LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: Runs_N_12_Keys on September 14, 2006, 03:56:07 PM
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Who's with me it should be illegal ....
This one Church Agrees with me
(http://i10.tinypic.com/4d5zz2w.jpg)
Scales
It's the ROC
No more Transposing
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hmmmmm sounds like they are discouraging musicians who are unable to play in all twelves keys and sending them into the world of Satan where transposing is welcomed. I understand where you are getting at, but be mindful that regardless, God's will must go on through his "Ministers of Music" (Whether they can play in all keys or not)
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I say it like this hit that key when needed. I know I might be playing with my organ player and he will take it up and I barely know the song so you know I use it when needed. I do think that we should practice learning how to do that but until you can use it, but don't let it become a handicap.
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I like that sign. :)
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Dude that sign is everything
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lame.
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NO COMMENT!!!! >:( >:(
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I had this discussion just the other day with someone just the other day. I use to be hard on transposing, but I now realize that people have different goals in there playing. And there's nothing wrong with being your everyday average musician that play in 1 of 12 that wouldn't have been a musician 30 years ago. Nothing is wrong with that. :D
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Nothing's wrong until you leave your power cord at home! ;D
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There is a way to play a song written in a key you don't know, without transposing on the keyboard. It's something we do at our church. Change the key the music is written in. We do this quite a bit, sometimes for the musicians, and other times for the singers. However, when changing the key for the singers, we have to find one that the musicians can play in and is comfortable for the singers. It all works out though.
I got a nice laugh out of the sign, but it's really not anyone's place to tell a musician how to play. God is going to annoint the musician whether he transposes or not. That sign (assuming it truley exists and wasn't photoshopped) is just another point proven that there's too much formality and "this is how it has to be" in the church.
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NO COMMENT!!!! >:( >:(
I with you on this one "B3hammondboy"..... :-X :)
PianoWiz...
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If you saw your pastor weekend and week out preaching straight from a book entitled "52 Sermons Vol 1" weekend and week out. Then 5 years later, he was still preaching from a book entitled "52 Sermons Vol V", it would be pretty hard to believe that he was Called by God to preach.
Have you ever seen a Classical Musician use a transpose button?? In Gospel our standards are sooooo low that people actually start getting mad if you talk against transposing. As oppose to other genres think its the norm to play in all keys.
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Have you ever seen a Classical Musician use a transpose button??
I like to play classical music. I sometimes play classical for worship songs.
No transpose button on a Grand piano.
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There's no transpose button either of my C3's. ?/?
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If you saw your pastor weekend and week out preaching straight from a book entitled "52 Sermons Vol 1" weekend and week out. Then 5 years later, he was still preaching from a book entitled "52 Sermons Vol V", it would be pretty hard to believe that he was Called by God to preach.
Have you ever seen a Classical Musician use a transpose button?? In Gospel our standards are sooooo low that people actually start getting mad if you talk against transposing. As oppose to other genres think its the norm to play in all keys.
Great point "4hisglory"..... :).....but why is that..... ?/?.......
Why are the standards for gospel musicians are soooooo low......???
PianoWiz...
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Because now-a-days churches are so desperate for musicians that most of them don't really care how u play, as long as they got some music in they church. This sends a bad message that it ain't important to actually be a "musician", all u have to do is provide music by any means necessary, even cheating.
Who's with me it should be illegal ....
This one Church Agrees with me
([url]http://i10.tinypic.com/4d5zz2w.jpg[/url])
Scales
It's the ROC
No more Transposing
I will gladly co-sign on this. The T-button has messed a lot of us up and it's time we get back to the way they did it back in the day. Either the piano or the organ, no T-button on either so u got no choice but to learn every key. It's true that you may be playing to the glory of God, but you need to play skillfully, and that means learn to play in all keys. Don't put a limit on yourself, if you put forth that effort, I'm sure God will help you out.
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I have no problem with musicians using the "T-Bottom" as long as they don't use it as a crutch.
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If you saw your pastor weekend and week out preaching straight from a book entitled "52 Sermons Vol 1" weekend and week out. Then 5 years later, he was still preaching from a book entitled "52 Sermons Vol V", it would be pretty hard to believe that he was Called by God to preach.
Have you ever seen a Classical Musician use a transpose button?? In Gospel our standards are sooooo low that people actually start getting mad if you talk against transposing. As oppose to other genres think its the norm to play in all keys.
