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Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: outstretchedarm on August 09, 2006, 06:35:52 PM
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hello all. This is what I've been studying lately.
I try to think of every kind of chord as a tool that can be used to create deeper music. Being an amateur student of the blues and gospel, and a fledging piano player, I'm very interested in what I call "transition chords;" creative and pretty ways of transitioning between two otherwise common place chords.
The question becomes, what chords can you throw in between? Can you just go all willy nilly? No, like everything else in music, there are patterns; one must tap into the "deeper magic," as Aslan from Narnia would say.
This is a whole world, transitional chords. But here is one approach to it.
1) 7th Chords
7th chords are good for making a transition between I and IV chord. In the key of C, the obvious example is
C --> C7 --> F
However, there are more applications. In the major scale of G, G is the I chord and C is the IV chord. Therefore
G --> G7 --> C
So write there, you have two transitions you can use in the key of C. Can you find more?
2) The Diminished Chord
The dim chord is deep, but, put simply simply, it desires to resolve to it flattened 2nd or flattened 4th. But this is a complicated way of saying it can be used to bridge a I with a II, and a I with a IV. Like this:
I --> bIIdim --> IIm
C --> Db dim --> Dm
(C-E-G) --> (Db-E-G) --> (D-F-A)
note how easily a I major chord can be changed into its IIb diminished, just by moving the root up on semi-tone.
the other application
I --> bIIdim --> IV
C --> Dbdim --> F
Given the above principles, can you find other uses for this chord in the key of C?
3) The Diminished 7th
This, in my opinion, is the ultimate transitional chord. It can be used in dozens, if not more, ways, of which I have only discovered a few, which I will now share with you.
3a. I --> Idim7 --> V
C --> Cdim7 --> G
3b. I --> Vdim7 --> V
C --> Gdim7 --> G
3c. I --> Idim7 --> IIm
C --> Cdim7 --> Dm
3d. I --> bIIdim7 --> VIm
G --> Fdim7* --> Em
C --> Gdim7* --> Am
* okay, this is a strange thing to articulate. Techinically, it should say G --> Abdim7 --> Em, however, "Abdim7" (Ab-B-D-F) is an inversion of Fdim7 (F-Ab-B-D); they contain the same notes. In my mind, there are only 3 diminished 7th chords, and I refer to them as Cdim7, Fdim7, or Gdim7 no matter what, to make it easy on myself. Likewise, in the second example, it should read C --> Dbdim7 --> Am, but Dbdim7 (Db-E-G-Bb) = Gdim7 (G-Bb-Db-E).
There is one more application of the dim7 chord that I know of but I can't remember it offhand. For more theory on why this chord is so awesome see here http://www.andymilne.dial.pipex.com/Discords.shtml
4) The Augmented Chord
I --> Iaug --> IV
C --> Caug--> F
G --> Gaug --> C
I --> Iaug --> VI
C --> Caug --> Am
G --> Gaug --> Em
5) The Major 7th Chord
I --> Imaj7 --> bVI
C --> Cmaj7 --> Ab
F --> Fmaj7 --> Dm
Well, that's it for a primer. Gotta get back to work! I'm still exploring the higher chords like 11ths and 13ths. Futhermore, I have been compiling a series of charts having to do with chord progressions for my personal benefit, and have often wondered how useful they could be if placed in HTML or flash form and/or assembled into some form of executable. If there is anyone with programming knowledge who would want to collaborate on creating such a thing, let me know.
Peace and God bless.
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3) The Diminished 7th
This, in my opinion, is the ultimate transitional chord. It can be used in dozens, if not more, ways, of which I have only discovered a few, which I will now share with you.
3a. I --> Idim7 --> V
C --> Cdim7 --> G
3b. I --> Vdim7 --> V
C --> Gdim7 --> G
3c. I --> Idim7 --> IIm
C --> Cdim7 --> Dm
3d. I --> bIIdim7 --> VIm
G --> Fdim7* --> Em
C --> Gdim7* --> Am
* okay, this is a strange thing to articulate. Techinically, it should say G --> Abdim7 --> Em, however, "Abdim7" (Ab-B-D-F) is an inversion of Fdim7 (F-Ab-B-D); they contain the same notes. In my mind, there are only 3 diminished 7th chords, and I refer to them as Cdim7, Fdim7, or Gdim7 no matter what, to make it easy on myself. Likewise, in the second example, it should read C --> Dbdim7 --> Am, but Dbdim7 (Db-E-G-Bb) = Gdim7 (G-Bb-Db-E).
Also, anytime you play a fully diminished chord, it naturally wants to resolve to a minor chord 1/2 step away, no matter what key you are in, no matter what scale degree you are on. Now they can resolve to other places, but the strongest resolution will be to the minor chord 1/2 step away.
