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Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 03:20:10 PM

Title: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 03:20:10 PM: Now I know that this is a very dumb question and if you want, feel free to criticize me if you want...I want someone to explain transposing to me...because on one hand you have (-1 thru -12) on the other side you have ( regular 1 thru 12)..If you play in the key of Eb and someone sings a song in F...lets just say its a man...how do you know whether to transpose to a negative or a positive key??I have searched this site as far as I could, I'm not a member yet...so someone please explain to me...what do I do?
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: 2tight on June 15, 2007, 03:41:15 PM: Quote from: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 03:20:10 PM
Now I know that this is a very dumb question and if you want, feel free to criticize me if you want...I want someone to explain transposing to me...because on one hand you have (-1 thru -12) on the other side you have ( regular 1 thru 12)..If you play in the key of Eb and someone sings a song in F...lets just say its a man...how do you know whether to transpose to a negative or a positive key??I have searched this site as far as I could, I'm not a member yet...so someone please explain to me...what do I do?

If u go into the negative that mean u r going down a half step.if u go into the positive u r going up a half step.For example if u r playing in the key of Eb and the person is singing in E u will transpose to positive 1.if u r playing in C# and the person is singing in C u will transpose to negative 1.I hope this help u.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 15, 2007, 03:55:39 PM: Forget about the transpose button altogether and learn to play in every key.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: ddw4e on June 15, 2007, 04:01:58 PM: Read T-Block's signature LOL

"Real musicians play in every key!!!" :D
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: 2tight on June 15, 2007, 04:09:21 PM: Quote from: T-Block on June 15, 2007, 03:55:39 PM
Forget about the transpose button altogether and learn to play in every key.

Im guilty to of transposing.Im trying to stop using it.I agree with u about not using the transpose button.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: yaboyisblessed on June 15, 2007, 04:46:58 PM: Transposing is a handycap.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 05:22:02 PM: Hey I told yall it was probably a dumb question...No offense to you guys but a baby doesn't come out of the womb walking...you have to crawl before you walk...I haven't been playing very long at all...that's why this website exists...LEARNGOSPELMUSIC....So yes, as I said I am learning how to play in every key but right now I have to do what I have to do because I play for a church now...
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 15, 2007, 07:00:37 PM: Quote from: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 05:22:02 PM
Hey I told yall it was probably a dumb question...No offense to you guys but a baby doesn't come out of the womb walking...you have to crawl before you walk...I haven't been playing very long at all...that's why this website exists...LEARNGOSPELMUSIC....So yes, as I said I am learning how to play in every key but right now I have to do what I have to do because I play for a church now...

That has nothing to do with transposing. Since a baby has to crawl before it walks, then u should start practicing in one key at a time. Then, once u can play in all keys, then try to play in a service.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: BroAllan on June 16, 2007, 03:49:26 AM: Quote from: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 05:22:02 PM
Hey I told yall it was probably a dumb question...No offense to you guys but a baby doesn't come out of the womb walking...you have to crawl before you walk...I haven't been playing very long at all...that's why this website exists...LEARNGOSPELMUSIC....So yes, as I said I am learning how to play in every key but right now I have to do what I have to do because I play for a church now...

Quote from: T-Block on June 15, 2007, 07:00:37 PM
That has nothing to do with transposing. Since a baby has to crawl before it walks, then u should start practicing in one key at a time. Then, once u can play in all keys, then try to play in a service.

Believe me T-Block, I am one who discourages transposing. However the reality is that most of us began playing with the praise and worship team without being properly equipped in music theory. In fact, a lot of musicians find themselves in a position where suddenly they have to learn more about music theory for one reason or another.

I learned that non-musicians really don't understand how much work and knowledge it takes to go through a praise and worship set. In their eyes, if you can play an instrument, then you should be able to play pretty much any song. They don't realize that for those of us who play the keyboard or piano, changing the key of the song might make all the difference as to whether or not we are able to play the song.

Therefore, each musician will respond to the responsibilities and the expectations that are placed upon him or her. I was expected to play each song in the key that we were singing it in, so if I didn't know that particular key, I used the dreaded transpose button, BUT, my attitude was that I was gonna practice the keys that I didn't know, until I grew confident in those keys.

