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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: Lisaloo on January 31, 2007, 03:50:45 PM
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Most of them that I've met have "Take over spirits". Most of them that I've met are hard headed and disrespctful to leadership! They think the church can't do nothing unless they're there, they try to make the choir their own personal singing group, and they want a huge paycheck for playing the organ once a week! I'm talking up to $300 or more a week for playing on a Sunday morning, thats crazy to me! If I had that gift I'd play for free!
I not saying that all musicians are that way, I'm speaking from my experiences and what I heard from others!
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I not saying that all musicians are that way, I'm speaking from my experiences and what I heard from others!
If you were one of those musicians, you probably wouldn't be on this site. :)
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Lisaloo - Welcome to LGM
as with anything you have some good and some bad. Pray that God would work on them and with you. Matt 18:15-20 & I Peter 2: around the 10th v or so are some good places to help you know how to help them since it seems like you are irritated and offended by what you see from the musicians you have experienced.
Again welcome and blessings!! ;) :) :)
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Thanks iamworship!
I not angry at them, I recognize that spirit and wonder why they allow it to drive them to such behavior. Where's the reverence and respect for those in authority?
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Lisaloo - Welcome to LGM
as with anything you have some good and some bad. Pray that God would work on them and with you. Matt 18:15-20 & I Peter 2: around the 10th v or so are some good places to help you know how to help them since it seems like you are irritated and offended by what you see from the musicians you have experienced.
Again welcome and blessings!! ;) :) :)
Lisaloo- Welcome to LGM
I agree with iamworship2006 totally. I think you have met some of the bad apples in the bunch. Not all musicians are like that. Those scriptures that he gave you were are on point. I'm sorry you had to meet the bad ones first. Some musicians playing is all they do it's there source of income. Also just want to let you know there's always three sides to every story.
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....They do what their Pastor allows!...........the good and the bad!......
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whatever the story, there's no excuse for being disrespectful to your pastor and to your church whom you say you love!
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whatever the story, there's no excuse for being disrespectful to your pastor and to your church whom you say you love!
And....I mean this in love. The battle is not yours...It's the Lord's. All you can do is love them and pray for them. Honestly, WE can not even help you and your church with this issue except to pray. You are not alon so their are people praying just like you in your own church. God will turn it around when He gets good and ready. I've seen him do it!!
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....They do what their Pastor allows!...........the good and the bad!......
Pastor's are not suppose to make people do anything, It's up to the people to trust that their god sent leader knows whats best for them. It's up to them to follow!
I know iamworship, I've witnessed god turn situations like this around before too!
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I can't see any church musician making that kind of money. If that's their job as a worship leader/musician,that's ok. But as a musician,that's just wrong to demand money. None of us are paid and only one has a title,the church pianist,that's her title. The rest of us are there to worship and play for God.
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Pastor's are not suppose to make people do anything, It's up to the people to trust that their god sent leader knows whats best for them. It's up to them to follow!
I know iamworship, I've witnessed god turn situations like this around before too!
...why do you think this?....the Pastor is the person in charge....the Pastor make folks do stuff all the time!....the pastor pays the musician and directs the people in positions how to conduct themselves....Pastors let musicians get away with stuff because they think they need them...need to fix that notion because in many churches the musicians arent even of the same faith!....some are of no faith at all...and dont want to be.....
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the pastor is a spiritual leader but he and or she is still a human being. They don't have super hero powers to make people do anything. Where in the bible does it state that leaders are suppose to make people obey them? The people have to be submissive to their leaders!
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<<<<<<<<<<<<<walks out of thread, because I like getting paid
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lol!
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If I had that gift I'd play for free!
So would I.
Come to think of it, I do!
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I don't mind if some musicians get paid for their services. Musicians have an added skill that many in most church music departments don't have. Now when they get a big head about it and act like Latrell Sprewell about it, I have a problem with it (I'll explain later). But $300 a week? Sole source of income? Maybe if there's a high workload to justify it. Like maybe you play for like all seven choirs at that church, write some of their songs, and spend four or five evenings a week at rehearsals. Other than that, here's a concept...GET A REAL JOB.
...just like that soprano in the second row that sings in three of the seven choirs, goes to rehearsal twice a week, and doesn't get paid for her vocal services.
...(in some cases) just like that pastor of a church so small that he can't live on that income alone either
"I don't like the salary cap. We need to make more money. I mean, I got kids to feed."
-Latrell Sprewell: NBA Basketball Player
(Dawg, you already make $15 million a year. What are YOUR kids eating? You shop at the same grocery store as the people making $30,000 a year.)