(MY) Translation.......... If you have been playing the Keys for over 10 Years and can only play in C# Ab and Eb (IN MY MY MY MY MY......MY OPINION) something is WRONG...
Now I created this thread for humorous purposes But the content of it is meant whole heartedly Most Cats abuse the T Button(Plain and Simple)
TRANSPOSING 101
QUESTION
Your in Praise Service on your Triton Pro and Sister Offkey starts Singing "Let it Be real" in A natural.. you transpose to Ab and get thru the Song.....The next week Sister Offkey sings the Same Song in the Same Key What do you do?????
A) Play it in A Natural because after the first time she sung it you immediately went home and practiced in that key for hours
B) Front like you can't get any sound out of the keyboard to avoid playing
C) Call Run_N_12_Keys from Rochester NY to come and assist you
D) Transpose to Ab for the 2nd time
It makes me sick to my stomach to see some of these Arrogant Key players that can only Beast in 2 keys and got to nerve to get defensive when you call them out for not perfecting their Craft ......... That makes no sense to me and no matter how well you articulate or Biblify (thats a word? lol) it .......... I will not understand it ..
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Because now-a-days churches are so desperate for musicians that most of them don't really care how u play, as long as they got some music in they church. This sends a bad message that it ain't important to actually be a "musician", all u have to do is provide music by any means necessary, even cheating.
I hear ya' LOUD & CLEAR... :)
PianoWiz...
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First of all....Everyone should know that is not a real sign...just go to chuchsigngenerator.com....Secondly....I do have a problem with musicians whose use that button as a crutch, but the transpose button was a blessing for me and it helped me to learn ALL of the keys....Hopefully, this can be a blessing and help someone, but when I first started playing keys I would target a different key every Sunday service until I perfected the key and became fluent..1st Sunday I would transpose every song that was sang to B natural for example and play EVERY song in B...The next Sunday I would target D for every song or C or F# on and on.....One key per Sunday until I got all of them down...I now know how to play in every key without the transpose because of that method...I guess it's something God gave to me because it has really helped. That is the only way I feel transpose can be of a help to your learning...I have no problem with transpose buttons for those who are just there to play and are not really serious...To each his own...I guess :)
God Bless
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Transposers ... well
I was playing with a transposer, and he was keeping up with me. I was, wow, God has blessed him, and most of all, he has been practicing. Then, I was asked to play a song. So I jumped of the organ to play the paino, and told the bass player, the key of the song. Well, when I start playing the intro which should be in Db, the keyboard was transposed to F.
What does a real keybopardist do in this case? Well, I moved to F and continued the song. As for the transposer, I'm giving him lessons every Saturday.
-Al
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Transposers ... well
I was playing with a transposer, and he was keeping up with me. I was, wow, God has blessed him, and most of all, he has been practicing. Then, I was asked to play a song. So I jumped of the organ to play the paino, and told the bass player, the key of the song. Well, when I start playing the intro which should be in Db, the keyboard was transposed to F.
What does a real keybopardist do in this case? Well, I moved to F and continued the song. As for the transposer, I'm giving him lessons every Saturday.
-Al
I too Al, have been in this same situation several times and I have done the same as you done. I just went on and played the song in the key that the keyboard was in. Bishop Cole
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I saw someone post soemthing about 52 sermons volume one......When I first started, I will playing songs in the original key. When I realized what key I was most comfortable with, I begin using the transpose button. I have the ability to play in almost every key and I can learn a song in its original key but I can do more in C#. What I am trying to say is that God blesses me and I am annointed....When I transpose, my playing reaches people and when I don't transpose, my playing reaches people. There are a lot of things going on with in the church that should not be going on now but we still practice it. And to tell the truth, I know a lot of "Ministers of Music". I would rather have someone who is annointed and is playing truly for God who has to transpose to carry on service than someone who knows every key but plays for self cause or just playing to receive the Glory.(And I know that for a fact)
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Well me Personally I don't use the T-button b/c i can play in all keys... but i have been noted to use the T-button on a keybord because it's convenient, not because i need but it's just something that i do sumtimes when im on a keybord!!!!! now when im on an organ, even the newer models with the transpose, i don't use it cause i don't like too... Weird??? yeah it is but this is me... So if u wanna use transpose thats u, but don't become so 'laxed that u depend on it or as i heard some others say "use it as a cruch.." Because ur just limiting ur self to never got pass the Transpose Button!!! You should want to perfect ur talent in as many ways possible!!!! just my take!!!
