LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Style => Jazz => Topic started by: DaNatiMaestro on November 30, 2007, 01:02:41 PM
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I'm shedding and taking lessons from a jazz musician in the area and the first thing he asked me to do was play a standard. So I played Autumn Leaves in the key of Bb. So I started to play and found myself running the bass with my left hand and playing chords in the right hand. After I did this for a few minutes he stopped me and said. Ok that was cool now play it with the chords in your left hand and the melody in your right hand. Boy, did the song slow down and sounded choppy. He said "Ah-ha!!!" In order to play with a band you have to learn to chord fully with your left hand to free your right hand to solo or chord. So I went home and practiced but I neeed something more.
I went to Sam-Ash and got the following book... The Jazz Pianist: Left-Hand Voicings and Chord Theory w/ CD by Fred Hughes.. This book has hands down increased my playing.
I can see how this left hand chording would be significant in the gospel arena where I play on a weekly basis not just on the organ but on the piano as well. I see so many guys who play well on their own but when thrown into a band setting they never can fit in because they always have to play the bass while they are playing. Guess what.. you have a bass player or someone running key bass so you have to give them room by playing chords with both hands. Also you have to know where to play your LH chords on the piano so they don't sound too muddy or too high.. The book says you want to keep your chords in the area between E below middle C and G above middle C. I have found that you can go a little bit below and above this but not too much.
Also your left hand chords have to flow so that you aren't jumping all over the keys trying to voice your chords. The book I named above will help tremendously. The book starts off with simple triads and runs you all the way up to 13th chords all in the left hand.
Maybe I'll go through a song like Giant Steps or There Is No Greater Love and chord out just the left hand so you can begin to see how to approach a chord progression.
Main point: If you don't already, begin taking some of your right hand chords and play them with your left hand. If anything you'll make your bass player happy!!
Another tool for your toolbox...
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Good Stuff, man. Thanks for sharing.
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Great stuff man!!!!! :D I have to see if the music store down here has that book
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That's what I need seriously...
Don't know if they have it here in South Africa..
Don't want 2 cough up too much on shipping costs.
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That's really good advice. I do recall when I just started to play the keyboard, I was playing the basic chords in my left and the melody in the right. A musician saw me playing and "corrected" me telling me to play the chord in my right hand. Since then I have been playing them in my right. Now when I want to play them in my left I'm so sorry that I stopped practicing that way. It's like a forgotten language, but I hope I can work back on it some time. Peace. :)
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Thats great stuff man. I just want to know which inversions? Do you play them exactly like you would with the right hand?and what sort of runs do you do with the right hand?
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That's really good advice. I do recall when I just started to play the keyboard, I was playing the basic chords in my left and the melody in the right. A musician saw me playing and "corrected" me telling me to play the chord in my right hand. Since then I have been playing them in my right. Now when I want to play them in my left I'm so sorry that I stopped practicing that way. It's like a forgotten language, but I hope I can work back on it some time. Peace. :)
That musician that corrected you was probably right. In gospel settings when there is no bass player; 99% of the time you're going to be playing chords in the RH and the bass note in the LH on the keyboard. The problem with only playing with this approach is what happens when you are now playing in a band setting with other musicians and there happens to be a bass player or what happens when you have to play the organ? You can't have two people playing the bass with two different bass runs and ideas it won't sound very good and on the organ your foot is going to playing the bass.
I truly believe that you have to learn both ways. Chords in the RH, Bass in the LH, Chords in the LH, Melody lines and runs in the RH or Chords in both hands.
I challenge everyone to get their musicianship up to a point to where you can play in all facets. LH and RH.. You can do it.. you can do all things through Christ!!!
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I'm practicing DNat...i'll get there.
thanx 4 kindling the fire within.
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I can totally dig this... I came from the other angle... I am a jazz guy that had to learn the gospel way and I am always struggling with leaving the left hand chord thing out. :)
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Great post! You're absolutely right. One thing that will always keep me in business as a teacher is the age-old tradition of octaves in the left hand.
An easy stepping stone is to at least add 5ths or 7ths in the left hand. But please, STOP PLAYING OCTAVES IN YOUR LEFT HAND! Bass players are so easy going, lol.
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Great post! You're absolutely right. One thing that will always keep me in business as a teacher is the age-old tradition of octaves in the left hand.
An easy stepping stone is to at least add 5ths or 7ths in the left hand. But please, STOP PLAYING OCTAVES IN YOUR LEFT HAND! Bass players are so easy going, lol.
