LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Drummers => Topic started by: rtadrummer on February 19, 2008, 11:22:29 PM
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Hey........ i would like to know how many of us gospel drummers get paid for this job. A great musician showed me in Nehemiah that musicians and singers were paid for doing this. As a matter of fact, I think that that happens in some churches today(praise and worship singers do this full time).
This may depend on your church's congregation, the amount of money coming in of course. So if you are being paid please state that along with the size of your congregation and if this is full time or not.
Don't get me wrong,I enjoy what i do but i just want to know how it's done in other churches around the world
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i wish i was gettin compensation...but last i was told (by my own pastor) i wasnt gonna enuff to be paid. imma drummer who has some skills to play keys... go figure...
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A Bit off both... lol.
Most church stuff is volunteer... But when certain branches have Concerts and Call us down to play we get paid....
But its also nice to play and get paid when you don't expect to...
Would be nice to get paid for alot more events seen as we usually have to also transport our equipment from one city the next....
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...do you guys consider yourselves "Levites"? Do you guys/gals know what a "Levite" is and/or did?
...I'm not a paid musician/Worship Leader. At the end of the day, God has never left me without food on the table and has blessed me with new days and evenings. ;)
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...do you guys consider yourselves "Levites"? Do you guys/gals know what a "Levite" is and/or did?
...I'm not a paid musician/Worship Leader. At the end of the day, God has never left me without food on the table and has blessed me with new days and evenings. ;)
I dont know what the first part of your statement has to do with anything...
I'm with you on your second statement though. Musicians need to stop trying to rape the church of their finances. The church does'nt owe us anything. We are volunteers unless they want to hire us. Its optional for you to play. Its optional for them to pay. Plain and simple. The Levite musicians were full time and they recieved part of the tithe because that was the order of things in the Storehouse. That was the law of that land. This is America. We are not Levites. Neither God, or any other well respected biblical figure has instructed us to act as if we were Levites. In a nut shell, musicians need to get jobs and stop trying to use the bible to their monetary advantage.
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I'm with you on your second statement though. Musicians need to stop trying to rape the church of their finances. The church does'nt owe us anything. We are volunteers unless they want to hire us. Its optional for you to play. Its optional for them to pay. Plain and simple. The Levite musicians were full time and they recieved part of the tithe because that was the order of things in the Storehouse. That was the law of that land. This is America. We are not Levites. Neither God, or any other well respected biblical figure has instructed us to act as if we were Levites. In a nut shell, musicians need to get jobs and stop trying to use the bible to their monetary advantage.
Truth!!
I look as this... I have a gift that God gave me free of charge, and I would gladly use it in return for His glory, free of charge.
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Not only do I play for free, I buy the Church the best equipment money can buy. ;)
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I see that everybody left my topic alone!!!
Lol, but naw I don't mind being a blessing to somebody's
church, as long as I am lead to do so. An Elder I've known for a while just started his Church and I felt led to go there and help him out. Knowing that I would not get anything because they are not in position to do so.
My problem is with the people who I don't know from Adam, blowing my phone up wanting me to come to thier functions/or play at thier church without getting anything. Little 10 year Johnnie can play on the set at his church all day long, but he doesn't want that. He wants to go out seeking SKILLED musicians who can help build the music ministry, which can help a church grow, which in turn, brings in income to the Church.
This is Taking Advantage of somebody's gift.
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...do you guys consider yourselves "Levites"? Do you guys/gals know what a "Levite" is and/or did?
...I'm not a paid musician/Worship Leader. At the end of the day, God has never left me without food on the table and has blessed me with new days and evenings. ;)
Agreed.
My Bishop has come to me and said they want to pay the musicians for putting in the time we do, but I am not pressed about it cause God has given me a good job, car, and his love,so I am good. My church is small maybe 20 heads. So being paid is not something I push. I told him when they are ready to do so then they can. If I want to be paid to play I can always find another side gig or move to NY and play in the subway..LOL
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I dont know what the first part of your statement has to do with anything...
I'm with you on your second statement though. Musicians need to stop trying to rape the church of their finances. The church does'nt owe us anything. We are volunteers unless they want to hire us. Its optional for you to play. Its optional for them to pay. Plain and simple. The Levite musicians were full time and they recieved part of the tithe because that was the order of things in the Storehouse. That was the law of that land. This is America. We are not Levites. Neither God, or any other well respected biblical figure has instructed us to act as if we were Levites. In a nut shell, musicians need to get jobs and stop trying to use the bible to their monetary advantage.
i never thought i see the day where i agree with SHEEN....God is sure to come back soon...lol
GodsDruMmr...
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I don't get paid to play...and I would be there if they paid me or not, cuz I love my church and believe in my church. I have no issue with not being paid.....what I do have issue with however, is if they tell you you will be paid, and then nothing comes of it...or if they tell you, they can't ive you anything right now due to finances, then hire a new organ player and a new something else and give them a truckload of money. I play in a band of 5...only 1 gets paid. When we were a band of 4, 3 got paid (myself being the 1 that didn't). But as they left, and more congregation members joined (which is where I came from as well), they were not paid. It seems some churches pay for outside musicians to come in, but when established members step in to play, they get nothing.
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Oh yeah....we have about 400-500 members that come regularly. The role is probably around 800-900+ though....but as you know....people may join and you never see them abain
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I don't get paid to play...and I would be there if they paid me or not, cuz I love my church and believe in my church. I have no issue with not being paid.....what I do have issue with however, is if they tell you you will be paid, and then nothing comes of it...or if they tell you, they can't ive you anything right now due to finances, then hire a new organ player and a new something else and give them a truckload of money. I play in a band of 5...only 1 gets paid. When we were a band of 4, 3 got paid (myself being the 1 that didn't). But as they left, and more congregation members joined (which is where I came from as well), they were not paid. It seems some churches pay for outside musicians to come in, but when established members step in to play, they get nothing.