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All I can say is WOW!
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I too Al, have been in this same situation several times and I have done the same as you done. I just went on and played the song in the key that the keyboard was in. Bishop Cole
That had happen to me too many times, but it don't bother me at all.
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All I can say is WOW!
WELCOME TO LGM!!!
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I'll fess up, I've used the xpose button in my beginning days.
But yeh, what happens when the power goes out and theres just a piano?
and BTW, i once went to a church that has a hammond WITH A TRANSPOSE SWITCH....
i was like,(click link to see)
http://wso.williams.edu/orgs/choir/MUSIC/previous-years/Carl%20Orff%20-%20Carmina%20Burana%20-%20O%20Fortuna%20(Intro).mp3 (http://wso.williams.edu/orgs/choir/MUSIC/previous-years/Carl%20Orff%20-%20Carmina%20Burana%20-%20O%20Fortuna%20(Intro).mp3)
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
It wasnt one of those Midi joints. It was a real hammond with a crazy retrofit. boy, I wanted to join that church.....
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(MY) Translation.......... If you have been playing the Keys for over 10 Years and can only play in C# Ab and Eb (IN MY MY MY MY MY......MY OPINION) something is WRONG...
Now I created this thread for humorous purposes But the content of it is meant whole heartedly Most Cats abuse the T Button(Plain and Simple)
It makes me sick to my stomach to see some of these Arrogant Key players that can only Beast in 2 keys and got to nerve to get defensive when you call them out for not perfecting their Craft ......... That makes no sense to me and no matter how well you articulate or Biblify (thats a word? lol) it .......... I will not understand it ..
Preach dat thang!!!!!!!!
They're LAZY, and instead of putting in time in ALL keys, they come up with fancy nonsense like "God will still anoint transposers" and "church formality" :D :D :D
But you know what? They're only hurting themselves. Because transposing kills your ear. If you transpose everything to one key, it handicaps you until you decide to break free and master your gift.
If you put a transposer on a Piano, they'll sweat like Rush Limbaugh at a Weight Watchers Convention. Why? Because they simply can't play in every key.
Fake it until you make it. Go through the fire. Play in E and A and B. You're going to play a few sour notes, and you may sound bland, but eventually, you'll be able to sit down and play anything in any key.
Don't make fancy excuses like "God anoints everyone", because you're only hurting yourself.
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I can't hate Hustleman. I personally haven't mastered all keys yet, YET. I'm hungry right now. I practice for hours trying to get these chords down in all keys. I have to say on the other hand. I've been in services where the organist could not play in the key the singer was singing. That key challenged me as well, but when I transposed and picked them up, the whole mood of the service changed. People started praising, the singer looked over and smiled and began to sing like never before. After service I told the organist, "WE need to practice some more". If you love the keys, you'll sacrafice the time to get better. I can't describe the feeling of getting better. Man it feels good! :)
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I can't hate Hustleman. I personally haven't mastered all keys yet, YET. I'm hungry right now. I practice for hours trying to get these chords down in all keys. I have to say on the other hand. I've been in services where the organist could not play in the key the singer was singing. That key challenged me as well, but when I transposed and picked them up, the whole mood of the service changed. People started praising, the singer looked over and smiled and began to sing like never before. After service I told the organist, "WE need to practice some more". If you love the keys, you'll sacrafice the time to get better. I can't describe the feeling of getting better. Man it feels good! :)
I ain't mad atcha. I have a problem with people who have been playing for 7 YEARS and won't even TOUCH playing in E.
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um, "E"?
:o :o :o :o :o :o
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um, "E"?
:o :o :o :o :o :o
OF COURSE!!!!
:D :D :D
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I find the sign snobbish...
Prideful, egotistical and downright sinful by nature.
My opinion is this:
Pay attention to what you are playing, don't concern yourself with how another brother needs to make things work for themselves and quite judging.
I play saxophone as a primary. I also play keyboards. There have been time that I have come in at a show's call time and the singer has come down with some funky voice tribulation. Now, I am well versed in theory. I am also no slouch on the keys, but let's say that I have been rehearsing this piece for a week in the key of Eb and now their is NO WAY the soloist will ever hit those notes. I opt to help her out and drop the key.
