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Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: cakinbro on November 19, 2007, 10:07:58 AM

Title: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: cakinbro on November 19, 2007, 10:07:58 AM
Hey fellow organists. Is it just me, or when you go to most churches or when you start a service on organ, most organists typically start playing/warming up in Ab or C#??? I'm guilty myself sometimes  :), I like to start in C#, but then the praise and worship leader will tune up and start somewhere in the F# or G range. I have a few questions though, what's so great about Ab and C#? They are relatively kinda like playing in the same key, same chords/scales and all..... One of my close organ friends says he does it for pedal convenience....Just wanted to throw that question out there...What's so great about Ab and C#???? 
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: h313w on November 19, 2007, 11:13:39 AM
the whole music world has done it. black keys for black people... joking with you. you're saying, try E, B or A perhaps ? Eb maybe ? some folks just know Ab, Db, Bb. Never know. I got tapes of Thomas Whitfield LIVE  warming up in mostly d minor, c, C#, F#, G.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: jdightman on November 19, 2007, 11:30:44 AM
I'm guilty!!! I do it because it's comfortable. i don't mind the other keys but those two are just comfortable.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Rjthakid on November 19, 2007, 12:40:32 PM
Guilty.

For me it's mainly Ab.  As soon as I realize it I pick another key (D, E, A), but I STILL don't play in B as much as I should.

What I need to concentrate on: Minor keys.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: ddw4e on November 19, 2007, 01:34:34 PM
I start mostly in G and B and go from there.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: rpking on November 19, 2007, 01:51:05 PM
I'm not guilty of that, but it is so natural for Bb minor to be the first chord I play.  I have make a conscious effort to play another 1st chord.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: keb1209 on November 19, 2007, 03:17:59 PM
I'm guilty of it too.... not necessarily with Ab or C#, but with Eb and Bb.  I would like to  start out in the keys less familiar to me like B or E, but not until I get enough practice to where I know I can flow in them.  I would hate to warm up in B only to have someone open their mouth and start a song in B that I know I can't play to....LOL
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: docjohn on November 19, 2007, 04:10:09 PM
thank GOD your not in guitar bands!  last 6-7 years it seemed i ONLY played in E,G,B!!! these cats were too lazy to learn all keys and could only play with a capo.Praise LORD for allowing other keys,F,Bb,Ab,Eb    also,some songs SOUND better in certain keys and the changes just fall so sweetly into place.Amen?????
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: organplaya04 on November 19, 2007, 04:11:14 PM
I'm guilty of it too.... not necessarily with Ab or C#, but with Eb and Bb.  I would like to  start out in the keys less familiar to me like B or E, but not until I get enough practice to where I know I can flow in them.  I would hate to warm up in B only to have someone open their mouth and start a song in B that I know I can't play to....LOL
Same with me...I'm guilty of that as well. I mostly always start in C# to warm up...but yea like keb1209 I would hate to start playing in a key that I'm not fluent in and then they start singing and I can't flow with them...and I've been in this kind of situation before...Lord knows I hate that!
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: henrythrower on November 19, 2007, 04:15:47 PM
Guilty.  I actually just switched churches.  Traditionally I am a keyboard player, but the new church only has an organ.  On keyboard, I could flow well in about 8 keys, but on organ, since I am actually trying to play it like an organ, I can only really flow in Ab and C#, but I am being forced to work on it.  The Praise leader doesn't have an ear for the key that I am playing in, so Ab frequently becomes Eb, F or C and so on and so on.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: T-Block on November 20, 2007, 07:01:02 AM
I open up in D#.  ;D
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: waydrummer on November 20, 2007, 04:49:27 PM
Hey fellow organists. Is it just me, or when you go to most churches or when you start a service on organ, most organists typically start playing/warming up in Ab or C#??? I'm guilty myself sometimes  :), I like to start in C#, but then the praise and worship leader will tune up and start somewhere in the F# or G range. I have a few questions though, what's so great about Ab and C#? They are relatively kinda like playing in the same key, same chords/scales and all..... One of my close organ friends says he does it for pedal convenience....Just wanted to throw that question out there...What's so great about Ab and C#???? 