SO TRUE. Sounds like my home church.
I wonder if those same pastors that refuse to pay musicians, would pastor a church for free???
Right now I'm Strictly volunteer, I'm the only Organist at the church that I play for, so I'm Getting A lot of experience playing in a band. When I get better, I plan to go somewhere where I wll be compensated and fed. I would never play at a church, where I'm not comfortable or am not being fed with the word of God.
But since I'm Not being paid, I dont feel bad not playing at thier evening services, funerals etc. I'm not gonna let them abuse me.
Agreed.
My Bishop has come to me and said they want to pay the musicians for putting in the time we do, but I am not pressed about it cause God has given me a good job, car, and his love,so I am good. My church is small maybe 20 heads. So being paid is not something I push. I told him when they are ready to do so then they can. If I want to be paid to play I can always find another side gig or move to NY and play in the subway..LOL
A bishop, with only 20 members???? ?/?
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SO TRUE. Sounds like my home church.
I wonder if those same pastors that refuse to pay musicians, would pastor a church for free???
Right now I'm Strictly volunteer, I'm the only Organist at the church that I play for, so I'm Getting A lot of experience playing in a band. When I get better, I plan to go somewhere where I wll be compensated and fed. I would never play at a church, where I'm not comfortable or am not being fed with the word of God.
But since I'm Not being paid, I dont feel bad not playing at thier evening services, funerals etc. I'm not gonna let them abuse me.
A bishop, with only 20 members???? ?/?
It was more than that but now it's back to that size. He oversees other churches as well.
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This is from a response I did in this forum about 3 years ago.
"I participate in a few music ministries in the Los Angeles area. As an aside, I noticed that it is not unusual for the drummer to be paid less than the other musicians. I don't understand why.
However, I have also noticed that churches (pastors, trustees, etc) will sometimes use and abuse the talent God has placed under their direction. They have no problem talking up the upcoming church banquet at the beautiful hotel downtown where they are charging $50.00 per plate and then ask you to bring a band to entertain them for no money (sorry we don't have a budget for music) and for NO FOOD. Even heathens will feed you lol.
God uses people to run his Churches. Sometimes, you have to stand up to those people and insist that they do right. I often volunteer to play for various churches and choirs. However, whether I play for free is my decision. I do resent when I get the "God gave u a gift" speech. True I have been blessed with a gift, but it is unspiritual to always expect me to use that gift and to renege on our financial arramngement.
Think about it.... Jesus was carpenter...that is how he made a living before he started his other work for the Father. I am pretty sure that when he and Jospeh were making those tables and chairs and building those houses that they got paid. They had to eat too didn't they? They had to support Mary and the other children, they had to give at the synagogue, they had to pay taxes. they had to buy animals for sacrifices, clothes, pay to travel, buy raw materials to work their craft. All of that required money. The Bible says that " money answers all things." (Ecclesiastes 10:19)
None of us should be shamed into not getting paid when the funds are really in the budget."
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...I'm not a paid musician/Worship Leader. At the end of the day, God has never left me without food on the table and has blessed me with new days and evenings. ;)
There is nothing wrong with this because you are being led. If the Spirit tells you to be at a Church where there is not enough money to pay the drummer, then by all means do so! Thats your obligation. Just like you were lead to play where you are at, then these Pastors should pray and let the Musicans be led to them, instead of them going out looking for the good ones that they can drag around for free.
The Levite musicians were full time and they recieved part of the tithe because that was the order of things in the Storehouse. That was the law of that land. This is America.
Tithing was apart of that land too......... So does that mean that we shouldn't tithe either?
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However, I have also noticed that churches (pastors, trustees, etc) will sometimes use and abuse the talent God has placed under their direction. They have no problem talking up the upcoming church banquet at the beautiful hotel downtown where they are charging $50.00 per plate and then ask you to bring a band to entertain them for no money (sorry we don't have a budget for music) and for NO FOOD. Even heathens will feed you lol.
That reminds me, Some church folks were having an event that they wanted my group to sing at. We have no problem ministering for free, but they wanted us to pay $65 for a ticket. I've never heard of musicians paying to perform ?/? ?/? ?/?
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This is from a response I did in this forum about 3 years ago.
"I participate in a few music ministries in the Los Angeles area. As an aside, I noticed that it is not unusual for the drummer to be paid less than the other musicians. I don't understand why.
I couldn't agree with you more on all you said, and "Whether you play for free or not, REALLY IS up to your discretion"
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Tithing was apart of that land too......... So does that mean that we shouldn't tithe either?
You can do whatever you want. The bible does'nt tell you to tithe. Your Pastor does. ;)
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You can do whatever you want. The bible does'nt tell you to tithe. Your Pastor does. ;)
LOL, Thats because the Pastor was reading Malachi 3:10.
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LOL, Thats because the Pastor was reading Malachi 3:10.
I'll say it again. That passage of scripture was making reference to the Leviticle Law. A certain tribe that Moses led. Everyone wasnt commanded to pay tithes. The Storehouse was the only place that they brought tithes to. The Storehouse was an actual place. No where in the bible does it say the Storehouse is your local church.
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Oh lawd...Back to the tithes discussion >:( >:( >:(
Anybody want popcorn :D :D :D
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Who were the 10 Commandments written for? Surely not us Gentiles, right?