I could with one hour or less time:
1) Try to play all the key lines that I have worked out in Eb in this new key, hoping I do not sound like I just stepped on a hand grenade.
2) Transpose my keyboards to the new key and play as usual. No one is the wiser and I have provided the SUPPORT the singer needed.
If I play on a piano, then I would have to sit down a rehash the chords on some paper just so I would get the changes right.
The transposition feature on modern keyboards does not have to be a bad thing...
Try not to become elitist... :)
Peace,
Wolfram
P.S. I do play in all twelve keys....
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I find the sign snobbish...
Prideful, egotistical and downright sinful by nature.
My opinion is this:
Pay attention to what you are playing, don't concern yourself with how another brother needs to make things work for themselves and quite judging.
I play saxophone as a primary. I also play keyboards. There have been time that I have come in at a show's call time and the singer has come down with some funky voice tribulation. Now, I am well versed in theory. I am also no slouch on the keys, but let's say that I have been rehearsing this piece for a week in the key of Eb and now their is NO WAY the soloist will ever hit those notes. I opt to help her out and drop the key.
I could with one hour or less time:
1) Try to play all the key lines that I have worked out in Eb in this new key, hoping I do not sound like I just stepped on a hand grenade.
2) Transpose my keyboards to the new key and play as usual. No one is the wiser and I have provided the SUPPORT the singer needed.
If I play on a piano, then I would have to sit down a rehash the chords on some paper just so I would get the changes right.
The transposition feature on modern keyboards does not have to be a bad thing...
Try not to become elitist... :)
Peace,
Wolfram
P.S. I do play in all twelve keys....
Jesus. Talk about missing the point. :D :D :D
We're not talking about somebody who learns a song in one key (usually the original key) then has to play it, on the fly, in another key.
We're talking about someone who is Cold Blooded in 3 keys and simply can't play in other keys.
And the Transpose button can be WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!
YES I SAID IT!!!!!!
I'll take my Ipod, sit at my keyboard. I put the earbuds in my ear, and the Keyboard headphones over them. I adjust the volume on the Ipod and the keyboard till neither one overshadows the other (I'm showin yall my secrets!!!). I listen to a song, find out what the orginal key is, and play along. I then transpose other keys to the original key! This way I can learn the song in all 12 keys. :)
The danger in this is that it hampers your ear. The huge positive is that you can play the song right along with the track, in every key, and not sound off.
There are EXTREME circumstances, like the one you listed, and then there's plain laziness.
If you're using the Transpose because you can't play in every key....and you're not TRYING to learn how to play in every key....then the Transpose button is hindering your progress as a musician.
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Just something to ponder. Do you think the same concept of transposing could be used when someone does not learn a song note for note and chord for chord?
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Howbout that. This is coming from someone who has not mastered all keys yet. (But is trying). Transposing can help as much as it can hurt. DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF. Learning a song chord for chord and note for note is fine. But why limit yourself. The courtesy it to learn the song the way it was recorded, then add your own flavor. What bothers me is when people say "that's not how they did it on the album". At what point do we allow the annointing to play a part in how we play or sing a song?
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now thats a phrase that gets my goat....
eesh.
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WOW!
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I feel ya!
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Again, I would have to address the situation as to what business or care is it of anyone else's what crutch someone uses to play music. Guitar players have been tuning down and using capos for decades.
I still think that the point here is a little snobbish. I believe that it is stellar if you can whiz around in twelve keys and if you can play as comfortably in Db as you can in E, then more power to you.
I do not think it really makes any difference to the congregation whether or not the keyboard player hit transpose or not, only to your pride.
All musicians should strive for growth, not all musicians are created equal. That being said, I would caution placing either one's self on a pedestal or looking down on other musicians based on the pair of personal talent glasses you are wearing.. I bet there are players out there that could smoke some of you by using the transposition button... It is not all cut and dry. Do you think it matters to those that are listening? or to God, to whom this is all going toward anyway?
It is pride... and that never leads to anything healthy.
Wolfram
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Now there's a point.
It is an accepted thing for guitarist to use capos. in essence, transposing the guitar.
And yes, I'm sure God Has no problem with it.
