LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: TheBigO30 on October 04, 2007, 02:38:44 PM
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my brothers and sistas
Yesterday I was in a music store shop for a MO8 to buy, the saleman say me a question like where do i play at, how long I began playing, and what kinda of music I play, I told him gospel on the piano and jazz on my Axe ( my tromebone). The next thing came out his mouth shock me to the point i didn't buy anything out that store. Gospel musician are not real musician all we do is play by ear some of us don't known how to read music. We don't know how to play beethoven Piaon Sanata No .14 in C-sharp, all we do is ruin good gospel sound by adding worldly music to it, like rap and hip-hop.
I explain to him the gospel music is still the same just with a little updated beats. he said the Jesus didn't have to change his ministry to reach those who was lost, so why do gospel music have to sound like worldly music to what some my said reach the youth. I told him from the 70's to the 80's gospel music had change and from the 80's to the 90's it change also so.
But, before I can finish he quote Roman 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God. than quoted 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Chirst, he is a new creature: olds things ate passed away; behold, all things are become new*
He said thats for the Bible, Gods words, so why gospel musicians don't obey his word, i couldn't say a word, he saying how can gospel musicians can save souls by mixing Snoop Dog with Yolanda Adams, that is not pure gospel music. I told him if i play mary have a little lamb and I'll paly it for the Lord, I'll prayer he will honor it. he said How the Lord going to honor gospel music you mix worldly music that called ladies B's,that promote selling drugs, and killing each other. I was mad. he said the church want to be like the world and gospel Artist, Musician, and Preacher all in it for the money. he was dumbing all this on me!!
I was there to buy a board. he said how any time he heard keyboard/piano players comes in the store and talks about how much they make playing at this church and that church. he say a local keys player to play at his church. the frist thing the keys player say to him that charger $200. for one day and he don't play for small ministry. he end it by saying this (Jesus have all power to heal the sick, raise the dead, and perform all kinds a miracles, but did he charger anyone. No)
So why do gospel artist, Preacher and musicians think they can put a price on talents or gift God have giving them to save his people. i thought about what he said; is this the image the church he on the world today
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Sadly, that is the image that the world has. In some cases, that's the thought period.
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First of all, there are some gospel musicians who play classical music. I was trained a a classical trumpeter.
As fare as for gospel music sounding like worldly music, I may get a few blood pressures up when I say this, but I believe that some, not all, gospel songs or artists has gotten out of control. Some gospel songs to me sound more for entertainment rather than for worship. But, thats just my opinion...
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First of all, there are some gospel musicians who play classical music. I was trained a a classical trumpeter.
As fare as for gospel music sounding like worldly music, I may get a few blood pressures up when I say this, but I believe that some, not all, gospel songs or artists has gotten out of control. Some gospel songs to me sound more for entertainment rather than for worship. But, thats just my opinion...
You are not wrong NOR alone in your opinion!!! ;)
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Wow!!! :o
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You are not wrong NOR alone in your opinion!!! ;)
LOL
(http://www.projects.ed.ac.uk/areas/infservices/corporateinf/INF037/MeetingsDocuments/cosign_3d_lg.gif)
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What kind of musician was he? Classical? And what instrument?
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What kind of musician was he? Classical? And what instrument?
A narrow minded one. >:(
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A narrow minded one. >:(
Very narrow.
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Interesting.....
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my brothers and sistas
Gospel musician are not real musician
I remember one of my music instructors making that same statement -- :'(
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First of all, there are some gospel musicians who play classical music. I was trained a a classical trumpeter.
As fare as for gospel music sounding like worldly music, I may get a few blood pressures up when I say this, but I believe that some, not all, gospel songs or artists has gotten out of control. Some gospel songs to me sound more for entertainment rather than for worship. But, thats just my opinion...
Like Sjon said, you are not alone in your opinion. ;)
But, before I can finish he quote Roman 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God. than quoted 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Chirst, he is a new creature: olds things ate passed away; behold, all things are become new*
I will also say that it's wrong for that man to put all musicians in the same box, because all of us are not the same. This guy must don't wanna sell anything talking to people like that, he should have just sold you the keyboard and kept his mouth shut. Seems like to me he is quoting scriptures with his mouth but that Word evidently has not made it to his heart yet. That's just my 2 cents... ;D :D :o 8)
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maybe he had a bad experience involving gospel musicians recently. :(
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maybe he had a bad experience involving gospel musicians recently. :(
Not only that, but he probably can't play gospel music and he may want to try to discourage other gospel musicians. And he is wrong! There are some gospel musicians including myself that are classically trained.
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Not only that, but he probably can't play gospel music and he may want to try to discourage other gospel musicians. And he is wrong! There are some gospel musicians including myself that are classically trained.
You tell em honey!! I'm not classically trained but I am LGM-trained.;)
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To me all this guy is doing is raising the standard for us gospel musicians. We really need to watch how we talk and act, for people are watchin us. Now for us as musicians we really need to re-evaluate and see if we are really playin for the money or for the upbuilding of the kingdom of God. We should really look at what the money we make is going to, is it going to the enrichment or improvement of our gift and talent. For this is part of what it should be for. Lastly I do thing it would be great if we raised the standard of gospel musicians learning how to play classical and or read music it will just make us better and the kingdom of God stronger.
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co-sign, he ask a local musician to play at his church, the musician said than he charger $200. to play and he don't play at small ministies.
the man i talk to is an Elder.
but it funny how some people agrees with him
i think he quote those scriptures trying to make a point, saying the if we are save and filled will the holy ghost than our passing life(go to the club, listing to rapper and hip-hop(r&b) all the old things shounld not gone, we suppose to new creature in Christ.so hip-hop gospel and rapper souldn't even be in the church, Now the church is calling hip-hop and gospel rap right , back in grandma day is was wrong. so what is the diffrents of the God his grandma sever from the God we serve today. nothing. what wrong with amazing grace it saved his grandma so why can it save young poeple today, it the same God. so why we need help for the world to do God work. that why the church are have so much problem today,because we welcome the devil in the Lords house by mix the Lords music with the world.Gospel Arits making songs with rappers remember when the church said the rap and hip-hop was bad for the kids, so why are some churches allow what is wrong, and saying it right.
well, he say why do we need hip-hop and rap in gospel music. why do we need the help of the world to reach the young people.
