LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Drummers => Topic started by: D-Nice on October 06, 2006, 04:40:21 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf6WKdIEVb8&NR
found this one.
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Well, he's good, but he's not one of my favorites... I'm not impressed...
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I will say this.... That clip did not REALLY do the Bubinga kit justice. That kit sound way more powerful in person. I (and J_Kay) have had the previledge of playing it a couple times and it is an experience in sound.
No offense intended but that kit should be demonstrated by someone with technical chops and independence whom knows how to pull the sound/tone out of a kit (Harvey Mason, Bill Bruford, Kenny Aronoff ). I am glad that he at such a young age has gotten to do a Big League promo though.
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There goes that pickiness again (No Offense). I gotta be real with you, there's absoultely nothing wrong with that clip. He played a skillful solo, he wasn't repetitive, and everything was clean and crisp, now come on guys give the man break...
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There goes that pickiness again (No Offense). I gotta be real with you, there's absoultely nothing wrong with that clip. He played a skillful solo, he wasn't repetitive, and everything was clean and crisp, now come on guys give the man break...
That's not being picky Lil bro. It's an honest opinion. I found that clip quite average, And the drums had no tonal qualities. Dude was all power no finesse. But, he can play. But I was not impressed. I seen him play better
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...well I like the pattern. I actually like it a lot. While the pattern displayed may seem new to some of you, this pattern is used a lot by the drummers from Cuba and of course African hand drummers. With that said, it would've sounded so good with the hihat splashes that I was talking about in that other "Spanky" thread. Trust me, I know.
...by the way, I never said the dude couldn't play. I just suggested for him to use hihat splashes and to go on and open up that hihat. I've heard this same pattern before and know how full sounding it can be.
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There goes that pickiness again (No Offense). I gotta be real with you, there's absoultely nothing wrong with that clip. He played a skillful solo, he wasn't repetitive, and everything was clean and crisp, now come on guys give the man break...
First off no one talked about Spanky's playing....
Second, get out and see/study some more experience drummers. Study them not look to be amazed. Learn proper technique so that you'll know how to recognize and appreciate it when it's there and know when it's not.
Spanky did his thing on the clip to the level he could do it but he is not quite there yet on some of the things he attempted. He is not solid as he would like to be on the polys and independence. As of yet he does not know how to pull the sound out of a kit. When you can do that you can pull the sound out of an untuned kit... there is a way and a place that you strike the drum. Study Practice the article in Modern Drummer - January 2006. Also Dave Weckle - How t o Develop Your Sound, Also reread the previously posted article from Jojo Mayer's site when he tells of his conversation with Dennis on the subject....
...Study instead of jumping up all emotional. Before before you can make a point you need to have your facts straight. I study what's right in drumset/drumming (in this case) so that I can teach what is right and proper... that is my gift and one of my callings (teaching). Check your self.
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WE ALL NEED CRITQUE IN HOW WE DO THINGS, THAT WILL ALWAYS GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO STRIVE FOR.
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HEY SABE & J FUNKY, THIS ONE SHOULD GET LOCKED, THINGS COULD GET UGLY.
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HEY SABE & J FUNKY, THIS ONE SHOULD GET LOCKED, THINGS COULD GET UGLY.
Everybody can state their opinions in respectful ways. You cannot just let your emotions jump out and speak with no facts.
Now people going over the top and disrespecting others will be deleted. Simple. This is a good thread for folks to enjoy and learn from and that is what is going to happen.
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This is a healthy thread. Don't lock it...
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There goes that pickiness again (No Offense). I gotta be real with you, there's absoultely nothing wrong with that clip. He played a skillful solo, he wasn't repetitive, and everything was clean and crisp, now come on guys give the man break...
In this day and age, it will be rare to find where everyone likes the same things. It's just human nature. What appeals to you will not always appeal to me. They are speaking for themselves and no one can take that from them. Everyone is going to have their opinion, yet you might not agree. The good thing about it is that you really dont have to. You know your personal tastes and dislikes and that is really all that matters.
To get back on the topic, Spank is my boy and he did his thing. This clip gets on the Pod.
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First off no one talked about Spanky's playing....