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Again, I would have to address the situation as to what business or care is it of anyone else's what crutch someone uses to play music. Guitar players have been tuning down and using capos for decades.
I still think that the point here is a little snobbish. I believe that it is stellar if you can whiz around in twelve keys and if you can play as comfortably in Db as you can in E, then more power to you.
I do not think it really makes any difference to the congregation whether or not the keyboard player hit transpose or not, only to your pride.
All musicians should strive for growth, not all musicians are created equal. That being said, I would caution placing either one's self on a pedestal or looking down on other musicians based on the pair of personal talent glasses you are wearing.. I bet there are players out there that could smoke some of you by using the transposition button... It is not all cut and dry. Do you think it matters to those that are listening? or to God, to whom this is all going toward anyway?
It is pride... and that never leads to anything healthy.
Wolfram
Firstly, for you to say: "not all musicians are created equal" is probably the biggest cop-out i've seen on this board.
You're wrong. All musicians ARE created equal.......WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF MUSIC.
When you start, you have a choice. Either go full force and try to master your instrument, or do things half-way.
This thread should not DISCOURAGE people who use the transpose, but more ENcourage them to step out of their comfort zone and learn how to play in every key.
I play better in Ab and Db than I play in any other keys. HOWEVER, if somebody gets up and sings in B, I can follow them. It won't sound as good as if they sang in Ab, but I can efffectively follow them.
This is Learngospelmusic.com man. We're here to encourage each other and build each other up. If I think (no, I KNOW) that transposing will benefit you in the short term, but hinder your ear in the long term, I'm going to say so.
TRANSPOSING WILL BENEFIT YOU IN THE SHORT TERM, BUT HINDER YOUR EAR IN THE LONG TERM.
There may be EMERGENCY situations where you need it, but for the most part, try to become proficient in every key.
It ain't pride to tell the truth in an attempt to build up your brother/sister. It's careless not to.
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You are definitely entitled to your opinion.
God gifts us in varying degrees. While at music school, I saw that in abundance... You can teach music to anybody, but that does not make all musicians equal when it comes to talent.
I do not worry much about what my fellow musician is doing with his electronics. As long as he is playing and it sounds goo, it matters very little to me.
My father played guitar in some big name big bands... He capo'd... Huh, maybe he sucked too... tune down their basses and guitars so that they could save the singers voices but still play all the power licks in the right keys for them... some famous people there... they must have sucked...
I guess this is sort of like joining that one elite group in high school. You are either in or not.
Music is not complicated... People make it complicated... I have been playing for 25 years and I can tell you that it has NEVER come up whether or not the keyboard player was playing using the transpose button.
If a musician wants to grow in music, then he will choose to learn to play in other keys. If he is content in the knowledge he already has and nobody seems to be lacking for it... That is also his or her choice.
Don't make this such an issue because truthfully it is not. I play sax in twelve keys. I play keyboards in twelve keys.
It is more of an issue with sax because there is no transpose button.
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P.S. I am fully aware that this site is dedicated to LEARNING and I would encourage anyone to continue to do so. I just wanted to point out that making comments like "ban this or forbid that" is not productive. Not everyone is in this for the same reasons. Some want to perfect their game, some just play for fun. Some on this board are pro, some would like to be, and others are content to be hobbyists. Broad "banning" statements without considering everythin is just plain ignorant. That church sign was the biggest 'sign' of that ignorance I had ever seen...
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Howbout that. This is coming from someone who has not mastered all keys yet. (But is trying). Transposing can help as much as it can hurt. DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF. Learning a song chord for chord and note for note is fine. But why limit yourself. The courtesy it to learn the song the way it was recorded, then add your own flavor. What bothers me is when people say "that's not how they did it on the album". At what point do we allow the annointing to play a part in how we play or sing a song?
I like your motivation and your will to grow in your music ministry. I would like to challenge you to learn a song chord for chord and note for note. Adding your own flavor is very important and it is what makes you unique. On the other hand it can be limiting if this process is applied to every song you learn. Learning a song note for note/ transcribing is a technique that is difficult at first but will enhance your ear and your playing ability as a whole. If you could transcribe a song and add your flavor it would elevate your music ministry to a whole new level.
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God gifts us in varying degrees. While at music school, I saw that in abundance... You can teach music to anybody, but that does not make all musicians equal when it comes to talent.