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Interesting.....
VERY !!
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If I am not mistaken I believe Richard Smallwood is also classical trained.
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If I am not mistaken I believe Richard Smallwood is also classical trained.
Affirmative. His music has classical written all over it.....that and Darren Atwater being his orchestra director.
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Honestly, I'm not surprised but that is the image that is being given.
While not all but a good portion:
.....can't read music
......are happy transposing
......don't know what a scale or chord is
......don't know any theory.
......etc
and the real sad part is that alot of our musicians are completely happy with being in that state.
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Honestly, I'm not surprised but that is the image that is being given.
While not all but a good portion:
.....can't read music
......are happy transposing
......don't know what a scale or chord is
......don't know any theory.
......etc
and the real sad part is that alot of our musicians are completely happy with being in that state.
you know with these new boards that you came out, that you can sample and make beats everyone can be a hot musicians, 8) :D :D
some poeple don't have to study chords, scales, major, minor, etc...
all they have to do is make a phat beat with a chord or two, with a right hook, you got yourself a hot songs. 8) 8)
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you know with these new boards that you came out, that you can sample and make beats everyone can be a hot musicians, 8) :D :D
some poeple don't have to study chords, scales, major, minor, etc...
all they have to do is make a phat beat with a chord or two, with a right hook, you got yourself a hot songs. 8) 8)
Yeah and I know about 20 of thiese "hot musicians" (adults) lving off of someone else because there hotness doen't product enough grip to sustain them. :)
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Yeah and I know about 20 of thiese "hot musicians" (adults) lving off of someone else because there hotness doen't product enough grip to sustain them. :)
the next P-Diddy or lil Jon,
telling boys they here makes his own tracks, sampling music for the Jackson 5, or James Brown stealing their music saying it thier own.
I must be do it the wrong way, studing and praticing chords, scales, major, minor, etc...
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shoulda smacked him in the face
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shoulda smacked him in the face
I don't need to give him any more reason to think the gospel musician don't have any integrity
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You know GOD created everything and everything is for GOD. His comment has no foundation because music in general (Gospel, Jazz, Hip Hop, R&B, Country, Folk) are all for GOD. It doesn't matter if one can read music or not, the minute those fingers hit them keys, it is all for GOD. In respect for his opinion, we musicians do have to up our game. When we shed our chords, it is our duty to expand the gift GOD has given us. I play by ear, and now I am learning to read sheet music. I found reading music easy because I already know the chords like E7#5, to a BbM7b9, etc. Before I did not know the technical names for these chords, but I was playing them all the time. Now, these chords and progressions have a name. His comment is empty because he doesn't understand that when GOD bless you with a gift, it is from him and for him and instead of saying something like Gospel musicians are not real musicians, he should have said SOME Gospel musicians can't read music and in his opinion that is important to expand their talents. I know a dozen of 10 - 18 year old kids that will set the keys on fire and probably play circles around this person, but when you place sheet music in front of them, they are lost. People have their opinions of Gospel players but wherever we play, people listen. :)
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What that person doesn't understand is that what make gospel music what it is is the lyrics. You can play any type of music, it's the words that make it gospel. You can play any style of music and it's just music but if you add words to that music it becomes rock,r&b etc...You can also play music without word and dedicate it to the lord to express how you feel about him. So, it all depends on what the purpose or the heart of your making the music.
IN CHRIST
MIKE
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For me I feel that it is still the best way if you can actually reproduce what music you have or create if you only had a piano or organ. This to me defines if you are musician or not
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You tell em honey!! I'm not classically trained but I am LGM-trained.;)
Well, it's GREAT to be LGM trained. I enjoyed getting advice from all of the musicians on this website and if I'm not mistaken, I also believe that Twinkle Clark was classically trained. I know she majored in Music when she was in college.
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The guy was a little right and a little wrong. There are chuch musicians who play strictly for the money. some play at 3 churches and the second someone offers them 5 dollars more they are gone. So what was their purpose in being at the church they were at? the purpose was money. I've seen players leave a church for more money and don't even tell the pastor they are gone. Now is that right?
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A lot of older gospel musicians are trained and can sight read.
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I don't need to give him any more reason to think the gospel musician don't have any integrity
What he said.
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Well, it's GREAT to be LGM trained. I enjoyed getting advice from all of the musicians on this website and if I'm not mistaken, I also believe that Twinkle Clark was classically trained. I know she majored in Music when she was in college.
I can't disagree with you, it is gr8 to be classically trained there is no doubt about that. I wish that I was able to go to school but right now LGM is going to have to do. ;)
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This is all very interesting. First of all music was going on in heaven long before sin entered this world. All music was for the glory of God. As a result of sin later entering this world some of these music types have been used in the secular and "other worlds". Could this be a case of gospel musicians going to the enemies camp and taking back what he stole from us? :)
Another point, I have been to formal settings where they have a musician. When they are going through the programme singing songs on the program the musician does very well as he has his sheet music in front of him. Now when a soloist gets up and starts to sing something unexpected in my mind I start to laugh at them. I stress in my mind. I can't read sheet music, but I sure know that could've done a better job when a soloist or group goes up. Even if it is to find the key..
The moral of the story is that playing by ear has its purpose and should never be discredited.
Peace ;D
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This is all very interesting. First of all music was going on in heaven long before sin entered this world. All music was for the glory of God. As a result of sin later entering this world some of these music types have been used in the secular and "other worlds". Could this be a case of gospel musicians going to the enemies camp and taking back what he stole from us? :)
Another point, I have been to formal settings where they have a musician. When they are going through the programme singing songs on the program the musician does very well as he has his sheet music in front of him. Now when a soloist gets up and starts to sing something unexpected in my mind I start to laugh at them. I stress in my mind. I can't read sheet music, but I sure know that could've done a better job when a soloist or group goes up. Even if it is to find the key..