I said all that to say this, "I believe that it's the attitude of the musician concerning using the transpose button that really matters ..." Transposing for convenience or out of necessity, that's really the question ...
God bless ... BroAllan ;)
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 16, 2007, 07:50:41 AM: I understand completely where yall are coming from. I just can't give my stamp of approval on using the transposing button because I feel it's wrong. You can disagree with me, but that's where I stand.

Like I said in an ealier thread, the keyboard is the only instrument with transpose. Every other instrument player in the world has no choice but to play in every key, so why should keyboardists be any different?
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: ministerofworship on June 16, 2007, 05:02:47 PM: The transpose button can be used in emergency situations. I understand T-Block's point. You should learn to play in all keys, but sometimes you get stuff in different situation and not know the theory or have the skill to play in different keys. To help the babe: to transpose a song to another key: ex. if you're in the key of Eb and some one is singing in G, count the number of keys that G is away from Eb (4). Set the transpose to #4. So just count keys from where you are to where you want to go.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: BroAllan on June 17, 2007, 06:10:28 AM: Quote from: T-Block on June 16, 2007, 07:50:41 AM
I understand completely where yall are coming from. I just can't give my stamp of approval on using the transposing button because I feel it's wrong. You can disagree with me, but that's where I stand.

Like I said in an ealier thread, the keyboard is the only instrument with transpose. Every other instrument player in the world has no choice but to play in every key, so why should keyboardists be any different?

My Brother, guitar players have a Transpose tool they use, it's called a "Capo" ... and I've seen many good musicians, even professionals use it.

I totally agree with you that we should play in all keys, and in all honesty, I'm comfortable playing in maybe 9 keys, while the other three I can still play in, but I'm not as skillful playing them.

BUT, I'll be working diligently to nail down all 12 keys so I can be a "Real Musician!" ;) When that day comes T-Block, I'll be sure to let you know because you are both an inspiration, and a great help to me and many others!
God Bless You T! BroAllan :)
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: drums2keys on June 17, 2007, 05:10:31 PM: Just stay away from that button on my 88 keys in the church i dont even know how to find the transpose mode.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: KevinP on June 18, 2007, 03:35:48 AM: Quote from: BroAllan on June 17, 2007, 06:10:28 AM
My Brother, guitar players have a Transpose tool they use, it's called a "Capo" ... and I've seen many good musicians, even professionals use it.

Yes but a capo doesn't just allow you to cheat and play in a different key (which it does), but it allows things that you could play otherwise. I sure don't know any gospel examples, but a pop song that uses the capo in a high position, the seventh fret, is the Beatles' 'Here Comes the Sun,' which couldn't really be played note-for-note in the same key without the capo.

To answer the original question, about positive or negative numbers, you can go either way. From Eb to F would be +2 but you could also get there by -10, although it would sound an octave lower. Generally, you should go to the nearest one. Also, it's better not to think of it as +/-12 (actually, it's +/-11 anyway since 12 would just be changing the octave), but to think of it as +/-6. That covers all the keys right there and gets you tot he closest one.

I generally don't like the transpose function either, but there have been times when, right before the service began, our pastor gave me some music to play which I was unfaimliar with. No way can I sightread AND transpose.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 18, 2007, 06:52:02 AM: Quote from: BroAllan on June 17, 2007, 06:10:28 AM
My Brother, guitar players have a Transpose tool they use, it's called a "Capo" ... and I've seen many good musicians, even professionals use it.

Wow, I stand corrected. I never knew guitar players could transpose. Well, that's 2 instruments. That's still a very small number compared to all the other instrument players who have no choice but to play in every key.

Quote from: chevonee on June 15, 2007, 03:20:10 PM
Now I know that this is a very dumb question and if you want,

Oh by the way chevonee, this isn't a dumb question. There are no dumb questions when it comes to music. Just thought I'd point that out. ;)
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: KevinP on June 18, 2007, 07:04:11 AM: Quote from: T-Block on June 18, 2007, 06:52:02 AM
There are no dumb questions when it comes to music.