Our problem is that we don't seek excellence. We want a quick fix. We want to be able to do some sexy fancy lick and make people go :o
It's not about talent. It's about DESIRE. Talent? Man, if you practice enough, ANYTHING is possible. Talent? You're as good as you WANT to be. If you WANT to be great, practice enough and you will be.
Transposing hurts you. What if your keyboard breaks down and you go to another church with your pastor? Will you ask the house musician where the transpose is? He WILL look at you like ::) :-\
BUT I DO understand where you're coming from when you say that some people are just hobbyists and don't take this quite as seriously as others. It's true. There are people who only play the Organ (where there IS no transpose) or Keys as a secondary instrument and not as a primary one.
I maintain that if ANYONE is playing in the House of the Lord, they SHOULD try to perfect their gift, but I understand that that isn't always the case.
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Desire sometimes is not enough...
Just because somebody WANTS to be a player, doesn't MAKE them a player. All the practice in the world won't help you at all if you have no God - given skills... I know many players that practice all the time but still do not have IT... Maybe my life experiences are different than yours...
Music is a personal thing. You either get it... or you don't. You can be book smart about it, but that doesn't make you a musician, only a scientist.
The average musician is happy in their mediocrity. That is why they are average. That is why it is none of my business as to whether or not they are playing with transposition help or not... My journey is mine, theirs is theirs. The stopping points are different.
Peace,
Wolfram
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The average musician is happy in their mediocrity. That is why they are average.
We certainly agree on this. :)
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Wow, Tough Love???????? Learn to play in all keys, You'll find it Rewarding.
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Wow, Tough Love???????? Learn to play in all keys, You'll find it Rewarding.
;)
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people fail to realize the situations that alot of musicains are in. Alot of times th musicain is the preacher's kid (PK) and had to jump on the organ/keyboard because there was no one else. In that case, probably with little instruction and ALOT of God's blessing, they started to develope. So lets say, they have been playing for a year, with little to none instruction and know 6 keys, and someone sings a song in a different key than rehearsed (I say this because it happens alot). Is the transpose button wrong? Not it if was in the middle of service and you didn't want to be a hinderance by plucking around or runnin IV-V-I to death. AS LONG AS THAT MUSICAIN GOES HOME AND LEARNS/PRACTICES in the key they didn't learn, I think it's ok. It's a process to become skilled, just don't let the T- button slow that process.
I wrote a song a while back
(****to the tune "Jesus,The Great I Am*****)
We don't have use that button anymore
We don't have to fake, the keys we don't know
Practice will help you
Learn all the keys
Either that, or play the B-3!
Be Blessed :)
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You are definitely entitled to your opinion.
God gifts us in varying degrees. While at music school, I saw that in abundance... You can teach music to anybody, but that does not make all musicians equal when it comes to talent.
I do not worry much about what my fellow musician is doing with his electronics. As long as he is playing and it sounds goo, it matters very little to me.
My father played guitar in some big name big bands... He capo'd... Huh, maybe he sucked too... tune down their basses and guitars so that they could save the singers voices but still play all the power licks in the right keys for them... some famous people there... they must have sucked...
I guess this is sort of like joining that one elite group in high school. You are either in or not.
Music is not complicated... People make it complicated... I have been playing for 25 years and I can tell you that it has NEVER come up whether or not the keyboard player was playing using the transpose button.
If a musician wants to grow in music, then he will choose to learn to play in other keys. If he is content in the knowledge he already has and nobody seems to be lacking for it... That is also his or her choice.
Don't make this such an issue because truthfully it is not. I play sax in twelve keys. I play keyboards in twelve keys.
It is more of an issue with sax because there is no transpose button.
I got something different from your post than everyone else. It seems as though it is not the act of using the transpose but but rather the judgement and negetive impressions that a musician faces when amongst his peers. It goes beyond the transpose button. It could be the skill level, who you play for, runs, progressions, what kind of keyboard you have. I was recently in an environment of musicians that seemed more like a competition.
Personally, I like to see musicians profient in all keys but I would not expect someone's goals to be identical to mine.
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I posted a clip of a concert we did this year, where Joe Pace came and did a workshop. The dude on the keys was tearing it up, but someone on here pointed out that he had transposed. I'm thinking like, but are you playing with Joe Pace?
LOL
Even though I don't transpose now, transposing isn't going to stop the service, and that's a prime example that it doesn't even matter to some big name artists.