The moral of the story is that playing by ear has its purpose and should never be discredited.
Peace ;D
Yeah, I feel you on this. Again, its gr8 to have classical training if possible but you can't underestimate the benefits of playing by ear. I think that a musician needs to be able to read music but I also believe that your ears (with theory) are your best friend when it comes to ad-libbing and playing a song unexpectedly.
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It's sad to say but a point has been made. Although he's classifying all gospel musicians the same, which is wrong, he is actually speaking some truth. There's more booty-shaking in church then at the club. I'm all for moving in the spirit but the key word is in the spirit. We sometimes have people moving because the groove is hot. I'm not saying that we need to play like the pianist from Grandma's day but I think that if we are annointed, the annointing comes out through our music. Instead, what comes out in many churches is a riff from a 50 cent album.
We gotta stay pure. Let them copy us. We don't gotta copy them.
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Welcome to the LGM family "humbleservant".....Be Blessed.
PianoWiz...
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Welcome to LGM humbleservant!! I pray that this site blesses you as much as it blesses me. God bless!
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Instead, what comes out in many churches is a riff from a 50 cent album.
We gotta stay pure. Let them copy us. We don't gotta copy them.
*SIGH*
**firing up the peabody wayback machine**
And what came out some churches was----
The openin guitar lick from Earth Wind and Fire, "shining star"(quartets)
12 bar "blues"
guitar lick from prince's purple rain(bishop morton's "let it rain")
smh..
::)
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I have to add my 2 cents....
Alot of musicians in church are NOT Gospel musicians. I believe the church has lowered it's standards to allow anybody with a hot lick or two to play. Churches do not take the time to teach the musicians the ministry side of it. If you told them they were a Levite they wouldn't know if it was a compliment or an insult. Cats have no substance other than talent. Alot of church musicians do play by ear, myself included. Nobody wants to spend the time to master there craft or study.
I recently had the same issue when I was in a local music store. I was in the drum section and I was talking to the dude and explaining how it was hard to find cats I know to play with. He says "Your a church drummer huh?". He went to explain to me how Gospel musicians create "Packs". If you are not in the pack then you get no help or cats wont show you anything. Usually it's my age group that exhibits this type of attitude.
Regarding the whole church sounding like the world stuff....No one has still been able to show me in the bible Gospel progression, licks, or chords. The style of Gospel musician may change every 5 years but is the substance speaking on God's Love, being holy, and encouraging to the soul. That's all from me back to the drum forum I go.
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I agree with the fact that now every who can "jam" becomes the musician. Churches are looking to reach out and they wanna put the brother that can jam up there. I think to some extent this is wrong to do. Yes you need to reach out but we cannot give the wrong message to other potential musicians. We sometimes tell the musician with less talent but the strong desire to praise the Lord through music to sit down while the other musician with less annointing but more chords and licks gets to play.
I also believe that the phattest licks in musical history came from progressions that were learned in church. As the music evolves, so does the musician. They did steal it from us but they added on to it and now we aren't stealing it, we're copying it. There's a big difference in taking back what is ours and just copying what is already out there.
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BTW. thanks for the welcome.
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I agree with the fact that now every who can "jam" becomes the musician. Churches are looking to reach out and they wanna put the brother that can jam up there. I think to some extent this is wrong to do. Yes you need to reach out but we cannot give the wrong message to other potential musicians. We sometimes tell the musician with less talent but the strong desire to praise the Lord through music to sit down while the other musician with less annointing but more chords and licks gets to play.
I also believe that the phattest licks in musical history came from progressions that were learned in church. As the music evolves, so does the musician. They did steal it from us but they added on to it and now we aren't stealing it, we're copying it. There's a big difference in taking back what is ours and just copying what is already out there.
Man that happens so often. I will let the young cat with the strong desire play over a blazing cat any day.
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It's sad to say but a point has been made. Although he's classifying all gospel musicians the same, which is wrong, he is actually speaking some truth. There's more booty-shaking in church then at the club. I'm all for moving in the spirit but the key word is in the spirit. We sometimes have people moving because the groove is hot. I'm not saying that we need to play like the pianist from Grandma's day but I think that if we are annointed, the annointing comes out through our music. Instead, what comes out in many churches is a riff from a 50 cent album.
We gotta stay pure. Let them copy us. We don't gotta copy them.
[/qu
I was list to a sermon on a CD a friend give me, the Peacher was talk about the gospel music of today, he say on question. if gospel artis and Musicians is use rap and hip-hop to reach the youth, why is there no change in thier lives, Why are they still wearring thier jean half-way on thier butt, still talk that gangster talk. you will thing that the music will change thier lives. WOOW :o :o
than he siad than, how can you be rappin' for Jesus, with a group name like Gospel Gangsta. God don't have gangster, God has DISCIPLE
Last thing he said that why do artis use HIP-HOP with Gospel, thats like mixing water and oil, All we doing is confuesing the Church of tomorrow (the youth).
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I was list to a sermon on a CD a friend give me, the Peacher was talk about the gospel music of today, he say on question. if gospel artis and Musicians is use rap and hip-hop to reach the youth, why is there no change in thier lives, Why are they still wearring thier jean half-way on thier butt, still talk that gangster talk. you will thing that the music will change thier lives.[b] WOOW :o :o[/b]
than he siad than, how can you be rappin' for Jesus, with a group name like Gospel Gangsta. God don't have gangster, God has DISCIPLE
Last thing he said that why do artis use HIP-HOP with Gospel, thats like mixing water and oil, All we doing is confuesing the Church of tomorrow (the youth).
I would have to disagree with the bold part. As a former christian rapper with "Real Christian Rappers". I have seen change come with the lyrics we say. It's all about God just a different style of music. The form is different from traditional gospel but the substance remains the same.