Second, get out and see/study some more experience drummers. Study them not look to be amazed. Learn proper technique so that you'll know how to recognize and appreciate it when it's there and know when it's not.
Spanky did his thing on the clip to the level he could do it but he is not quite there yet on some of the things he attempted. He is not solid as he would like to be on the polys and independence. As of yet he does not know how to pull the sound out of a kit. When you can do that you can pull the sound out of an untuned kit... there is a way and a place that you strike the drum. Study Practice the article in Modern Drummer - January 2006. Also Dave Weckle - How t o Develop Your Sound, Also reread the previously posted article from Jojo Mayer's site when he tells of his conversation with Dennis on the subject....
...Study instead of jumping up all emotional. Before before you can make a point you need to have your facts straight. I study what's right in drumset/drumming (in this case) so that I can teach what is right and proper... that is my gift and one of my callings (teaching). Check your self.
Hold up Sabe, no one is getting emotional, but I dont understand how you can take a clip from one of the top gospel drummers in the industry and rip it up and take out all of the imperfections. Trust me I know tons of drummers who cant come close to pulling off something tasteful like that. But check it out I respect your opinion so I'm not going to bash you anymore about the situation, I'm simply going to ask you to give everyone an example of what exactly you're talking about. It just seeems like every drummer from Dave Weckl, to Denis Chambers to Spanky to Yanh Hunter whoever....drummers that I've seen videos of they hit the drums the exact same way and get the exact same sound out of the drum, depending on how hard they hit it, and how it's tuned. But I dont know maybe my musical ears arent big enough yet...
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HERE WE GO AGAIN....LOL
You know what's repetitive??? When folks get in their feelings about somebody else's opinion/comment. Hmmmm The last time I checked God gave each of us a brain to use and operate with. Check this out, we all see things differently...WOW what a concept...you mean I can/will hear/see something different than the next man??...Uh Yeah!!!!
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I love Spank, but there's no way he hit's the drums like Dennis Chambers or Omar Hakim or any other jazz great, watching a video & listening to the tone are two different things
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Spanky has a great talent. I do believe that we agree on that. His upside is rediculous. He is one of the most talented drummers around. First thing I have heard and seen Spanky play better than the clip we just seen. In the same sense the clip was nice. Just like all of us, he is still developing as a drummer. Besides a shed and a performance this is the first time I have seen Spanky just play besides the clip at NAMM and Nissan Stewart's clinic clip in Cali. There is no question Spanky has the skill and talent to do what some of us only dream abou on the set. I believe that Spanky is learning the art of doing a drum solo. Drum soloing is a total different art/aspect of playing. There is no question that Spanky is a great musician when it comes to playing with artists and getting a feel of a band his ability and talent is unquestioned. He is beginning and just starting working on drum solos, you noticed I did not say sheds. In sheds your grooving, practicing some rudiments and other aspect of drumming, and feeding off of other energy all while learning new chops, etc. In a solo our by yourself drawing from your own creativity where the drumset is the only instrument to draw from. I am not going to get into a definition of what a drum solo is. I will leave that to Sabe to give us an appropriate definition of a drum solo. When playing a drum solo you must as Sabe and others have mentioned, pull out the overtones and specifics of each cymbal, tom-tom, hi-hat, and other instruments of the set. Spanky has that ability. I believe the more we see Spanky play by himself and the more he sees other drummers solos he will definitely develop the art of playing a solo. I believe and know what others pointed out about Spanky's playing is not a knock of him as a artist, but a opinion of what he needs to work on to develop a solo. There will be a time as Spanky develops his solo where he is just going to amaze everyone as I am sure everyone know on LGM. Spanky is a beast, period. We must remember as some of us pointed out that he is developing and still learning about drum solos. I can see what Jfunky and Sabe was talking about. Spanky is creative on the set playing for artists. As and when he focuses those talents on just drum solos and contniues to learn and grow he is going to be rediculous on drum solos too. I believe it is fun watching him develop from a gospel drumer to a solo drummer. We need to start a thread on drum solos. What do yall think, Stay Blessed, Nate J.
