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Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: diverse379 on March 12, 2006, 10:16:51 PM
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Hey people
Listen Two people today told me the same thing at different locations they said if you really want to play study james halls first albulm learn to play all the songs
I wasl told that many NY organists play his stuff slowed down or what have you over many many church songs
has anyone else heard this.
Because I have all the James hall albums I dont remember being impressed that much but
I always say if tow people tell you the same thing syou should think about it serously if three people tell you you need to find out what they are talking about
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it sounds to me that they are referring to what is qoute unquote the brooklyn sound which is basically heavy use of minor and diminish chords thru a song where someone would generally might play a major chord. to answer your topic question my answer would be yes just for the fact if you check the date it came out musically for the gospel scene it was way ahead of its time and so are the rest of his albums. thats probaly why really only musicians and singers are up on james hall.
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thanks for the info I will dig up the CD and try to learn the music Ist hard music to catch but I guess It is time to open up my ear.
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i learned alot from James Hall's CD's and videos...they were ahead of their time and not too many people can play their songs, even to this day! I've posted a few ot them quite a while ago...The above poster is correct, the gothic way of playing their songs is quite unique, but depending on where you're located, and the church you play for, that style WILL NOT FLY...beleive me, the majority don't want "Count Dracula" or the "Phantom Of The Opra" playin their Hammond B-3 on Sunday mornin' ;D
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Anyone know the title of his first albulm??
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I want to say king of glory but dont quote me yet
I have to find it and when I doo I will let you know But I can tell you that it is purple
the Cd is purple
He made four
live in new york
we are at war
then there was the purple one
and
thiss other one where they had blue on blue robes on the cover
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James Hall's first album is God Is In Control.
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it sounds to me that they are referring to what is qoute unquote the brooklyn sound which is basically heavy use of minor and diminish chords thru a song where someone would generally might play a major chord. to answer your topic question my answer would be yes just for the fact if you check the date it came out musically for the gospel scene it was way ahead of its time and so are the rest of his albums. thats probaly why really only musicians and singers are up on james hall.
James Hall has a lot of jazz on his albums they are truly revoltionary. The New York or Brooklyn organist is more aggressive than organist for other regions, also the organ not the piano is the lead instrument in a lot of NY churches.
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james hall has quite a few albums but not enough if you ask me
1. GOD IS IN CONTROL
2. KING OF GLORY
3. ACCORDING TO JAMES HALL CHAPTER 3
4. LIVE IN NEW YORK
5. A JAMES HALL CHRISTMAS
6. WE ARE AT WAR
I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT SOME USUALLY OVERLOOKED FACTS JAMES HALL HIMSELF IS BAD CAT ON THE ORGAN.
WE CALL BUTCH HEYWARD THE FATHER OF THE BROOKLYN STYLE ORGAN/SOUND
MELVIN CRISPELL HAS ELEVATED THE BROOKLYN SOUND TO THE NEXT LEVEL
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Does anyone know where I can purchase his first album at a decent price? I've looked everywhere online and it's price over $50 for that album. Please respond either here or in a pm, thanks! :D
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Does anyone know where I can purchase his first album at a decent price? I've looked everywhere online and it's price over $50 for that album. Please respond either here or in a pm, thanks! :D
, b
I would try Ebay...or Sound and spirit.(bmgmusic.com). The CD's go for round $15-18, but I think after you purchase the first one, you get the next 3 or 4 free...I think they have good deals. I just took a glance at EBay and didn't see much....so I would check Sound and Spirit....
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, b
I would try Ebay...or Sound and spirit.(bmgmusic.com). The CD's go for round $15-18, but I think after you purchase the first one, you get the next 3 or 4 free...I think they have good deals. I just took a glance at EBay and didn't see much....so I would check Sound and Spirit....
Ebay and other online musit retailers have it used through sellers that are selling it overpriced for way over $50...I'm going to pay that much for a cd especially not knowing what kind of condiition it's in or if it's a bootleg, feel me? As far as the Sound and Spirit club, I don't do music clubs because they're overpriced. I can go to Circuit City or Best Buy and get the same cd for much cheaper, that's why I asked here :D ...thanks though :D
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MAn james Hall is the truth i think i know how ton play almost all his stuff.(STL MUSICANS ROCK)
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MAn james Hall is the truth i think i know how ton play almost all his stuff.(STL MUSICANS ROCK)
then you need to teach me some of his stuff
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I have five of James halls albums all but the last one Vocies of The Citadel
And i must say I afind it very hard to fiure out chord wise
Like Hezekiah wlker and Butch heyward the Brooklyn sound is a little ouside my grasp
i am getting it though but sssslllooowwwlllyy
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James Hall's music was one of the main influences on me when I started playing, I have almost everyone of his Cd's.