What confuses them is telling them it's wrong to listen to christian rap when some of them speak on the same things Traditional Gospel artist speak on.... :-\
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I would have to disagree with the bold part. As a former christian rapper with "Real Christian Rappers". I have seen change come with the lyrics we say. It's all about God just a different style of music. The form is different from traditional gospel but the substance remains the same.
What confuses them is telling them it's wrong to listen to christian rap when some of them speak on the same things Traditional Gospel artist speak on.... :-\
ok I used to listing to rap music. all they rap about what they had, how many girls the slept with, killing, and have no respect for any authority, Now some gospel rapper rap about the samething, just minus the Killing and sleeping a round, all it is just a clean rap song, I listing to see if they're rappin about the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit maybe one song or two. but if you throw a Biggie' beat or a Jay-Z hook with that song. but if you hear one of those oldschool beats for back in the day you'll be think about the lyrics to the old school song instead of gospel lyrics.
the bottom line is if i'm delivery for those things of the world than why would I listen to something that is simular to it. (that means rap and R&B)
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ok I used to listing to rap music. all they rap about what they had, how many girls the slept with, killing, and have no respect for any authority, Now some gospel rapper rap about the samething, just minus the Killing and sleeping a round, all it is just a clean rap song, I listing to see if they're rappin about the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit maybe one song or two. but if you throw a Biggie' beat or a Jay-Z hook with that song. but if you hear one of those oldschool beats for back in the day you'll be think about the lyrics to the old school song instead of gospel lyrics.
the bottom line is if i'm delivery for those things of the world than why would I listen to something that is simular to it. (that means rap and R&B)
I guess I should quit doing Christian rap since this is the image I would have... :-\
How did this become the topic? I thought it was about Gospel musicians not being considered musicians...
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I guess I should quit doing Christian rap since this is the image I would have... :-\
How did this become the topic? I thought it was about Gospel musicians not being considered musicians...
well this topic is about that . the man i talk to did said some about hip-hop and R&B how we ues worldly music to reach the young.
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wow!! all i have to say is that music is an art and a gift, and what other way to express it than onto the Lord... People that think like him aren't educated enough and honestly that lack of understanding kills me!! I think there's a reason why there are different genre of music and if you listen carefully they derive one from another ... For example I'm latino hispanic right so, merengue comes from salsa, etc... I mean the world has a different opinion of the church is just like the people that think that you can have fun and be Save at the same time..... I dunno i really don't let that bother me.
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well this topic is about that . the man i talk to did said some about hip-hop and R&B how we ues worldly music to reach the young.
Lyrics Lyrics Lyrics....Those are the only thing that can make a song Gospel or Non Gospel. If we play a song that has a RnB feel but talks about the goodness of God, it's Gospel. If you have a song that sounds like Gospel but talks about killing and stealing, it's not Gospel.
Substance is what makes it Gospel, spreading the good news about Jesus. Not how it sounds according to beat or chord progressions. Be blessed
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Local radio staton ask this question. why don't churches invite gospel R&B artist and rapper to their churches.
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Local radio staton ask this question. why don't churches invite gospel R&B artist and rapper to their churches.
The group I am in does. We get invited to minister at most events for the youth. The most shocking thing about it is the older people like what we do even more because of the substance. We put the word into what we do. They might not be able to understand everything we say but they know when we speaking about God. Some churches are afraid of anything new. Over the last 50-60 years Gospel music has evolved and every time it changed church folks said it wasn't Godly. So I am not surprised with what happens now...
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Lyrics Lyrics Lyrics....Those are the only thing that can make a song Gospel or Non Gospel. If we play a song that has a RnB feel but talks about the goodness of God, it's Gospel. If you have a song that sounds like Gospel but talks about killing and stealing, it's not Gospel.
Substance is what makes it Gospel, spreading the good news about Jesus. Not how it sounds according to beat or chord progressions. Be blessed
CO-SIGNage!!!
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I Cor. 9:22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.
Nothing wrong with gospel rap and R&B if it's done for the glory of God. If it's drawing in young sinners, if souls are getting saved, if the youth are listening to lyrics about the gospel (regardless of the beat) instead of "gang/thug life" lyrics, that should be a good thing.
Now, I know you can't enter the Holy of Holies with gospel rap, but that doesn't mean there's no place for it. God has gifted many artist with a wide variety of styles to minister to people on all levels in many different areas of life. Gospel rap may draw the youth in, but that doesn't mean they'll stay on that same level.
Learning classical is good but it doesn't make the music any more holier. Being strong in theory, scales and chords is good too, but that doesn't increase your anointing. If your love for God is your motivation for what you do, He will give the increase.
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Now, I know you can't enter the Holy of Holies with gospel rap
I have to disagree wit u there. Just like u can enter in through a worship or praise song, you can enter in through a gospel rap song too.
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that's crazy!! i agree that we don't need music worldly music talkin' about money, women and shootin up folks, if we couldn't integrate anything contemporary into our music then we'd still be playing stuff from the Bible days and i don't kno about y'all but i don't kno how to play the psaltery or harp lol
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that's crazy!! i agree that we don't need music worldly music talkin' about money, women and shootin up folks, if we couldn't integrate anything contemporary into our music then we'd still be playing stuff from the Bible days and i don't kno about y'all but i don't kno how to play the psaltery or harp lol
haaaaaaaaaaaa
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haaaaaaaaaaaa
CO-SIGN!!!
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that's crazy!! i agree that we don't need music worldly music talkin' about money, women and shootin up folks, if we couldn't integrate anything contemporary into our music then we'd still be playing stuff from the Bible days and i don't kno about y'all but i don't kno how to play the psaltery or harp lol
Classic...LOL...I don't see either on sale at guitar center or Samash
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Classic...LOL...I don't see either on sale at guitar center or Samash
hm....the new PSA-101 "midi psaltry from Yamaha....with sounds from the motif...."
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hm....the new PSA-101 "midi psaltry from Yamaha....with sounds from the motif...."
That aint the one from the book of Psalms...LOL...That joint was just named Psaltry.