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not tryin to start any other commotions,but what do u think what god thinkin about right now? :-\
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not tryin to start any other commotions,but what do u think what god thinkin about right now? :-\
...I'm sure he has better things to think about. ;)
...I'm definetly going to stay out of the Spanky Threads. Boy, I'll tell ya.... :-X :-X :-X
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not tryin to start any other commotions,but what do u think what god thinkin about right now? :-\
What are you thinkin' about ?/? I don't get it. People don't see things the same way all the time, and nor should we. There is too much co-signing going on around here nowadays. I have my good days and my bad days when I'm playing with my band. And 99% of the time , I'm the only one who can tell and I will be humble enough to admitt where I'm lackin' and try to do better next time. When my mentor is around, he never tell me that your were slammin' the whole set lil bro, he will tear me apart only to build me back up again. He'll call back the next day and say I got a $400 gig for you ,I need you to fill in for me. That's because he believes in me, even if I may have sucked for a slight minute on a 1 or 2 hour set... I believe that Spanky is on his way and will continue to grow and get better. This clip was IMHO weak. I've seen him do so much better. For instance the Nisan Clinic clip. He was in rare form in that clinic. He showed up for sure... God is chillin' and thinking of things we can't even comprehend. He's not worried about a Spanky clip. He already predistandant Spanky's path a knows he will become a Great percussionist....
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I really dont think its as serious as everyone is making it out to be. Just ease up. Everyone's opinions is well taken and respected (at least by me). That doesnt mean its what I have to abide by. That's life. The only way we could be all on one accord is if we were all on that same level. Well, we're not. Chill out, enjoy the vid for what it's worth to YOU.
We do realize that no one actually was "dissing" Spanky's playing, right????
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I really dont think its as serious as everyone is making it out to be. Just ease up. Everyone's opinions is well taken and respected (at least by me). That doesnt mean its what I have to abide by. That's life. The only way we could be all on one accord is if we were all on that same level. Well, we're not. Chill out, enjoy the vid for what it's worth to YOU.
We do realize that no one actually was "dissing" Spanky's playing, right????
Agreed...
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What do you guys think of Tama? Any of yall rate tama as a drum company?
the next time i get a kit (which is about 2-3 years from now) I wanna get a professional kit.
DW is too expensive (tama is expensive too) but I like the way Tama's stuff is made.....
Yamaha makes great professional kits too and they are cheaper......
what do yall think?
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;D imagine being at the clinic in cali 5 feet away from him seeing that madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whoa imm a blessed man!! then 2 feet away from mike bereal lol i needa get the WHOLE clip up hahaha but yeah i see what you guys are saying about him but MY opinion is ive heard the best and i know his style i know what you guys are saying but i respect the clip for what it was...spanky murkin the set as usual
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What do you guys think of Tama? Any of yall rate tama as a drum company?
the next time i get a kit (which is about 2-3 years from now) I wanna get a professional kit.
DW is too expensive (tama is expensive too) but I like the way Tama's stuff is made.....
Yamaha makes great professional kits too and they are cheaper......
what do yall think?
Tama is not my favorite by far but if they fix the errors with last years and this years bass drum tom mount they are a decent purchase in the StarClassic line. I love the Birch when headed/tuned properly and the Bubinga is money in the bank. Tama has a weird little twang after-sound (taste) to them. Anyone else notice that (BBD, Beatboxerz,Soulnomad, anyone , everyone...? They definitley have there own sound.
Yamaha and Pearl both off better features in my opinion. When you look at what most Backline companies use Tama is not in the running.
Careful... Yamaha's aren't cheap-er but have a better price tag, :) ;). ...(slight bias there as well as don't want anyone's lawyers to get antsy).
In two years when you get your kit the game will have changed again. I mean GMS is dropping and Ash kit right now and Ddrum a Walnut kit and a Bubinga kit. NAMM 2007 is just around the corner and Pearl is over due for a bomb. DW will be releasing their Peter Erskine kit. Odery (out of Brazil) will probably have secured U.S. distribution. Covenant Drum Company will have a full blown manufacturing facility popping out kits for chuuch folk and all will be gravy.
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you right.....thanks for that reply...
ddrum is coming out wit a bubinga and a walnut kit?? are they up there wit yamaha and pearl?