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In my opinion, Brooklyn has set the standard on playing gospel music, so James Hall and Hezekiah Walker's albums have good music that you can learn from. John Peters and Melvin Crispell play on those albums, so you're getting some of the best representation of the Brooklyn style. Much respect to all of NY's musicians....that city is on another level in gospel music.
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Yeah up here in the 'cuse He is cool. But older people don't like him because of the "gothic sound" but only the younger cats really feel him like that. His stuff is hard to play though but once you gt the hang of it it is a wrap! The first song of his I learned was God is in Control. Now I almost got The Blood. Thats a killer right there
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true that you have to use his sound sparingly because it is non traditional even by contemporary standards
my ears are opening up to it
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James Hall is the truth! A lot of people are taking his style and implementing it. Even Tye had that James Hall style in 'Sinking' and 'Still Have Joy'
I don't know if your question was answered earlier, but his first album is God is In Control
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true that you have to use his sound sparingly because it is non traditional even by contemporary standards
my ears are opening up to it
AMEN to that. i was in Church playing a traditional 1-4-2-5 devotional call and response and I went James hall Crazy. i turned it around and started playin the whole thing minor, then I played it diminished. My uncle/pastor just looked at me, laughed and said "dude, you don't play for James Hall". Now when backing him up while he preaches, he loves when I playin allof those off chords behind him. But if you goona try to play that style, you DEFINITELY gotta know when and where in the service to do so.James Hall is the truth!
A lot of people are taking his style and implementing it. Even Tye had that James Hall style in 'Sinking' and 'Still Have Joy'
Wow! i though I was the only one who noticed that. That has that James hall sound all day on those to songs.
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Wow! i though I was the only one who noticed that. That has that James hall sound all day on those to songs.
Oh no sir! I picked up on that the first few seconds of the song......just CLASSIC ;D
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Just had to jump in, those of us from NYC who are in their 40's love James Hall. But let me drop this on you, that James Hall style while unique it is not NEW! Back in the 70's you had guys like Nat Townsley(Bishop now and also drummer Nat Townsley Jr.s dad), and of course the late great Benny Cummings who if you listen to his music today, it is as if he is alive right now. His music was 20 years ahead of its time. The James Hall sound is closley tied to Benny Cummings! Donnie McKlurkin used to sing with Benny Cummings. Benny's musicans where Antione White, Cliff Hawkins both on keys, Jeffrey White on bass, Bobby Walker on drums and Benny himself on keys! let me tell you what, James Hall & Hez's bands have nothing on those guys back in the day! In the early 1980's you also had Jeffery White & the Soul Stirring Crusade Choir(where Hez got his start)! I have one of his albums on tape and over 20 years later it is still off the hook! james for sure copied from some of these guys! And that no dis, because those guys were awesome! I really wish all of you could hear some of their music it would blow your mind!
The brooklyn sound in NYC is hot!
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I love where this post is going
one thing that metronome said about taking a progression making it minor and then making it diminished is very true indeed a lot of what we hear in hjames hall and hez is different harmonic treatments to a melody
whe I was studying with melvin I heard him say every bass note can go with any chord it all depends on how you are resolving where you are going to or coming from and it is this thought process that confuses the theoretical musician like myself because it is completely out the box
but now that i am using just my ear and not trying to rely on theory i am able to process a lot more of James Halls sound.
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diverse I remeber you saying your from Queens! Since you studied with Melvin have you ever got a chance to see Butch Heyward play! Man he is the truth. You know that a lot of guys who had some classical training find the Broolyn sytle kind of difficult because of the odd fingering required. If you had started with a guy like Melvin first it would be 2nd nature. When I first started going to Butch for lessons I had a hard time. I had not been trained classically but was taught by a classically trained pianist. So all of my gospel organ style I developed on my own. When I started with Butch at 19 I completly changed my style to the Brooklyn/Butch Heyward sound. Its funny because guys I who heard me before going to Butch knew right away I had been going to him and to this day when I do play ( which is very rare) I still play that Butch Heyward style!