I don't get what ur trying to say.  Maybe I'm wrong (correct me if I am), but it sounds like to me as if u are downing playing in Db or Ab.  I usually open up with these two keys because 1) I've only been playing for about 4 years and those are the most fluent keys I can play in and 2) I like the way those keys sound because it gives you that "churchy traditional feel.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: cakinbro on November 20, 2007, 04:58:07 PM
O no...I'm not down playing C# or Ab...Because earlier I said that I usually open up in C#.....and adding to what you're saying, Ab and C# are two common church keys. When I started out playing I could only play in Ab....but after years and countless hours of practicing, I was able to grab a hold to lots of chords and scales and make my own sound...

But I'm not downing those two keys because they are two of my favorite keys.... :) ;)
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: waydrummer on November 20, 2007, 05:50:53 PM
O no...I'm not down playing C# or Ab...Because earlier I said that I usually open up in C#.....and adding to what you're saying, Ab and C# are two common church keys. When I started out playing I could only play in Ab....but after years and countless hours of practicing, I was able to grab a hold to lots of chords and scales and make my own sound...

But I'm not downing those two keys because they are two of my favorite keys.... :) ;)

LOL so that's all I have to do get good and create my own style?  Sounds easier than it actually is.  Im stuck I try to practice in different keys but I just can't retain the new stuff I learn like I oul for C# and Ab
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Mysteryman on November 21, 2007, 02:24:41 PM
I open in the key the person is talking in. :)
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: changedman on November 22, 2007, 04:34:56 PM
Hey fellow organists. Is it just me, or when you go to most churches or when you start a service on organ, most organists typically start playing/warming up in Ab or C#??? I'm guilty myself sometimes  :), I like to start in C#, but then the praise and worship leader will tune up and start somewhere in the F# or G range. I have a few questions though, what's so great about Ab and C#? They are relatively kinda like playing in the same key, same chords/scales and all..... One of my close organ friends says he does it for pedal convenience....Just wanted to throw that question out there...What's so great about Ab and C#???? 


SEE...THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHY I SHOULD NOT (OF ALL PEOPLE) BE IN THIS ROOM!  LOL!  BECAUSE IT PROVOKES ME TO START ASKING QUESTIONS...


1) What is the "purpose" of warm-up chords.  If you can play then you can play, right?  I'm an amateur organist who really wants to know because I am sure I'm missing out on a lot so please HELP!!

2) I am the first one to admit that when a song is in a key other than Ab, Bb, or C# I RUN WITH BOTH FEET FROM THE ORGAN!!  I start getting the shakes and all.  But that is because I'm a choir director who plays a little, not a musician who directs.

I'd be interested in knowing what some of you did to "build" your confidence. 
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: cakinbro on November 23, 2007, 10:35:49 AM
I do that most of the time....Open up in the key they are talking in...then in open cases, I just play a hymn or something soft and mellow

Warm up chords are basically chords that are played through various progressions that you play...for example 1-4-5's, 7-3-6-2-5-1's....just a matter of what you're feeling at that moment

As far as building up your confidence...Most importantly, practice, practice and practice more!!! I come from a music background to where I got hazed for hours and hours until I got what was showed to me  :). But you have to practice...in your practice time that gives you the opportunity to break and show things down at a pace to where you can get it. Also don't be afraid to hit a wrong note. Many of times I've hit lots of wrong notes or got stuck within a musical phrase, watch a few of my clips  ;). But its key to learn from them. And hang around musicians that are just as good or better than you. Every now and then you can learn and chord/run from them.  Hope this helps!!  :) ;)
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: bishop424 on February 06, 2008, 05:01:22 PM