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well isnt Spre the one getting sued from his exgirl from another state. I think the girl is suing for a huge sum because she said there was rarely a month were the account had less than 100k in it. I think she's asking for 50mil or so. So really, he did have kids to feed.
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Well, according to the news report she wasn't just some girl. She was his common law wife.
She had 4 kids by him, and was the legal guardian of a 5th child who he had by somebody else.
She is suing him for 200million, and she will probably get most of it unless they settle out of court.
Now some of the comments she made leads you to believe she was focused on the money, but if she was taking of the household, the courts will consider that a job and pay her accordingly.
also, Spree was the one who left and moved to another state (according to the report). So basically he need to jump on the next 15 day contract that becomes available in the NBA, cuz the bruh is gonna have to pay....
jlewis
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Be that as it may with Spree and his wife/children...he screwed up in that regard and he has to handle his responsibility. However, that doesn't change the fact that a box of Kellogg's Froot Loops costs $2.15 whether you make $30K a year or $15M a year. I bet that even when, or if he pays up to the wife, he'll have plenty to live on. He won't be living like a $15M per year guy but he'll have enough to live on.
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the pastor is a spiritual leader but he and or she is still a human being. They don't have super hero powers to make people do anything. Where in the bible does it state that leaders are suppose to make people obey them? The people have to be submissive to their leaders!
...We must go to different types of churches...I go to what they mostly call holiness type churches...and most recently a cogic church....In these churches there is the pastor ...his wife...maybe some deacons and misionaries....musicians...the congregation...and a janitor!...(and the janitor could be any of the previously mentioned)....THE PASTOR IS THE BOSS!...HE CAN AND DOES RULE AND WILL THROW YOU OUT WITH A SWIFTNESS NOT SEEN BEFORE!......No Super Hero Powers Required!....No board of directors to argue with.....Get it right...or go home!....we call it LEADERSHIP!.....
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I am a church musician and I get paid. I play for my church on Saturday and for another on Sunday.
I think that it is wrong to ask or demand money from the church that you are a member or act like a member of. In the other cases, churches shold pay their musicians what ever the church see fit, not what the pastor sees fit. The musician is for the church and performs that service for everyone not just the pastor even though he is the spiritual leader, the church pays him what they see fit also.
In every case those who are up leading out in the chruch in what ever capasity shoud be shown appreciation by the church. Not just once a year but often. Just so happens that in this world, money is that universal thing when it comes to musicians.
If a musician demands a certian amount - don't hire. If a musician won't play without a check - don't hire.
On a side note, I have never asked a church for money and have always been given what I asked God for.
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At my church we get paid every week.We have 5 choir and a praise team.You will make 300-350 a week playing 4 my church.Disrespecting your leaders in the church is something that u shouldn't do.
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Welcome to LGM Lisaloo.
I can truly say that I have yet to meet a musician that has an attitude like that and has stayed on the payroll. I am quite sure there are musicians that exist that have a bad attitude and with a mean streak and are continuing to play at the same church for some time ( months or maybe even years); I just don't know of any musicians that last long with bad attitudes and no regard nor respect for authority (Pastor, Deacons, Elders, etc.).
If you find yourself having to deal with a musician with a disposition or spirit that you describe in your post, remember "prayer can change things" and "prayer can move people in many ways including "outta yo way!"
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church musicians are a trip im glad im a christian musician and yes i still get paid
those who complain about musicians getting paid arent doing something right
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Most of them that I've met have "Take over spirits". Most of them that I've met are hard headed and disrespctful to leadership! They think the church can't do nothing unless they're there, they try to make the choir their own personal singing group, and they want a huge paycheck for playing the organ once a week! I'm talking up to $300 or more a week for playing on a Sunday morning, thats crazy to me! If I had that gift I'd play for free!
I not saying that all musicians are that way, I'm speaking from my experiences and what I heard from others!
Welcome to LGM...
This is true in a lot of cases. I KNOW I am about to ruffle feathers, and I dont care either... BUt this is something that I have seen here on LGM, from drummers, and the pianists/organists.
CHURCH WILL STILL HAPPEN IF YOU AINT THERE! And on top of that, the pay thing has gotten out of hand, in my opinion. A friend of mine... on LGM mind you... (Im not into blasting folks...::) ) had nerve to laugh at me because my church wasnt paying me. He felt that I should leave my church. Thats not the answer. I am gonna stick with them until God says so. Besides, I have a job....