Good luck with Melvin, man you are blessed to have him as a teacher!
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I love Jame Hall style of Music..I wish i can play it. I have his best hits CD..and his latest..I can't stop playing it..its very annointed to me. I love them sopranos..they be singing..James..arrange his songs like I wanted to hear when i was a kid. He and his singers are the greatest to me. i gonna get his songbooks.. ;D
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i gonna get his songbooks.. ;D
James Hall has no songbooks (to my knowledge)....they would be 200+ pages long :D
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exactly its not the amount of pages but who could notate the illness of reggie the sickness of melvin the crazyness of john peters and the out thereness of james in notation
i wish there was a book out
but i guess we just have to use our ears
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Just had to jump in, those of us from NYC who are in their 40's love James Hall. But let me drop this on you, that James Hall style while unique it is not NEW! Back in the 70's you had guys like Nat Townsley(Bishop now and also drummer Nat Townsley Jr.s dad), and of course the late great Benny Cummings who if you listen to his music today, it is as if he is alive right now. His music was 20 years ahead of its time. The James Hall sound is closley tied to Benny Cummings! Donnie McKlurkin used to sing with Benny Cummings. Benny's musicans where Antione White, Cliff Hawkins both on keys, Jeffrey White on bass, Bobby Walker on drums and Benny himself on keys! let me tell you what, James Hall & Hez's bands have nothing on those guys back in the day! In the early 1980's you also had Jeffery White & the Soul Stirring Crusade Choir(where Hez got his start)! I have one of his albums on tape and over 20 years later it is still off the hook! james for sure copied from some of these guys! And that no dis, because those guys were awesome! I really wish all of you could hear some of their music it would blow your mind!
The brooklyn sound in NYC is hot!
What you kno bout Benny Cummings? Jus kiddin. It's nice to see someone who know's what they're talkin about. Also The Institutional Radio had a sound similar to those mentioned as well. Nat Townsley's album was definatly HOT!! I have and listen to it all the time. It was way ahead of it's time.
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Muziqmann you gotta to be from NYC becuase not too many cats have Nat Townsley album let alone remeber his music. And you are right his music was also ahead of its time just like Benny Cummings! I also failed to mention guys like (Bishop) JC White and the JC White Singers, John Hason and the John Hason Singers, Benny Diggs and his group. There were several other small groups.
But you also had some great choirs: Of Course the Institutional Radio Choir, Triboro Mass, Bishop Billy Robinson and the Garden Of Prayer Cathedral choir, Bishop Huie Rogers and the Bibleway Mass Choir. Man the 1970's and 80's in NYC was gospel crazy! It was gospel music Heaven!
Man I really miss those days!
Bobby
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Hey, I'm new here and this topic jumped at me right away. I am from NYC and to the many that study "worship" at the BROOKLYN SOUND. I find it to become very boring and over the top. Don't get me wrong I LOVE god is in control, but the way too many organist up here that "bite" Melvin's and Butch's style have me shake my head after the first five songs played the BROOKLYN WAY. I total try to go the other way on my approach to gospel. After hearing Tonex last album I like where is music is more than ours.
I even turned one of Butch's students on to Tonex (Tonex is that liked here) he came back and told me its the best he's heard in a while. The way the organists here play is greedy. There is no room for any other instrument other than bass. I like when the organist plays with others not all over everything.
Oh, and I may get in trouble for this (people kinda know me in NYC) but Melvin always looks soooo bored playing the organ.
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Hey Sharp its not about everyone "BITING" Butchs style its about the respect that he deserves here in NYC because the way he and others play here. Butch is well respected all over the world. He has traveled the world and has students in London, parts of Africa and even in Japan. Man tell me what gospel organinst is that well known today? And don't even talk about someone so humble, when I first met him over 20 years ago he was so nice and treated me like I was his brother. He never bragged about what he had accomplished and never showed off! Now that is the way we all should be!
I must admit Butch and Melvin do play like the are bored but as a musican it should not be about you but the singers and the lyrics! Why do you think some of the best Gospel and R&B singers have the best musicans they can find to play for them?
