LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: Mecos on June 18, 2006, 04:54:09 AM
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Hey peoples!!!!!!
I wanted to get a organ for our new church that will be entering in a few months, and I wanted to know what kind of organ is most popular now and which one has the best sound. I am used to keyboards. I decided to get a organ.. The church will pay for it so let me know. I don't care about prices right now. Are the ones with the foot pedal thing at the bottom really worth it.
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YOUR BEST BET WILL BE TO GET EITHER A HAMMOND B3,C3,A100 WITH A 122 OR 147 LESLIE THE GUITAR CENTER HERE IN LAKELAND FL HAVE A B3 WITH THE LESLIE FOR ABOUT 6,700,BUT IF YOU WANT SOMETHING PORTABLE THERES PLENTY TO CHOOSE FROM LIKE THE HAMMOND XK3,ROLAND VK8,KORG CX3,NORD ELECTRO ALL THE PORTABLE ONES ARE GOOD I THINK THE NORD AND ROLAND ARE THE BEST ONES THOUGH
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reggie pretty much said it all so I won't repeat it. Another place you might look for organs and leslies is www.keyboardexchange.com. They do offer financing for churches.
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I WOUD GO WITH A TRADITIONAL HAMMOND. EITHER A A100, B3, OR C3.
I WOULDN'T TRUST GETTING A NEWER ORGAN WITH THE CHURCHS TODAY. B/C MOSTLY EVERYBODY THAT PLAYS A ORGAN IS USED TO A TRADITIONAL ORGAN. SO THEY WILL TREAT YOUR NEW ORGAN LIKE AN OLD ONE. SO BASICALLY WHAT IM SAYING IS THEY WILL BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF YOUR NEW ORGAN.
TRUST ME, I KNOW BY EXPERIENCE. GO WITH A TRADTIONAL HAMMOND.
TheReturn
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I agree, get on older B3 (they sound better than the newer ones too), plus you can get one on Ebay for under 3k. The C3 is vrtually the same, it was just designed for women, as the B3 was designed for men. The A100 is more of a practice organ for home, than for use in a church. But work with what you got.
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The C3 is vrtually the same, it was just designed for women, as the B3 was designed for men.
Um, no. "C" was the "church" designation as the four-legged B series cabinet was deemed not appropriate for some church settings.
If money is no object I would consider looking into a "New B3". They are modeled to sound exactly like the older B3s and do a fairly good job of it, and you are less likely to have repair and maintenance issues down the line. You can select different tonewheel sets so that it can, in fact, sound like several different B3s. I think most of the people that play New B3s and dont like them havent bothered to find the tonewheel set that fits their ideal.
If you get an old B3/C3/A100, get one that has been well maintained or rebuilt. You probably DONT want one with new Tone Generator caps, but new Preamp caps are a good thing (but not always necessary). And the older the organ, the more likely the capacitor values have drifted, but the last-run organs from the 70s werent as well made . . . so the best years are the ones in the middle, like the 60s.
If you dont use percussion B2s and C2s are very nice organs, and can be updated with Trek II
Lastly you'll want to get at least one (two if you have the money) Leslie 122s or 147s (depending on which the organ is wired for). The new 122A/147As are the same as the old 122/147s.
Yes, I made some generalizations.
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Hey peoples!!!!!!
I wanted to get a organ for our new church that will be entering in a few months, and I wanted to know what kind of organ is most popular now and which one has the best sound. I am used to keyboards. I decided to get a organ.. The church will pay for it so let me know. I don't care about prices right now. Are the ones with the foot pedal thing at the bottom really worth it.
Look up www.vintageorgans.com, and they will surely fix you right up! God bless, Bishop Cole
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You should look into either a B3,C3 or A100. check out www.b3hammond.com they have some real good organs for sale.
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That's easy I'd choose a B3.
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I'd be hesitant to buy thru vintageorgans.com. After contacting them for some prices, I've come to the conclusion that they are way overpriced and taking advantage of people who don't know any better. They told me they couldn't part with a classic 122 or 147 leslie for less than $4000. And the price is even higher combined with a Hammond B3. Keyboard Exchange sells fully restored leslies for around $2000 (more or less depending on the outward appearance) and Speakeasy Vintage Music has a fixed price of $1800 for their fully restored leslie's.
