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Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: diverse379 on May 09, 2006, 08:52:34 AM

Title: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: diverse379 on May 09, 2006, 08:52:34 AM
You know I believe it does make a difference how you practice your chords and your scales your progressions etc

I believe from a  pure learning your instrument stand point practicing your scales and  chords around the cycle is much more effective then practicing them chromatically

chromatics have a place and i will get to that but i want to explore the benefits of practicing around the cycle


When do I recommend chromatic practice when learning to modulate
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: 4hisglory on May 11, 2006, 07:05:48 AM
HHmmmm.....interesting.   I've learned that you need to practice your chords around the circle of 5ths, AND chromatically descending.  Wh???  Because when you move  your chords chromatically descending, it is like a substitution for the circle of 5ths.

Ex: Circle of 5ths
D......2
G......5
C.......1

Ex:  Chromatically
D.......2
Db......5 (tritone sub for G)
C.......1
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practic
Post by: B3Wannabe on May 11, 2006, 08:43:04 AM
Practicing in 4ths or 5ths is better/easier because the chords, progressions and scales don't change that much. There are just minor changes between a 4th or 5th interval. I practice everything this way now, but I also practice moving chords and scales along an arpeggio...meaning taking a chord like a CMaj7, breaking it up into its fundamental parts and using a totally different chord or scale along those notes. I've found that this presents some interesting ideas.

For instance...

Key Cb
(A Maj3 interval broken into a arpeggio, descending along a CMaj7)

C-E-G-B \ B, Eb, G, B, E, Ab, C, E
Cb-Eb-Gb-Bb \ Eb

or

Key G
(Maj chords played along a CMaj7)

Ab-C-Gb \ EMaj, GMaj, Bdom, CMaj
A-E-G \ GMaj

written out

Ab-C-Gb \ B-E-Ab, D-G-B, B-Eb-Gb-A, C-E-G
A-E-G \ B-D-G

You get the picture though....I'm still learning this though.


Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: Junyah on May 11, 2006, 09:01:28 AM
Thanks for the practice tip.   I have been playing for a while now and most of the songs we do are in Db, Eb, Ab, Bb, C, D, F G but I tend to transpose the other scales to the ones I know.  I can play the scales but never took time to learn the chords in the other scales.  This tip is a a huge "Ahh-Haa" for me.  I am re- commited to PRACTICING now and not just practicing songs.
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practic
Post by: diverse379 on May 11, 2006, 10:51:45 AM
Practicing in 4ths or 5ths is better/easier because the chords, progressions and scales don't change that much. There are just minor changes between a 4th or 5th interval. I practice everything this way now, but I also practice moving chords and scales along an arpeggio...meaning taking a chord like a CMaj7, breaking it up into its fundamental parts and using a totally different chord or scale along those notes. I've found that this presents some interesting ideas.

For instance...

Key Cb
(A Maj3 interval broken into a arpeggio, descending along a CMaj7)

C-E-G-B \ B, Eb, G, B, E, Ab, C, E
Cb-Eb-Gb-Bb \ Eb

or

Key G
(Maj chords played along a CMaj7)

Ab-C-Gb \ EMaj, GMaj, Bdom, CMaj
A-E-G \ GMaj

written out

Ab-C-Gb \ B-E-Ab, D-G-B, B-Eb-Gb-A, C-E-G
A-E-G \ B-D-G

You get the picture though....I'm still learning this though.




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I am reading but it is like i am dislexic or something i cant get it I will have to look at this again on sunday after i am not under pressure to learn new songs but i like what i think you are saying
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: T-Block on May 12, 2006, 01:47:59 PM
I say chromatically is the best way, for me to practice.  I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I go chromatically, my mind has to shift gears from key to key.  If you just practice in 4ths and 5ths, then you usually going to keys that are not that much different to play in than the key you just left.  If you go chromatically, then you have to keep shifting positions, causing you to focus more on your technique.  That is a better way to learn in my opinion.  I am not knocking on anybody else who feels differently, as long as you learning and getting better, it's all good!!!
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: musallio on June 18, 2008, 09:18:36 AM
I am really interested to know what others think about this topic.

Personally, I prefer going chromatically because it is easier & yes, it's a big shift from 1 feel to a completely different feel.
Also, most songs modulate in halfsteps (I've rarely heard songs modulating in 4ths or 5ths!).

It is only of late that I've started to practice modulating in varied directions & steps..

But I say viva to 1/2 steppings..& even wholestep modulations.. :)
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: 4hisglory on June 18, 2008, 12:38:55 PM
I prefer chromatically at first, because its easiest becasue you really don't have to think about what the notes are in the next chord.

But if you really want to know if you know the chords, moving in whole steps or thirds will really tell you.
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: chevonee on June 18, 2008, 02:13:34 PM
I say chromatically is the best way, for me to practice.  I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I go chromatically, my mind has to shift gears from key to key.  If you just practice in 4ths and 5ths, then you usually going to keys that are not that much different to play in than the key you just left.  If you go chromatically, then you have to keep shifting positions, causing you to focus more on your technique.  That is a better way to learn in my opinion.  I am not knocking on anybody else who feels differently, as long as you learning and getting better, it's all good!!!
CO-SIGN 100%!!!!!!
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: diverse379 on June 18, 2008, 04:30:10 PM
who is resurecting all of these old posts?


what do I feel two years later?


I think I like whole steps because of the real world application of connecting chords via passing chords

I also like moving in circle of fifths without voice leading because it trains you for
solo piano
(playing chords in different registers quickly from one part of the piano to the other )


chromatic is always a great way to start learning a chord


so i really say do all of them and do them all well


maybe start moving your chords chromatically
then in whole steps
then in the circle

the same with transposing an entire song

cromatically then in whole steps
then in the cycle

catch me in two more years you may get a different answer
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: musallio on June 18, 2008, 04:53:05 PM
I like what I'm reading here so far (http://images.putfile.com/smilies/004.gif)
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practice
Post by: diverse379 on June 19, 2008, 10:11:06 AM
I say chromatically is the best way, for me to practice.  I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I go chromatically, my mind has to shift gears from key to key.  If you just practice in 4ths and 5ths, then you usually going to keys that are not that much different to play in than the key you just left.  If you go chromatically, then you have to keep shifting positions, causing you to focus more on your technique.  That is a better way to learn in my opinion.  I am not knocking on anybody else who feels differently, as long as you learning and getting better, it's all good!!!

I think that is exactly why circle of fifths practice is good for song transposition especially for beginners

because you are only changing a chord or two

it is easier for them to approach the concept of transposing

but on the contrary sometimes moving a chord by the circle is harder than moving it chromatically
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practic
Post by: Fenix on June 19, 2008, 11:03:04 AM
I prefer moving in the circle of fifths. There is a gradual change in positions that i think is very comfortable. Moving from C to C# entails a very drastic change in chord voicings and positions that may not be too comfortable for the beginner and would cause frustrations. IMO of course. 8)
Title: Re: chromatically or the cycle of 5ths does it make a difference how you practic
Post by: musallio on June 19, 2008, 03:02:46 PM
I prefer moving in the circle of fifths. There is a gradual change in positions that i think is very comfortable. Moving from C to C# entails a very drastic change in chord voicings and positions that may not be too comfortable for the beginner and would cause frustrations. IMO of course. 8)

Considering that looking at a chord ito Eb & then Ab, it might be too intimidating for a beginner or even an an advanced player who's just starting out to play in all keys.

Yes, there is a nice feel when moving in 4ths, but all in all, the key is to be able to do it in all ways, back & forth & in all inversions..That's when even one's playing & level of confidence will shoot off to the next level..