LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Bass Guitar => Topic started by: dfwkeys on July 06, 2007, 05:08:32 PM
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I need an amp that will play for about 500-1500 people at the max. I ran acroos Ampeg BA-210 SP , and there was nothing but good reviews. I'm looking for punch, volume and tone. The price for this is $649.99, although pricey i'm will to make the investment. Is this worth getting and investing the funds. I know Ampeg is like the Mercedes of all the cars so quality is usually built into it.
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I'm not sure if that will help if you use it alone. Once you add the band, you might get drowned out. I would suggest at a 4x10 cab and a head. BTW, if Ampeg is the Mercedes, than Eden is the Rolles Royce. ;D
(I had to say that because I love my Eden)
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Yeah, I'm not sure a 2x10 would cut it unless you get an amp with a DI out and run a line to the house.
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What is a good amp and head that i can get for a max of $650.00, i need something with good tone.
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will you have PA support?
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for the amount of money you want to spend and the size of audience you're playing with, you might need to search the used market for a good setup.
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for the amount of money you want to spend and the size of audience you're playing with, you might need to search the used market for a good setup.
Well i have goals, right now i'm just starting at with around 100-200 people, but i plan to move up by faith... so eventually i know that i will need a better set, so i figured why not get the best right now.
So let's start with 100-200 people then, i'm looking at some heads, gallien -krueger backline 600 for $299, and a nice cab.
the equipment i'm playing with is a Sketcher custom bass, and a 180 watt peavy combo amp 1x15... is it possible to run a cab through the 180 watt peavey combo amp... (just curious)
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i use a ampeg ba 210 sp at church and yes it will push a room the size of a warehouse
and i dont have it turned all the way up i use a active 5 string ibanez bass and i have no
problem at all being heard and my church has 600 member and drums and keyboard ,guaitars,horns and flutes it will do the job and will sound very good also best
combo i have ever played on :D
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i use a ampeg ba 210 sp at church and yes it will push a room the size of a warehouse
and i dont have it turned all the way up i use a active 5 string ibanez bass and i have no
problem at all being heard and my church has 600 member and drums and keyboard ,guaitars,horns and flutes it will do the job and will sound very good also best
combo i have ever played on :D
That's all i need to hear is a good testimony. Amen!!! now i'm will purchase this, of course after playing... GuitarCenter is like the Toys R Us for musicians
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There's your answer.
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My suggestions...........
$299 @ Avatar. (http://www.avatarspeakers.com) Make sure to get a 4ohm cab.
(http://avatarspeakers.com/pictures/B212nohole.jpg)
$439 @ Musicians Friend (http://www.musiciansfriend.com)
(http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/9/2/453292.jpg)
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This is a nice deal here, too. Click on the pic.
(http://www.carvin.com/images/product/BRX112NEO1.jpg) (http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=BRX112NEO&CID=BRX)
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my suggestion would be the gallien-krueger 700rb, or the 1001rb. I just purchased the the 1001rb for a very good price & there is alot of tone & power. I looked at plenty of heads, (edan, ampeg, epifani, hartke, fender, swr, etc). to me not one of them stood up to the gallien-krueger, when your are talking getting most for your $. the 1001rb gave me more of a natural tone, not much coloring. now i'm lost on the cabinets. I'm looking for A cabinet myself. I'v heard good things about the avatar & dr. bass cabinets, but it's all hear say. Since you really can't go to any store to try one. Now for the gallien-krueger, wayman tisdale & norm stockton, endorses gk prouducts. I think they both use the 1001rb or the 2001rb & the neo 212. the neo 212 suppose to be one bad cabinet. The rep from gk said that maurice fitzgerald picked up the neo 412. now that is some pretty good endorsing, wouldn't you say. well thats my 2cents.
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RE: Avatar cabs............
I currently own 2 (sold a 1x15) and have been a user for 5 years now! Excellent cabs for the money. Great customer service and fast shipping (less than a week)! I'm an experienced musician with over 30+ years of playing and have tried everything under the sun. Avatar can hang despite all the negativity from gear snobs! In addition, I don't think the original poster is looking to spend a ton of money. The 1001RB typically goes for $750 and the 700RB goes for $600. He won't have anything left for a cab!