Of course the late Billy Preston, the late Kenny Lupper, Eld Jonathan Greer, Hubert Powell, and so many others were and are great in thier own right. Hey lets not forget the COGIC/ Twinky Clark style as well as the West coast sound of, James Clevland, Edwin Hawkins, Andre Crouch and others. What about the awesome guys out of Detroit? Those guys ain't no joke either.
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The way the organists here play is greedy. There is no room for any other instrument other than bass. I like when the organist plays with others not all over everything.
Oh, and I may get in trouble for this (people kinda know me in NYC) but Melvin always looks soooo bored playing the organ.
what!!!!!!!! lets face it especially on the east coast the organ is the primary gospel/church instrument and we are still more into choir and traditional church more than the this new style of inspirational style pop christian type of music. also if you listen to most james hall albums especialy after john peters started to play with them melvin always play in the background and john peters is out front. melvin in general has a very laid back demeanor thats why he appears to looks bored he's not a 17 yr old care free musician
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It seems the tide has turned a little in this post
to speak not in authority but as a former student of Melvin crispell and a current student of charles minor both musicians came up under butch
both have written and played on hez albulms
i will say this
melvinlearned from butch but put melvin in his music
currently charles is steering me away from the brooklyn sound because of its limitations
there are so many styles out there
they all are good in there own right and no one stlye is suprerior
i just want to perfect my organ playing and using a little brooklyn a little thomas whitfield a little midwest chicago detroit sound its all good
I dont want to be a clone of anybody
when mel;vin taught me for two years he emphasised putting myself in the music
his favorite expression was tasters choice
in ohther words do you
he never insisted that i play a chord the exact way he did he encouraged me to find myself
so with that being said
I l;ove james hall but i wouldnt want to play a whole service like that
i think the thomas whitfield sound is more to my liking then james hall
but i love brooklyn for the edge they bring
as we continue to write let us be mindful that people will differ from us in their opinions
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It seems the tide has turned a little in this post
to speak not in authority but as a former student of Melvin crispell and a current student of charles minor both musicians came up under butch
both have written and played on hez albulms
i will say this
melvinlearned from butch but put melvin in his music
currently charles is steering me away from the brooklyn sound because of its limitations
there are so many styles out there
they all are good in there own right and no one stlye is suprerior
i just want to perfect my organ playing and using a little brooklyn a little thomas whitfield a little midwest chicago detroit sound its all good
I dont want to be a clone of anybody
when mel;vin taught me for two years he emphasised putting myself in the music
his favorite expression was tasters choice
in ohther words do you
he never insisted that i play a chord the exact way he did he encouraged me to find myself
so with that being said
I l;ove james hall but i wouldnt want to play a whole service like that
i think the thomas whitfield sound is more to my liking then james hall
but i love brooklyn for the edge they bring
as we continue to write let us be mindful that people will differ from us in their opinions
i love your post it to me summarizes the principle all musicians should hold to know whast u like but never downplay someone esle cuz they like say aaron lindsey over john peters. its about your taste and preference
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Yeah! I'm from NY. Musicians from NY are very aggressive, and most learned to play w/ just a drummer accompanying them so it is hard for them to adjust to playing w/ other musicians or in a band. I love the Brookyn/NY COGIC styles, but most young musicians in NY, NJ, Conn. sound alike. Me and some of my young musician friends are shying away from the NY style of organ and discovering our own.
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Muziqmann you gotta to be from NYC becuase not too many cats have Nat Townsley album let alone remeber his music. And you are right his music was also ahead of its time just like Benny Cummings! I also failed to mention guys like (Bishop) JC White and the JC White Singers, John Hason and the John Hason Singers, Benny Diggs and his group. There were several other small groups.
But you also had some great choirs: Of Course the Institutional Radio Choir, Triboro Mass, Bishop Billy Robinson and the Garden Of Prayer Cathedral choir, Bishop Huie Rogers and the Bibleway Mass Choir. Man the 1970's and 80's in NYC was gospel crazy! It was gospel music Heaven!
Man I really miss those days!
Bobby
JC white and his singers were tough! ALL the choirs you mentioned were great as well. Institutional will always be my favorite.