I used to opened up like but I like D and E natural because I can get a more feel on organ by using different chords.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: key-wiz on February 09, 2008, 10:15:12 PM
Well I'm Guilty Too But I've Been Instructed To Start Every Service In C#! Plus That Is The Key That Pastor Winans Sings In Most Of The Time! LOL! ;)
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: brodonny on February 11, 2008, 04:34:54 AM
 ::) i'm guilty too.i don't know what it is maybe because a lot of songs are in those keys but there is no excuse.lol
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: normandm85 on February 11, 2008, 04:03:11 PM
Yeah I do too, it's just a coincidence that a lot of gospel songs are in those keys. But like you said it's no excuse. In my practice time I just practice the white keys anyways and in the dark lol   ?/? :D ;) :)
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: under13 on February 11, 2008, 04:30:09 PM
Yeah I do too, it's just a coincidence that a lot of gospel songs are in those keys. But like you said it's no excuse. In my practice time I just practice the white keys anyways and in the dark lol    ?/? :D ;) :)

Yeah thats the best way to practice, it will pay off
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: bishop424 on February 11, 2008, 05:59:26 PM



The 2 hardest key to play in which I am practicing in. is B natural and F#/Gb

Chords and Scales
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: travo5 on February 12, 2008, 10:18:53 PM
Yes their are lots of songs created in Ab and Db. But wait also C,D,E,F,G,A,B. You just have to be able to play in every key. Most churches opens up in the key of G, Ab, or B.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: B3Wannabe on February 12, 2008, 11:43:19 PM
I open in the key the person is talking in. :)

And there you have it!

;)
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: key-wiz on February 13, 2008, 10:39:42 AM
And there you have it!

;)

LOL :D
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: organman88 on February 15, 2008, 11:52:06 PM
when u play in the black keys your foot can stay to the lower part of the foot pedals and Ab and Db are the most comfortable for the foot. When i play in the white use the swell sometimes because the notes on the foot pedal is to high and is sometimes uncomfortable to hit especially on a fast song. Another reason I maybe in E major and I want to hit a low B the 5 of E but the lowest pedal note is C. During devotion you can use the normal bass run on the foot pedals in Ab also
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: organman88 on February 15, 2008, 11:59:00 PM
when u play in the black keys your foot can stay to the lower part of the foot pedals and Ab and Db are the most comfortable for the foot. When i play in the white use the swell sometimes because the notes on the foot pedal is to high and is sometimes uncomfortable to hit especially on a fast song. Another reason I maybe in E major and I want to hit a low B the 5 of E but the lowest pedal note is C. During devotion you can use the normal bass run on the foot pedals in Ab also
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: C-note jr. on February 18, 2008, 04:12:34 PM
I'm guilty of starting in Eb, and Ab sometimes B these are the keys my praise team loves to sing in comfortably
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: shortfuse88 on August 28, 2008, 10:11:18 PM
I'm not going to lie. I use to do it myself. I use to start of in C#, but then I thought about it that I need to stop and start getting fimilar and comfortable with other key and that what I did. ;D
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: ssbrew7 on August 29, 2008, 12:39:17 AM
Guilty as well. I sometimes warm up in Eb and many of you guys are right, it is for convenience...I mean ive warmed up in Ab before and the singer for praise and worship was in C....Thats why we must practice in the keys that are the least comfortable so that we get used to warming up in C, G, A, etc...
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: B3Wannabe on August 29, 2008, 01:19:16 AM
I've made it a habit now to start in the key of the person that's talking. If no one is talking then I'll start in D, E, or A. It may sound weird, but G is a hard key for me now. It didn't used to be.

I need to work on that one some more.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Metronome on August 29, 2008, 10:34:00 AM
E major.........or F# minor..............for no reason lol
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Ramar on August 29, 2008, 11:16:05 AM
First of all, let me say I'm guilty as well...

Don't you know that Ab or Db to organists is what C and Eb are to keyboardists?

My theory is this: the keys of Ab and Db has more black keys than any other keys, which makes it easier to accomplish the "heel-toe" method... I mean who likes to play shout music/congregational music in on the organ in A? Not to mention, doing runs on the organ (using the major scale for the most part, and I guess the blues scale as well) are much easier to do in those keys... I mean why do you think Tye Tribbett picked those keys for "I still got Joy?"