I'm working on the 7ths Darkwing..
I'm working on them thanks ;) :)..& other stuff as well of course 8)
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Great post! You're absolutely right. One thing that will always keep me in business as a teacher is the age-old tradition of octaves in the left hand.
An easy stepping stone is to at least add 5ths or 7ths in the left hand. But please, STOP PLAYING OCTAVES IN YOUR LEFT HAND! Bass players are so easy going, lol.
Can i ask why? I have hit this problem where for some crazy reason i always play power chords on my LH and then play inversions and extension son my RH.
An example is this;
C major LH- C G C, RH- E G C. I have not been able to break this habit and barely play root position chords on my right. Is this a bad way of playing? The bass player in church once asked me to not play so much bass and i was like what??? Does this method really get in the way of the bass player? I now have to play up the keys so i dont hit low notes but i still play the same way.
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Can i ask why? I have hit this problem where for some crazy reason i always play power chords on my LH and then play inversions and extension son my RH.
An example is this;
C major LH- C G C, RH- E G C. I have not been able to break this habit and barely play root position chords on my right. Is this a bad way of playing? The bass player in church once asked me to not play so much bass and i was like what??? Does this method really get in the way of the bass player? I now have to play up the keys so i dont hit low notes but i still play the same way.
We're creatures of habit, which is good and bad.
I'm probably like ALOT of musicians in that I KNOW alot of theory and wonderful voicings, but I struggle APPLYING them because I've done the same thing for so long.
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Can i ask why? I have hit this problem where for some crazy reason i always play power chords on my LH and then play inversions and extension son my RH.
An example is this;
C major LH- C G C, RH- E G C. I have not been able to break this habit and barely play root position chords on my right. Is this a bad way of playing? The bass player in church once asked me to not play so much bass and i was like what??? Does this method really get in the way of the bass player? I now have to play up the keys so i dont hit low notes but i still play the same way.
Gospel music is at its core chordal music meaning for the most part we're playing some sort of triad or chord in our right hands to correspond with the sung harmony (soprano, alto, tenor) and sing bass note in the left hand. The challenge is when when you're used to playing like this because you've done it your whole life its tough to then change over to playing in a left hand chord, right hand chord style. My father plays this way and at first it was tough for me to fit in because I was playing the same way with a bass note in my left hand and chords in my right. This is where playing jazz has helped me. When you play jazz piano you HAVE to have a strong left hand from a chording standpoint. Starting with playing 1-7,1-3,etc all the way to 4 and 5 note rootless voicings... you're left hand has to be able to provide whatever kind of harmony you want to produce.
I think playing organ helps with this because typically you're playing the bass note with your foot so this frees up your hands to both play chords.
A good way to practice this would be to take a congregational songs in your favorite key.. Eb is good.. and play your normal right chords then add left hand chords to those right hand voicings that follow the basic progression or framework of the song.. I demonstrated this in a post I did on Victory is Mine.
Here is the link: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,50490.0.html (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,50490.0.html)
Hey Rjthakid.. you wanted some application well here you go!!
A look at the chords will show something interesting... although I am playing the vocal harmony with my right hand.. my left hand is playing the framework of the song... next to the chords I'm going to write out the chord that I'm playing in the left hand
Key of Eb
Bb,C,Eb,F-both hands
GDbF/BbEbG victory rootless Eb9
GDbF/AbDbF is rootless Eb9
GDbF,AbDGb/GBbEb mine repeat 2x rootless Eb9, rootless E9... E9 is used as a passing chord to get back to Eb9
GBbDbF/BbEbG victory rootless Eb9
GBbDbE/BbEbG to rootless C7 b9
ACEbG/CEbAb,BbEbG day is rootless F9
AbCDF/BbDF mine rootless Bb9
BbDbEG/BbDbEG - FILLER rootless C7 b9
AbCEbF/CEbAb I Told root Fm7
AbCEbF/BbEbG sa root Fm7
AbCDF/BbDF tan reapeat 2x for get thee behind rootless Bb9
GBbDF,BbDbEG/BbEbGBb victory root Gm7, rootless C7 b9
BbDbEG/CEbAb to rootless C7 b9
AbCEbF/BbEbG day root Fm7
AbCDF/AbCF is rootless Bb9
GCDF/GBbEb mine rootless EbM6/9 w/ no 5th
You see with these voicings the Bass Player has plenty of space to do his thing and you can still use your right hand to harmonize the voices for the choir or congregation but now your left hand is being used to follow the basic framework of the song.