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Tama is not my favorite by far but if they fix the errors with last years and this years bass drum tom mount they are a decent purchase in the StarClassic line. I love the Birch when headed/tuned properly and the Bubinga is money in the bank. Tama has a weird little twang after-sound (taste) to them. Anyone else notice that (BBD, Beatboxerz,Soulnomad, anyone , everyone...? They definitley have there own sound.
Yamaha and Pearl both off better features in my opinion. When you look at what most Backline companies use Tama is not in the running.
Careful... Yamaha's aren't cheap-er but have a better price tag, :) ;). ...(slight bias there as well as don't want anyone's lawyers to get antsy).
In two years when you get your kit the game will have changed again. I mean GMS is dropping and Ash kit right now and Ddrum a Walnut kit and a Bubinga kit. NAMM 2007 is just around the corner and Pearl is over due for a bomb. DW will be releasing their Peter Erskine kit. Odery (out of Brazil) will probably have secured U.S. distribution. Covenant Drum Company will have a full blown manufacturing facility popping out kits for chuuch folk and all will be gravy.
Yep, they have a strange tone to them. My first kit was a 1986 Swingstar The Stewart Copland model, when they were made out of mohogony. I out grew Tama years ago. I still have my Tama, my son has it.
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you right.....thanks for that reply...
ddrum is coming out wit a bubinga and a walnut kit?? are they up there wit yamaha and pearl?
Yep... They just showed them at Summer NAMM. They will sell for around $2,000. Which is $500-900 cheaper thn the Tama Bubinga.
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After watching this clip, I come to the conclusion that I always do about him...
The dude does have a gift, but at age 24/25 ... I'm not sure as to how serious he is in developing technique, and become theoretically sound. That may sound like a ridiculous statement .... but, I know quite a few musicians are who theoretically & technically sound, and they're in their teens.
Spanky is not a MAJOR drummer right now. Perhaps in the gospel industry ... but, frankly, how many well-known gospel musicians you know are qualified to sit down and demonstrate technique on the level of say ..... Dave Weckl? The only person that really comes to mind is Chris Coleman.
You can't forsake the ARDUOUS process of learning theory and proper technique, and expect to not have a very limited vocabulary.
Having a gift is only the beginning.
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After watching this clip, I come to the conclusion that I always do about him...
The dude does have a gift, but at age 24/25 ... I'm not sure as to how serious he is in developing technique, and become theoretically sound. That may sound like a ridiculous statement .... but, I know quite a few musicians are who theoretically & technically sound, and they're in their teens.
Spanky is not a MAJOR drummer right now. Perhaps in the gospel industry ... but, frankly, how many well-known gospel musicians you know are qualified to sit down and demonstrate technique on the level of say ..... Dave Weckl? The only person that really comes to mind is Chris Coleman.
You can't forsake the ARDUOUS process of learning theory and proper technique, and expect to not have a very limited vocabulary.
Having a gift is only the beginning.
A. B. I. Alert deadlier than A.I.D.S. …
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honestly, i am not impressed with most gospel drummers i see. i beleive that they focus more on chops and sheds and crap like that. when was the last time you having a bunch of chops would get you the gig? and then, because they are fcused so much on the chops aspect, they sacrifice taste and technique. i have never been impressed by the chops slinger. guys like steve gadd and steve jordan are both monster drummers that have 20 plus years of experience each, but are masters of groove. i just think we put tooooooooo much thought into mindless things like how fast you are or what new lick you have. what good are grooves if there is no space to put it in? for example, i have heard many clips of spanky and if i was his boss, i would fire him quick. he constantly overplays almost to the point of just flat out doing a solo. why are we impressed by chops instead of guys like bernard purdie, al jackson jr., abe laboriel jr., curt bisquera, omar hakim, josh freese, steve jordan, derico watson, steve gadd, greg bisonette, shawn pelton, herman matthews, teddy campbell, max weinberg...... all these guys are monsters, yet play for the groove. how many of yall say that it is all about the groove, yet try to go out and learn all these licks or try to fit the most 32nd notes into a simple groove to make it sound more "church" or hip hip.
instead, our minds are foolishly focusing on drummers like aaron spears, lil john, "daddy" dave, nisan stewart, geral heyward. i really do think that hip-hop drumming is a joke. even though these guys all can play with clicks and stuff, we all really know why they are where they are. it is because somebody saw them and liked their chops.... and we all are so excited to see what new chops are gonna be done on any dvd we get. never once have i hear someone say,"hey go buy this because his groove was solid". it is always,"hey go buy this dvd, he was throwing out these crazy chops."
i think we all need to do some soul searching in whether we are really trying to better ourselves as musicians or as soloists.....