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i use a ampeg ba 210 sp at church and yes it will push a room the size of a warehouse
and i dont have it turned all the way up i use a active 5 string ibanez bass and i have no
problem at all being heard and my church has 600 member and drums and keyboard ,guaitars,horns and flutes it will do the job and will sound very good also best
combo i have ever played on :D
Dude you are pushing a warehouse size church without reinforcement with just a 2x10. Man that is awesome. My church at college was an old airplane hanger so it is wide I am pushing 1500 watts rms into 6 10's all of which are getting a good workout. I might have to pay ampeg's website a visit. I would recommend a 4x10 with eminence speakers or my personal favorites the madison speakers. avatar seems to build a pretty superior cabinet for not that much money. As far as heads you need to find something to match you cabinet
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dwbass, no disrespect. But the initial statement was he would be willing to make the investment if needed. for the head he mentioned at 649.00.The reason why the 1001rb usually sales for 750.00 & the 700rb sales for 600.00, is because most people do not do there homework before purchasing anything, they buy on inpulse. The reason I know is because I have been in sells for over 20 yrs. I personelly bought the 1001rb head for 625.00 including taxes, brand new in the box. & the store still made $125.00 profit. you do the math, that should tell you dealers price. Before you buy anything of any value, always do your homework, & never pay what there asking for. It's your job to save as much money as possible when buying & it is the sales persons job to take as much money out of your pocket as they can. you should always be a smart shopper.
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dwbass, my apologies, I read it wrong, he was looking at a combo. still he should go into the store with his mind set, that he will get what ever, for the amount he wants to spend.
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I would go the route that DW suggested because you'll be able to expand in the future. That's a wiser investment in my opinion.
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My suggestions...........
$299 @ Avatar. ([url]http://www.avatarspeakers.com[/url]) Make sure to get a 4ohm cab.
([url]http://avatarspeakers.com/pictures/B212nohole.jpg[/url])
$439 @ Musicians Friend ([url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com[/url])
([url]http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/9/2/453292.jpg[/url])
I gues i need to educate myself about cabs, what isa 4ohm, in fact, where is a site i can learn all the specs about cabs/ amps etc...
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Most amps function optimally at 4ohms. Many amps have a rating on the rear panel stating how much wattage is output at 8ohms and at 4ohms. Most amps do not go below 4ohms but there are a handful that go down to 2ohms. So basically, if you only wanted to buy and use 1 cab, you would want to get a 4ohm cab. If you planned to buy another cab and use both, you would get both cabs at 8ohms. 2 8ohm cabs coupled together creates a 4ohm load ensuring the amp outputs it's highest wattage.
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okay i finally purchased today:
Peavey 115bx (black widow)
&
Peavey 410TX
(350 watts each) a total of 700 watts... i only paid $25.00 because i traded in about $900.00 worth of equipment that i know i wasn't going to use... I've played it at the stare called music go round, and it had the walls shaking, nice tone etc... now i need a good head amp to go along with this...
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To add on on the above comment, i'm considering purchasing the peavey tour 450 or either the 700.. any suggestions?
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To add on on the above comment, i'm considering purchasing the peavey tour 450 or either the 700.. any suggestions?
If I were in you shoes I would now only let my finaneces determine which hear I would get. What I've learned about Peavey is that they will last.
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To add on on the above comment, i'm considering purchasing the peavey tour 450 or either the 700.. any suggestions?
I would stay away from the Max series heads. I had the max450 before I moved to eden. The main reason I wanted to get rid of it was because it lacked power. I had the 210 and 115 cabs both at 4 ohms, and my head was suppose to be pushing 450 watts at 2 ohms. I never felt it. I've read reviews on these heads and that's what customers are dissappointed about. You will fair better with the Tour series head or maybe go with a pre-amp and power amp setup. It all depends on your financial situation. As far as the cabs, you have more than enough cone surface to make people's pace makers go haywire. I know that I speak highly of Eden alot, but I can honestly say, Peavey makes great equipment that is affordable for everyone. They've been around for many of years and will continue to be around.