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Man Im just trying to shed light on yall. Yall can do whatever yall want. I just think its hillarious that tithing was a law for Jews and since the Leviticle Law doesnt exist anymore, Jews dont even pay tithes in this day :D ...but guess what we ol' American Christians do? We take on their retired laws and customs by changing the meaning of a tithe and who it belongs to. :D
I guess this is how I can afford a Beech Custom, oh wait. No. No no no no no. A Beech Custom is considered a blessing right? You mean to tell me I'm still being blessed? :D
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Man Im just trying to shed light on yall. Yall can do whatever yall want. I just think its hillarious that tithing was a law for Jews and since the Leviticle Law doesnt exist anymore, Jews dont even pay tithes in this day :D ...but guess what we ol' American Christians do? We take on their retired laws and customs by changing the meaning of a tithe and who it belongs to. :D
I guess this is how I can afford a Beech Custom, oh wait. No. No no no no no. A Beech Custom is considered a blessing right? You mean to tell me I'm still being blessed? :D
I thought this was caused by going to work and making money and saving... ;D
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So what do we make out of my Tithe paying Sonor Delites and Meinl Byzance Cymbals? ;D ;D ;D
See, I didn't just read Verse 10 of Malachi chapter 3. I also read verse 8,
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings."
Will a MAN. doesn't say will a Levite. So since I read that, I decided to APPLY that to myself.
Then, I continued reading and came across verse 10. But what I like is the second part of verse 10:
"...and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
I definitely am willing to take 10% of my earnings AND give my offering so I can see that portion of scripture Manifested in my life.
Now, as you said my brother, Everyone can do what they want. 8)
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I'll say it again. That passage of scripture was making reference to the Leviticle Law. A certain tribe that Moses led. Everyone wasnt commanded to pay tithes. The Storehouse was the only place that they brought tithes to. The Storehouse was an actual place. No where in the bible does it say the Storehouse is your local church.
d-o-d, you are a piece of work man. But let me ask you this.
Why is it that because our gift happens to be in the church, that we should be doing it for free. Some people are gifted to be barbers, mechanics, comedians, FAMOUS GOSPEL SINGERS, actors, and all the above are paid well........... Now why should the musicians be left out? My barber doesn't give me free haircuts, and my mechanic doesn't fix my brakes then tell me its free. And I know Steve Harvey didn't host the BET Celebration of Gospel for free! If you could explain this to me, I would feel so much better about the whole situation.
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I thought this was caused by going to work and making money and saving... ;D
Yeah, that too. But wait. No no no no. How is it that God blessed me to maintain my employment status as "employed," but yet I dont give his local pastors 10%? ;D
d-o-d, you are a piece of work man. But let me ask you this.
Why is it that because our gift happens to be in the church, that we should be doing it for free. Some people are gifted to be barbers, mechanics, comedians, FAMOUS GOSPEL SINGERS, actors, and all the above are paid well........... Now why should the musicians be left out? My barber doesn't give me free haircuts, and my mechanic doesn't fix my brakes then tell me its free. And I know Steve Harvey didn't host the BET Celebration of Gospel for free! If you could explain this to me, I would feel so much better about the whole situation.
Ok lil homie. If you go back and read my first post, I explained that no one owes you money for a service that you will do for free. Simple. You have every right to charge anyone for your services but they have just as much right to make the decision not to pay you. You are not obligated by any God given or biblical law to play the drums in church. You make that choice.
So what do we make out of my Tithe paying Sonor Delites and Meinl Byzance Cymbals? ;D ;D ;D
See, I didn't just read Verse 10 of Malachi chapter 3. I also read verse 8,
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings."
Will a MAN. doesn't say will a Levite. So since I read that, I decided to APPLY that to myself.
Then, I continued reading and came across verse 10. But what I like is the second part of verse 10:
"...and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
I definitely am willing to take 10% of my earnings AND give my offering so I can see that portion of scripture Manifested in my life.
Now, as you said my brother, Everyone can do what they want. 8)
Again, that passage of scripture was in reference to MEN under the Law of Moses. And still, you can do whatever you want. :) 8)
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Who were the 10 Commandments written for? Surely not us Gentiles, right?
True, technically, God gave those commandments to the Children of Israel, not the Egyptians, Canaanites, or any of the other -ites.
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Yeah, that too. But wait. No no no no. How is it that God blessed me to maintain my employment status as "employed," but yet I dont give his local pastors 10%? ;D
lol, The members of 3-6 Mafia are employed too, and they have millions of dollars, and I doubt they even go to church, let alone give them 10% of thier millions..........................
But I see where you are coming from though. If I ever need a lawyer man I'm callin you first!
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True, technically, God gave those commandments to the Children of Israel, not the Egyptians, Canaanites, or any of the other -ites.
That is entirely true.
You cant turn a National Law into a Global Law! There were Jewish laws and there were laws that governed the rest of the Nations. Sometimes they shared the same laws but tithing was definately not one of them. That was strictly for the Levites.
lol, The members of 3-6 Mafia are employed too, and they have millions of dollars, and I doubt they even go to church, let alone give them 10% of thier millions..........................
But I see where you are coming from though. If I ever need a lawyer man I'm callin you first!
LOL! Holla atcha boi! :D
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I play for my church for free....why?....because it's my church and i'm there to serve.......If I get paid that's cool if I don't then that's cool too.......But it's different if I get called for a gig.....then I expect something......Like last November I was invited to play for a national convention and it was in Texas...I ain't going to pay for my flight or my room.....they had to pay that and then some extra for the time.....or even gigs around town that don't have nothing to do with my church.....I don't do secular gigs and never will so every gig I do has something to do with God.....it has worked out for me....God has blessed me to play in some places I never thought I would play in....so God's promises in my life is enough for me.......All I can do is be faithful to God and what ever God has in store for me will come to pass.....isn't that awesome?....Praise God for that....GB
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I play for my church for free....why?....because it's my church and i'm there to serve.......If I get paid that's cool if I don't then that's cool too.......But it's different if I get called for a gig.....then I expect something......Like last November I was invited to play for a national convention and it was in Texas...I ain't going to pay for my flight or my room.....they had to pay that and then some extra for the time.....or even gigs around town that don't have nothing to do with my church.....I don't do secular gigs and never will so every gig I do has something to do with God.....it has worked out for me....God has blessed me to play in some places I never thought I would play in....so God's promises in my life is enough for me.......All I can do is be faithful to God and what ever God has in store for me will come to pass.....isn't that awesome?....Praise God for that....GB
Thats real cool man. I respect that. Do what works for you. Whats meant for you is comin...keep killin the drums homie!