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Classic...LOL...I don't see either on sale at guitar center or Samash
I seen it on sale at www.oldasdustinstruments.com where u pay with gold & silver, LOL. :D
Waiting to see who actually tries to go to the site. ;D
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I seen it on sale at www.oldasdustinstruments.com where u pay with gold & silver, LOL. :D
Waiting to see who actually tries to go to the site. ;D
ok, how many foke clicked the link.....
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ok, how many foke clicked the link.....
Looks like u did, lol. :D
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ok, how many foke clicked the link.....
I didn't I read your post first....LOL
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Iam not surprised It was bound to happen.
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IMO, The title "musician" doesn't mean you read music. Stevie Wonder was classically trained, but I guarantee he doesn't read while he plays. I'm sure no one disagrees that he's a musician.
As far as conforming to the world. Your mind is transformed from celebrating the things of satan to using music to praise, worship, & glorify God. A lot of the lost souls in todays times listen to different music than they did 10 years ago. You have to reach people on their level. Proverbs 11:30 (KJV) 30...and he that winneth souls is wise.
As far as gospel music changing. Is he saying that his church sings the exact songs that David sang & sing them the same way David did? Probably not. Time & tradition are relevant. What he seems to be stuck in is religion & not relationship. You can wash your car religiously. But it's not for me to judge, just as it is not for him. Matthew 7:1 (KJV) 1Judge not, that ye be not judged. None of us have say so of who goes to heaven so why be judgmental. Maybe he thinks we have to all praise God with the same exact words and therefore no need for new artist with new songs. Oh well, just my 2 cents.
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I Cor. 9:22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.
Nothing wrong with gospel rap and R&B if it's done for the glory of God. If it's drawing in young sinners, if souls are getting saved, if the youth are listening to lyrics about the gospel (regardless of the beat) instead of "gang/thug life" lyrics, that should be a good thing.
Now, I know you can't enter the Holy of Holies with gospel rap, but that doesn't mean there's no place for it. God has gifted many artist with a wide variety of styles to minister to people on all levels in many different areas of life. Gospel rap may draw the youth in, but that doesn't mean they'll stay on that same level.
Learning classical is good but it doesn't make the music any more holier. Being strong in theory, scales and chords is good too, but that doesn't increase your anointing. If your love for God is your motivation for what you do, He will give the increase.
I really agree with what you are saying.
Also about the classical...
I play the bass, but I started playing the piano not too long ago. My desire to glorify God has brought me a very long way in my playing. I think thats all that counts; Does your praise and worship glorifie and magnifie Him? John 4:24, "God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." ...I do not have any formal theory training, but people that hear me play the bass, especially ask me, who taught me and how can they get lessons. I tell them God gave me that talent, and I play with my heart to worship Him. "People ALWAYS try to use logic...i just end there.." Have a blessed day everyone!
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Just thought that I'd through my 2-cents worth in.
First, Bach and Beethoven and Mozart, et. al. did not write classical music. They wrote contemporary music. Bach was constantly being chastised for including too much opera type things in his Cantatas and Oratorios. He also regularly dedicated his music, whether for the Church or for entertainment for the Royal Court, to the Glory of God. He would begin a piece with "JJ", which means "with Jesus' Help" and end it with "SDG" -- "To God's Glory Alone".
Martin Luther, in 1500's regularly borrowed secular "popular" tunes that were familiar to his people for his hymns. If you were to run into a version of "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" based on the original rhythm used in his time you would hear that it is very syncopated and rather "jazzy", and easier to sing -- not the straight laced rhythm that we are most familiar with.
I have difficulty seeing that there are any combinations of notes or of rhythms that in and of themselves are sacred or secular. As with all of things that God created (which is everything) it depends upon the purposes for which we use them.
The atom and the way it works was created by God. It has the power to do remarkable things. It also has the power to destroy. These uses come from human decisions. The atom, in and of itself is not evil.
That's enough of my rambling for the moment.
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First, Bach and Beethoven and Mozart, et. al. did not write classical music. They wrote contemporary music. Bach was constantly being chastised for including too much opera type things in his Cantatas and Oratorios. He also regularly dedicated his music, whether for the Church or for entertainment for the Royal Court, to the Glory of God. He would begin a piece with "JJ", which means "with Jesus' Help" and end it with "SDG" -- "To God's Glory Alone".
Exactly, especially the big part. Their music gets classified as classical, but back in their time it was contemporary.
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Exactly, especially the big part. Their music gets classified as classical, but back in their time it was contemporary.
troof.
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I have difficulty seeing that there are any combinations of notes or of rhythms that in and of themselves are sacred or secular. As with all of things that God created (which is everything) it depends upon the purposes for which we use them.
The atom and the way it works was created by God. It has the power to do remarkable things. It also has the power to destroy. These uses come from human decisions. The atom, in and of itself is not evil.
I agree with combinations of notes and rhythms to be of God but then again I've heard some stuff that sounds totally dark, spooky, menacing, or angry and they use the same notes and rhythms (i.e. Western-style of music) as hymns but your right it's the intent that your music implies. Although I wouldn't necessarily compose something for God with all diminished chords or altered chords because it feels tense and unsettling and I'd wanna do something to both glorify Him and uplift my brethren. (can you really compose anything for God since He knows everything and thus it may be new to you but been around forever to God? hmmm...interesting thought anyways...)
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Gospel musician are not real musician all we do is play by ear some of us don't known how to read music. We don't know how to play beethoven Piaon Sanata No .14 in C-sharp, all we do is ruin good gospel sound by adding worldly music to it, like rap and hip-hop.
But, before I can finish he quote Roman 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God. than quoted 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Chirst, he is a new creature: olds things ate passed away; behold, all things are become new*
He said thats for the Bible, Gods words, so why gospel musicians don't obey his word, i couldn't say a word, he saying how can gospel musicians can save souls by mixing Snoop Dog with Yolanda Adams, that is not pure gospel music. I told him if i play mary have a little lamb and I'll paly it for the Lord, I'll prayer he will honor it. he said How the Lord going to honor gospel music you mix worldly music that called ladies B's,that promote selling drugs, and killing each other. I was mad. he said the church want to be like the world and gospel Artist, Musician, and Preacher all in it for the money. he was dumbing all this on me!!