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Dude is nice(Coming from the Keyboard point of view). You guys are worst than Simon on American Idol...but I love it lol. Is technique really that big of a thing? Just asking...Once again I am not a drummer
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for a true musician, not just a drummer, technique is everything. that is a big falacy about drummers, that we dont care oabout technique. on the contrary, all drummers that are wanting to constantly better themselves are always looking for flaws in their playing styles...
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for a true musician, not just a drummer, technique is everything. that is a big falacy about drummers, that we dont care oabout technique. on the contrary, all drummers that are wanting to constantly better themselves are always looking for flaws in their playing styles...
Cool... I asked cause I mean to the naked eye he is tight with no flaws. Here is my next question.... What is he doing wrong and how can it be corrected?
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I respect him as a player but really it just goes to show that you dont have to be the best to make it you just have to be in Gods will for your life!
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honestyl, i am not onpressed with most gospel drummers i see. i beleive that they focus more on chops and sheds and crap like that. when was the last time you having a bunch of chops would get you the gig? and then, because they are fcused so much on the chops aspect, they sacrifice taste and technique. i have never been impressed by the chops slinger. guys like steve gadd and steve jordan are both monster drummers that have 20 plus years of experience each, but are masters of groove. i just think we put tooooooooo much thought into mindless things like how fast you are or what new lick you have. what good are grooves if there is no space to put it in? for example, i have heard many clips of spanky and if i was his boss, i would fire him quick. he constantyl overplays almost to the point of just flat out doing a solo. why are we impressed by chops instead of guys like bernard purdie, al jackson jr., abe laboriel jr., curt bisquera, omar hakim, josh freese, steve jordan, derico watson, steve gadd, greg bisonette, shawn pelton, herman matthews, teddy campbell, max weinberg...... all these guys are monsters, yet play for the groove. how many of yall say that it is all about the groove, yet try to go out and learn all these licks or try to fit the most 32nd notes into a simple groove to make it sound more "church" or hip hip.
instead, our minds are foolishly focusing on drummers like aaron spears, lil john, "daddy" dave, nisan stewart, geral heyward. i really do think that hip-hop drumming is a joke. even though these guys all can play with clicks and stuff, we all really know why they are where they are. it is because somebody saw them and liked their chops.... and we all are so excited to see what new chops are gonna be done on any dvd we get. never once have i hear someone say,"hey go buy this because his groove was solid". it is always,"hey go buy this dvd, he was throwing out these crazy chops."
i think we all need to do some soul searching in whether we are really trying to better ourselves as musicians or as soloists.....
You know, I hate to single out other drummers ... but, I don't think you can put Chris Dave, and Lil' John in that category. Chris Dave has recorded with many different type's of artist's. He is also very knowledgeable, and very technically sound. Chris Dave does play hip hop, but he'll tell you he doesn't want to be pigeon-holed, which is why he learns, and has learned, many different styles. He's played with Kenny Garrett, Billy Preston, Dolly Parton(I pointed that out to show how diverse his resume is), Meshell Ndegeocello, Kim Burrell, Jon Secada, and the list goes on. He's studied with Jeff 'Tain' Watts, and Dennis Chambers has given him his props.
Not a Chris Dave groupie, but you can't put him in the same category with a lot of the guys you've mentioned.
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http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=994036315
I don't think you can seriously consider these joke musiciains. Chris Dave is on drums.
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I respect him as a player but really it just goes to show that you dont have to be the best to make it you just have to be in Gods will for your life!