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Aye Kev, how do you support your church financially if not with money?
Your points on tithing is new to me so I'm having trouble understanding it.
You have definitely sparked my interest & i'm researching & trying to get up on my knowledge of tithing.
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Thats real cool man. I respect that. Do what works for you. Whats meant for you is comin...keep killin the drums homie!
Thanks man.......you keep inspiring.....you have def. inpired me....keep doing your thing.....GB
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Aye Kev, how do you support your church financially if not with money?
Your points on tithing is new to me so I'm having trouble understanding it.
You have definitely sparked my interest & i'm researching & trying to get up on my knowledge of tithing.
I do what the bible tells me to do. I give cheerfully from the heart and without grudge. My giving is sometimes sporadic. Sometimes its planned. Sometimes its to a church. Sometimes its to the less fortunate right on the street. Sometimes its money. Sometimes its in gifts. Sometimes its in my time. But its never in the manner of a ritual, in the same amount, in the same form, to the same place, every week.
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I do what the bible tells me to do. I give cheerfully from the heart and without grudge. My giving is sometimes sporadic. Sometimes its planned. Sometimes its to a church. Sometimes its to the less fortunate right on the street. Sometimes its money. Sometimes its in gifts. Sometimes its in my time. But its never in the manner of a ritual, in the same amount, in the same form, to the same place, every week.
I agree....I like the way you think.....sick 8)
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i guess im a bad guy cuz i do recieve a salary at the church i play at. they offered me the position and i accepted...there i go trying 2 be a professional musician. but im required 2 b there 4 rehersals everyday except monday, wendsday and saturday and i have 2 services on sunday morning.
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i guess im a bad guy cuz i do recieve a salary at the church i play at. they offered me the position and i accepted...there i go trying 2 be a professional musician. but im required 2 b there 4 rehersals everyday except monday, wendsday and saturday and i have 2 services on sunday morning.
Praise God for that bruh! You ain't a bad guy. You're appreciated for your ministry. You're blessed to recieve a lil something.
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This type of discussion always sparks another question for me. Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid? Where do you draw the line? How can you pay some and not all that are offering their gifts to the church?
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This type of discussion always sparks another question for me. Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid? Where do you draw the line? How can you pay some and not all that are offering their gifts to the church?
Good question.
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This type of discussion always sparks another question for me. Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid? Where do you draw the line? How can you pay some and not all that are offering their gifts to the church?
Depends on how much time they put into what they do. I dont think most of those people you listed, spend hours each week practicing.
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Depends on how much time they put into what they do. I dont think most of those people you listed, spend hours each week practicing.
Most definitely the choir and praise spend nearly as much time rehearsing as the musicians. If it's not time it's most definitely energy. I can't think of a church right now that's paying their praise team and their choir members. Same thing goes for the sound ministry. They're there usually as much as the band a singers are.
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Most definitely the choir and praise spend nearly as much time rehearsing as the musicians. If it's not time it's most definitely energy. I can't think of a church right now that's paying their praise team and their choir members. Same thing goes for the sound ministry. They're there usually as much as the band a singers are.
But look at the Expenses we have. We musicians Spend THOUSANDS of dollars on instruments, Spend hours each week OUTSIDE of church preparing to learn new songs and practicing old ones. I dont think ushers go home and practice handing out programs and opening doors. I dont think (most) camera operators spend 4 years going to school to to serve in the church (most musicians dont either)
But most importantly, None of those people do that as thier profession or occupation. We got rent to pay and families to feed. You always hear them condeming you for playing secular music, but then they dont wanna pay you. Like I said b4, if pastors get paid, so should thier musicians
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You can always tell when people come in a thread posting their comments without reading what was already said! >:(
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But look at the Expenses we have. We musicians Spend THOUSANDS of dollars on instruments, Spend hours each week OUTSIDE of church preparing to learn new songs and practicing old ones. I dont think ushers go home and practice handing out programs and opening doors. I dont think (most) camera operators spend 4 years going to school to to serve in the church (most musicians dont either)
But most importantly, None of those people do that as thier profession or occupation. We got rent to pay and families to feed. You always hear them condeming you for playing secular music, but then they dont wanna pay you. Like I said b4, if pastors get paid, so should thier musicians
Under13, I like your thinking man. I agree with everything you said. You basically took the words out of my mouth. Most people on the praise team either 1, do it as a hobby and don't like singing all that much, or 2, decided that they liked singing on Saturday and wanted to joined the Praise team on Sunday. Or 3, if they have been singing all thier lives then I'm sure they are getting paid by somebody somewhere to sing something! Most of us have been playing drums all our lives and we take this very seriously. It is not just a hobby, or something to do while we are at church. Its much deeper than that.
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But look at the Expenses we have. We musicians Spend THOUSANDS of dollars on instruments, Spend hours each week OUTSIDE of church preparing to learn new songs and practicing old ones. I dont think ushers go home and practice handing out programs and opening doors. I dont think (most) camera operators spend 4 years going to school to to serve in the church (most musicians dont either)
But most importantly, None of those people do that as thier profession or occupation. We got rent to pay and families to feed. You always hear them condeming you for playing secular music, but then they dont wanna pay you. Like I said b4, if pastors get paid, so should thier musicians
I've been playing drums for almost twenty years now and I've never been in a paying situation at a church. I wouldn't be mad if I was passed a couple of dollars, but it doesn't matter at all because I enjoy serving. I'm currently going to school for audio and I'll be graduating next month. Now I don't feel led to be a part of the sound ministry for free because my skill is something I've invested in. The price for my education is compensation in this area, so I guess I understand where you're coming from as well. I guess the best thing to do is use Godly wisdom in these types of situations.