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okay i finally purchased today:
Peavey 115bx (black widow)
&
Peavey 410TX
(350 watts each) a total of 700 watts... i only paid $25.00 because i traded in about $900.00 worth of equipment that i know i wasn't going to use... I've played it at the stare called music go round, and it had the walls shaking, nice tone etc... now i need a good head amp to go along with this...
I'll assume both of these cabs are 8ohms?
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I'll assume both of these cabs are 8ohms?
the 410 is 8ohm, i blieve the 15 is 4, but i need to double check
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I would stay away from the Max series heads. I had the max450 before I moved to eden. The main reason I wanted to get rid of it was because it lacked power. I had the 210 and 115 cabs both at 4 ohms, and my head was suppose to be pushing 450 watts at 2 ohms. I never felt it. I've read reviews on these heads and that's what customers are dissappointed about. You will fair better with the Tour series head or maybe go with a pre-amp and power amp setup. It all depends on your financial situation. As far as the cabs, you have more than enough cone surface to make people's pace makers go haywire. I know that I speak highly of Eden alot, but I can honestly say, Peavey makes great equipment that is affordable for everyone. They've been around for many of years and will continue to be around.
are the max450 and tour450 the same amp?
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are the max450 and tour450 the same amp?
Max 450-which has since been discontinued
(http://www.absolutemusic.com/images/Max450BassHeadLargeWeb.jpg)
Tour 450
(http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/9/2/453292.jpg)
I haven't played the tour series head, but looking at how fast the Max hit the scene and then left, I'm sure the Tour series is much better.
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Oh ok. I like the tour. If I didn't have a bass pre that I am crazy about and plan on mating it with a power amp, I'd be getting the tour 700.
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I'm reading a lot of bad reviews of the tour 700... saying that the power goes out for like 10 seconds, and you don't get a full sound i was thinking of the Gallien-Krueger 700RB-II Bass Head which has nothing but positive reviews on it.
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the 410 is 8ohm, i blieve the 15 is 4, but i need to double check
If the 15 is 4ohms, don't plan on using them together unless you get an amp that goes down to to 2ohms.
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the 410 is 8ohm, i blieve the 15 is 4, but i need to double check
Take the 15 back if its 4 ohms and get an 8 ohm cab.
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Take the 15 back if its 4 ohms and get an 8 ohm cab.
Those are good cabs and a classic setup. But yeah, you should switch out the 115 like dd was saying so you can play them together for a total 4 ohm load, or you need to get a 2-ohm stable head. )Short of it is, that won't be optimal either for these two cabs.) Those heads are harder to find and usually (not always) cost more.
Adding the cabs together will draw more from the amp and will give more speaker surface area, so it will be louder.
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Those are good cabs and a classic setup. But yeah, you should switch out the 115 like dd was saying so you can play them together for a total 4 ohm load, or you need to get a 2-ohm stable head. )Short of it is, that won't be optimal either for these two cabs.) Those heads are harder to find and usually (not always) cost more.
Adding the cabs together will draw more from the amp and will give more speaker surface area, so it will be louder.
all this ohm is still new to me.. so the lesser the ohm, the more powerful the sound. the 410 is powerful by itself, so will the 115 effect the power of the 410? ?/?
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Guitar Center has these amp heads by Mark Bass Little Mark II. Phenominal little head I need to get one myself after the new basses come in. They are like $550.
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/ptidwell/LittleMarkII.jpg)
Aslo another nudge in replacing that cab with another 8 ohm. Reading through this thread, there is a lot I could say, I've been doing sound reinforcement over the last twenty five years, and designed the system at our church so there are a lot of considerations to be made. Recently I have downsized my own rig, I am not playing out as much and the majority of the venues (including churches) have FOH support these days. At my church (A frame building seating 1200) I was using an Aguilar DB750 feeding a Bergantino NV610 monster setup. The band consist of a drummer (miced not shielded) two keyboards (FOH & monitors) guitar (FOH & monitored) and my big rig with no PA support I had plenty of volume to fill the house up with my rig alone, but because of stage volume and not over powering the backline, I could'nt get above 3 without over powering the vocals and muscians,and if one turned up everyone would in turn increase volume until it was blaring and sound check was a was of time. Rule of thumb is with PA support stage volume (backline) should never bleed or supersede the FOH volume, so at that level I could hear myself we had a great mix, but people in the last 12 rows said they could not hear me at all. So, I downsized and began using my ThunderFunk amp mainly because it's soooo much lighter, using only a Epifani UL210 for backline while sending DI post EQ to the FOH that hosts bi-amped 3 way EAW concert series mains, and EAW dual 18" subs, now I am being heard and felt in every seat in the house while not over powering the backline or the FOH, and the complements are coming in. I still maintain a monstr rig but the point here is that it is not always necessary or good that you over power your band mates. Although I should have known better I insisted on having my big rig because I didn't want my sound alterd my the inexperienced guys unstairs, but working with them has it at a level now where everyone is happy and levels are under control.