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I must admit my mom bought the Institutinal Album One More Day in (I think) 1971 and I was hooked and I was only 6 years old but learned how to play the drums with that album. So of course they became my favorite choir. With Bibleway Mass and Jeffrey White a close 2nd and 3rd. By the way talk about 2 musicans who were so good that they were playing on everybodys album coming out of NYC, Jeffery White (on bass) and Bobby Walker(on drums). These guys were like were in their early teens (13, 14, 15) when they were playing on Institutional, Bibleway, Benny Cummings, and Tribobro Mass. I tell you what these guys and a lot of the old school guys were really unbelievable to be so good, so humble and so young!
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fantastic history brothers
i too am at the prompting of my instructor moving toward the midwest sound
i dont really know what that is exactly yet but what i have been learning so far i like
I still love the aggressiveness of the brooklyn sound
but understanding thomas whitfield and twinkie is just as important to me
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I'm a little late responding to this thread, but I must chime in and say that I have followed James Hall since he first appeared on the national scene with "God Is In Control" (as I have followed many, many artists) and James Hall goes down in the history of my listening to music (all of my life) as the ONLY artists to NEVER, EVER, EVER disappoint me!! I have never purchased a James Hall album that I did not like!! James Hall & WAP are the best gospel artists out there and James is an ARTIST in every sense of the word!!
I love his music, the band, the Brooklyn sound, the jazz infusion, classical infusion, avant garde, gothis ctyle, the whole nine yards!! I CAN'T WAIT until his new album drops!!!!!
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love his music, the band, the Brooklyn sound, the jazz infusion, classical infusion, avant garde, gothis ctyle, the whole nine yards!! I CAN'T WAIT until his new album drops!!!!!
Posted on: June 26, 2006, 07:32:33 PMPosted by: diverse379
This is what makes the brooklyn sound and james hall so unique there is this classical element
the jazz element is definitely there then there is this avante garde thing going on
cab calloway zoot suit type stuff
and of course the gothic sound which sometimes i think is a little too much for me
but you cant say the crew doesent bring it cuz they do
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I must admit my mom bought the Institutinal Album One More Day in (I think) 1971 and I was hooked and I was only 6 years old but learned how to play the drums with that album. So of course they became my favorite choir. With Bibleway Mass and Jeffrey White a close 2nd and 3rd. By the way talk about 2 musicans who were so good that they were playing on everybodys album coming out of NYC, Jeffery White (on bass) and Bobby Walker(on drums). These guys were like were in their early teens (13, 14, 15) when they were playing on Institutional, Bibleway, Benny Cummings, and Tribobro Mass. I tell you what these guys and a lot of the old school guys were really unbelievable to be so good, so humble and so young!
Yeah Jeff White is a BEAST on the bass and so is his son Jeff Jr.
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Hey Loopy if you like Jame Hall & WAP then you have got to get your hands on a copy o f the late GREAT Benny Cummings and the Kings Temple Choir and also the Benny Cumings singers. If you think that Hames Hall had so sick arrangements then this guy will blow your mind and just think this was around 1977 - 1981. I wish there was some way I could let you hear his music, you wouldn't believe it! His classical arrangements were awesome. Also for a large choir don't forget Institutinal Radio Choir and some of Butch Heywards calsssical arrangements . They had some very difficult songs to play as well but they were great to listen to!
Today however nobody can touch James Hall sound!
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i dont know why yall be teasing us with these albums and records that are nearly impossible to get
but the history is nice to read for sure
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The James Hall sound is a required taste. A lot of the intermediate cats from down in the city have that same sound but the NICE cats all have their own distinctions. But thats the same in all areas so it really shouldn't be that bad.
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I love where this post is going
one thing that metronome said about taking a progression making it minor and then making it diminished is very true indeed a lot of what we hear in hjames hall and hez is different harmonic treatments to a melody
when I was studying with melvin I heard him say every bass note can go with any chord it all depends on how you are resolving where you are going to or coming from and it is this thought process that confuses the theoretical musician like myself because it is completely out the box
Hate to bump an old topic, but this really interested me. Anyone wanna elaborate?
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Hate to bump an old topic, but this really interested me. Anyone wanna elaborate?