Now in more recent months, I am getting paid, not $300 a Sunday, and truth be told I declined acceptance of the initial check from my church. The church is full of spiritual gifts. My gift of a musician is God given, and so is my gift of intecessor, trustee, and whatever else God has for ME. But I dont expect to get paid from it.
When you start letting the money affect whether you can serve God through the girft that he has entrusted to you, then there is a problem. This friend of mine has been fom pillar to post, church to church probably because of his poor outlook.
I often wonder, if another church was offering more money, would you leave where you are to get the higher $$$??? Would that make you a servant to $ or to the craft of musicianship ?/?
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Be that as it may with Spree and his wife/children...he screwed up in that regard and he has to handle his responsibility. However, that doesn't change the fact that a box of Kellogg's Froot Loops costs $2.15 whether you make $30K a year or $15M a year. I bet that even when, or if he pays up to the wife, he'll have plenty to live on. He won't be living like a $15M per year guy but he'll have enough to live on.
Dubb Deuce Deuce,
I agree that he should still have plenty to live on..... if his mentality is not to showcase what he got. Unfortunately that probably ain't the case ( but I don't know spree so I can't say for sure).
But you have look at it like this, people usually live their lifestyle based on what they make. If you cut what you make by 50% ( regardless of how much you make) then you gonna have to make a drastic change in living habits.
Basically, Spree gonna be living like the rest of us regular folks ( which will be a change for him).
Jlewis
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Can anyone tell me if the churches or synagogues in the Bible have staffs on payroll? ?/? ?/?
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levites were paid with tithes
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levites were paid with tithes
Is there any reference in the Bible to musicians being paid?
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http://www.worshipandchurchmusic.com/payleaders.html (http://www.worshipandchurchmusic.com/payleaders.html)
Check out this article about this topic.
So far musicians being paid. I said it before. I think it depends on some different factors. Did the church offer to pay? Are you a member of the church? Is this the only thing you do?
I ask because yes I believe that musicians chould be paid. I'm not saying that you demand payment. There's plenty of times where I didn't recieve anything nor did I take. If the church offers then fine.(A pastor told me a long time when someone is trying to give you something wether it be money or anything, don't say no because God might have told them to bless you and your holding there blessing up.) You have look at it from a biblical stand point look at Numbers 18:21-30, Nehemiah 12:44-47. It basically says that the Levites who where the Musicians AND SINGERS(Yes Singers) were paid. So yes Singers as well as Musicians should be paid. In some Catholic and Presbyterian churches the some of the choir members are paid. But like I said earlier if the church can't afford it or you don't feel right taken it then don't.
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I think the reverence is in book of Numbers
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There's nothing wrong with getting paid, but whats wrong with using your GOD GIVEN GIFT for the edification of the church whether money is involved or not?. You should be happy to use what god has given you to his glory. When it becomes all about the money, some lose focus of the heavenly rewards that come with serving the lord with their gifts!
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Is there any reference in the Bible to musicians being paid?
Its all through numbers, and c1,2 chronicles. Anywhere were Levites are mentioned, but more specifically: Read 2Chron 34. Musicians/Levites were paid.
and
without me having to give all the background on everything, this seems to be a pretty good resource talking about Asaph a Levite musician who wrote several songs. He was a Professional musican, which means, He got paid.
http://www.asaphmusic.com/articles/song2.htm
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There's nothing wrong with getting paid, but whats wrong with using your GOD GIVEN GIFT for the edification of the church whether money is involved or not?. You should be happy to use what god has given you to his glory. When it becomes all about the money, some lose focus of the heavenly rewards that come with serving the lord with their gifts!
well I like to look at things from as many angles as possible. I can see your point where it shouldnt be all about the money. But lets propose a question/angle..........
What if the musician is just at that church to help and serve, but his home church is elsewhere? He didnt choose to belong to the church, but he chose to help them out. Should he receive something for his time since for whatever reason he would prefer to be elsewhere.
I sum up that MOST musicans dont want to play for more than one church, but prefer to be adequately paid while at their home church where they're being fed and shepherded. If home took care of your needs, who would really truly go out on a regular basis to offer services elsewhere unless there was some other type of benefit at the aux. churches?
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... Latrell Sprewell ...
Here's another coulda woulda shoulda but didn't.