Sorry to derail the thread, but as the OP stated that his hope was to be at a church with 1200 plus capacity, more than likely when you show up with all your gear they may say we have DI and IEM or cans, you can leave all that in your car. After years of carrying gear you will say Thank You Jesus!
Try and select a head that has DI (post and pre) or a good DI box and hopefully you can trust the guys upstairs.
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Ohms are just a measure of resistance to current flow. So the less ohms the easier current can flow and and vice versa. As far as adding the 1x15. if you are adding it to a seperate channel on the amplifier it will usually have no effect of the performance of the 4x10. but if you are going to daisy chain it from the first box on the same channel it will lower resistance and cut the wattage proportionally to the ohm ratings of the two boxes. For example If I have 1000 watts going into a 8 ohm 4x10 and added a 1x15 at 8 ohms. Since the two are in parrallel the overall resistance the amp will see is 4 ohms and both boxes will get 500 watts.
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Say your amp has it's rating at 4ohms minimum..............
One of your cabs is 4ohms already! If you add that 8ohm cab, the results will bring the combined ohms down to 2.67. That is below the rating on your amp. Your amp is designed to operate at NO LOWER than 4ohms. Do not use those 2 cabs together.
Another thing...............
Most amps have 2 wattage ratings. 1 at 8ohms and 1 at 4ohms. The 4ohm rating is usually higher! So the above statement is incorrect. If the amp gives out 1000w at 4ohms and you use 2 8ohm cabs (giving you a 4ohm total load), then yes, both cabs share 500w each. The wattage increases as the ohms decrease.
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Say your amp has it's rating at 4ohms minimum..............
One of your cabs is 4ohms already! If you add that 8ohm cab, the results will bring the combined ohms down to 2.67. That is below the rating on your amp. Your amp is designed to operate at NO LOWER than 4ohms. Do not use those 2 cabs together.
Another thing...............
Most amps have 2 wattage ratings. 1 at 8ohms and 1 at 4ohms. The 4ohm rating is usually higher! So the above statement is incorrect. If the amp gives out 1000w at 4ohms and you use 2 8ohm cabs (giving you a 4ohm total load), then yes, both cabs share 500w each. The wattage increases as the ohms decrease.
so basically i need (2) 8ohm cabs and and good amp that has 4ohms - (and what does ohms stand for?)
okay i think i'm starting to get it. so for the best results, i can just leave the 115 out of the picture for now and play with the 410 8ohm in the meantime?
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so basically i need (2) 8ohm cabs and and good amp that has 4ohms - (and what does ohms stand for?)
okay i think i'm starting to get it. so for the best results, i can just leave the 115 out of the picture for now and play with the 410 8ohm in the meantime?
Yeah you can do that. My cab is 8 ohms and running my head bridge into it. I have room to add up two 3 more 8ohm cabs if I want to.
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(and what does ohms stand for?)
I hope I don't confuse you with this, But here goes.
Ohm's Law defines the relationships between (P) power, (E) voltage, (I) current, and (R) resistance. One ohm is the resistance value through which one volt will maintain a current of one ampere.
( I ) Current is what flows on a wire or conductor like water flowing down a river. Current flows from negative to positive on the surface of a conductor. Current is measured in (A) amperes or amps.
( E ) Voltage is the difference in electrical potential between two points in a circuit. It's the push or pressure behind current flow through a circuit, and is measured in (V) volts.
( R ) Resistance determines how much current will flow through a component. Resistors are used to control voltage and current levels. A very high resistance allows a small amount of current to flow. A very low resistance allows a large amount of current to flow. Resistance is measured in ohms.