Where's the volume control on my acoustic piano?
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 18, 2007, 07:14:32 AM: Quote from: KevinP on June 18, 2007, 07:04:11 AM
Where's the volume control on my acoustic piano?

HAHAHAHAHAHA, when u find it let me know!!! ;D :D
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Salvador on June 18, 2007, 07:22:46 AM: Man I bring up capos everytime this issue is brought up and no one ever paid attention to me. >:(
Quote from: KevinP on June 18, 2007, 03:35:48 AM
Yes but a capo doesn't just allow you to cheat and play in a different key (which it does)
What is the "it" in this sentence? A capo or transpose button.

But you can note for note transpose on a guitar. I did it while trying to figure out Be It Unto Me by Marvin Sapp.
It's in Bbm so I downtuned my guitar so I was playing things in Am but the notes were down half a step (to Bbm).

And BroAllan is right. I'd actually take it a step further and say that something like 80% of the guitar tapping stuff you hear and see there's alternate tunings and/or capos involved. I have a hard time believing someone like Mark Tremonti has a bad musical ear.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Ladyn on June 18, 2007, 09:48:51 AM: I am not that skilled in all 12 keys yet, but I won't use the button because I feel it is counterproductive. If I am playing in the key of C and I "hear" the key of F or Ab I am making false connections between my brain and my hands. I don't know all of the technical lingo to explain it properly, but I think you hinder or slow down your ability to play in all 12 keys using that "button".

I can play comfortably in about 9 keys, the others I can play basic progressions in, but can't improvise yet. I think we want to rush ourselves too much. I will not play like ____________ (you fill in the blank) because he/she has been playing for 10 years or more!!!!! I have only been playing one year. I don't play in my church yet even though I do play better than the current keyboardist, and I know more theory(no joke she uses the button! ) I DON'T CARE EITHER!
I refuse to do anything I am not ready for. JMHO. When the Lord says so I will play under Her direction.

Nichole
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Kendall1 on June 18, 2007, 03:32:57 PM: Just remember it this way. If you can only play in Eb and the person is playing in F then remember this...If you transpose in the + then you move the key F back how ever many spaces u want. If you transpose in the - then you're transposing the key F up.

Transposing + equals moving F back to the E key
Transposing - equals moving F up to the F# key

Mr. Keyz AKA REV
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 18, 2007, 07:45:34 PM: Quote from: Kendall1 on June 18, 2007, 03:32:57 PM
Just remember it this way. If you can only play in Eb and the person is playing in F then remember this...If you transpose in the + then you move the key F back how ever many spaces u want. If you transpose in the - then you're transposing the key F up.

Transposing + equals moving F back to the E key
Transposing - equals moving F up to the F# key

Mr. Keyz AKA REV

Maybe it's just me, but the way u got this worded is a little confusing. I had to re-read it a few times before I understood it.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: KevinP on June 18, 2007, 08:23:12 PM: Quote from: Salvador on June 18, 2007, 07:22:46 AM
Man I bring up capos everytime this issue is brought up and no one ever paid attention to me. >:(What is the "it" in this sentence? A capo or transpose button.

Capo.

I agree you can note-for-note transpose on a guitar by tuning and/or using a capo, especially when you're only going up or down a few steps, but not necessarily when you're dealing with large transpositions like up a fourth or fifth. At that point, using the capo gives quite a different sound because you're playing in a different register. Take your basic D major chord in which you play the high E string open and then hammer-on the F#. If you want to do that in A, you have to capo at the seventh fret because, without one, you can't finger the root on the fourth string (which would be open in D) and play the first string open and then hammer-on. I agree you could do this an octave lower, using the open A chord, but the effect would be different. If you're just strumming it's probably okay, but if you're finger-picking with a melody on top, the capo allows things you can't normally play.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Shadow_ on June 19, 2007, 03:06:45 AM: Quote from: drums2keys on June 17, 2007, 05:10:31 PM
Just stay away from that button on my 88 keys in the church i dont even know how to find the transpose mode.
Same here bruh!...But a word to every one whose learning to play in all keys...it'll come. Just keep at it...and even when you learn them all...you'll realise there still more...and when you get THERE you realise (yet again) theres more to learn...etc.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 19, 2007, 03:04:42 PM: Quote from: Shadow_ on June 19, 2007, 03:06:45 AM
Same here bruh!...But a word to every one whose learning to play in all keys...it'll come. Just keep at it...and even when you learn them all...you'll realise there still more...and when you get THERE you realise (yet again) theres more to learn...etc.