(Jesus have all power to heal the sick, raise the dead, and perform all kinds a miracles, but did he charger anyone. No)
is this the image the church he on the world today?
[/b]
wow shocking. you should've hit em wit 2 Cor. 9. just tell him to read the whole chapter. and yes sadly it is true things are more and more about money now a days. i can't speak for preachers, but musicians not lonly want to spread joy and the word, but we look at it like a job. We don't ask for much most of the time, just for what we think we were worth. Long services call for long money. God only aksed for 10% a day. 2.4 hours is fine to play free for. most of the churches I play for though have 4-6 hour services. Where da money at?! Just because most of those people didn't give their daily 2.4 hours don't mean you have to compile it into Sunday because even God understands that we have other obligations, He just wants to come first.
Spyda
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As far as being real musicians we are but as for the "worldly" gospel music, the guy has a point. Alot of songs come one the radio and I don't know what I'm listening to until they start singing.
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Was he white, or coonish?
I just wonder 'cause it sounds like something a person who worships Classical music would say. At any rate, yeah, sounds like you encountered a musical and spiritual idiot.
Who's looking to get fired.
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Was he white, or coonish?
I just wonder 'cause it sounds like something a person who worships Classical music would say. At any rate, yeah, sounds like you encountered a musical and spiritual idiot.
Who's looking to get fired.
Does it matter?
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Was he white, or coonish?
I just wonder 'cause it sounds like something a person who worships Classical music would say. At any rate, yeah, sounds like you encountered a musical and spiritual idiot.
Who's looking to get fired.
No he was a Brotha in his mid 50's, but the funny thing about this man. he is pro-level skill musician that plays with jazz and Classical bands. he competed against some of the top musicians in my area. some hang, some didn't. but he told them to play what they played in church. some played songs and some did shout music. what they played he played it back in differnet keys and in minors. he's real.... good,
i think so older musicians is just set in their ways, like some of us going to be when we get older.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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No he was a Brotha in his mid 50's, but the funny thing about this man. he is pro-level skill musician that plays with jazz and Classical bands. he competed against some of the top musicians in my area. some hang, some didn't. but he told them to play what they played in church. some played songs and some did shout music. what they played he played it back in differnet keys and in minors. he's real.... good,
i think so older musicians is just set in their ways, like some of us going to be when we get older.
;D ;D ;D ;D
What's up with all these HOT musicians that are working in music stores? Shouldn't they be making all their money playing music? Just a thought.
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What's up with all these HOT musicians that are working in music stores? Shouldn't they be making all their money playing music? Just a thought.
There are always a bunch of 'beast' working at guitar center
Was he white, or coonish?
I just wonder 'cause it sounds like something a person who worships Classical music would say. At any rate, yeah, sounds like you encountered a musical and spiritual idiot.
Who's looking to get fired.
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii314/Jlaws318/confused.jpg)
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There are always a bunch of 'beast' working at guitar center
Lucky for Guitar Center that I'm not good enough as a musician to work there. ;D I don't even think they get a commission.
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mane pleeze,i did a 10 yr bid at Sam Ash.....(back when u can make a living off of it...)
One good thing is you get to learn more(if you're willing) and you get discounts on gear. In some cases, free gear. Free plugins. Free software.....
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Lets skip the small talk. All the real Gospel Musicians lets stand together and show the world and the church. No matter what they label us, God is the only one that approves us. Gospel Musicians Stand Up I Am With Every Gospel Musicians. Together we stand divide we fall. I am a true G.M.
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Man that happens so often. I will let the young cat with the strong desire play over a blazing cat any day.
I agree with you. Thats how I became a musician at my chruch. Don't look at the skill look at the spirit. 8)
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Wow!!! :o
That would have made me mad
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Kindly point out to that person that classical music is "worldly" music too. Biblical/theological/doctrinal ignorance; the devil is a liar.
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What I don't understand is why certain styles of music are considered worldly music? So if the world decided to adopt the hymn styles of music, does that mean us gospel musicians can't play those anymore? That man took what he classifies as gospel music and what he classifies as worldly music and tried to make an argument on how gospel musicians are trying to mix gospel with the world...but he failed miserably.
Now I looked up the definition of "musician" and this is what I come up with
musician: One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music
So since when does one have to read music to be considered a musician?
And to comment on the whole playing for money. Well I don't play for money because I don't really play for my church anymore. Since they found out I could sing, I sing more in the choir while another younger pianist(who I would say is more skilled than me) plays. But back to my point, I'd play for free..but when I get so good(skill wise) to the point I can play with the best of them...and then Im required to travel everywhere with the church, play sunday mornings and nights...midweek services...special events....well, would it be wrong for me to get paid? Would it be wrong for me to expect pay?
Playing piano is a gift just like any other gift. God blesses everyone with gifts. Some can play instruments...and guess what...some can design houses. Some can argue up a storm, and are therefore great lawyers. Some people are people persons and make great social workers. Some people are athletic and skilled in certain sports. Some people can sell a microphone to a mime, and are therefore great salesmen. Some people can act their butt off. Some people can teach and they just know how to put things together for others to understand. Some people are great with their hands and can build, put things together. Some people are computer smart.
My point is that those are all gifts. Should I not want to get paid for using my gift of teaching? Or sales? Or my ability to understand technology?
I cannot work at telemarketing jobs because I just suck on phones. Some people are GREAT on those jobs.They just know how to talk to people. Yes that sounds little, but believe it or not, thats a gift. Some people know how to talk to people on phones. Its all the same. In those jobs, as lawyers and accountants and teachers, we go after the higher paying jobs. People think when you do something church related, that its a different story. Its not about the church. Its about God. Its about our relationship with God and thats a broad topic and that can be interpreted deeply.