Oops, sorry, wrong thread. ;D
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Lisa some musicians get paid for the aggrevation within the choirs, teaching and directing, thinking of the choir ( providing music, song sheets, expenses, etc. ) and of course credentials. most churches and choirs with brown people in them are a trip, and will kill you mentally + if a musician lets them. Sometimes depending on the denomination it's just you and God [ and that's aiight also ] when having to be prayed up for some devils in these estabolishments. A musician needs a staff sometimes depending on the church size to make it work, because one thing for sure; those the ARE paying are LOOKING to see what they're paying for. A musician better have something prepared together. See sometimes here in Detroit you have musicians playing in 3 keys making $800 a Sunday. you probably want to REALLY confront them huh ? break out the prayer oil ?
IN light of these few reflections, if I met a musician who wants to do all of this for free [ which is valuable time for the average person, whether it's the choir members who are prompt and dislike the late-comers, or the musician who DOESN'T waste singers' time ] then he/ she really has enough time or money to continue to play for their church and has WWWAAAYYYY MOOREE patience than most who are getting paid. It is a business as CHURCH is really, so some places run themselves like a full corporation, with business strategies on how to save their money; so the musician has one also at times on how to make their living so they can buy at least an ANGUS steak burger every now and then from Burger King, since $300 is too much :) .. and then also , we have not cuz we ask not, and ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock... awww yall don't hear me. See some musicians ask to be "taken care of " in a nice church while ministering their gifts for the Lord. Sometimes that is their offering back to Him who gave us our talent. The gift isn't BURIED Like the guy in Bible days who buried his ONE gift God gave. OOOHH I can't bury mine. that's another reason my CD is out now (organ), and that was made for sale, not for free you know ?
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Lisa some musicians get paid for the aggrevation within the choirs, teaching and directing, thinking of the choir ( providing music, song sheets, expenses, etc. ) and of course credentials. most churches and choirs with brown people in them are a trip, and will kill you mentally + if a musician lets them. Sometimes depending on the denomination it's just you and God [ and that's aiight also ] when having to be prayed up for some devils in these estabolishments. A musician needs a staff sometimes depending on the church size to make it work, because one thing for sure; those the ARE paying are LOOKING to see what they're paying for. A musician better have something prepared together. See sometimes here in Detroit you have musicians playing in 3 keys making $800 a Sunday. you probably want to REALLY confront them huh ? break out the prayer oil ?
IN light of these few reflections, if I met a musician who wants to do all of this for free [ which is valuable time for the average person, whether it's the choir members who are prompt and dislike the late-comers, or the musician who DOESN'T waste singers' time ] then he/ she really has enough time or money to continue to play for their church and has WWWAAAYYYY MOOREE patience than most who are getting paid. It is a business as CHURCH is really, so some places run themselves like a full corporation, with business strategies on how to save their money; so the musician has one also at times on how to make their living so they can buy at least an ANGUS steak burger every now and then from Burger King, since $300 is too much :) .. and then also , we have not cuz we ask not, and ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock... awww yall don't hear me. See some musicians ask to be "taken care of " in a nice church while ministering their gifts for the Lord. Sometimes that is their offering back to Him who gave us our talent. The gift isn't BURIED Like the guy in Bible days who buried his ONE gift God gave. OOOHH I can't bury mine. that's another reason my CD is out now (organ), and that was made for sale, not for free you know ?
AMEN!!!!!!
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And Amen again. Really right on
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Yeah I've seen them kinds of musicians before with those take over spirits and they got fussed out by choir members, Lord forgive em, LOL.
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There are so many variables to this pay thing that it will go on til Jesus comes.
Some preachers dont want to pay you and they will fuss if your not there.
Im not sure if I want to get paid at church or not anymore.
In reality though if it came down to taking care of my family. Thats what God gave me so I will use it.
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I am a church musician, and I am compensated nicely from my church. I travel 30 miles each way to the church, and sometimes only a few people are there, after I have prepared selelctions for the entire upcoming Sunday service! That drives me totally insane, because the members of the choir sometimes have a "well-i-ain't getting-paid- for- singing-in-the-choir" type attitude. I'll go if I feel like it, or I won't go if I don't feel like it!"
Some church musicians may be cocky and arrogant, but I'm not. I believe that most musicians are sincere in their service and ministry responsibilities to the Lord and to the church. I feel that the same way a teacher would come in and teach a class and get compensated, so shoud I, because I come prepared and ready to go -yes-even if there are only 2 people there- me and the Holy Spirit! (smile if you'd like) And then, those who are late to rehearsals want you to go back over what has already been rehearsed! Can you believe that? So yes, I feel church musicians should get compensated, because we have to prepare the music, listening to selections over and over to teach the correct parts, put up with collosal attitudes -people who want to tell you-"that ain't how the song goes! It's faster! It's slower!!