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Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid?
...here's an answer for you. (I'm sure Sheen will have his point of view.lol)
1 Chronicles 23
The Divisions of the Levites
1. So when David was old and full of days, he made his son Solomon king over Israel.
2. And he gathered together all the leaders of Israel, with the priests and the Levites.
3. Now the Levites were numbered from the age of thirty years and above; and the number of individual males was thirty-eight thousand.
4. Of these, twenty-four thousand were to look after the work of the house of the LORD, six thousand were officers and judges,
5. four thousand were gatekeepers, and four thousand praised the LORD with musical instruments, “which I made,” said David, “for giving praise.”
2 Chronicles 5
12 and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets—
...some of you guys aren't going to like this answer but here it goes: Not all the Levites of the church were "Musicians or Singers" as you can read for yourselves above. Some were in charge of the "care and maintance" of the Temple.
...I asked on my first part of this thread if you all thought of yourselves as Levites. Here's the answer to many of you guys/gals question. If you do, you will have to understand that the Levites a. "Studied Music from the book of Psalms (written by King David) and played out of the book of PSalms" b. Were in charge of Praise & Worship in the "Temple" c. They "all" got payed/How else were they going to purchase "white linen clothing"? d. They were "Full Time" at the church. In other words, "they were Ministers of Music." Their Lifestyle was Worship. They didn't go out and play with the hottest Secular Jewish Reggae Artist. lol
...so, are we worthy of making "our" money honestly from the church? Is our Lifestyle a life of a True Worshipper?
...some of us are living the lifestyle of a True Worshipper and yet we see that we are getting payed by seeing Lives come to Christ, Families that were destroyed come together and the Sun go up and down each day. Some of us are sent on special assignments to play at so and so's church or Christian concert with minimal pay being $50 and God rewards us with $2,000 and many restored Lives after it. ;)
...my advice to all of you is this:
Matthew 6:33 (New King James Version)
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
...these are my beliefs and as of today, I'm still seeing God bless my Life and Family in a great way. You guys do whatever you want. ;) At the end of the day, I know what God wants from "me" and know where His Holy Spirit is guiding "me." I know one thing, my eyes are set on God and not the cash. ;)
...by the way, I'm not a Jewish Levite but I am a Levite in the Spirit and I have a job to do. I can only speak for "me".
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...as for the "Tithing Thing"....
...again, if you guys don't want to do it, then don't. No one is making you. I answer to the Lord and not to my Pastor... ;)
Malachi 3:10
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings.
9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.
10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the LORD of hosts,
“ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.
11 “ And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
Says the LORD of hosts;
12 And all nations will call you blessed,
For you will be a delightful land,”
Says the LORD of hosts.
...God is telling "me" that He will bless me in such a way that there will not be room enough to receive it and that "everyone" will call me blessed!?
...I think that "I'm" not going to steal from God and give "Him", not the "Pastors", 10% of "my" earnings. The "Pastors" are all accountable for what they do with "His/churches" money. "I" think I'm accountable for "giving" what belongs to "Him because I don't want to be cursed or be called a "thief" on Judgement Day. So I'll do it to be on the "Safe" side. LOL
...again, you guys do what you want. 8)
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Yeah, I'm with you on the tithes JFunky. When I slipped on paying tithes in one part of my life, my money was getting drained. My car needed to get fixed, extra charges on bills, just little stuff that was slowly taking my money. But when my tithing got back on track, my finances got back on track. It's nothing to play with. But like you said, I don't care what anybody else does with thier money, I just know I'm supposed to do. because I've experienced firsthand what happens when you don't tithe, and what happens when you do.
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...as for the "Tithing Thing"....
...again, if you guys don't want to do it, then don't. No one is making you. I answer to the Lord and not to my Pastor... ;)
Malachi 3:10
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings.
9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.
10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the LORD of hosts,
“ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.
11 “ And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
Says the LORD of hosts;
12 And all nations will call you blessed,
For you will be a delightful land,”
Says the LORD of hosts.
...God is telling "me" that He will bless me in such a way that there will not be room enough to receive it and that "everyone" will call me blessed!?
...I think that "I'm" not going to steal from God and give "Him", not the "Pastors", 10% of "my" earnings. The "Pastors" are all accountable for what they do with "His/churches" money. "I" think I'm accountable for "giving" what belongs to "Him because I don't want to be cursed or be called a "thief" on Judgement Day. So I'll do it to be on the "Safe" side. LOL
...again, you guys do what you want. 8)
Thats what I said! 8)
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Thats what I said! 8)
...great "unpayed, tithing minds" think alike. ;D At least I know we're on the same page or in this case, different pages. LOL
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Whatever dudes.
Number one. Like you said JFunky. All the Levite musicians got paid.
So if your Pastor considers himself a Levite, then he should pay and if the musician is considered a Levite, then he/she should get paid. No question about it. The problem is this. You guys think youre Jewish. You dont have the same promises that Jews had. Gentiles were not told to tithe and they were not promised to be paid musicians in church. Look at this...
9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.
The bible is clear. Very clear. This was in reference to the Jewish Nation. But do what you like. Its all in your head. :D
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"The whole nation of you is cursed".................
So this must be why in some families, The grandparents never had money, the parents never had money, thier kids never had money, and the whole generation is cursed financially because nobody paid tithes... Makes plenty sense to me!!
But back to the topic...JFunk said it best, "I'd rather just play it safe........."
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I bet you guys cant wait to see those streets of gold too huh? :D LOL!
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***WARNING: GENUINE TITHE QUESTIONS FOLLOW***
Question 1: What happens if the tithes you withhold affect your own family?
I have family in ministry (Dad is a pastor, cousin is a Dean at one of our church schools, Uncle is a teacher at another school, Aunties in administrative positions etc) so I'm struggling with this one.