Now, this is interesting cuz a fully diminished chord contains 4 notes, so essentially that means there are 4 resolutions for that one chord. It could resolve to any minor chord 1/2 step away from any note of that chord. The chord you resolve to depends on your key and what scale degree you are trying to go to. Here is an example:
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb = C fully diminished chord or Cdim7
Resolution #1
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
C#-E-G (C# minor chord) or Db-Fb-Ab (Db minor chord)
Resolution #2
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
B-E-G (E minor chord)
Resolution #3
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
D-G-Bb (G minor chord)
Resolution #4
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
Db-F-Bb (Bb minor chord)
You see that? Same starting chord, 4 different resolutions, 4 different sounds. I bet you are wondering how can there be 4 resolutions for the same chord? Well, the fully diminished chord doesn't lie in any key, so theoretically it lies in every key. It's sort of like The Matrix explanation (Mopheus talks about the Agents, "In the matrix, they are everyone, and they are no one").
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well put, T. I, too, think very highly of this chord -- and your matrix analogy is fitting.
the dim7 chord is sorta like "in-between worlds." It is the red pill take can take you someplace completely different 8)
I've never thought of it as belonging to no key. In my thinking, its' awesome properties were due to the fact that it is a cyclical chord -- in C-Eb-Bb-A, the next logical note to be added, and additional minor third, would bring it back to C. Thus, it is cyclical, unlike major and minor chords which, when advanced beyond an octave, generate 9th, 11th, etc.
Furthermore, I thought the dim7 chord was very special because it evenly divides the octave into four equal parts. That symmetry has power. Most chords are assymmetrical, they sorta "hang out" on one part of the octave or another, having sort of a tonal center.
Finally, I think the dim7 is awesome because it is basically two tri-tones overlaid. This is one of the ways i want to distinguish myself from other gospel keyboardists, who rely heavily on the tri-tone, by using the dim7 more heavily instead.
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C-Eb-Gb-Bbb = C fully diminished chord or Cdim7
Resolution #1
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
C#-E-G (C# minor chord) or Db-Fb-Ab (Db minor chord)
Resolution #2
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
B-E-G (E minor chord)
Resolution #3
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
D-G-Bb (G minor chord)
Resolution #4
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
Db-F-Bb (Bb minor chord)
follow up question:
I see that this chord resolves to these four (and many more) places. However, it does seem to matter where you start your progression. I'm not at a keyboard right now, but I don't think C --> Cdim7 --> C#m would sound very good, unless its for some funky modulation.
This is why i try to think in terms of the roman numerals. Could you kindly provide what chords you could start from to get to the resolutions provided for each of the above examples?
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follow up question:
I see that this chord resolves to these four (and many more) places. However, it does seem to matter where you start your progression. I'm not at a keyboard right now, but I don't think C --> Cdim7 --> C#m would sound very good, unless its for some funky modulation.
This is why i try to think in terms of the roman numerals. Could you kindly provide what chords you could start from to get to the resolutions provided for each of the above examples?
I would be happy to do that. I didn't think to put the starting chord first, that would be helpful, so here it is:
Resolution #1
B-D#-F# (B major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
C#-E-G (C# minor chord) or Db-Fb-Ab (Db minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
B as a passing chord to 2
A as a passing chord to 3
E as a passing chord to 6
Resolution #2
D-F#-A (D major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
B-E-G (E minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
D as a passing chord to 2
C as a passing chord to 3
G as a passing chord to 6
Resolution #3
F-A-C (F major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
D-G-Bb (G minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
F as a passing chord to 2
Eb as a passing chord to 3
Bb as a passing chord to 6
Resolution #4
Ab-C-Eb (Ab major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
Db-F-Bb (Bb minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
Ab as a passing chord to 2
Gb as a passing chord to 3
Db as a passing chord to 6
Is it all clear for you now outsretchedarm? This is my most favorite chord that I love to play, so I made sure I paid attention to the theory behind it!!!
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I would be happy to do that. I didn't think to put the starting chord first, that would be helpful, so here it is:
Resolution #1
B-D#-F# (B major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
C#-E-G (C# minor chord) or Db-Fb-Ab (Db minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
B as a passing chord to 2
A as a passing chord to 3
E as a passing chord to 6
Resolution #2
D-F#-A (D major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
B-E-G (E minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
D as a passing chord to 2
C as a passing chord to 3
G as a passing chord to 6
Resolution #3
F-A-C (F major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
D-G-Bb (G minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
F as a passing chord to 2
Eb as a passing chord to 3
Bb as a passing chord to 6
Resolution #4
Ab-C-Eb (Ab major chord)
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb (Cdim7 or C fully diminished chord)
Db-F-Bb (Bb minor chord)
This resolution of the Cdim7 works for the keys of:
Ab as a passing chord to 2
Gb as a passing chord to 3
Db as a passing chord to 6
Is it all clear for you now outsretchedarm? This is my most favorite chord that I love to play, so I made sure I paid attention to the theory behind it!!!