In order to do this though you're left hand has to get re-trained to play these rootless voicing on command. The book I listed at the top of this post will help with that tremendously. It's one of the best books that I have and I have A LOT of books.
Does this make sense...?
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It makes perfect sense, but it'll be tough not playing roots on the left. I am SO used to doing that. If you asked me to play a rootless chord on my right, then i could do it in a snap. But the left is going to be another matter.
So what you mean is that i should play the same inversions i play on my RH on the left. What then do i do with the RH? Play another inversion other than that or focus on playing the melody?
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hey DNat,
This is really cool..
The last time I read your post I was not ready to tackle it.
But now I feel I am ready to apply LH rootless voicings in my playing.
I appreciate your post & would love it if U and many others could start a post dedicated to just that.
U / any1 else could post as many songs as they can containing these, & if possible, explain why they've used the chords they've used.
This is YEP! stuff 8)
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DaNatiMaestro,
Feel free to contribute to this thread I started in the Piano Room.
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,51419.0.html
It's a little something to promote left hand chording.
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DaNatiMaestro,
Feel free to contribute to this thread I started in the Piano Room.
[url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,51419.0.html[/url]
It's a little something to promote left hand chording.
Absolutely bruh.. you got it!!
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Nice 1 kid..
can't w8 2 c how it will develop 8)
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Here are some rootless LH voicings Greg Hannon was sharing:
http://www.giftedplayer.com/media/audio/asoulfulchristmas-leadsheet.pdf
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Jazz rule of thumb...
Tonic (root) Does not have to be played while comping because the bass player will cover that for you. Secondly, the fifth is an unimportant note because it so resembles the root by being a perfect fifth***. If you leave it out of any chord you will never miss it.
The third for the obvious reasons of major and minor sound and then the seventh through 13th.
*** The fifth will have to be played if is is a diminished fifth or an augemented fifth, thus changing it from its original Perfect tonality.
I like to alternate 7ths and thirds on the bottom. I also like to give the chord some room to breathe.
For example:
A foggy Day:
My left hand voicing may look like this for the first line
Fmaj7 - A-C-E (Bass plays F)
A-7b5 , D7b9 - G-C-Eb (Bass plays A), F#-A-Eb (Bass plays D)
G-7 - F-Bb-D (Bass plays G)
C9 - E-Bb-D (Bass plays C)
Notice how I go from having the third as the first note in chord one to having the 7th as the first note in chord two and back again and so on...
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Can i ask why? I have hit this problem where for some crazy reason i always play power chords on my LH and then play inversions and extension son my RH.
An example is this;
C major LH- C G C, RH- E G C. I have not been able to break this habit and barely play root position chords on my right. Is this a bad way of playing? The bass player in church once asked me to not play so much bass and i was like what??? Does this method really get in the way of the bass player? I now have to play up the keys so i dont hit low notes but i still play the same way.
Because you have a bass player to play the bass. Having a bass player, the pianist and organist all playing the bass notes amounts to the same note being played four or five times. Your bass player is there to play bass. Play harmonies in your left hand and use your right hand for adding harmony or embellishments.
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Can i ask why? I have hit this problem where for some crazy reason i always play power chords on my LH and then play inversions and extension son my RH.
An example is this;
C major LH- C G C, RH- E G C. I have not been able to break this habit and barely play root position chords on my right. Is this a bad way of playing? The bass player in church once asked me to not play so much bass and i was like what??? Does this method really get in the way of the bass player? I now have to play up the keys so i dont hit low notes but i still play the same way.
When you play power chord with the left you might as well tell the bass player to pack his stuff up and go home cause you'll be playing his part. The timbre from the pedals / low keyboard notes interfer with the bass players thing, not to mention the fact that the only real reason why we resort to that is becasue we have no other ideas for that hand. Learn to orchestrate properly and your chops will just scream, not to mention the fact that by providing everyone equal space to groove, you do not muddy up the lower nonclementure simply because you do not have any ideas for that hand.
Start looking at the left hand as an instrument on its own... Not a club or guide rule that you use to hammer your version of the chords through to the rest of the rhythm section. Jazz is much more breathable. You have to let people do their job.
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Great piece of information Wolfram..
Perhaps U should shed some more my friend?
I've learnt so much already from that small shed.