Now when you do something in the spirit, it should be clean. You shouldn't be playing for God and when they money gets low, you get pissy. But is it not possible for one to play for one church and get paid and they play in the true holy ghost spirit with an anointing...then a bigger church offers them more money...they are still doing Gods job and using their God given gift, while getting more money. Does accepting that job mean they aren't playing in the spirit and are incapable of doing that anymore?
THINK ABOUT IT...and I'll be happy to respond to comments because Im sure im gonna get flamed by someone lol....or at least, some will disagree ;)
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I don't know if this has been said yet but here goes:
Thomas A Dorsey, who was a famous jazz player, started gospel music. He put jazz, the popular music at the time, to gospel lyrics. In his day he was run out of church for "that devil music" or whatever. Gospel artists of today (gospel rappers inparticularly) are going through the same thing. The irony, I think, is what was once seen as blasphemy is now seen as what Gospel music is supposed to be. :-\
You can apply 1 Corinthans 9:1-23 to this entire situation.
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Kindly point out to that person that classical music is "worldly" music too. Biblical/theological/doctrinal ignorance; the devil is a liar.
So true cuz most classical music was composed for the church anyway.
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many people think Gospel musicians are not real musicians because most if not all of them play by ear but really you need some theory to play by ear also. many musicians think because they hear a chord or a note on a song and it takes them forever to find the note or the chord they think thats playing by ear when its really not. Playing by ear is a skill that is driven from the major scale and it has to be learned just like reading music.
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the sad part about it is that while all of us here are making these counterpoints to what was said, the ones who represent this negative stereotype are the ones who get seen. the biggest question is how do we stay humble and honorable as we are, but get what we do and how we operate seen and exposed to the masses?
the world thinks that the pastor is pimping the church, but that seems to be the pastor that the world always sees. the world thinks that musicians are play-for-pay and arent saved, but thats the musician that the world always sees, etc. so how do WE get seen so they know there's another side to the coin?
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Some people are just ignorant. I am from VA, and my 18-year-old daughter just completed her first year at an HBCU in NC, majoring in Music Education. She has played the cello for over 7 years, and the last 4 of the 7 years was spent in a Music Magnet High School that had everything from Music History, all levels of Theory, and more. She has played piano by ear with me at our church, but she already knew theory. God is being glorified in our church and she is annointed by God to play several instruments. Neither of us is paid, but if we go out and someone gives an offering for the music, I make sure she gets it.
I said that to say this: Her piano teacher at the HBCU said that Gospel shouldn't even be played on a piano, in the sense that the music desecrates the piano!
My daughter was audibly upset, but I told her do what you have to so you can do well in the class and ignore the rest.....in other words, "Take the meat, and throw away the bone!" Everyone has an opinion, including the rest of us playing for God.
My daughter was required to audition for entry into the program, and auditioned so well that she recieved a partial scholarship to boot in a program that doesn't get strong funding from most Universities.....and yeah, she's a gospel musician. In addition, at 3 of the universities she tested in Music Theory and was designated to Advanced/3rd or 4th year college Theory.
Again, some people are so ignorant. If they don't understand, or can't scientifically prove something, they nullify everything about something.....People, eat your meat and you know what to do with the bones.
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Only difference between gospel musicians and classically trained musicians is that classical musicians write what they hear in their head and gospel musicians don't.
Both technically play by ear except the classical guy bothers to write it down while the gospel guy doesn't.
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Only difference between gospel musicians and classically trained musicians is that classical musicians write what they hear in their head and gospel musicians don't.
Both technically play by ear except the classical guy bothers to write it down while the gospel guy doesn't.
good point!
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Only difference between gospel musicians and classically trained musicians is that classical musicians write what they hear in their head and gospel musicians don't.
Both technically play by ear except the classical guy bothers to write it down while the gospel guy doesn't.
Don't speak for all gospel musicians. I write all my music down. ;)
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Don't speak for all gospel musicians. I write all my music down. ;)
I do the same after forgetting tons of progression.
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I do the same after forgetting tons of progression.
Which is why I write everything down cuz I know I will forget.
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Don't speak for all gospel musicians. I write all my music down. ;)
Oh yeah i forgot about hybrids like you. :D ;D
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Oh yeah i forgot about hybrids like you. :D ;D
HAHAHAHAHA, hyrids. :D
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Music is music. Even the ice cream truck can play music. It may not be the music he has a problem with, but the message and or the messenger. He may have tried to play gospel and it sounded like acid rock.
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Kinda reminds me of the movie "Drumline": each section of the band felt that they were the backbone of the band.
Since this guy is into classical music, maybe he just thinks "that's where it's at".
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I went back to that same store to buy some cable and that same guy is still there. he spoke and ask me if i still doing the gospel thing. i reply yes, and i ask him why do you feel that we are not real musicains. He reply cause some keyboard players dont do it for the love of Jesus but for the love of money. how many musicians today will play for the a church with out being paid. Then he said that gospel music change when yo turn on the radio and you can't tell the diffirence between gospel and Hiphop still you hear the words.
but the fun he's a member on this site and he read on form on this is that (if you don't have any music in the church its just a meeting). I think he an Ol skool player with alot of love for the Church. He feel instead of paiding musicians that said that they can play but only can play in one key or musicains demanding hundreds of dollars for churchs just for two or three days of week. He play for a Larger church in his home town and he said that he don't get paid or ask for any thing. He feel that if the Lord give you a gift why make the Lord pay for something that he gave you and the Jesus never charge for is services and he's the Son of God. I just listen to him, some of it made sense and some did't but he entitle to his opinion. We can't get made at him cause we haven't walk in his shoes. but we do have some musicians out there that is making a bad image for the ones that is trying to do it the right way.
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so how can he say a classical musician is a "real musician" because they dont do it for the love of Jesus?
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so how can he say a classical musician is a "real musician" because they dont do it for the love of Jesus?
Yes, good question.
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so how can he say a classical musician is a "real musician" because they dont do it for the love of Jesus?