I am a little further along now than I was then
The alternate bass line thing is cool
simply you can take any chord tone and use that as the bass note
you can also use any note from a substitute chord like a tritone sub
you can also use notes from the related diminished chord
you can also drop two or four from each chord and use that note as the bass
that covers a little over half of your possibilites
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I am a little further along now than I was then
The alternate bass line thing is cool
simply you can take any chord tone and use that as the bass note
you can also use any note from a substitute chord like a tritone sub
you can also use notes from the related diminished chord
you can also drop two or four from each chord and use that note as the bass
that covers a little over half of your possibilites
What did he just say?? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/?
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Well the "God Is In Control" album along with the rest that I own certainly got my attention back in the 90s
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What did he just say?? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/?
What did he just say?? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/?
Sorry I was in a rush Ok here is a break down of what I mean
if you take a chord
lets take a c chord lets make it dominant so we can really have no limitations
we are doing a two chord progression
to F7
the notes in this chord are C E G Bb y
any one of these notes can serve as the bass note for the chord
now you can also use any of the extentions
such as the ninth and the 13th
so you now have As bass note possiblilites C D E G A Bb
you can also use the tritone substitution which is F# and use that as a bass note
I said you can use any chord tone in the substitute chord
the notes of the F#7 is F# A# (Bb) C# and E
the only one of these notes we havent used yet is the C#
this is a funky sound and not in a good way because the C3 is a half step above the real root of the chord it is very dissonant however you can invert the chord to E G Bb
and play the C# without really playing the C natural
or better yet play the C move to the c# then play the F7
what is the related diminished chord
this is the diminished chord built on the D or the 2nd scale degree
those notes are D F Ab B
try this out
C/DFABB
D/CEGBb
E/BDFAb
F/ACEbF
my goodness are their any notes left out
nope we just covered every note of the scale
so you see any note can substitute for the bass note of any chord
now that you have that information
take a song you know well
and try this out with a two chord progression
that you always do
and see if you can use one of these bass note substitutions
the idea is to keep the bass line smooth or melodic
it doesent make sense to substitute a bass note if the sound isnt going to improve because of the substitution
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Anything from James Hall is going to be all that!!!
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Anything from James Hall is going to be all that!!!
Sad to say that is not true and i consider myself to be a very great big james hall fan (Live at Foxwoods)
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All i can say is that the first album was ALL THAT AND THEN SOME!!!! I promise
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What did he just say?? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/? ?/?
I'm gonna do a youtube video on it soon.
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Here's a clip of Benny Cummings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgaUIyfC36k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgaUIyfC36k)
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any links to clips/examples of what you're talking about?
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Awesome thread! I just started listening to JH a few months ago. His music is now on Itunes and amazon.com on MP3 format, so we no longer have to pay crazy prices for it.
And I also enjoyed the history lesson. Everybody says that NY was crazy back in the day. I look at the young artists and musicians now, and though there are some really good ones out, I dont think that in 20 years we'll be talking about them the same way the older people talk about Benny Cummings, Anthone White and others. But who knows. :-\
As for the Brooklyn style, some Pastors and church people absolutely hate it and say that it sounds sad and scary... lol, but others love it. I rarely use it, but I'll throw in a few of the moves when I have a chance.
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I love James Hall's music, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's all that on any album. Just because something is hard and full of phat chords & runs doesn't automatically make it all that. It's all in your perception of things.
whe I was studying with melvin I heard him say every bass note can go with any chord it all depends on how you are resolving where you are going to or coming from
CO-SIGN!!!
To add on to that, any chord and note can be played in any key as well, it just depends on the overall progression of the music.
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I love James Hall's music, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's all that on any album. Just because something is hard and full of phat chords & runs doesn't automatically make it all that. It's all in your perception of things.
CO-SIGN!!!
To add on to that, any chord and note can be played in any key as well, it just depends on the overall progression of the music.
this concept sounds almost ludicrous
if it werent for the fact that you said it.
or even me you may think us insane
and
i dont think you can just say to someone who doesent know theory or is not advanced because there are so many wrong choices to make,
i think however starting from the basics and slowly adding alternate tones and substitutions helps.
I wish we could have our own lgm conference where we do a lot of shedding.
choir stuff
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this concept sounds almost ludicrous
if it werent for the fact that you said it.
or even me you may think us insane
What concept u talking about? The playing any chord or note in any key?
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Awesome thread!
Agreed.