Once again, a video (and I say a video because it would be easier, I believe for most folk to really understand concepts) of this awesome post would put LGM a league ahead.
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hi again...
I don't have access to video equip right now....but I have done some great charts that are being very helpful for my own personal playing. Can you tell me how to post attachments onto a post?
Thanks...
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hi again...
I don't have access to video equip right now....but I have done some great charts that are being very helpful for my own personal playing. Can you tell me how to post attachments onto a post?
Thanks...
How to post attachments, no I don't know how to do that. I'd say to simply start another post with the charts. ;)
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yes, but I can only post the charts in word or .jpg format. the normal text editor where we enter our messages can't handle it, I think.
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yes, but I can only post the charts in word or .jpg format. the normal text editor where we enter our messages can't handle it, I think.
I would say, ask VTguy, he just posted chords for someone via Microsoft Word and then linked it here. He should be able to help you.
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Also, anytime you play a fully diminished chord, it naturally wants to resolve to a minor chord 1/2 step away, no matter what key you are in, no matter what scale degree you are on. Now they can resolve to other places, but the strongest resolution will be to the minor chord 1/2 step away.
Now, this is interesting cuz a fully diminished chord contains 4 notes, so essentially that means there are 4 resolutions for that one chord. It could resolve to any minor chord 1/2 step away from any note of that chord. The chord you resolve to depends on your key and what scale degree you are trying to go to. Here is an example:
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb = C fully diminished chord or Cdim7
Resolution #1
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
C#-E-G (C# minor chord) or Db-Fb-Ab (Db minor chord)
Resolution #2
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
B-E-G (E minor chord)
Resolution #3
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
D-G-Bb (G minor chord)
Resolution #4
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
Db-F-Bb (Bb minor chord)
You see that? Same starting chord, 4 different resolutions, 4 different sounds. I bet you are wondering how can there be 4 resolutions for the same chord? Well, the fully diminished chord doesn't lie in any key, so theoretically it lies in every key. It's sort of like The Matrix explanation (Mopheus talks about the Agents, "In the matrix, they are everyone, and they are no one").
I've noticed that all of the diminished chords want to resolve around the minor key like you said T-block. but it's always a minor chord a 1/2 step above one of the notes.
My question is can it be used as a passing chord for a minor chord a 1/2 step down?
Thanx T-block!
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I've noticed that all of the diminished chords want to resolve around the minor key like you said T-block. but it's always a minor chord a 1/2 step above one of the notes.
My question is can it be used as a passing chord for a minor chord a 1/2 step down?
Thanx T-block!
I am not 100% sure about this right here, but my guess is u can't or it's not practical to use a dim7 chord this way. For one thing, it doesn't really make sense to resolve the dim7 chord to a chord 1/2 step below it, cuz then u just playing in reverse. That's like doing this:
C#-E-G
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
B-D-F#
You see? You are moving backwards when you should be moving forwards. I'll have to look into what you are asking for and see if I can get a clear answer on the subject.
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C-Eb-Gb-Bbb = C fully diminished chord or Cdim7
Resolution #1
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
C#-E-G (C# minor chord) or Db-Fb-Ab (Db minor chord)
Resolution #2
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
B-E-G (E minor chord)
Resolution #3
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
D-G-Bb (G minor chord)
Resolution #4
C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
Db-F-Bb (Bb minor chord)
That is an interesting point. I believe that there are only four diminished chords. After the fourth one you have created, starting from C to Eb, the chords thereafter are just inversions of the first four chords that you have created. They have a different name because of the key your in. They will be written differently, so that other instruments (i.e bass player) will be able to follow the progression using the correct notes. If you tell or write on music, a Cdim7 and you mean an Ebdim7 your bass player, for example, may end up playing C in the bass instead of Eb in the bass.
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I've noticed that all of the diminished chords want to resolve around the minor key like you said T-block. but it's always a minor chord a 1/2 step above one of the notes.
My question is can it be used as a passing chord for a minor chord a 1/2 step down?
Thanx T-block!
I wouldn't limit the dim7 chord to only being resolvable to a minor key. Its capable of so much more than that, like in moving from a I to V, you could place either Idim7 or Vdim7 in between
That is an interesting point. I believe that there are only four diminished chords. After the fourth one you have created, starting from C to Eb, the chords thereafter are just inversions of the first four chords that you have created. They have a different name because of the key your in. They will be written differently, so that other instruments (i.e bass player) will be able to follow the progression using the correct notes. If you tell or write on music, a Cdim7 and you mean an Ebdim7 your bass player, for example, may end up playing C in the bass instead of Eb in the bass.
Actually, there are three dim7 chords. I call them Cdim7, Fdim7, and Gdim7 no matter what, but your point about knowing their inversions for the sake of keeping the bass right is well-taken.