Agreed Doc!!! My thing is if you are going to be an instructer then all that stuff you guys speak about is important to have, but an artist is just looking for someone with a tight pocket that can hold them down. Be blessed
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Agreed Doc!!! My thing is if you are going to be an instructer then all that stuff you guys speak about is important to have, but an artist is just looking for someone with a tight pocket that can hold them down. Be blessed
Wow.
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Wow.
Divine thats just my point of view(I play keys). When I watch I think it sounds good, I dont notice that he hit the wrong cymbal or his chops are the same as every other drummer.
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I played on one of DDrum top of the range Drums at drummer live 2006
and i must i Was Seriously IMPRESSED .
The warmth amd the depth of the toms was just awesome Mos def.. I
will look at DDrums when upgrading in a year or two. They might not be a big name at the moment
but i see great things for this company.
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instead, our minds are foolishly focusing on drummers like aaron spears, lil john, "daddy" dave, nisan stewart, geral heyward. i really do think that hip-hop drumming is a joke. even though these guys all can play with clicks and stuff, we all really know why they are where they are. it is because somebody saw them and liked their chops.... and we all are so excited to see what new chops are gonna be done on any dvd we get. never once have i hear someone say,"hey go buy this because his groove was solid". it is always,"hey go buy this dvd, he was throwing out these crazy chops."
i think we all need to do some soul searching in whether we are really trying to better ourselves as musicians or as soloists.....
Hey man, I understand what you're saying but honestly nobody is gonna get excited over someone just playing pocket the whole time. We as drummers, musicians or whatever need flavor and creativity in our system from time to time. That's what distinguishes one drummer from the next you know. And plus it's just fun to chop and watch other people chop, I think the majority of drummers already know how to play solid pocket and groove, that's the foundation (and notice I said the majority and not all). Just a thought..... ;D
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honestyl, i am not onpressed with most gospel drummers i see. i beleive that they focus more on chops and sheds and crap like that. when was the last time you having a bunch of chops would get you the gig? and then, because they are fcused so much on the chops aspect, they sacrifice taste and technique. i have never been impressed by the chops slinger. guys like steve gadd and steve jordan are both monster drummers that have 20 plus years of experience each, but are masters of groove. i just think we put tooooooooo much thought into mindless things like how fast you are or what new lick you have. what good are grooves if there is no space to put it in? for example, i have heard many clips of spanky and if i was his boss, i would fire him quick. he constantyl overplays almost to the point of just flat out doing a solo. why are we impressed by chops instead of guys like bernard purdie, al jackson jr., abe laboriel jr., curt bisquera, omar hakim, josh freese, steve jordan, derico watson, steve gadd, greg bisonette, shawn pelton, herman matthews, teddy campbell, max weinberg...... all these guys are monsters, yet play for the groove. how many of yall say that it is all about the groove, yet try to go out and learn all these licks or try to fit the most 32nd notes into a simple groove to make it sound more "church" or hip hip.
instead, our minds are foolishly focusing on drummers like aaron spears, lil john, "daddy" dave, nisan stewart, geral heyward. i really do think that hip-hop drumming is a joke. even though these guys all can play with clicks and stuff, we all really know why they are where they are. it is because somebody saw them and liked their chops.... and we all are so excited to see what new chops are gonna be done on any dvd we get. never once have i hear someone say,"hey go buy this because his groove was solid". it is always,"hey go buy this dvd, he was throwing out these crazy chops."
i think we all need to do some soul searching in whether we are really trying to better ourselves as musicians or as soloists.....
*poof, member of the Grammar League enters*
Aww forget it, dont have that much time........
*poof, member or the Grammar League exits*
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Hey man, I understand what you're saying but honestly nobody is gonna get excited over someone just playing pocket the whole time. We as drummers, musicians or whatever need flavor and creativity in our system from time to time. That's what distinguishes one drummer from the next you know. And plus it's just fun to chop and watch other people chop, I think the majority of drummers already know how to play solid pocket and groove, that's the foundation (and notice I said the majority and not all). Just a thought..... ;D
Truth be told, I would've said the same thing six years ago. Now, I find playing like that boring. I want something I can feel. Watching guys empty out their bag of tricks, to me, has no musical value. Sure, from time to time, it's nice to hear someone pull off something nice .... and I also find it funny that you call 'pocket playing' boring. Yes, you do have boring drummers. Frankly, I don't care much for Terry Baker. I know the guy is probably a first-call musician ... but, his playing does nothing for me. That's not to say that I can't learn anything from him, tho'.
