny church. Our musician has no idea how to do parts, and we don't have a choir director for the adult choir. I'm one of the youth choir directors - and I assure you, if I don't see the music written out, breaking a song into parts is beyond my ability. My husband, the other youth choir director, can --> and is more musically inclined, but says simply we don't have the voices to do parts anyway. We could certainly be more prepared though.
2. Don't rush learning a song. Take your time and teach what the lyrics mean. The choir will better appreciate and comminucate more effectively what they are singing.
Good advice. I "fuss" about this one quite abit. We don't have to learn a song one day and sing it the next. But, I'm usually vetoed. And, I so hate sounding badly.
3. Work with lead singers one on one. Allow them to listen to cds only during the rehearsal time. Encourage them to bring a tape recorder so that they can tape themselves during the rehearsal time. They will have something to listen to and practice with prior to Sunday.
We have got to get more experienced people, somehow.
4. Encourage the choir to strive for excellence. I have taught songs with leads to the choir without them ever listening to a tape. It can be done. You are the leading, you must apply yourself.
So, true.
5. This should have been first..... PRAY, and then pray some more. I really don't believe we in the Music Ministry Pray enough. Pray for God's anointing and guidance.
Perhaps, this gives me a good game plan for Saturday Morning. Thank you.
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True, this thread is not an opinion thread. Many folks are simply not getting it.
It's discouraging to spend time on a post, just to find out later that the folks who need to be reading the posts aren't reading the posts. I don't think I could ever be a preacher. I wouldn't have the patience, just being honest.
I agree with you Playhear, I dont think I could be a Pastor
I would have more respect for someone that said "Well, I burn CD's ecause I need the music, I know its wrong but I do it anyways".
But when people continue to say ignorant stuff like "Well, I brought it, I can do what I want with it", thats just plain ignorance.
As you can tell, I have little tolerence for people that refuse to educate themselves, God help me. :D
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I would have more respect for someone that said "Well, I burn CD's ecause I need the music, I know its wrong but I do it anyways".
me too, much more respect
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(By the way, I also don't issue out typed lyrics of the song. It's a hinderance to memorization):
Hmm, I never thought about that?
1. Work harder at learning a song BEFORE rehearsal. Know all the choir parts and have all parts (Tenor, Alto, Soprano) written out before rehersal. When the choir sees that you are prepared and ready in rehearsal, it will illiminate a lot of "challenging" attitudes.
Excellent, advice. But, what do you do - if you don't do the above really well. We have a tiny church. Our musician has no idea how to do parts, and we don't have a choir director for the adult choir. I'm one of the youth choir directors - and I assure you, if I don't see the music written out, breaking a song into parts is beyond my ability. My husband, the other youth choir director, can --> and is more musically inclined, but says simply we don't have the voices to do parts anyway. We could certainly be more prepared though.
2. Don't rush learning a song. Take your time and teach what the lyrics mean. The choir will better appreciate and comminucate more effectively what they are singing.
Good advice. I "fuss" about this one quite abit. We don't have to learn a song one day and sing it the next. But, I'm usually vetoed. And, I so hate sounding badly.
3. Work with lead singers one on one. Allow them to listen to cds only during the rehearsal time. Encourage them to bring a tape recorder so that they can tape themselves during the rehearsal time. They will have something to listen to and practice with prior to Sunday.
We have got to get more experienced people, somehow.
4. Encourage the choir to strive for excellence. I have taught songs with leads to the choir without them ever listening to a tape. It can be done. You are the leading, you must apply yourself.
So, true.
5. This should have been first..... PRAY, and then pray some more. I really don't believe we in the Music Ministry Pray enough. Pray for God's anointing and guidance.
Perhaps, this gives me a good game plan for Saturday Morning. Thank you.
1. Pray
2. Pray to God and ask Him to stretch you in this area concerning listening to and picking out parts. Remember what is impossible with man is possible with God.
3. Continue to be the voice of reason as it pertains to taking time to learn a song and allowing it to minister to your choir frst so that it can minister to God's people.
Pray this helps.
Jonathan
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In response to vwebster
(By the way, I also don't issue out typed lyrics of the song. It's a hinderance to memorization):
Hmm, I never thought about that?
1. Work harder at learning a song BEFORE rehearsal. Know all the choir parts and have all parts (Tenor, Alto, Soprano) written out before rehersal. When the choir sees that you are prepared and ready in rehearsal, it will illiminate a lot of "challenging" attitudes.
Excellent, advice. But, what do you do - if you don't do the above really well. We have a tiny church. Our musician has no idea how to do parts, and we don't have a choir director for the adult choir. I'm one of the youth choir directors - and I assure you, if I don't see the music written out, breaking a song into parts is beyond my ability. My husband, the other youth choir director, can --> and is more musically inclined, but says simply we don't have the voices to do parts anyway. We could certainly be more prepared though.