So true, you never really stop learning.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Rjthakid on June 19, 2007, 03:46:39 PM: I play Organ. I CAN'T transpose.

So if somebody starts to sing in Bminor :'( or E, I have no choice but to play.

If there's one thing I don't like it's EXCUSES.

EXCUSES will cause you to live below your potential for the balance of your life.

EXCUSES will make you look back and say "I COULD'VE been great...."

EXCUSES will make you a second-rate musician.

I'm not a GREAT musician just yet, but I can play in every key. I can't rip it up with crazy changes and runs, but I CAN PLAY IN EVERY KEY.

I've been playing for about a year.

If you've been playing for 3 years and can only play in 5 keys.....
.....and 1-4-5 in every other key.......

......You need to prioritize better.

By prioritize I mean:

STOP working on that crazy progression you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that crazy run you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that solo you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that shout you're learning in your favorite key......

....and START working on your 7-3-6-2-5-1-4 progressions in EVERY key.

For me the song was "There is none like you".

I played it in every key till I was comfortable in every key.

Then as I learned a new progression, I would play it in every key.

It's really a matter of practice. Once you understand certain concepts of music, you have to practice to get your muscle memory up to speed with your music knowledge.

I've said all this to say: "Don't transpose"

:D :D :D
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: ddw4e on June 19, 2007, 04:33:16 PM: Quote from: Rjthakid on June 19, 2007, 03:46:39 PM
I play Organ. I CAN'T transpose.

So if somebody starts to sing in Bminor :'( or E, I have no choice but to play.

If there's one thing I don't like it's EXCUSES.

EXCUSES will cause you to live below your potential for the balance of your life.

EXCUSES will make you look back and say "I COULD'VE been great...."

EXCUSES will make you a second-rate musician.

I'm not a GREAT musician just yet, but I can play in every key. I can't rip it up with crazy changes and runs, but I CAN PLAY IN EVERY KEY.

I've been playing for about a year.

If you've been playing for 3 years and can only play in 5 keys.....
.....and 1-4-5 in every other key.......

......You need to prioritize better.

By prioritize I mean:

STOP working on that crazy progression you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that crazy run you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that solo you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that shout you're learning in your favorite key......

....and START working on your 7-3-6-2-5-1-4 progressions in EVERY key.

For me the song was "There is none like you".

I played it in every key till I was comfortable in every key.

Then as I learned a new progression, I would play it in every key.

It's really a matter of practice. Once you understand certain concepts of music, you have to practice to get your muscle memory up to speed with your music knowledge.

I've said all this to say: "Don't transpose"

:D :D :D
LOL! great points. I did the same thing...I picked a song and play them in every key but I picked a slow, medium and fast song and did them in every key..You can actually play slow songs easily (if you actually tried) in every key cause you have time to think where to go in the song...medium and fast songs you don't have that kind of time and that's where your basslines and progressions is of the essence to you.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 19, 2007, 04:48:31 PM: Quote from: Rjthakid on June 19, 2007, 03:46:39 PM
I play Organ. I CAN'T transpose.

So if somebody starts to sing in Bminor :'( or E, I have no choice but to play.

If there's one thing I don't like it's EXCUSES.

EXCUSES will cause you to live below your potential for the balance of your life.

EXCUSES will make you look back and say "I COULD'VE been great...."

EXCUSES will make you a second-rate musician.

I'm not a GREAT musician just yet, but I can play in every key. I can't rip it up with crazy changes and runs, but I CAN PLAY IN EVERY KEY.

I've been playing for about a year.

If you've been playing for 3 years and can only play in 5 keys.....
.....and 1-4-5 in every other key.......