I like music with interesting grooves, point blank. Frankly, I feel that people who have to rely on excessive display's of virtuosity, do so, 'cause they lack soul. Gotta do something to compensate for the lack of it, I suppose.
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Man, you chop dislikers are taking this hate for musicians who have chops to a whole new plateau. I rather have the chops and use them when it's necessary than not have them at all.True, chops will not get you a professional gig, but, if you have pocket and chops plus discipline,then you are way ahead of the curve. Dude, Aaron Spears is a Great percussionist, he has pocket and chops. Stop lying on that man. Now if someone is just choppin' all over the place with no sense of feel or timing or lock than BOO!!! But If he or she has the whole package than HOORAY!!! Most of the drummers who have a strong dislike for percussionist who have chops are the ones who don't have the chops to pull it off. If you read my posting on this kid Spanky, I said I was NOT IMPRESSED, he has potential... As percussionist, our way of being creative comes in the form of being able to groove and having the chops to do a solo when called upon. If any of you ever marched in a corp style band and played in a jazz big band, combo etc. have a distinct advantage in musicial delvolopment.
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....Cake with Frosting people.
The Cake = The Foundation. [Grooving and locking in with the bass/guitar and band. Having a good pocket and having people feel where you're coming from or where you are going in a given musical piece.]
The Frosting/Icing = Chops, licks, tricks. [Being able to bring in different voices of the kit and display technical proficiency and vocabulary to add to the music piece and not take away from it. Also included is showmanship. *Having this will NOT get you a gig but can help you get it IF you have the "Foundation."*
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Agreed Doc!!! My thing is if you are going to be an instructer then all that stuff you guys speak about is important to have, but an artist is just looking for someone with a tight pocket that can hold them down. Be blessed
That is not true for every artist. In fact that is a slap in the face for some artists. In fact the serious artist only use serious musicians. Why because a person is known/judged/grows by the company they keep. We really need to question why we are doing this if we are going to be satisfied with all aspects being equal. Seems like society is a bit too anxious for things to be seen and allow for order to be thrown to the side.
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honestyl, i am not onpressed with most gospel drummers i see. i beleive that they focus more on chops and sheds and crap like that. when was the last time you having a bunch of chops would get you the gig? and then, because they are fcused so much on the chops aspect, they sacrifice taste and technique. i have never been impressed by the chops slinger. guys like steve gadd and steve jordan are both monster drummers that have 20 plus years of experience each, but are masters of groove. i just think we put tooooooooo much thought into mindless things like how fast you are or what new lick you have. what good are grooves if there is no space to put it in? for example, i have heard many clips of spanky and if i was his boss, i would fire him quick. he constantyl overplays almost to the point of just flat out doing a solo. why are we impressed by chops instead of guys like bernard purdie, al jackson jr., abe laboriel jr., curt bisquera, omar hakim, josh freese, steve jordan, derico watson, steve gadd, greg bisonette, shawn pelton, herman matthews, teddy campbell, max weinberg...... all these guys are monsters, yet play for the groove. how many of yall say that it is all about the groove, yet try to go out and learn all these licks or try to fit the most 32nd notes into a simple groove to make it sound more "church" or hip hip.
instead, our minds are foolishly focusing on drummers like aaron spears, lil john, "daddy" dave, nisan stewart, geral heyward. i really do think that hip-hop drumming is a joke. even though these guys all can play with clicks and stuff, we all really know why they are where they are. it is because somebody saw them and liked their chops.... and we all are so excited to see what new chops are gonna be done on any dvd we get. never once have i hear someone say,"hey go buy this because his groove was solid". it is always,"hey go buy this dvd, he was throwing out these crazy chops."
i think we all need to do some soul searching in whether we are really trying to better ourselves as musicians or as soloists.....