2. Don't rush learning a song. Take your time and teach what the lyrics mean. The choir will better appreciate and comminucate more effectively what they are singing.
Good advice. I "fuss" about this one quite abit. We don't have to learn a song one day and sing it the next. But, I'm usually vetoed. And, I so hate sounding badly.
3. Work with lead singers one on one. Allow them to listen to cds only during the rehearsal time. Encourage them to bring a tape recorder so that they can tape themselves during the rehearsal time. They will have something to listen to and practice with prior to Sunday.
We have got to get more experienced people, somehow.
4. Encourage the choir to strive for excellence. I have taught songs with leads to the choir without them ever listening to a tape. It can be done. You are the leading, you must apply yourself.
So, true.
5. This should have been first..... PRAY, and then pray some more. I really don't believe we in the Music Ministry Pray enough. Pray for God's anointing and guidance.
Perhaps, this gives me a good game plan for Saturday Morning. Thank you.
1. Pray
2. Pray to God and ask Him to stretch you in this area concerning listening to and picking out parts. Remember what is impossible with man is possible with God.
3. Continue to be the voice of reason as it pertains to taking time to learn a song and allowing it to minister to your choir frst so that it can minister to God's people.
Pray this helps.
Jonathan
I am glad the information I posted was helpful. I learned early on that people do not take the time to "listen" to the lyrics when they have a printed copy in front of them. They learn and memorize the words quicker when you do not issue the lyrics.
Repetiton in rehearsal is important. It helps with memorization of lyrics and choir parts.
Also, heed the advice of Sjonathan. It is good advoce. I'd like to add, do not be intimidated by your limitations. Be open to allowing God to broaden your skills. I too had very little skills in the area of pulling out vocal parts, but with much prayer, practice and persistance, I finally got it.
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All Ive seen on this thread are people posting there thoughts on burning cds and then getting judged for them. I dont think a single person has changed there opinion. Instead of replying with a "your stealing" or a "its post like this that..." why not hold your words and pray for them. Im probably going to get judged for this post but I copy songs on CDs for ministry purposes. I do illegal things for the Lord. When this Napster craze hit, the industry reacted to it with a legal alternative. Now its a matter of choice. Right now there is no legal alternative to copying music for worship team members. When there is one, let me know. You can say Im wrong, misguided, ignorant and on my way to the bad place below. The Lord knows my heart. I buy CDs. I dont give copies away to just anyone. When the industry allows me to license the songs we do to give us legal copy rights then Ill consider that route. Until then I ask that people respect the thoughts of others as you would like your feelings to be respected. Be Blessed.
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To LTLLAKE
I respect your thoughts....but there are legal ways to doing this thing. If you have a song you want them to learn, just buy the track at wal-mart.com It is just 88ct. Buy enough for the whole team. It may cost and it will be legal and right.
As for as your heart....
Yes God does know your heart....But you must remember He said the The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer 17:9
Don't get your heart mixed up or confused with intentions. He did not call you for good intentions, he called for clean heart. The condition of your heart is compleatly different for your intentions. Your good intentions maybe to burn cd's for ministry, but is God pleased with your actions.
Has he called you do Break the law??? No.. He has came to fulfill the law not destroy it. In God, you must do whats right even when it's "not's easy".
We must suffer just as Christ did, if we do, even down to doing what's right in our music ministry, God will crown us one day!!! Praise God!!
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There are legal ways of getting CDs and lyrics for your choir. Many gospel artists allow (for a fee) a church music ministry to get a license that allows them to "burn". The fee allows the gospel musicians to still earn money from their efforts.
Otherwise, have each member offer up .88 per song. The only problem with both methods is that not all songs are available.
But, I think if enough interest is sparked, there will more availability.
I think the above poster was attempting to say, that "there is a way that seems right to man"
We are supposed to help and encourage each other. It is our responsibility to help the "body" grow.
I've had very little medicine that actually tasted "good".
I'm inspired. I want to turn over a new leaf. I want to do this thing the right way.
Thanks to whoever started the post and thanks for the convicting words from others. I'd rather be judged now, so I can repent, and start in a new direction, than be judged later when it's too late.
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I'm inspired. I want to turn over a new leaf. I want to do this thing the right way.
Thanks to whoever started the post and thanks for the convicting words from others.
Somebody got it!!! :D That's what makes the seven pages and saying the same thing over and over worth it!!! God bless you!
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Yep, even though I must admit, the thread had really gone down hill. People were sounding like something from Jerry Springer.........
"I Steal for Jesus.......and am PROUND of it"
on the next Springer show. :)
But for real, its good that at least one person wants to at least try to do the right thing.