It's true that you SHOULD try to learn all the keys, if this is your calling, but if it's not, in my opinion, just getting by is really enough. I can play a few instruments, but I'm not trying to master all of them. I just get by on the drums, and that's ok for me. It doesn't matter if I don't know all the rudiments. I just play when I NEED to. Now the problem is when you act like you're called to do a certain thing and don't prepare yourself for it fully. If you feel God is calling you to play piano then you need to learn all the keys....otherwise, hit that transpose and keep going. That's my opinion.
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I got something different from your post than everyone else. It seems as though it is not the act of using the transpose but but rather the judgement and negetive impressions that a musician faces when amongst his peers. It goes beyond the transpose button. It could be the skill level, who you play for, runs, progressions, what kind of keyboard you have. I was recently in an environment of musicians that seemed more like a competition.
Personally, I like to see musicians profient in all keys but I would not expect someone's goals to be identical to mine.
Thank you... That was my entire point.
I feel like a light bulb finally went on out there. ;D
Peace,
Wolfram
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The dude on the keys was tearing it up, but someone on here pointed out that he had transposed. I'm thinking like, but are you playing with Joe Pace?
now that's a point.
If I'm the MD of an event, and i see my keyboard guy transposes, as long as he doesnt screw up, who cares. Dont disturb this groove...(wow, flashback..)
for years, when i was getting my chops together, since I was a "Midi Master" I finessed the "art" of the transpose. especially when was on a 4-synth rig.
(http://myspace-602.vo.llnwd.net/00688/20/68/688818602_m.jpg)
(something like that..it's an OLD pic.)
Does that mean I call for mediocrity in the craft? NO. Do I still practice my rudiments? YES.
That's just what I had to do for that moment, for that time. and it got the job done.
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So basically, we're all saying the same thing.
If you're SERIOUS about playing, learn how to play in all 12 keys.
If you're not really serious about playing, or you just started and haven't had the time to learn all the keys yet, then do what you need to get by. Not just because then you can say "Hey I can play in all 12 keys!", but because once you learn a song that has a pretty sounding progression, you can use that progression in different keys. So when you know how to play in all keys, you'll eventually see how everything is connected. It'll click. When it does, you'll start using one progression in 3 different keys. lol. It'll all come together, and in the long run you'll be a better musician for it.
I would ENCOURAGE anyone who isn't serious to become serious about it if you're playing in the house of the Lord. But to each his own, right?
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Hustleman, I can see outside the Supreme Courts protesting!
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Here's my two cents........
I am guilty of using the t-button, but I DOO play in all keys!!!!! I might know how to play in all keys.. but If i don't feel like movin' my fingers all that much up down the board.. I juz transpose... I mean Sweet Lord Have mercy is it a CRIME!?!?!?!?!?!?
now look... I don't have the Holy Ghost yet, but if i t-pose or not, GOD's sprit is in my playing, he knows anyway if I play in all keys or not... He juz wants you to play for HIM and HIM only, EVEN if I am a t-pose user and y'all don't like it... OH WELL SO BE IT!!!!!!! I'm playing to please GOD and NOT Y'ALL(no offense... :))
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Why r u so against transposing. Some musicians need to transpose until they can pplay iin all keys.
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Why r u so against transposing. Some musicians need to transpose until they can pplay iin all keys.
Read all the posts bruh. We already said that there's nothing wrong with transposing if you're a beginner and you're playing in a service.
But when someone has been playing for 10 years,somebody sings a SIMPLE worship song, and you reach over for the Transpose? Something's wrong there.
I am guilty of using the t-button, but I DOO play in all keys!!!!! I might know how to play in all keys.. but If i don't feel like movin' my fingers all that much up down the board.. I juz transpose... I mean Sweet Lord Have mercy is it a CRIME!?!?!?!?!?!?
Riiiiiiight. THATS the reason you transpose. :D :D :D
Look, I love music. I believe in perfecting whatever gift is given to you. It's not a right but a PRIVILEGE to minister in the House of the Lord.
Perfect your craft. Work at it. Practice at it. Don't stop till you're highly proficient, and even THEN don't stop!
Besides.......This IS the Organ room. Only these new Organs have Transposes on 'em. Even if you DO have a new Organ, what happens when you visit a church that doesn't? (and MOST don't)
Then what do you do? (especially if you practiced with the choir in a key like B, then transposed to an easier one.)