There are two extremes when it comes to this subject. You have someone who's all chops and then you have someone who can only play pocket and can't get into bringing their character forth on the set. Frankly, versatility is paramount. You must be able to do both at a proficient level. Honestly, if pocket is the only thing a drummer needs, then who needs a drummer? Just go ahead and get a drum machine or sequencer to do every show from here on out. The sign of a good drumset musician is not what you can do, but your thought process while doing them, i.e. placement, dynamics, technique, musicality. To even put Lil' John in this category is perposterous to me. He's a drummer that has both and practices extreme discipline in displaying both.
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There are two extremes when it comes to this subject. You have someone who's all chops and then you have someone who can only play pocket and can't get into bringing their character forth on the set. Frankly, versatility is paramount. You must be able to do both at a proficient level. Honestly, if pocket is the only thing a drummer needs, then who needs a drummer? Just go ahead and get a drum machine or sequencer to do every show from here on out. The sign of a good drumset musician is not what you can do, but your thought process while doing them, i.e. placement, dynamics, technique, musicality. To even put Lil' John in this category is perposterous to me. He's a drummer that has both and practices extreme discipline in displaying both.
Well put Sugabear!
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honestly, i am not impressed with most gospel drummers i see. i beleive that they focus more on chops and sheds and crap like that. when was the last time you having a bunch of chops would get you the gig? and then, because they are fcused so much on the chops aspect, they sacrifice taste and technique. i have never been impressed by the chops slinger. guys like steve gadd and steve jordan are both monster drummers that have 20 plus years of experience each, but are masters of groove. i just think we put tooooooooo much thought into mindless things like how fast you are or what new lick you have. what good are grooves if there is no space to put it in? for example, i have heard many clips of spanky and if i was his boss, i would fire him quick. he constantly overplays almost to the point of just flat out doing a solo. why are we impressed by chops instead of guys like bernard purdie, al jackson jr., abe laboriel jr., curt bisquera, omar hakim, josh freese, steve jordan, derico watson, steve gadd, greg bisonette, shawn pelton, herman matthews, teddy campbell, max weinberg...... all these guys are monsters, yet play for the groove. how many of yall say that it is all about the groove, yet try to go out and learn all these licks or try to fit the most 32nd notes into a simple groove to make it sound more "church" or hip hip.
instead, our minds are foolishly focusing on drummers like aaron spears, lil john, "daddy" dave, nisan stewart, geral heyward. i really do think that hip-hop drumming is a joke. even though these guys all can play with clicks and stuff, we all really know why they are where they are. it is because somebody saw them and liked their chops.... and we all are so excited to see what new chops are gonna be done on any dvd we get. never once have i hear someone say,"hey go buy this because his groove was solid". it is always,"hey go buy this dvd, he was throwing out these crazy chops."
i think we all need to do some soul searching in whether we are really trying to better ourselves as musicians or as soloists.....
I get what you are saying and agree with most of your comments.
However Chris "Daddy" Dave is not about chops as referred to by most gospel/urban drummers. Chris is a musician first an second has a vast rhythmic vocabulary based on jazz independence and African polyrhythms. The copycats are not where he is and just mess up they style that he is being created with today trying to do the "licks" without the independence, coordination nor knowledge of time and notation. Chris' playing lines up and doesn't disturb the groove but firmly establishes it then enhances and expounds on it.
What we urban/church learned guys have to UNDERSTAND is that the true definition of chops is mastery of the fundamentals which in 32nd and 64th notes, and the rudimental rhythmic vocabulary that is the A,B,Cs of everything else we try to do. Without being abould to play the 16 - 64th notes that are the subdivision of one quarter note we always stand the chance of wrecking the "groove". We need to hav eth e full understand of the qurter beat and pulse itself in order to show it full respect. Purdie, Gadd, The late-great Jeff Porcaro, John "JR" Robinson, Dave Garibaldi, Rick Latham as well as others previously mentioned all know the subdivision of the quarter intimatley... they all know notation. We need to know the same intimacy. All these guys have chops, groove, solo vocabulary and respect for the music.
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Spanky for Governor
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so how about them lakers???..
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so how about them lakers???..
Fa real dog!! Them Chicago Bears look like they might be serious! That defense is BANANAS! And Grossman might be the answer to their QB problems!
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who's spanky?