( P ) Power is the amount of current times the voltage level at a given point measured in wattage or watts.
Ohms represents the amount of resistance in circuit. The circuit being your power amp and cabs. The lower the resistance the higher the power. The higher the resistance the lower the power. I hope this has helped :)
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Ohms Law was named after Georg Ohm.
Some more (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144244) info.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/dwalmz/amprear2.jpg)
This is one of my amps. On the left you will see 8ohms=200w and 4ohms=300w. On the right you will see 'speaker output', wattage and rating. 4ohms being the minimum. I could use (1) cab at 8ohms and get 200w from the amp. Or I could use (2) cabs at 8ohms each (or (1) 4ohm cab) for a total load of 4ohms and get 300w from the amp. I cannot use an 8ohm cab + 4ohm cab. This would bring my load below (2.67ohms) the minimum. Nor could I use (2) 4ohm cabs (2ohms). I could go higher but the higher you go, the lesser amount of wattage results. I hope this helps.
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good pictorial explination DWbass
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([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/dwalmz/amprear2.jpg[/url])
This is one of my amps. On the left you will see 8ohms=200w and 4ohms=300w. On the right you will see 'speaker output', wattage and rating. 4ohms being the minimum. I could use (1) cab at 8ohms and get 200w from the amp. Or I could use (2) cabs at 8ohms each (or (1) 4ohm cab) for a total load of 4ohms and get 300w from the amp. I cannot use an 8ohm cab + 4ohm cab. This would bring my load below (2.67ohms) the minimum. Nor could I use (2) 4ohm cabs (2ohms). I could go higher but the higher you go, the lesser amount of wattage results. I hope this helps.
Awesome, i'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I appreciate all your help in explaining to me regarding ohms, now i know what to look for.
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here are specs for a carving bx 1200
Technical Specs
• Advanced Equalization - three EQ sections
• Active Passive front panel input gain switch
• 5-band three sweep tone control section
• 9-band foot switch able graphic EQ
• Single knob silent Optical compressor with auto limiter
• Internal crossover for bi-amping
• Preamp DRIVE and MASTER volume controls
• XLR Direct out with Level, ground lift & pre-post preamp controls
• Effects loop Switch able by front panel or FS22 footswitch
• Tune output jack independent of mute switch.
• High-current Spekon connectors
• RMS 225W @ 8 ohms, 400W @ 4 ohms, 600W @ 2 ohms
• 800W 8 ohm bridge, 1200W 4 ohm bridge
• THD less than .03% at 90% output.
• Freq. Resp.: 20-20k Hz
• Dual speed fan
• Active Passive input (-10DB)
• 5.7 inches high x 21.6 inches wide x 12 inches deep
• Weight: 23 lbs.
• Made in San Diego, California
So when it says 600w @2hms that means it can handle a minimal load of 2ohms?
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So when it says 600w @2hms that means it can handle a minimal load of 2ohms?
Yes it can.
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I hope I don't confuse you with this, But here goes.
Ohm's Law defines the relationships between (P) power, (E) voltage, (I) current, and (R) resistance. One ohm is the resistance value through which one volt will maintain a current of one ampere.
( I ) Current is what flows on a wire or conductor like water flowing down a river. Current flows from negative to positive on the surface of a conductor. Current is measured in (A) amperes or amps.
( E ) Voltage is the difference in electrical potential between two points in a circuit. It's the push or pressure behind current flow through a circuit, and is measured in (V) volts.
( R ) Resistance determines how much current will flow through a component. Resistors are used to control voltage and current levels. A very high resistance allows a small amount of current to flow. A very low resistance allows a large amount of current to flow. Resistance is measured in ohms.
( P ) Power is the amount of current times the voltage level at a given point measured in wattage or watts.
Ohms represents the amount of resistance in circuit. The circuit being your power amp and cabs. The lower the resistance the higher the power. The higher the resistance the lower the power. I hope this has helped :)
Okay.... some more info for those who care ... http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm)
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Check out the Kustom Groove Bass 1200 HD. You won't be disappointed. I've had mine for about 6 months. LOVE IT. I think it retails for about $650.