If you're a beginner, and you're playing in a service, that's one thing. But if you've been playing for a decade, and STILL reach for the transpose on simple songs, you're not serious about your gift.
So why play for the Lord? That's how I feel.
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Why r u so against transposing. Some musicians need to transpose until they can pplay iin all keys.
Greetings!
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Yea. Our church, when I was in Detroit, had a Hammond XC3, one of those digital ones that transpose and did MIDI. We had a module connected to it, so you could play organ on one manual and piano on another or use acoustic bass on the pedals instead of organ bass. Anyway, I used to use the transpose, but none of the churches we visited had the new organ. They had the old traditional B3/C3/A100s, so I had to learn to play without it. After taking 5 years away from playing, I had to pull the T button back out, but I don't have to use it now.
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Besides.......This IS the Organ room. Only these new Organs have Transposes on 'em. Even if you DO have a new Organ, what happens when you visit a church that doesn't? (and MOST don't)
Yes, this was the organ room, however the sign on that church did not say "Organists only..." and for those of us that enjoy playing multiple instruments, we maybe hitting this forum from a different angle. The earlier posts did not state this was organ specific. In fact, keyboards were mentioned many times... ;)
I could not imagine transposing a real organ... It would feel well,.... just weird. ;D
Wolfram
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Yes, this was the ogan room, however the sign on that church did not say "Organists only..." and for those of us that enjoy playing multiple instruments, we maybe hitting this forum from a different angle. The earlier posts did not state this was organ specific. In fact, keyboards were mentioned many times... ;)
I could not imagine transposing a real organ... It would feel well,.... just weird. ;D
Wolfram
Agreed!
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truth be told i didnt really know how to play until i started playin in every key plain and simple you are merely playing patterns if you only play in one key a whole new world opens up when you realize that there is no real key just melody and harmonic treatment that transcends keys but you cant know that until you can play in all keys
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truth be told i didnt really know how to play until i started playin in every key plain and simple you are merely playing patterns if you only play in one key a whole new world opens up when you realize that there is no real key just melody and harmonic treatment that transcends keys but you cant know that until you can play in all keys
Glory!
Yes. When you only play in one key, you do that: PLAY IN THE KEY. But when you can play in every key, you can step OUTSIDE of the key you're playing in, and then come back in. You play chords that are out of the key. You take Major Chords and make them minor and Vice Versa. Because you know every key, you're not bound by the 1,4,5. You're free.
Man, I would NEVER attack another young musician, because I'M a young musician. But I WOULD encourage everybody to learn how to play in every key. It will help you SO MUCH.
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I can testify to those new worlds opening up. I haven't mastered all keys, but as someone said, if you're serious, you'll stay away from the button. I used to be a fein for that T-button and truth be told, other musicians (some) look down on cats that use it. The feeling of playing "Let God Arise and My Enemies Be Scattered" and not transposing....................UNDESCRI BABLE. You actually feel the results of hard practice and much prayer come through your music. Not that I play for other people, I play for God, but I personally see the respect level go up from experienced muscians when they played with me before and I transposed. If you're gonna be serious, BE SERIOUS. If not, don't come on the scene like you're fresh off of tour with Chick Korea and Joe Sample. ;)
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I'll fess up, I've used the xpose button in my beginning days.
But yeh, what happens when the power goes out and theres just a piano?
and BTW, i once went to a church that has a hammond WITH A TRANSPOSE SWITCH....
i was like,(click link to see)
[url]http://wso.williams.edu/orgs/choir/MUSIC/previous-years/Carl%20Orff%20-%20Carmina%20Burana%20-%20O%20Fortuna%20(Intro).mp3[/url] ([url]http://wso.williams.edu/orgs/choir/MUSIC/previous-years/Carl%20Orff%20-%20Carmina%20Burana%20-%20O%20Fortuna%20(Intro).mp3)[/url]
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
It wasnt one of those Midi joints. It was a real hammond with a crazy retrofit. boy, I wanted to join that church.....
Wolfman - This was just TOO FUNNY!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Me personally, i don't transpose but if someone else wants to do it, then let them. U never know, it that person that transpose my be the person that God wants to use to bring people to christ through his music. If u ban that, it will be like going against God's will.