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A nice A100 with a back ang a 122 would do wonders
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I'd be hesitant to buy thru vintageorgans.com. After contacting them for some prices, I've come to the conclusion that they are way overpriced and taking advantage of people who don't know any better. They told me they couldn't part with a classic 122 or 147 leslie for less than $4000. And the price is even higher combined with a Hammond B3. Keyboard Exchange sells fully restored leslies for around $2000 (more or less depending on the outward appearance) and Speakeasy Vintage Music has a fixed price of $1800 for their fully restored leslie's.
Brand new Leslies sell for around $2k. Surely a used one shouldnt be any more than that.
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I would recommend the New B-3 or New C-3 for your church because it can be leased (which is good for a business) and it includes a warranty and maintenance contract. It is defitely more expensive, but the maintenance contract will be very useful. This should be a major consideration because oftentimes most people in charge at the church don't understand the importance of babying a vintage Hammond. It'll make more sense to them when they see a solid maintenance and warranty contract with an 800 number they can call if anything goes wrong.
The vintage B-3s and C-3s will always sound be the best, but they will be expensive to maintain, and finding a good vintage Hammond tech in your area may or may not be easy. Before you buy a vintage Hammond, establish contact with a local Hammond technician. You want someone who really knows his/her Hammonds. The one in my area does good work and I trust him.
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Brand new Leslies sell for around $2k. Surely a used one shouldnt be any more than that.
Well lets see, the leslie I'm converting cost $500 + $167 for shipping on Ebay. So alone that was $667. The leslie I bought requires a new tube amp and therefor a new bass speaker and crossover (the speaker and crossover aren't compatible with a 122 tube amp that I want to put in it). The Jensen C15L Bass Speaker cost me $145 and the crossover $70. Shipping was $14.00 (both purchased from Tonewheel General). Totaling $229. The tube amp I'm purchasing from BBorgan will cost $550. So you put all that together and come up with......$1446. All I'll probably need to do is clean and oil the motors, replace the belts, and I'm set. Belts are chicken feed so I don't even bother taking that cost into account.
Lucky for me, the tube amp, bass speaker, and crossover I'm taking out of the leslie are actually quite valuable if in good condition. I can definately get a good $500-$600 for the 3 together.
So I practically have a like-new leslie for alot less than what I would've paid purchasing a rebuilt leslie. Ebay is the bomb! ;D
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Hey peoples!!!!!!
I wanted to get a organ for our new church that will be entering in a few months, and I wanted to know what kind of organ is most popular now and which one has the best sound. I am used to keyboards. I decided to get a organ.. The church will pay for it so let me know. I don't care about prices right now. Are the ones with the foot pedal thing at the bottom really worth it.
DOES THE NEW CHURCH HAVE A GOOD SOUND SYSTEM? IF SO GO WITH 2 LESLIES. MIC ONE OF THE LESLIES IN TRY TO CONCEAL IT BY PUTTING IT IN A CLOSET OR BACK ROOM. AND PLACE THE OTHER LESLIE DIRRECTLY EITHER BEHIDE OR ON THE SIDE OF YOU.
STILL I WOULD GO WITH A OLDER B3,C3, OR A100. IF THE CHURCHDOES HAVE A GOOD SOUND SYSTEM TRY TO GO WITH A A100 AND THAT WOULD ELIMANATE THE NEED FOR THE LESLIE TO THE SIDE OF YOU OR NEAR YOU.
DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT THE LESLIE UP ON A WALL OR PLACE THEM ANYWHERE MORE THAN 15 FEET AWAY FROM YOU.
YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO HEAR YOURSELF GOOD AND ALSO IF YOU HANG THE LESLIE ON A WALL (suspend the leslie) YOU WILL LOSE ALOT OF BASS AND LOW END.
TheReturn
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I'd be hesitant to buy thru vintageorgans.com. After contacting them for some prices, I've come to the conclusion that they are way overpriced and taking advantage of people who don't know any better. They told me they couldn't part with a classic 122 or 147 leslie for less than $4000. And the price is even higher combined with a Hammond B3. Keyboard Exchange sells fully restored leslies for around $2000 (more or less depending on the outward appearance) and Speakeasy Vintage Music has a fixed price of $1800 for their fully restored leslie's.
I totally agree. These people only want to screw some congregation out of their vintage hammond, sell them a digital, and then put their organ up for 6-10 thousand bucks. They make 50 bucks worth of repairs and hammer some poor ignorant church out of their vintage rig. These people suck.
Pardon my french.