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I wouldn't limit the dim7 chord to only being resolvable to a minor key. Its capable of so much more than that, like in moving from a I to V, you could place either Idim7 or Vdim7 in between
thanx man. It's so many ways to do one thing!
this site has been so heplful with my understanding of music. I've been playing "hit and miss" with chords on my guitar for about 3 years now. I have a better understanding of music now. thanx a Billion :D :D
Special shot out to T-block!!! ;D ;D
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I wouldn't limit the dim7 chord to only being resolvable to a minor key. Its capable of so much more than that, like in moving from a I to V, you could place either Idim7 or Vdim7 in between
Be careful how you word this, cuz dim7 doesn't resolve to any key. It naturally wants to resolve to a minor CHORD, but it can resolve to a whole lot more places than just a minor chord.
Although, I'm sure that's what u meant, just want it to be clear for people who could be misled by it.
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I thought I'd re-open this thread now that I have learned how to have files hosted elsewhere...and share my transitions chart. This chart is also included in b&w form on the "mother of all cheatsheets" thread.
Here is the grid:
(http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23610372340.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3261648)
I'd love to hear your comments on it, and sometimes it requires explaining.
I've also wanted to make a flash program that would place this in digital form, and also which would expand it to all 12 keys. If anybody knows how to program flash (or some other graphical thingy)...let me know
also...if you can't see it let me know.
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I thought I'd re-open this thread now that I have learned how to have files hosted elsewhere...and share my transitions chart. This chart is also included in b&w form on the "mother of all cheatsheets" thread.
Here is the grid:
([url]http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23610372340.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3261648[/url])
I'd love to hear your comments on it, and sometimes it requires explaining.
I've also wanted to make a flash program that would place this in digital form, and also which would expand it to all 12 keys. If anybody knows how to program flash (or some other graphical thingy)...let me know
also...if you can't see it let me know.
PLZ EXPLAIN HOW TO USE THIS!!!!! :'(
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this works for the key of C (for now)
First decide what chord you want to start with. Say to want to start with C. Find C along the column on the left hand side.
Then decide what chord you are moving "to." Say to want to go to E minor.
Slide your finger from the C chord to the right until it is under the Em. You should see:
1) an "arabic" numeral, in this case "3"
2) Three chords: Dm7, DmM7, and Cdim7
The arabic numberal represents the scale interval distance between the first and second chord. In other words E is the third of C.
The chords represent three options for creating transitions between the C and Em. In this case, you have 3 choices:
C --> Dm7 --> Em
C --> DmM7 --> Em
C --> Cdim7 --> Em
and there you go!
example 2
You want to move from Em to Am.
1) You should see"4", because in the key E major, A is the fourth of E. You have to ignore the fact that we are in C for a second.
2) You have 4 choices
Em --> EM7 --> Am
Em --> Eaug --> Am
Em --> Fdim --> Am
Em --> Bb7 --> Am
and there you go again.
If you so desired, you could even string together different transitions into a somewhat complex chord transition, like this:
C --> Cdim7 --> Em --> Bb7 --> Am
see?
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this works for the key of C (for now)
First decide what chord you want to start with. Say to want to start with C. Find C along the column on the left hand side.
Then decide what chord you are moving "to." Say to want to go to E minor.
Slide your finger from the C chord to the right until it is under the Em. You should see:
1) an "arabic" numeral, in this case "3"
2) Three chords: Dm7, DmM7, and Cdim7
The arabic numberal represents the scale interval distance between the first and second chord. In other words E is the third of C.
The chords represent three options for creating transitions between the C and Em. In this case, you have 3 choices:
C --> Dm7 --> Em
C --> DmM7 --> Em
C --> Cdim7 --> Em
and there you go!
example 2
You want to move from Em to Am.
1) You should see"4", because in the key E major, A is the fourth of E. You have to ignore the fact that we are in C for a second.
2) You have 4 choices
Em --> EM7 --> Am
Em --> Eaug --> Am
Em --> Fdim --> Am
Em --> Bb7 --> Am
and there you go again.
If you so desired, you could even string together different transitions into a somewhat complex chord transition, like this:
C --> Cdim7 --> Em --> Bb7 --> Am
see?
gotcha! Good lookin out!!
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Hello outstretchedarm !
this chart of urs was wow.
I don´t know if i understand you well.
How move to the tonic from any other point with a passing chord.
You don´t have to explain all.Just use some example:from V To I.or from VI to I. etc.
Thanks
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just find whatever chord you want on the left hand side, then slide your finger till it is under C.
for example G to C (V to I in the key of C), you could use:
G --> G7 --> C
G --> Gaug --> C
G --> Abdim --> C
G --> Db7 --> C
for Am to C:
Am --> Caug --> C
get it?