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Yep, even though I must admit, the thread had really gone down hill. People were sounding like something from Jerry Springer.........
"I Steal for Jesus.......and am PROUND of it"
on the next Springer show. :)
LOL!! Ain't that the truth!!! :lol: :lol:
You got me rollin'....I steal for Jesus and I'm proud of it.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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It is good to know that this thread is actually coming to order and to some good. High Five to vwebster :D :D :D :lol:
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I would like to get everyone's case on burning cd's?
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not focused on the right thing here, but how are we hurting the artists by burning a single song, when every last one of them can be seen on TV, in magazines, and even in newspapers showing off their 'material' things that they bought with the money WE as consumers and fans paid for their music? Millions of people burn thousands of CD's and individual songs EVERY DAY and I still see Missy Elliot on BET's "How I'm Living" and MTV's "Cribs" with her 4 or 5 brand new cars, (one being a green LAMBORGHINI), her huge house with pool and built-in-the-wall-72" flat screen TV, among many other 'unecessary' things. Funny, she can still afford all that AND her wardrobe (and putting gas in those cars) even when people "steal" her music. So many people are STILL BUYING her music, that it obviously doesn't affect her...not as far as her INCOME goes, anyway. It's the same with many other artist. Do you see them suffering as much as the people in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, or any other states that have recently been afflicted by chaos? No! Why? Because they have enough money to go and buy another house if one is blown to bits by a hurricane, shattered by an earthquake, or engulfed in flames. The only reason I see for them getting upset with people burning copies of their music is that they are thinking about the amount of money they may be missing out on, and how much RICHER they can be if we actually BOUGHT more copies of the music. Here's a secret many of us (Americans/consumers) may not know: numerous artists actually STEAL music themselves. They get away with it because they steal it from FOREIGN countries. Perfect example: Britney Spears (not a Gospel artist, but the only example that pops into my head right now). One of her nasty songs, "Toxic," consists of 'chopped' portions of a song originally from the Middle East. Go figure. Yet, we are the ones who are punished for copying songs? How is that fair? Artists (some of them) own the RIGHTS to their songs. If anyone uses them in a commercial, a movie, or as part of their own music, guess what? The original artist gets PAID millions of $!! They're not hurt. They're still "livin' it up". I say, "pish, posh" to them, and "stop whining". :) "Don't be offended, this is all my opinion, ain't nothin' that I'm sayin' law"-India Arie
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Well I'll burn a CD in a heart beat and have no probem with it, but I don't do it for the perpous of sellin it. If I buy a CD for us to learn a song off of it, the rest of the CD may be of no value whatsoever to us. So I don't usually copy a whole disk but I will rip songs and make CD's that are useful to us containing songs taht we want to learn. And I honestly have no problem with it. I'm not making multiple disk, just one for us to use at Church. I think thats fair use.
-Xtro
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regardless of how you feel...
no one is playing fair...
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/ftopict-16485.html
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Truth of the matter is there are so many laws that are supposed to be for own "good" in today's society that cares nothing about morals (you can just turn on the news to see it). Many laws in fact were concieved for those who lobby for these laws out of their own pockets and don't care about the so-called "good of people" (look at The Patriot Act and the fiasco surrounding that). Anyways people, especially Christians, break laws, small or big, or do things they shouldn't do, I'm not condoning or condemming nor being pessimistic , I'm just saying. Which brings me to my point, we all probably break the law anyway because according to The American Society of Composers, Authors & Publishers, you even need a license to sing a song or even play it...remember the Girls Scouts organization about 10 years ago and what they went through?
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I agree with SisterT on page 1.
SisterT Stated:
1. It is not illegal if you are burning a copy of a cd you purchased for your own personal use. For example, I buy cds for my kids and burn a copy, so that when they scratch their cd I'll have a back-up.
2. SJONATHAN02 -To burn a cd that you purchased, even if it is one song, to give to another person, including your your church, musicians or choir members breaks copyright laws, is illegal and thusly goes against the principles of God.
3. DREDAKYST - Once you buy a cd, you CANNOT do with it whatever you want. That's why copyright laws are in place. Your purchase only allows you license of fair use.
The blank cds were made with good intentions. For home & studio recording, for mixing personal cds. As always, man will find a way to abuse things.
4. RICHBET - Unless you are mixing the cds from purchases you , what you are doing is illegal too.
Now, I was QUEEN of BOOTLEGGING, so I am not condemning ya'll. I got delivered. I realized that first of all, it is stealing. Stealing is not more valuable than my relationship with God. Secondly, the artists are loosing money because of theives like you and I.
I too did Burn CD's for other people when I had purchased CD's, but with the increasing notices and cases about those who have stolen albums, movies etc.… via illegally downloading and buying copyrighted material. I am constantly ensuring that what I do is legal.
PianoWiz...