U could even give more examples etc ;)
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When you play power chord with the left you might as well tell the bass player to pack his stuff up and go home cause you'll be playing his part. The timbre from the pedals / low keyboard notes interfer with the bass players thing, not to mention the fact that the only real reason why we resort to that is becasue we have no other ideas for that hand. Learn to orchestrate properly and your chops will just scream, not to mention the fact that by providing everyone equal space to groove, you do not muddy up the lower nonclementure simply because you do not have any ideas for that hand.
Start looking at the left hand as an instrument on its own... Not a club or guide rule that you use to hammer your version of the chords through to the rest of the rhythm section. Jazz is much more breathable. You have to let people do their job.
Good stuff man.
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I dont know if anybody else does this (and i dont really do it in public) but when i play at home i try to simultaneously chord and play bass with my left the same as i would chord and play melodies with my right.
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Some quick left hand jazz tips:
1) When you chord with your left hand, try to not start the chord off with the root note. Try to alternate your starting notes between the third and the seventh.
2) You do not have to play every single note in the chord in the left hand.. The root and un-altered fifth are not important. What is important is the third and then the extensions.
3) Less is more... If you can get away with a three note accompany chord in the left hand, do so. It will allow the music to breathe and will allow everyone else room to insert their ideas.
4) Don't forget about rhythmic ideas... the left hand sometimes gets forgotten. Remember that you can put a nice counter rhythm in the left hand that will amplify what the bass and drums are grooving.
5) The right hand is the melody / dexterity hand. You can chord here but, it is used for embellishments and solo work too. Playig everything you know in the first chorus leaves nothing o climb to the second time through. Pace your self. Use space. Remember that music is like a painting, it uses the whole canvas. Listen to what your other musicians are doing and play off of that...
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Some quick left hand jazz tips:
1) When you chord with your left hand, try to not start the chord off with the root note. Try to alternate your starting notes between the third and the seventh.
2) You do not have to play every single note in the chord in the left hand.. The root and un-altered fifth are not important. What is important is the third and then the extensions.
3) Less is more... If you can get away with a three note accompany chord in the left hand, do so. It will allow the music to breathe and will allow everyone else room to insert their ideas.
4) Don't forget about rhythmic ideas... the left hand sometimes gets forgotten. Remember that you can put a nice counter rhythm in the left hand that will amplify what the bass and drums are grooving.
5) The right hand is the melody / dexterity hand. You can chord here but, it is used for embellishments and solo work too. Playig everything you know in the first chorus leaves nothing o climb to the second time through. Pace your self. Use space. Remember that music is like a painting, it uses the whole canvas. Listen to what your other musicians are doing and play off of that...
Again...very good stuff.
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Thanks all im trying to move on anotha level in my playing and im starting to listen to blues and jazz music any tips.... Thanks and God Bless
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I finally got the book and i must say it looks like it is very good. I will be able to say more once i start working out in it! ;)
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Is it implied that there's a Bass player when one is playing jazz? ?/?
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Is it implied that there's a Bass player when one is playing jazz? ?/?
That depends on the jazz that you are playing. If you are playing solo piano, then obviously, no. You may end up playing in a jazz duo with a bass player or perhaps a drummer. If you are playing with a drummer. then you will have to walk the bass line with your left and play everything with your right. Most of what I am talking about involves a bass player. That is is when you have the most freedom to actually play your instrument as a pianist instead of a utility player. I think many times keyboard players get roped into being the string section or brass section or filling in for all the 'sections' that are missing in the original soundbed. What this does is develops your ear to hear fullness all the time. These makes you panic when you hear space. You also get nervous when your hands are both not doing something big together in a coordinated effort. That phat or fat sound is needed in many modern orchestrations that lack the actual bodies to pull of a tune without your help. In jazz, you are actually a player in your own right. The music can have space and air inbetween things and not fall flat on its face. Chords do not have to be stacked eight fingers+ deep to get a good timbre and it seldom takes two keyboard players to pull off a good sound unless that is exactly what you are going for.
Listen to Bill Evans. He was an amazing talent. If you listen to him for even 5 minutes, you will see what I mean about all of this. He is on Youtube...
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Thank you all for your input in this topic. It answers many questions that I had in the back of my head. The main thing is I am so accustomed to playing along with just a drummer. I play two keyboards. And when our conference time comes around, and we have to play with other musicians, I do not fit in unless I am leading. God forbid if we have a strong bass player. SO I often just sit back and let the musician who can leave a pocket for the other instruments play. I thought it was just me, but now I see that there is an intresting concept being discussed here. Keep up the good work and God will keep pouring into you all.
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Hi Kmckinn1,
welcome to LGM :)
Indeed, we all experience the same problems (luckily I've never had to play in a band sitaution with a bassist..*pheeew*..
Here's my main reason for coming here..to post these LH voicing s for jazz piano.
I found them about 6months ago on some site..(good thing I kept it).
here they are:
1-7-9
1-6-9
1-5-9
1-b7-9
b3-b7-11
b3-8-11
5-10-13
5-#9-13
5-8-13
b7-12-15
2-b7-10
2-6-10
Most of these voicings have a very nice jazzy sound to them, but I just don't know how to apply them in any song >:( :'(
Could any jazz gurus help me (us) to apply these in some popular songs..
Even if it's just a few of the chords used in the LH, I will be more than happy coz i want to know how to use them.
or
Are these voicings strictly used when 1 is improvising in the RH? How would 1 improvise if so?
I value all that U teach us here.
Thanx in advance :)
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thanks everyone for da shed of information I really am Glad 2 b apart of your beautiful works Ima learn how to do all of this and more and mayb I can shed a lil of my knowledge
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Hi Kmckinn1,
welcome to LGM :)
Indeed, we all experience the same problems (luckily I've never had to play in a band sitaution with a bassist..*pheeew*..
Here's my main reason for coming here..to post these LH voicing s for jazz piano.
I found them about 6months ago on some site..(good thing I kept it).
here they are:
1-7-9
1-6-9
1-5-9
1-b7-9
b3-b7-11
b3-8-11
5-10-13
5-#9-13
5-8-13
b7-12-15
2-b7-10
2-6-10
Most of these voicings have a very nice jazzy sound to them, but I just don't know how to apply them in any song >:( :'(
Could any jazz gurus help me (us) to apply these in some popular songs..
Even if it's just a few of the chords used in the LH, I will be more than happy coz i want to know how to use them.
or
Are these voicings strictly used when 1 is improvising in the RH? How would 1 improvise if so?
I value all that U teach us here.
Thanx in advance :)
Was this a progression or just a individual groupings of chords?
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Was this a progression or just a individual groupings of chords?
Sorry 4 late reply, I was working all day!
it's an Individual grouping.
thanks everyone for da shed of information I really am Glad 2 b apart of your beautiful works Ima learn how to do all of this and more and mayb I can shed a lil of my knowledge
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By all means man, plz do :) U needn't be afraid. U'll be amazed how much you will learn even from just doing that.
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I have found that a lot of stretches the guys do I cant' do. Can you fellows enlighten a sister on how you get that wide stretch? I can do an octave but after that I have to figure out how I can stack the notes to play those wide chords.
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I have found that a lot of stretches the guys do I cant' do. Can you fellows enlighten a sister on how you get that wide stretch? I can do an octave but after that I have to figure out how I can stack the notes to play those wide chords.
I get where U'r coming from sis..I also found that I had to either use different inversions for the voicings or use 2 hands 2 complete the voicing in some keys.
I once read in some jazz website that the RH stretches wider than the LH by an inch or so.
I believed this because I know I play tenths with relative ease on my RH compared to the LH.
So what can a sista do?
The suggested exercise was that U find a flat surface,
stretch out your LH fingers, trying to form a perfect 180o angle with the thumb and the pinky;
& then stretch the "webs" between the fingers; adding particular focus between the index & thumb.
What I also try to do is use the thick edge on the side of the table to try to form a 180o angle between:
Thumb & pinky & thumb & index finger.
Of course U could stretch your fingers whenever & wherever, U need not have a surface ;)
finally, make a concious effort to first play the 1-9 in the keys of F# & C. Now extend that to 1-10.
Once U can play those, try the 1-5-10 & the 1-6-10.
Now U can go to the 1-7-10 & the 1-b7-10 (i find these 2 very challenging in the key of F#).
practice them all in different inversions & in diff keys..it will pay off in the end ;) :)
The results won't be immediate, but constant practice will help, within 2 years, U should be playing the 1-b7-10 in any key without much strain ;D
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I have found that a lot of stretches the guys do I cant' do. Can you fellows enlighten a sister on how you get that wide stretch? I can do an octave but after that I have to figure out how I can stack the notes to play those wide chords.
I avoid wide open voicings that involve octaves and fifths if I can help it... If in doubt, start with the third or seventh on the bottom and build your chord from there. You can skip the root and fifth altogether and still sell the chordal idea.
Wolf
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Thanks for the tips everybody!!! I will be diligently working on stretching my left hand to do the ever wide chord voicings.