......You need to prioritize better.

By prioritize I mean:

STOP working on that crazy progression you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that crazy run you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that solo you're learning in your favorite key.

STOP working on that shout you're learning in your favorite key......

....and START working on your 7-3-6-2-5-1-4 progressions in EVERY key.

For me the song was "There is none like you".

I played it in every key till I was comfortable in every key.

Then as I learned a new progression, I would play it in every key.

It's really a matter of practice. Once you understand certain concepts of music, you have to practice to get your muscle memory up to speed with your music knowledge.

I've said all this to say: "Don't transpose"

:D :D :D

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: BroAllan on June 20, 2007, 04:21:03 AM: Quote from: Rjthakid on June 19, 2007, 03:46:39 PM
I play Organ. I CAN'T transpose.

So if somebody starts to sing in Bminor :'( or E, I have no choice but to play.

I'm not a GREAT musician just yet, but I can play in every key. I can't rip it up with crazy changes and runs, but I CAN PLAY IN EVERY KEY.

I've been playing for about a year.

If you've been playing for 3 years and can only play in 5 keys.....
.....and 1-4-5 in every other key.......

......You need to prioritize better.

WOW! You've only been playing for a year, and can play in all keys?! I think that's amazing! You might be one of those who are blessed and pick up super fast. :)
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Rjthakid on June 20, 2007, 09:28:17 AM: Quote from: BroAllan on June 20, 2007, 04:21:03 AM
WOW! You've only been playing for a year, and can play in all keys?! I think that's amazing! You might be one of those who are blessed and pick up super fast. :)

I practice alot. I'm not super gifted but I practice alot.

I'll take one chord and just play it through the circle of 4ths repeatedly

The chord I'm doing now:

C/F-G-Bb/D-Eb-Bb Cm11

We have a 3 bedroom apt. One for my wife and I, one for my daughter, and one has my hammond and keyboard. ;D
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Ladyn on June 20, 2007, 01:47:54 PM: Quote
WOW! You've only been playing for a year, and can play in all keys?! I think that's amazing! You might be one of those who are blessed and pick up super fast. Smiley

Quote
I practice alot. I'm not super gifted but I practice alot.

I'll take one chord and just play it through the circle of 4ths repeatedly

The chord I'm doing now:

C/F-G-Bb/D-Eb-Bb Cm11

I am right there with you Rjthakid. I have only been playing for a year and I can play in all 12 keys too. I practice a lot as well and study anything I can get my hands on. I am not able to do everything in all 12 keys, but I can do 7 3 6 2 5 1 in all 12. I play better in some keys than others RIGHT NOW. I also play around the circle of 4ths. I even take one song like Amazing grace and play it using the same fills etc in all 12 keys. I think that is vital to learning how to play well in all keys. I don't want to be the one scooted off of the keyboard because I can't play a simple hymn!!!!!

The other key is to know your SCALES!!!!! I know many muscians who want to play all of the latest music, but they don't want to learn scales?????? From scales you get chords, with chords you form progressions, progressions make songs.

JMHO

Nichole
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: chevonee on June 20, 2007, 04:19:45 PM: Man oh man...did I open up a HUGE can of worms...I want to thank you guys for all of your encouragement....I'm not going to make any more excuses because I know that just like someone said...It's going to come....the bottom line is that I am learning how to read music and play in every key...I am in in the first grade as far as my music reading is concerned ;D ;D ;D And I know how to play in the keys of C, Db, Eb, Ab ...Bb is so-so...but hey I am taking the steps to get better and better.......I pray and then I practice and I am more than confident that thru Christ...I WILL MAKE IT...and T-block...all of yall...I'm going to make ya proud ;D ;D ;D ;D If you are just learning and starting out...listen to these guys, they just want to make you better not bitter....so just keep ya head up<-----a little Tupak...LOL ::)
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Salvador on June 21, 2007, 04:15:32 AM: Quote from: KevinP on June 18, 2007, 08:23:12 PM
but not necessarily when you're dealing with large transpositions like up a fourth or fifth. At that point, using the capo
I was mainly talking about alternate tunings. Capos are very limited. As are tunings but not as limited.