Sometimes people are just talking out their #$%(^!
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so how can he say a classical musician is a "real musician" because they dont do it for the love of Jesus?
How can u make that assumption? Most classical music was created for use by the church anyways. Who's to say that they aren't playing for the love Jesus?
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I went back to that same store to buy some cable and that same guy is still there. he spoke and ask me if i still doing the gospel thing. i reply yes, and i ask him why do you feel that we are not real musicains. He reply cause some keyboard players dont do it for the love of Jesus but for the love of money. how many musicians today will play for the a church with out being paid. Then he said that gospel music change when yo turn on the radio and you can't tell the diffirence between gospel and Hiphop still you hear the words.
but the fun he's a member on this site and he read on form on this is that (if you don't have any music in the church its just a meeting). I think he an Ol skool player with alot of love for the Church. He feel instead of paiding musicians that said that they can play but only can play in one key or musicains demanding hundreds of dollars for churchs just for two or three days of week. He play for a Larger church in his home town and he said that he don't get paid or ask for any thing. He feel that if the Lord give you a gift why make the Lord pay for something that he gave you and the Jesus never charge for is services and he's the Son of God. I just listen to him, some of it made sense and some did't but he entitle to his opinion. We can't get made at him cause we haven't walk in his shoes. but we do have some musicians out there that is making a bad image for the ones that is trying to do it the right way.
You have to work on your english...or at least proofread more often ;)
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You have to work on your english...or at least proofread more often ;)
Ask Fenix to proofread for you. His english is excellent. :-\
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Ask Fenix to proofread for you. His english is excellent. :-\
:D
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How can u make that assumption? Most classical music was created for use by the church anyways. Who's to say that they aren't playing for the love Jesus?
who's to say they are? No i cannot make the blanket assumption that they arent, but to say gospel musicians arent real because they dont play for Jesus, but to say classical musicians are real, makes the inference that all classical musicians do play for Jesus, and thats a wrong assumption too.
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who's to say they are? No i cannot make the blanket assumption that they arent, but to say gospel musicians arent real because they dont play for Jesus, but to say classical musicians are real, makes the inference that all classical musicians do play for Jesus, and thats a wrong assumption too.
Gotcha, maybe I just interpreted u wrong earlier. I fully agree wit u.
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If a church needs a musician to handle its music ministry(which can take a lot of time and talent)and they want a quality musician, it would be unreasonable to expect that they would not have to pay them. In many churches that is a full time job. The churches that have found good and reliable musicians are glad that they have them and are willing to pay for their service. How could one find fault in that?
Many church musicians are good Christians, some are not but are good and decent church musicians. Some are not good and decent at all but are good at their trade. Some are good Christians but not so good musicians. Some are not good for anything. Churches simply have to choose as best they can. To look at a musician that you don't know, or even one that you do know and say that gospel musicians are not musicians is ridiculous and lingering in the area of stupidity.
Why didn't the salesman just slap the customer in the face? I see no difference.
Churches have to choose what their music ministry will be like. We go to churches as suits our choice of worship. Musicians as a rule, give their churches what they ask for.
If there is something wrong with the style or secular quality of the music service in a given church, it is most likely not the musician's fault. The pastor, deacons, elders and other church officials set that tone. The musician just complies. It would be just as easy to find a musician who played hymns or smooth contemporary music.
They are all musicians.
The salesman should have been aware of that.
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Ask Fenix to proofread for you. His english is excellent. :-\
Make one mistake and yo are crucified over and over again. ::)
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Ask Fenix to proofread for you. His english is excellent. :-\
And we present Exhibit A:
Make one mistake and yo are crucified over and over again. ::)
Who is yo? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :D
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:D
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And we present Exhibit A:
Who is yo? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :D
well at least he didnt make that typo fixing someone else's typo. that would get him put on the chopping block, which is basically locking him in a room with you with him wearing an "i love transpose" t-shirt. lol
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which is basically locking him in a room with you with him wearing an "i love transpose" t-shirt. lol
HAHAHAHA, it will be problems, LOL.
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You are not wrong NOR alone in your opinion!!! ;)
I'm witcha on that too...AND IM ONLY 18!!!!!!
But I know the difference...
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Well the devil can show thru ANYBODY!!! I played with all classical musicians from age 5 on up...maybe if I learned thru gospel first.. it would have not took as long as it did to Accept Christ into my life!! Glory be to God!I will definitely pray for that man...
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Its very funny when other musicians bring this topic up...So here is my answer.....The Lord gave "me" the gift to play piano WITHOUT formal lessons just as he bestowe gifts on others(e.g. the 12 apostles). The 12 apostles didnt have "formal" traing and yet they flipped the earth upside down...The Lord has also given me the ability to detect the pitch, rhythm, and emotion of a song...all for "his" glory...So when you look at it....He chose us.....us...to PLAY....I'm bout to shout.....
I thank GOD for sites such as this to perfect what the Lord has graciouly started...
Ok...I'm out
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here's my 2 cents, i was at a revival one time and while the preacher was preaching the musicians were playing don't leave by blackstreet. i was like what in the world. to me it doesn't matter what kind of training weather classical or lgm. it is to whom you present yourself to. all that we do should be to the glory of god. if jesus was in physical form in our churches today how would we present ourselves. some folks have lost touch with the reality that though christ is not here in physical form, but here in spirit; it seems to not matter. some of our churches as well as gospel musicians have lost sight of who gave them their gift in the first place. i've been playing for years and it's all free of charge cause god gave me this gift in the first place and all i did was ask. all that we do is on display. jesus said to let your light shine so all men can see. we are to mimic all that christ did. i don't recall the apostles rapping. the blood that was shed for all of us hasn't changed.all i'm saying is with the right attitude the gifts of god does what god says it can do, without any of us compromising with the world.
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HE RIGHT I TOTALLY AGREE ;)
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i don't recall the apostles rapping.
um, no one was rapping then.
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um, no one was rapping then.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA, good point. I was gonna say something to him bout dat comment, but it looks like u got him.