As for my keyboard analogy: Alot of Keyboardists love C and Eb because of the same reason: the pentatonic (blues scale without the b5) in Eb is all black keys(and in C, let's just face it, the pentatonic easy to play), major scale riffs are much easier to accomplish, and last of all it's easier to TRANSPOSE lol!!! Everyone knows that -4 is Ab and +3 is Eb(when you're playing in C)!!!

And also, alot of keyboardists(who don't play organ), don't know how EASY it is to play in Ab on the organ... and how DIFFICULT it can be to play in C on the organ.

But you know the weird part

Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Ramar on August 29, 2008, 11:19:28 AM
First of all, let me say I'm guilty as well...

Don't you know that Ab or Db to organists is what C and Eb are to keyboardists?

My theory is this: the keys of Ab and Db has more black keys than any other keys, which makes it easier to accomplish the "heel-toe" method... I mean who likes to play shout music/congregational music in on the organ in C? Not to mention, doing runs on the organ (using the major scale for the most part, and I guess the blues scale as well) are much easier to do in those keys... I mean why do you think Tye Tribbett picked those keys for "I still got Joy?"

As for my keyboard analogy: Alot of Keyboardists love C and Eb because of the same reason: the pentatonic (blues scale without the b5) in Eb is all black keys(and in C, let's just face it, the pentatonic easy to play), major scale riffs are much easier to accomplish, and last of all it's easier to TRANSPOSE lol!!! Everyone knows that -4 is Ab and +3 is Eb(when you're playing in C)!!!

And also, alot of keyboardists(who don't play organ), don't know how EASY it is to play in Ab on the organ... and how DIFFICULT it can be to play in C on the organ.

But you know the weird part


Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Ramar on August 29, 2008, 11:20:23 AM
Sorry for the double post.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: under13 on August 29, 2008, 01:15:35 PM
First of all, let me say I'm guilty as well...

Don't you know that Ab or Db to organists is what C and Eb are to keyboardists?

My theory is this: the keys of Ab and Db has more black keys than any other keys, which makes it easier to accomplish the "heel-toe" method... I mean who likes to play shout music/congregational music in on the organ in A? Not to mention, doing runs on the organ (using the major scale for the most part, and I guess the blues scale as well) are much easier to do in those keys... I mean why do you think Tye Tribbett picked those keys for "I still got Joy?"

As for my keyboard analogy: Alot of Keyboardists love C and Eb because of the same reason: the pentatonic (blues scale without the b5) in Eb is all black keys(and in C, let's just face it, the pentatonic easy to play), major scale riffs are much easier to accomplish, and last of all it's easier to TRANSPOSE lol!!! Everyone knows that -4 is Ab and +3 is Eb(when you're playing in C)!!!

And also, alot of keyboardists(who don't play organ), don't know how EASY it is to play in Ab on the organ... and how DIFFICULT it can be to play in C on the organ.

But you know the weird part



interesting. I kinda agre but I think it all depends on what you practice. I know cats who Are good in keys like C, D, A,G etc, but dont play as well in other keys. Why? Because they practice in those keys. I believe that if we were to play more in those keys, we would be better in them.

But I also think those keys are often considered easier, because it is easier to do slurs and runs because of the fingering, and like you said, playing the pedals is a lot easier in those black keys.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Sinfonian7 on August 29, 2008, 02:20:57 PM
I am guilty as well...I can "get by in most keys but when I warm up, I usually start in one of my stronger keys (my weaker ones being D,E and A)... But many times when someone starts a song off, they just start off wherever so it is good to know how to play in every key just in case.
Title: Re: STOP OPENING UP IN Ab and C#
Post by: Freddy229 on September 12, 2008, 08:37:41 PM
Personally I think it doesn't matter what key you start to play in! I've heard cats play the most basic stuff 'warming up' and then just literally BLAZE the organ on a 'song' so it doesn't really matter. I like to challenge myself so if I'm somewhere where I don't play all the time I'll take the volume down and then catch the singers where they are...think about it, if they can't sing you gon have to catch 'em anyway! If they know their stuff you're gonna have to move to where they are also... Try warming up in B or F# those are keys people start singin in without any music-be prepared for that one! lol

Get your fingers loose and ready to stretch to those God inspired extensions!