Question 2: What are the repercussions if you took the 10% of your income, rather than giving it as tithe, you put it into specific ministries of your local church?
E.g. Rather than paying tithe to a church conference where I don't know what's going on, I would rather put that money into my local church youth, sound & audio and children's departments.
Am I even allowed to have that sort of influence on my tithe?
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***WARNING: GENUINE TITHE QUESTIONS FOLLOW***
Question 1: What happens if the tithes you withhold affect your own family?
I have family in ministry (Dad is a pastor, cousin is a Dean at one of our church schools, Uncle is a teacher at another school, Aunties in administrative positions etc) so I'm struggling with this one.
Question 2: What are the repercussions if you took the 10% of your income, rather than giving it as tithe, you put it into specific ministries of your local church?
E.g. Rather than paying tithe to a church conference where I don't know what's going on, I would rather put that money into my local church youth, sound & audio and children's departments.
Am I even allowed to have that sort of influence on my tithe?
First you have to deal with the fact that TITHES are not money. Look up the biblical definition of a tithe. Who paid it. Who recieved it.
This is Deut 14:22-29 You will never hear this being preached in a church!
22(A) "You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there,(B) you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil,(C) and the firstborn of your herd and flock,(D) that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because(E) the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And(F) you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27And you shall not neglect(G) the Levite who is within your towns, for(H) he has no portion or inheritance with you.
As you can see, tithes is not money. It was never money. How can you sell money for money! :D :D :D
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Wow. :o
This thread has been most entertaining here at work.
Keep it coming guys :-*
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First you have to deal with the fact that TITHES are not money. Look up the biblical definition of a tithe. Who paid it. Who recieved it.
This is Deut 14:22-29 You will never hear this being preached in a church!
22(A) "You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there,(B) you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil,(C) and the firstborn of your herd and flock,(D) that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because(E) the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And(F) you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27And you shall not neglect(G) the Levite who is within your towns, for(H) he has no portion or inheritance with you.
As you can see, tithes is not money. It was never money. How can you sell money for money! :D :D :D
Hmmm!!! Imma have to research that. Intersting :-\
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Extremely interesting. I'm going to seek some wisdom (a second opinion LOL) on this one.
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...hey, like I've stated before....I'm going to tithe "just to play it safe" aaaaaaand I may not be getting payed with earth's money and treasures but what's going on in my life and church is more rewarding than any dollar and Euro will ever be worth. LOL At any rate, I have a responsibility that has been placed upon my life and the rewards and treasures are not here on earth but rather in Heaven. I hope to walk down the "street" of gold one day when it's all said and done. ;)
...I'm not a physical Jew but in the Spirit....I am one of His Chosen People. My Pastor gets Salary and I don't......you know what? ..... I don't lose any sleep over it. God gave me a good job and the money is good along with the benefits. Through that blessing God allowed me to buy an '07 Camry. God gave me a beautiful wife and beautiful little worshipping daughter along with a new house and good health. (...and a small gut.lol) I have "no debt" because God has taught me to administer the money I earn wisely. All I pay is my regular Living bills. I'm 27 going on 28 in May. God allowed me to see the sunlight today and is allowing me to read this thread with my eyes and use my fingers to type and breathe by my own without the help of a machine. He even blessed me with a $25 dollar gift card to Chilli's Restaurant today so that "I" could eat with my family. Praise God! lol
...Yep. God has definetly kept the blessings coming and overflowing. All of the Glory in "my" life and what "I" do belongs to God.
...at the end of the day, God gives me 90% of what I earn to keep for myself. He only asks for 10%. "I" think "I" would be pretty selfish to keep the full 100% knowing that there are Missionaries that are out doing God's work in jungles and Third World countries needing supplies and help. I know where the tithing in "my" church goes. In my church, we see where the money goes and at the end of each year we have a Church Report that has everything on it like what was spent and where it went just for those that like to look for any misuse of the churches money. They fail each year. lol God is great.
...as for me and my house: we will continue to seek the Lords blessings. If he says that He will overflow my life with blessings (Spiritual blessings or Money or both) and I will be called blessed by the Nations.....then "I" would be dumb not to partake on that promise.
...once again.....these are "my" beliefs and what "I've" witnessed in "my" life. Again, you guys do what you want and believe what you want. Nowhere in my previous posts did "I" state that you have to believe what "I" believe. It's your life and your choice. Don't do anything you don't want to do. Be blessed and stay blessed.
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Whatever dudes.
Number one. Like you said JFunky. All the Levite musicians got paid.
So if your Pastor considers himself a Levite, then he should pay and if the musician is considered a Levite, then he/she should get paid. No question about it.
...all Levites got payed so it wasn't just the musician Levites. (Gatekeepers, Maintanance, Musicians, Singers etc.) A Pastor is not a Levite though.....A Pastor is a Priest. So to answer Sugarbears question about the Choir and Sound Techs and all of that.......according to what the word says about the Levites "and" if you guys are considering yourselves to be Levites then the answer is this..........it's ALL or NONE!!!
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...all Levites got payed so it wasn't just the musician Levites. (Gatekeepers, Maintanance, Musicians, Singers etc.) A Pastor is not a Levite though.....A Pastor is a Priest. So to answer Sugarbears question about the Choir and Sound Techs and all of that.......according to what the word says about the Levites "and" if you guys are considering yourselves to be Levites then the answer is this..........it's ALL or NONE!!!
that's what seemed logical to me. But as you may know logic isn't always right when it comes to understanding the things of God. I feel that when I accepted Christ as my Saviour I was grafted into the vine, partaking of the blessings of his chosen people and becoming one of his chosen. So, in all things, I expect a "chosen people's" blessing when I apply the principles to receive.
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...all Levites got payed so it wasn't just the musician Levites. (Gatekeepers, Maintanance, Musicians, Singers etc.) A Pastor is not a Levite though.....A Pastor is a Priest. So to answer Sugarbears question about the Choir and Sound Techs and all of that.......according to what the word says about the Levites "and" if you guys are considering yourselves to be Levites then the answer is this..........it's ALL or NONE!!!