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Thanks everybody for the advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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agree with everything,if you get two leslies,or a leslie and tone cabinet ;try putting leslie behind and slightly above you like on a half wall if you have the space,room, and a couple of brothers handy with construction.a fellow who used to rebuild/resell suggested this ;with the bass rotor @ear level you get good bottom and project the mids-highs.with another leslie/tone cabinet 20' feet away get great sound.also,KORgs c3 is killer,so is VOCE gear.i use a voce V3 and 2 controllers for travel.be blessed of LORD
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try putting leslie behind and slightly above you like on a half wall if you have the space,room, and a couple of brothers handy with construction.a fellow who used to rebuild/resell suggested this ;with the bass rotor @ear level you get good bottom and project the mids-highs.
No, no, no, no! As already stated in this thread, and in other threads, you never want to raise the Leslie off the ground. You want it on the ground, against a wall, in a corner is best! And you definitely want it close to the organ.
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DOES THE NEW CHURCH HAVE A GOOD SOUND SYSTEM? IF SO GO WITH 2 LESLIES. MIC ONE OF THE LESLIES IN TRY TO CONCEAL IT BY PUTTING IT IN A CLOSET OR BACK ROOM. AND PLACE THE OTHER LESLIE DIRRECTLY EITHER BEHIDE OR ON THE SIDE OF YOU.
Actually, if you have two Leslies, you dont need to do this.
The reason to "conceal" a Leslie (having it miced in a soundproofed closet, etc) is to get it off the stage so it doesnt bleed into the other mics. It's like putting plexiglass around the drums. But if you have another Leslie on stage it defeats the purpose! It's not going to sound any better miced because it is enclosed! You'll want both Leslies in "the musicians area" and at least one of them right next to you. Mic whichever one is further from the drums. You dont need fancy mics either, two 58s or 57s with windscreens will work fine.
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Actually, if you have two Leslies, you dont need to do this.
The reason to "conceal" a Leslie (having it miced in a soundproofed closet, etc) is to get it off the stage so it doesnt bleed into the other mics. It's like putting plexiglass around the drums. But if you have another Leslie on stage it defeats the purpose! It's not going to sound any better miced because it is enclosed! You'll want both Leslies in "the musicians area" and at least one of them right next to you. Mic whichever one is further from the drums. You dont need fancy mics either, two 58s or 57s with windscreens will work fine.
WELL IF ONE OF THE LESLIES IS CONCEALED THE SOUND DEPT. COULD ALSO MIX THE ORGAN HEAVILY INTO THE OTHER MUSICIAN'S MONITER. BUT IT IS JUST PERSONAL PREFERENCE TO HAVE A LESLIE BEHIDE THE ORGAN SO YOU CAN PLAY IN THE CHURCH MODE. IF THE LESLIE THAT IS EXPOSED IS SET TO THE CORRECT SOUND LEVEL, IT WON'T BLEED INTO THE OTHER MICS.
THIS WAY EVERYBODY IS HAPPY. AND ALSO 2 OF THE SAME MICS WON'T SOUND THAT GOOD FOR BOTH THE TOP AND BOTTEM ROTOR. YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE MICS THAT HAVE FREQUENCYS THAT ARE SPECIFIED TO WHAT YOU'RE MIKING. TRY A AUDIX D4 OR SOME TYPE OF BASS MIC ON THE BOTTEM ROTOR. AND OF COURSE THE CLASSIC SM57 ON THE TOP.
TheReturn
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I agree, get on older B3 (they sound better than the newer ones too), plus you can get one on Ebay for under 3k. The C3 is vrtually the same, it was just designed for women, as the B3 was designed for men. The A100 is more of a practice organ for home, than for use in a church. But work with what you got.
wow im a lil saddened by your descriptions of these models and just a lil FYI the a100 is alot punchier than the B or C
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and also by the way most hammond resellers not the new junk but the real hammonds sell B3's with A100 internals and thats not meant to rip anyone off but just cuz it works better
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WELL IF ONE OF THE LESLIES IS CONCEALED THE SOUND DEPT. COULD ALSO MIX THE ORGAN HEAVILY INTO THE OTHER MUSICIAN'S MONITER.
You can do this just as well if the Leslie is miced and on stage.
As for mic choice, I've tried both options, and find it sounds smoother with two 57s. It's subjective. There are a lot of web pages devoted to different Leslie micing techniques.
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wow im a lil saddened by your descriptions of these models and just a lil FYI the a100 is alot punchier than the B or C
Actually the A100 guts are exactly the same, and so it sounds exactly the same (except for the internal speakers). There's another thread with more detail on this, not to mention a LOT of web pages. The reason people put A100 guts in B3 cases is because they find B3s that are beyond repair, but people like the B3 case better, so you can put A100 guts in and it is EXACTLY THE SAME.