There's one very distinct difference though with guitar vs. keyboard transposing, from a moral standpoint at least. Guitar players who use use capos or alternate tunings usually they've pretty much mastered the guitar in standard tuning. It's not a crutch but a mechanism that takes the song where it couldn't go otherwise.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: momuzik on June 21, 2007, 08:58:01 AM: I can kinda understand why some people transpose. If someone breaks out in a song in a key you don't know, it makes sense to transpose for that moment than to just sit there or mess up the song.
We all know that you don't learn all keys in an instant, it takes time; some longer than others. So in the meantime while you're in the process of learning all keys, what do you do?
So a beginner who transposes, I can understand; but if someone is claiming to be advanced or professional and transposes - ???
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 21, 2007, 03:20:13 PM: Quote from: momuzik on June 21, 2007, 08:58:01 AM
it makes sense to transpose for that moment than to just sit there or mess up the song.

No, it doesn't make any sense at all to transpose. If you have to just sit there and play nothing, that is way better than hitting transpose and "frontin". If you can't do it, then don't feel bad. Just realize that you need to practice harder and next time it comes around, you can jump right in cuz of your practice.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: ddw4e on June 21, 2007, 03:29:18 PM: That what the "T" in T-Block for?
"Transpose-Block" :D :D
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 21, 2007, 05:41:44 PM: Quote from: ddw4e on June 21, 2007, 03:29:18 PM
That what the "T" in T-Block for?
"Transpose-Block" :D :D

HAHAHAAHHA, very funny D. :D
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Shadow_ on June 21, 2007, 07:02:40 PM: Quote from: T-Block on June 21, 2007, 03:20:13 PM
No, it doesn't make any sense at all to transpose.If you have to just sit there and play nothing, that is way better than hitting transpose and "frontin".If you can't do it, then don't feel bad. Just realize that you need to practice harder and next time it comes around, you can jump right in cuz of your practice.

I agree with that. Thats what pushed me. well...pushING...cause theres still a lot of things i'm yet to get better at.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: BroAllan on June 22, 2007, 04:30:47 AM: Quote from: momuzik on June 21, 2007, 08:58:01 AM
I can kinda understand why some people transpose. If someone breaks out in a song in a key you don't know, it makes sense to transpose for that moment than to just sit there or mess up the song.
We all know that you don't learn all keys in an instant, it takes time; some longer than others. So in the meantime while you're in the process of learning all keys, what do you do?
So a beginner who transposes, I can understand; but if someone is claiming to be advanced or professional and transposes - ???

I agree! I've been in situations where I knew the song but wasn't familiar with the key it was in, and in some instances I didn't play :( and in other cases I hit the "TRANSPOSE BUTTON" :o :o and played along with the rest of the team, and believe me, "it felt good to jump in and play along with everyone!!!" :D :D

After that, I'd work on playing that song in different new keys, and build up my skills and abilities as a keyboardist and musician ...

I don't use the transpose button anymore when playing, but through hard work and practice am able to "take the keys which once were my weaknesses and turned them into strengths..." :) God bless, BroAllan
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 22, 2007, 06:49:12 AM: Quote from: BroAllan on June 22, 2007, 04:30:47 AM
and in other cases I hit the "TRANSPOSE BUTTON" :o :o and played along with the rest of the team, and believe me, "it felt good to jump in and play along with everyone!!!" :D :D

Well, I actually felt bad doing it cuz I knew better. Weird huh?
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Salvador on June 22, 2007, 02:10:30 PM: First off, I'm not trying to attack anyone here...but this is something that always bugs me when this issue is brought up.
Maybe I’m the only one but it feels like in this issue the actual ministry aspect is trumped by the musical aspect.
I know as well as anyone here the need and the fruit of practicing and being fluent in all keys. Believe me.