Yes indeed! That is very true. All or None!
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...by the way, Priests (Pastors) always got payed even before the Levites entered the Temple. This to once again clarify the point that a Pastor is not a Levite. ;)
...I disagree with the fact that the organists or pianists get payed and the drummers get left out. What's that all about? That ain't right at all.
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Read Romans chapter 4 especially verse 16. In this chapter Paul states that through faith Abraham, who was the first Jew, is the father of the circumcised (Jew) and the uncircumcised (gentile). This tells me that every word and every promise (which includes Malachi 3:10) applies to all of us! Not only those of the biological seed of Abraham, but also those of the faith of Abraham. However, people seem to take God's promises and make a law out of it i.e. if you don't tithe God will curse you etc. By doing this we put ourselves back under the law that Jesus died to free us from.
You grab hold of God's promises through faith- believing in your heart that God will do what he said he would- not in fear of punishment for breaking a law!!
BTW i do agree with Sheen about tithes not having to be money or a set amount of anything per/month/week... Give what you want when you want because God looks at the heart (motives) not at the gift.
God bless!
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I've been playing drums for almost twenty years now and I've never been in a paying situation at a church. I wouldn't be mad if I was passed a couple of dollars, but it doesn't matter at all because I enjoy serving. I'm currently going to school for audio and I'll be graduating next month. Now I don't feel led to be a part of the sound ministry for free because my skill is something I've invested in. The price for my education is compensation in this area, so I guess I understand where you're coming from as well. I guess the best thing to do is use Godly wisdom in these types of situations.
Sound is considered a professional position and if you search the right job markets you can do that and get paid however you need to bring some wok experience to the table from live concert venues etc - sound reinforcement, wiring, recording, monitor mixes etc. From every project you want to show an ROI (return on investment) value. You first have to value your self, your gift, and your education.
I also suggest as sound goes that you look into the professional trade organizations and conferences that exist in he worship arena. PM me for links.
But same for drummers, musicians, even singers. Show your value. There churches that pay there section leaders but not he rest of the choir. They consider leadership necessary... and prepared leadership a must. Thing is most of us won't make this a full-time thing. We want walk like a real Minister of Music should (which is everyone in the music ministry dept... or should be). There is a Pastors and Musicians Guild conference every year at Hampton University (mostly keys and organist) that emphasizes reading music, being professional, salaries/compensation & benefits.... Their members have published books on how it should be done, decent and in order. Apply this to your instrument, your dept team, your church. Show yourself to be of value to your local church... then pray and move on if that is not the place for you. Most urban churches suffer from not knowing how to properly govern these gifts of God. They regulate them to talents which disrespects the purpose and potential of the vessel thereby lessoning the local body.
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Sound is considered a professional position and if you search the right job markets you can do that and get paid however you need to bring some wok experience to the table from live concert venues etc - sound reinforcement, wiring, recording, monitor mixes etc. From every project you want to show an ROI (return on investment) value. You first have to value your self, your gift, and your education.
I also suggest as sound goes that you look into the professional trade organizations and conferences that exist in he worship arena. PM me for links.
But same for drummers, musicians, even singers. Show your value. There churches that pay there section leaders but not he rest of the choir. They consider leadership necessary... and prepared leadership a must. Thing is most of us won't make this a full-time thing. We want walk like a real Minister of Music should (which is everyone in the music ministry dept... or should be). There is a Pastors and Musicians Guild conference every year at Hampton University (mostly keys and organist) that emphasizes reading music, being professional, salaries/compensation & benefits.... Their members have published books on how it should be done, decent and in order. Apply this to your instrument, your dept team, your church. Show yourself to be of value to your local church... then pray and move on if that is not the place for you. Most urban churches suffer from not knowing how to properly govern these gifts of God. They regulate them to talents which disrespects the purpose and potential of the vessel thereby lessoning the local body.
Teach...
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Read Romans chapter 4 especially verse 16. In this chapter Paul states that through faith Abraham, who was the first Jew, is the father of the circumcised (Jew) and the uncircumcised (gentile). This tells me that every word and every promise (which includes Malachi 3:10) applies to all of us! Not only those of the biological seed of Abraham, but also those of the faith of Abraham. However, people seem to take God's promises and make a law out of it i.e. if you don't tithe God will curse you etc. By doing this we put ourselves back under the law that Jesus died to free us from.
You grab hold of God's promises through faith- believing in your heart that God will do what he said he would- not in fear of punishment for breaking a law!!
BTW i do agree with Sheen about tithes not having to be money or a set amount of anything per/month/week... Give what you want when you want because God looks at the heart (motives) not at the gift.
God bless!
The amount of a tithe is clearly stated as a tenth of all your increase. That amount is stated in the word. A tithe in biblical times was anything of perceived value attained above what one already owned. These modern times translate into 10% of your gross income as we do not operate on the barter system.
Your offering is your choice and should be representative of your best ability to give and does not have a set value. I was taught an try to maintain a 10% offering but that is according to what I have be taught and tried and belived on (30/70 or 10 tithe/10 offering/10 savings - me/70 household living expenses rule that has even be exercised in todays financial circles).
The Bible does give account in the example of Caine that it should not be anything less than your best. Both tithe and offering are Biblical Judeo-Christian requirements.
Let's separate doctrine from fact folks and keep it clean.
The first church members sold their excess in order that all would have all things in common. This is not the mindset of our church society so now we have a business structure within the church administrative functionality that must be dealt with.
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Hmm, interesting.:-X Well, I'm a paid musician!
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Hmm, interesting.:-X Well, I'm a paid musician!
Show off! So am I! ;D
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Hmm, interesting.:-X Well, I'm a paid musician!