But.
You’d seriously fumble around the keyboard or just drop out completely?
Some of you guys would really hinder the praise/worship because you don’t want to “front?”
And font to who? Other musicians? I mean whose approval are we really playing for now?
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: momuzik on June 22, 2007, 03:01:50 PM: I feel you on that. I think I'd rather transpose (if needs be) and continue to flow in the spirit of praise and worship than to shut the music down because I don't know that particular key. Afterward, I would go home and learn that key.
To be honest, to transpose or not to transpose is a personal decision. Unless you're a musician paying attention, no one would know you are transposing except you (until you sit down at an acoustic).
I can see where transposing could become a crutch, but if any musician was honest with themselves and sincere about learning, they would practice in all keys - inspite of an occasional transposed song.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Rjthakid on June 22, 2007, 04:16:39 PM: Quote from: Salvador on June 22, 2007, 02:10:30 PM
First off, I'm not trying to attack anyone here...but this is something that always bugs me when this issue is brought up.
Maybe I’m the only one but it feels like in this issue the actual ministry aspect is trumped by the musical aspect.
I know as well as anyone here the need and the fruit of practicing and being fluent in all keys. Believe me.

But.
You’d seriously fumble around the keyboard or just drop out completely?
Some of you guys would really hinder the praise/worship because you don’t want to “front?”
And font to who? Other musicians? I mean whose approval are we really playing for now?

I agree with you to an extent. If you're a beginner (playing for only a few months) and you can only play in certain keys, then transpose instead of embarassing yourself and hindering the Praise & Worship, because it's about GOD and NOT about us.

But at what point do you say "I'm beyond that"?

You CAN'T be playing for 2 years, 5 years, 7 years, and still use that excuse.

You can't be able to absolutely RIP Ab and look like a fool in E (which you won't if you try to learn Israel songs. They're in E alot).

If you practice EVERY DAY in EVERY KEY then that excuse no longer applies. Who are you fronting to? You're fronting to YOURSELF.

Here's something that helps me. When I sit down to practice, I think "what key have I been neglecting?"

THAT'S the key I concentrate more heavily on for that day.

"Transposing: It's like a man doing girl push-ups"
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: T-Block on June 22, 2007, 06:12:39 PM: Quote from: Salvador on June 22, 2007, 02:10:30 PM
But.
You’d seriously fumble around the keyboard or just drop out completely?
Some of you guys would really hinder the praise/worship because you don’t want to “front?”
And font to who? Other musicians? I mean whose approval are we really playing for now?

Well, for one if the spirit is there, and the praise and worship is real, u really don't need any music.

Second, what about the instruments who don't have transpose? Should they stumble through and mess up the flow, or stop and according to you, mess up the flow? It's a lose/lose situation all because u neglected your practice. Now, it's coming up to bite u in the behind when u really need it.

Non-musicians put so much pressure on the up-and-coming musicians instead of letting them take their time and practice and get better at their instrument before just pushing them up because there is no musician. Then, once they do get up, people expect them to be able to play any and everything.

If u can't do it, then don't do it. Period.
Title: Re: Here's a dumb question, but I want to know so here it goes..
Post by: Ladyn on June 23, 2007, 11:50:37 AM: Quote
Well, for one if the spirit is there, and the praise and worship is real, u really don't need any music.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!! Some of the most precious times in the presence of the Lord I have seen came when there was no music; just a singer singing a hymn etc.

Is the flow always dependent upon the music? I don't think so. I would not fumble around to mess up something.

Quote
Non-musicians put so much pressure on the up-and-coming musicians instead of letting them take their time and practice and get better at their instrument before just pushing them up because there is no musician. Then, once they do get up, people expect them to be able to play any and everything.

This is a big problem!!! I don't play at my church yet ( I will be next month), but we have run into this problem in our church. I refused to be pushed somewhere I know I should not be. Our musicians are not able to really play much because of their limitations when it comes to just about everything! I teach the vocal parts, and I have to get on the keyboard and actually play the parts for us because our keyboardist can't. She could do it if she took some time to really understand chords.

Time and patience are what every Christian musician should pray about. You need ample time to practice and yes study. You also need the patience to let your abilities grow!!!! There is no way you are going to sound like Richard Smallwood in only 1-2 years of playing, but you can grow steadily each year as you are patient and willing to put in the time practicing.

JMHO

Nichole