So what...wait, I'm sorry. What's your point? :-\
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...any "broke" musicians??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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...any "broke" musicians??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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...any "broke" musicians??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
MMMMEEEEEEE!!! :'(
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...any "broke" musicians??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I don't get paid by the church, but a brother aint starving either..lol
We are still discussing tithes....again?
I tithe it's just something I do. If another man feels he doesn't have to tithe, that's on him I'm not going to knock him. I do know that personally for me when I don't pay my tithes, that's when money starts getting messed up. Maybe I am part Jewish...LOL. I wont knock another dude for not paying his though. If you don't believe you should...Why do it?
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WOW, drummer's cuttin' it up over something OTHER than "who's a better drummer" ( ::))?
I'm impressed. ;) 8)
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WOW, drummer's cuttin' it up over something OTHER than "who's a better drummer" ( ::))?
I'm impressed. ;) 8)
We are training. Getting prepared to enter the Lounge. 8)
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MMMMEEEEEEE!!! :'(
Well then stop buying top of the line Sonor Drums and get you a nice DDrum Dominion Ash Pocket! :o :o :D
WOW, drummer's cuttin' it up over something OTHER than "who's a better drummer" ( ::))?
I'm impressed. ;) 8)
Go make a return on that horrible tux and please close the door behind you...thankyou sir. ;) 8)
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Well then stop buying top of the line Sonor Drums and get you a nice DDrum Dominion Ash Pocket! :o :o :D
;D ;D ;D No Kidding huh? I dont know, I think I hear a PDP kit with a Zebra throne calling my name.
Go make a return on that horrible tux and please close the door behind you...thankyou sir. ;) 8)
:o :o :o MASSIVE! :o :o :o
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Well then stop buying top of the line Sonor Drums and get you a nice DDrum Dominion Ash Pocket! :o :o :D
Go make a return on that horrible tux and please close the door behind you...thankyou sir. ;) 8)
WoW...Kev is crazy!!LOL
Keep the gloves above the waist...Above.LOL
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So much for cuttin' it up over tithes.... LOL! :D :D :D
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We are training. Getting prepared to enter the Lounge. 8)
Funny. Very funny. :D
Go make a return on that horrible tux and please close the door behind you...thankyou sir. ;) 8)
Try again. ::)
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Funny. Very funny. :D
Try again. ::)
Look man. If you have some valuable knowledge that is relevant to any thread in the drum room, please share it. Seems like all you do is come in here with a load of insults and negativity. Did someone tell you we were cooking in here? You logged in and there was no food and now youre mad? Get a life man, we're tying to be productive in here.
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Look man. If you have some valubable knowledge that is relevant to any thread in the drum room, please share it. Seems like all you do is come in here with a load of insults and negativity. Did someone tell you we were cooking in here? You logged in and there was no food and now youre mad? Get a life man, we're tying to be productive in here.
WOW!!!!!
*Runs out of thread before the calvary arrives*
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Look man. If you have some valubable knowledge that is relevant to any thread in the drum room, please share it. Seems like all you do is come in here with a load of insults and negativity. Did someone tell you we were cooking in here? You logged in and there was no food and now youre mad? Get a life man, we're tying to be productive in here.
a. Key emphasis on the word, "trying". :D
b. Key emphasis on "seems like"
c. If you can find a post where I've insulted you then, by all means, PM me about it and we can make it do what it do.
d. Since you and I are logged into LGM, wouldn't that mean that we BOTH would be in need of a life?
e. Fall back, son; it was simply a "harmless" joke.
f. Really, fat jokes; what is this, middle school? ::)
g. Check your PMs.
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f. Check your PMs.
Uhhh...nope! :D Nothin more to say.
Anyone else? Volunteer or Paid Musician? :)
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WOW!!!!!
*Runs out of thread before the calvary arrives*
**takes off stilettos and runs after 3rdDay**
Heyyyyyyyyy....
Wait for meeeeeeeeeee.....
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It's TOO HOT IN HERE!!!!!!
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...wowza!!!! :o
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...any "broke" musicians??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Haha...
I don't get paid from my home chruch, because it's my home. If I get asked to worship with another chruch, then I my get an envolop. I don't have a set fee. I just take what they give me...
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d. Since you and I are logged into LGM, wouldn't that mean that we BOTH would be in need of a life?e. Fall back, son; it was simply a "harmless" joke.
SJ, 18000+ Post? ;D I thought you had job :D?
How marriage treatin' you bruh? Welcome to the club!!!
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SJ, 18000+ Post? ;D I thought you had job :D?
How marriage treatin' you bruh? Welcome to the club!!!
My job affords me the opportunity to engage with you fine folks here @ LGM. ;) 8)
Marriage is great, bruh. I'm glad to be a member of the club. ;D
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My job affords me the opportunity to engage with you fine folks here @ LGM. ;) 8)
Marriage is great, bruh. I'm glad to be a member of the club. ;D
:D... Beautiful. It's 14yrs. of marriage and counting for me and mines...
Are you still teachng english?
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:D... Beautiful. It's 14yrs. of marriage and counting for me and mines...
Are you still teachng english?
14 years? I'll be happy to make 14 weeks. :D :D
I teach music, my brotha. But, I could teach English, if I wanted. ;) :D
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Wow this is thread is.... :-\....funny lmbo
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Wow this is thread is.... :-\....funny lmbo
...this thread is about as dead as an 8" tom with an Evans Hydraulics head with a G2 Clear Reso. :-\
...lets move on. :-\
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Freakin Kev....im cracking up at your posts ;D ;D ;D :D....LOL
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This has gotten dumb new, geez!!! Its easy! Its on your own personal convictions!!!! If you want to paid go tell the board rep and be honest, if you're happy working as a slave then so be it.
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...this thread is about as dead as an 8" tom with an Evans Hydraulics head with a G2 Clear Reso. :-\
...lets move on. :-\
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........(breathe)...............HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA