LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: littlelamb on March 14, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
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Remember the mechanics of playing the piano. You don't play with just your fingers. I always hear people say that having long fingers will help them be a good piano player but that has nothing to do with it. Your fingers have to be trained by your mind to do what you want them to do.
Here are two great links that explain how the piano works and some tips on technique to produce a desired sound. You can produce sound with your shoulder, elbow, wrists, fingers. If all you're playing with is your fingers you're not getting the most out. Gospel musicians tend to play very forcefully which is why the piano goes out of tune quickly (if it's acoustic) and why the keys break on a keyboard. Really if you got skills you can play very softly just as well and very slowly well. If you want to find out if you really know a tune then slow it down and see if you can still play it.
http://www.kenfoster.com/Articles/PracticingTechnique.htm
http://www.chopin.strefa.pl/pict.html
After you read this go practice dropping your arm from those four different places (shoulder, elbow, wrist, finger) and see what sound you get. You can get a triple forte by just dropping your arm at a different place with very little effort.
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Thanks for the info. I see Tons of gospel musicians banging on the keys. Some of these guys take the term "beast" to seriously. But the musicians ones know how to play effortlessley.
I dont like the title though. Gospel musicians should be nmore than machines. A machine does not have a mind of its own. It only does what, someone tells it to do. Being a gospel musician is not an exact science.
How do you feel about hannon exercises?
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I meant machine as a reference to technique and in the context that you CAN control what you're doing. It's more than just sitting down and moving your fingers.
I hate Hanon but that's because I grew up playing classical music. It's like something they force you to do when you start out playing classical. I do think it's effective in the beginning BUT anything where you play the same thing over and over is monotonous and over time will lose its effectiveness. As you grow as a piano player you have to add in more interesting things or else your mind will become bored.
I think the best technique exercises combine practice with practicality. I'd take something you would actually play and make an exercise out of it.
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I think this machine needs a new control module sometimes. ::)
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That's some good knowledge littlelamb, keep it coming.
I hate seeing musicians bang on a keyboard. It makes no sense at all, just tacky and ridiculous. From what I've seen, musicians who do this want to be seen as well as heard. Not all musicians, just some I've witnessed.
Being a gospel musician is not an exact science.
Shoot, being a musician period is not an exact science, no matter genre or instrument u playing. ;)
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Shoot, being a musician period is not an exact science, no matter genre or instrument u playing. ;)
To some people it is. Some People will have a fit if you improvise a Bach peice intsead of playing it straight.
And many times when you are playing with an orchestra, you have to play your part exacly as written
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To some people it is. Some People will have a fit if you improvise a Bach peice intsead of playing it straight.
And many times when you are playing with an orchestra, you have to play your part exacly as written
You see playing a particular piece and playing a genre of music are two different things. Even if u playing a classical piece, it's still not an exact science because:
1. Everyone interprets it different. You can play the notes & rhythms correctly, but the dynamics and tempos are killer. You will never hear 2 people play the same thing the exact same way.
2. Most of the original artist(s) didn't get recorded, so there is no way to truly know what he/she wanted.
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You see playing a particular piece and playing a genre of music are two different things. Even if u playing a classical piece, it's still not an exact science because:
1. Everyone interprets it different. You can play the notes & rhythms correctly, but the dynamics and tempos are killer. You will never hear 2 people play the same thing the exact same way.
2. Most of the original artist(s) didn't get recorded, so there is no way to truly know what he/she wanted.
I know, that was my whole point. Some people and some churches, want you to play everything as written, without any of your own interpretations. There are many that argue that Bach (or whoever) would not want his music improvised. I dont understand those people.
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I know, that was my whole point. Some people and some churches, want you to play everything as written, without any of your own interpretations. There are many that argue that Bach (or whoever) would not want his music improvised. I dont understand those people.
Interesting point. Bach was a BEAST. He could improvise a fugue. A fugue with the inner voices moving independently of each other. Somewhere down the line classical musicians lost the ability and desire to improvise. Arguing with them about that is a lost cause.
But T-Block is right interpretation makes it different. I do think that if the composer took the time to write out a whole piece of music then that means they want you to play those notes because they had a purpose for it as opposed to jazz where it's purposely not written out after the head is played so you can improvise.
For gospel music, I say you can't play it correctly without improvising at some point. They may be mad at your church if you do too much stuff in between that competes with the song and the singers.
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Thanks littlelamb. I was using other parts of my arms to play but lately I started focusing more on using my fingers for strength and dexterity. Im going to have to read this later on tonight.
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Anytime, it really works. I always have to remind myself of these things especially if my arms start hurting after I've warmed up sufficiently.
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Interesting point. Bach was a BEAST. He could improvise a fugue. A fugue with the inner voices moving independently of each other. Somewhere down the line classical musicians lost the ability and desire to improvise. Arguing with them about that is a lost cause.
But T-Block is right interpretation makes it different. I do think that if the composer took the time to write out a whole piece of music then that means they want you to play those notes because they had a purpose for it as opposed to jazz where it's purposely not written out after the head is played so you can improvise.
For gospel music, I say you can't play it correctly without improvising at some point. They may be mad at your church if you do too much stuff in between that competes with the song and the singers.
Those Bach preludes and Fugues are no joke. I bought the Book a few years ago, and that stuff looked so ridiculously difficult, I just put it on the shelf. I used to read difficult stuff, but that was on a whole 'nother level.
If you wanna see a master improvise play Bach, you gotta check out virgil Fox You've probaly heard of him http://youtube.com/watch?v=WQKfz9ytdms
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Those Bach preludes and Fugues are no joke. I bought the Book a few years ago, and that stuff looked so ridiculously difficult, I just put it on the shelf. I used to read difficult stuff, but that was on a whole 'nother level.
If you wanna see a master improvise play Bach, you gotta check out virgil Fox You've probaly heard of him [url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=WQKfz9ytdms[/url]
Wow! Under13. He's playing 5 keyboards and the foot pedals and changing the stops and still playing. Talk about multi-tasking. And making it look like it's simple.
Here's another one who makes it look like nothing. It's Vladimir Horowitz playing Scriabin. Scriabin is sooooooooo hard to play. So hard. He's one of those composers who you open the book and then try to read the first page and then you close it. It's not completely synced with the sound but you'll get the idea.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pPTe1xMB9Uk&feature=related
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Those Bach preludes and Fugues are no joke. I bought the Book a few years ago, and that stuff looked so ridiculously difficult, I just put it on the shelf. I used to read difficult stuff, but that was on a whole 'nother level.
If you wanna see a master improvise play Bach, you gotta check out virgil Fox You've probaly heard of him [url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=WQKfz9ytdms[/url]
He's aight. lol :D
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Joking. I wish I could play like that.
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Wow! Under13. He's playing 5 keyboards and the foot pedals and changing the stops and still playing. Talk about multi-tasking. And making it look like it's simple.
Here's another one who makes it look like nothing. It's Vladimir Horowitz playing Scriabin. Scriabin is sooooooooo hard to play. So hard. He's one of those composers who you open the book and then try to read the first page and then you close it. It's not completely synced with the sound but you'll get the idea.
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=pPTe1xMB9Uk&feature=related[/url]
Funny, I was checking out that guys other clip last week. And They both was doin all that without reading music.
Check out this girl playin http://youtube.com/watch?v=D0ERlIvwhAU&feature=related
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Hee! Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Lizst were all MAD improvisors!
Good thing they wrote it down for the rest of us in the age before computers and recording equipment...
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Funny, I was checking out that guys other clip last week. And They both was doin all that without reading music.
Check out this girl playin [url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=D0ERlIvwhAU&feature=related[/url]
Yeah I posted her in the Jazz room. She is awesome!!!
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I hate learning fugues, they so doggone hard, LOL.
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This is a sick thread!!
Littlelamb, your presence here has made me want to take my sheet music more seriously..
I've been looking at the Hanons & thinking...mhhhh..
Horowitz is 1 of a kind!
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I hate learning fugues, they so doggone hard, LOL.
Nothing is hard for you. ;D
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This is a sick thread!!
Littlelamb, your presence here has made me want to take my sheet music more seriously..
I've been looking at the Hanons & thinking...mhhhh..
Horowitz is 1 of a kind!
Yeah M ... Horowitz makes you wanna get back in the shed and go practice.
I would take a difficult section of something that you are learning and make an exercise out of it. They also have a book of exercises by Czerny. It's called the School of Velocity, Opus 299. You can order online. It's more like playing an actual piece than doing Hanon exercises. The thing is most of them are supposed to be played PRESTO.
But you can work up to it. (I can work up to it, I should say). I need to get the book myself. I was using my friend's copy. If I get it I'll scan into a pdf and send to you. ;)
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Yeah M ... Horowitz makes you wanna get back in the shed and go practice.
I would take a difficult section of something that you are learning and make an exercise out of it. They also have a book of exercises by Czerny. It's called the School of Velocity, Opus 299. You can order online. It's more like playing an actual piece than doing Hanon exercises. The thing is most of them are supposed to be played PRESTO.
But you can work up to it. (I can work up to it, I should say). I need to get the book myself. I was using my friend's copy. If I get it I'll scan into a pdf and send to you. ;)
Be sure you have the publisher's or author's permission before doing so. ;D
There are laws against certain kinds of product reproduction without permission, and we know we're supposed to obey the laws of the land... ;)
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Nothing is hard for you. ;D
If only u knew. I'm still struggling with sight-reading basic stuff, let alone fugues and what not.
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If only u knew. I'm still struggling with sight-reading basic stuff, let alone fugues and what not.
That's great, dude! If something is a struggle for you then you have something to work on for the rest of your life and then you'll be really good down the road. If you can even try to play a fugue you're ahead of the average gospel musician.
So, let's make a deal. Playing traditional gospel and learning by ear is a struggle for me although I've come a long way. Give me some of your chops and I'll give you some of mine.
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Yeah M ... Horowitz makes you wanna get back in the shed and go practice.
I would take a difficult section of something that you are learning and make an exercise out of it. They also have a book of exercises by Czerny. It's called the School of Velocity, Opus 299. You can order online. It's more like playing an actual piece than doing Hanon exercises. The thing is most of them are supposed to be played PRESTO.
But you can work up to it. (I can work up to it, I should say). I need to get the book myself. I was using my friend's copy. If I get it I'll scan into a pdf and send to you. ;)
U'r a real cat than if U'r playing Czerny :o I heard those exercises are not for the faint-hearted :P
But you can work up to it. (I can work up to it, I should say). I need to get the book myself. I was using my friend's copy. If I get it I'll scan into a pdf and send to you. ;)
Oh no, hope I'm not inconveniencing U coz as Larue has said, U need to obtain copyright permission...but w8 a sec Larue, isn't Czerny a work made prior 1936 ?/?
Doesn't that mean that it is now free public domain ?/? (just like the Hanons [ which you can find here BTW):
http://www2.free-scores.com/PUBLIC/IMSLP/Hanpart1.pdf
http://www2.free-scores.com/PUBLIC/IMSLP/Hanpart2.pdf
http://www2.free-scores.com/PUBLIC/IMSLP/Hanpart3.pdf
But I cheat for the 1st part of the Hanons: http://www.pianoclues.com/2008/02/03/hanon-exercises-for-folks-who-dont-read-sheet-music-part-1/ :-[ ;D
But I'm up to sheet music now since my sister's taking classics classes again & I just force myself to play it anyway so that should she want us to play sheet together, I'm there.
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That's great, dude! If something is a struggle for you then you have something to work on for the rest of your life and then you'll be really good down the road. If you can even try to play a fugue you're ahead of the average gospel musician.
So, let's make a deal. Playing traditional gospel and learning by ear is a struggle for me although I've come a long way. Give me some of your chops and I'll give you some of mine.
Please guys, I hope this materializes..
I'm so fed up with guys around my place..most just don't want to shed (1 or 2 who are willing to shed)..so I really don't want to "annoy" them, so what I do nowadays is shed with buddies in other parts of the world...Thank God for live internet chat I can give my friend in Curiaco some Contemporary gospel chops, & she gives me some classical pops & I move on with my life..
I wish U successful shedding.
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U'r a real cat than if U'r playing Czerny :o I heard those exercises are not for the faint-hearted :P
Oh no, hope I'm not inconveniencing U coz as Larue has said, U need to obtain copyright permission...but w8 a sec Larue, isn't Czerny a work made prior 1936 ?/?
Yeah, no one cares about copyright permission for finger exercises. 1) It's for educational use and 2) the people that wrote them have been dead for like 100 years or more. And anyway, you could memorize Hanon exercises after hearing them the first time so it's not really a composed piece of music. It's like sharing chords to songs. No one can come after you for that.
What are you working on these days for church?
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Yeah, no one cares about copyright permission for finger exercises. 1) It's for educational use and 2) the people that wrote them have been dead for like 100 years or more. And anyway, you could memorize Hanon exercises after hearing them the first time so it's not really a composed piece of music. It's like sharing chords to songs. No one can come after you for that.
:DU'r str8 talk sis :D 8)
What are you working on these days for church?
Music-wise? mhh, I'll start playing the lead next week 4 the 1st time ever (& It's been a while since I've played the synths)..so there's nothing I've been working on per se.
What I have been doing is :
1) playing a selection of songs a number of songs in all the keys.
2) Practicing my talk music.
3) Learning some songs from nice albums that I think the choir could sing...but I'm not in charge of that, so I'm just taking chances, but anyway, i learn the songs for my personal fulfilment..
But I might not be on the lead if things work out...I imagine there'll be 1 person on the piano, another on the organ & then I can take on the synths..
So I've been working alot with instrumentals & other jazz stuff.
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The Missouri Southern Internation Piano Competition.
It takes place next month.
Here is a website that talks about it:
http://www.mssu.edu/msipc
Do you enter competitions like this 1 littlelamb or have you been promoted to judge ;D
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Unlike many of you I had no formal piano training. My father was church musician but he had his own style and was too busy running his business and playing for churches to show me anything. I learned by watching my music teacher (high school band) show me the C major scale and two chord prgressions. He told me I'm there to play french horn not piano. My love for music compelled me to "find" the notes of the music I had "memorized" and using bad fingering technique I would find what I could remember. For years I would play whatever I could hear and yes struggled when I didn't know the correct chord. It wasn't unitl many years past I started buying the scale books for beginners that I saw how far off I was. Now, I rely on those books to correct my interpretation of chords and scales as I'm instructing in my online course. I could play whatever I heard couldn't tell you what I was playing. I enjoy watching classical piansts play and I still marvel at the speed technique they use playing those pieces. I'll never play Carnigie Hall in NYC but I have a great audience on LGM and YouTube ;)
You may have seen my piano warmup routine on youtube, yes my fingers are that fast and accurate after I've warmed-up :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0SZ7KFT8Sg
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After reading Dr. Tolbert's post, I find myself guilty of not practicing my scales :-[ :'(
If that's what I'm expected to get up to 1 day, then I better play your vid each time before I practice..
I drew alot of inspiration from your message Soundofjoy. 8)
But I'm not convinced that you could never play Carnegie ::)
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The Missouri Southern Internation Piano Competition.
It takes place next month.
Here is a website that talks about it:
[url]http://www.mssu.edu/msipc[/url]
Do you enter competitions like this 1 littlelamb or have you been promoted to judge ;D
HA!!! I've got skillz but not that much. For one, memorizing that much music is an arduous task. I had to do it in college. It is painstaking and very, very, time consuming and then you might forget. My technique is pretty good but not that good. I taught myself to play and I came late in the game in terms of classical musicians. I really didn't get going until I was 11. So, some of my technique is faulty.
Who says you couldn't play Carnegie?
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HA!!! I've got skillz but not that much. For one, memorizing that much music is an arduous task. I had to do it in college. It is painstaking and very, very, time consuming and then you might forget. My technique is pretty good but not that good. I taught myself to play and I came late in the game in terms of classical musicians. I really didn't get going until I was 11. So, some of my technique is faulty.Who says you couldn't play Carnegie?
What :o So you reckon 11 is too late already :-\, then that means there'd never be hope for us who started at 21. :P
I have faith in your abilities sis.
Who says you couldn't play Carnegie?
Is this addressed to me?
I was referring to Soundofjoy's statement..
check how he runs those scales for warm ups..i repent of not doing my warm ups as I ought to...
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So, let's make a deal. Playing traditional gospel and learning by ear is a struggle for me although I've come a long way. Give me some of your chops and I'll give you some of mine.
That's a sweet deal, you're on. It would probably even better if we was helping each other in person, but LGM wil do, LOL.
For one, memorizing that much music is an arduous task. I had to do it in college. It is painstaking and very, very, time consuming and then you might forget.
You tell em, I'm in that situation right now. The only way we can perform is from memory. Tell em about the recitals, we gotta memorize 30-45 minutes of memorized classical music. Some of them jaunts can be 20+ pages long.
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That's a sweet deal, you're on. It would probably even better if we was helping each other in person, but LGM wil do, LOL.
You tell em, I'm in that situation right now. The only way we can perform is from memory. Tell em about the recitals, we gotta memorize 30-45 minutes of memorized classical music. Some of them jaunts can be 20+ pages long.
Why do you have to memorize? I'm sure it will pay off, but I know alot of classical musicians with degrees, who still swear by their music.
I would have to memorize it, Cuz I cant stay focused enough when reading semi complicaed stuff. My teacher used to hate when I played from memory
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Why do you have to memorize? I'm sure it will pay off, but I know alot of classical musicians with degrees, who still swear by their music.
I would have to memorize it, Cuz I cant stay focused enough when reading semi complicaed stuff. My teacher used to hate when I played from memory
That's the way it's done. I'm one of those who swears by the music. Honestly, they're right. You can't execute difficult music well unless you're able to look at your hands and at the keys. Then if you do you'll lose your place in the music. The other thing is playing solo piano music for a concert is easier without having to get someone to turn pages for you.
And as T-Bone says, you can't just memorize a piece of music that's 20+ pages with ease. You're supposed to be playing what the composer wrote and interpreting it in your own way but still playing the right notes. If you improvise on the notes then that means you're playing it WRONG.
You tell em, I'm in that situation right now. The only way we can perform is from memory. Tell em about the recitals, we gotta memorize 30-45 minutes of memorized classical music. Some of them jaunts can be 20+ pages long.
I am sooooooooo glad I'm not in school anymore. People don't recognize how difficult it is to major in music in college. Every semester you have to have juries and play what you've been learning in front of the teachers of your instrument. Talk about HIGH Anxiety, like the kind where you're about throw up.
I can say that God kept me when I was in school. It took some serious prayer. If you forget your music you may not be able to remember and get back on. My friend from college was really good. He had much better technique than me and he could really play but he always forgot his music. He was really proud and haughty and yet he still couldn't get through one piece of music without forgetting it. One thing I can say is God helped me make it through 8 semesters of piano juries. PRAISE HIM!!!
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I can say that God kept me when I was in school. It took some serious prayer. If you forget your music you may not be able to remember and get back on. My friend from college was really good. He had much better technique than me and he could really play but he always forgot his music. He was really proud and haughty and yet he still couldn't get through one piece of music without forgetting it. One thing I can say is God helped me make it through 8 semesters of piano juries. PRAISE HIM!!!
Wow!!
Praise be to Him indeed..
I don't think I'll ever want to major in music :-\
It would take away all the pleasure content in it for me..
I just enjoy learning some things in an informal environment..
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Why do you have to memorize? I'm sure it will pay off, but I know alot of classical musicians with degrees, who still swear by their music.
Cuz they said so, LOL. Perfoming in school is different from performing in real life. Sight-reading is the easier part, the hard part is interpretation (feel for u gospel people). U can't sight-read that no matter what u do. That only comes from practice, studying the music itself, and studying the composer (if necessary). Even the professionals practice their music before hand, they just have the music their just in case they forget some notes.
People don't recognize how difficult it is to major in music in college. Every semester you have to have juries and play what you've been learning in front of the teachers of your instrument. Talk about HIGH Anxiety, like the kind where you're about throw up.
Dat's the sho' nuff troof right there. Them juries ain't no joke. You have to keep showing improvement in your skills as well as your musical choices. They all lead to that big "Senior Recital" where u get to show everybody what u can really do. With the Lord's help, I'm gonna learn this stuff so that I can be a better musician for His glory and for my music career.
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Cuz they said so, LOL. Perfoming in school is different from performing in real life. Sight-reading is the easier part, the hard part is interpretation (feel for u gospel people). U can't sight-read that no matter what u do. That only comes from practice, studying the music itself, and studying the composer (if necessary). Even the professionals practice their music before hand, they just have the music their just in case they forget some notes.
Doesn't sound very fun to me :-\
Dat's the sho' nuff troof right there. Them juries ain't no joke. You have to keep showing improvement in your skills as well as your musical choices. They all lead to that big "Senior Recital" where u get to show everybody what u can really do. With the Lord's help, I'm gonna learn this stuff so that I can be a better musician for His glory and for my music career.
All the best man..
I know U'll do it.
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Doesn't sound very fun to me :-\
It's only fun if you like the music and after u have learned said music. If you hate classical music, you will be bored to tears majoring in Music. I'm having a ball learning this stuff, even though some of it is hard as heck. I just look at it as expanding my musical territory. I also keep in mind my real goal in life (open a Gospel Music School) whenever i feel like quitting. This is one of many stepping-stones that will help me accomplish my goal.
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It's only fun if you like the music and after u have learned said music. If you hate classical music, you will be bored to tears majoring in Music. I'm having a ball learning this stuff, even though some of it is hard as heck. I just look at it as expanding my musical territory. I also keep in mind my real goal in life (open a Gospel Music School) whenever i feel like quitting. This is one of many stepping-stones that will help me accomplish my goal.
Yeah, U'r spot on there..
I think I enjoy classical music..I even have a few cds which I bought purely so I could learn the music..
But i guess classic is deeper than just listen to cds & trying to play along.
You have big dreams man..I know the school will come to pass.
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Yeah, U'r spot on there..
I think I enjoy classical music..I even have a few cds which I bought purely so I could learn the music..
But i guess classic is deeper than just listen to cds & trying to play along.
Well, I'll be honest wit u man, it's close to impossible to learn classical music by ear. You can get the basic pattern or style and play a dummied up version, but for the real thing u must get the actual sheet music. Once u get the sheet music, you will find that it is 100x harder to learn cuz each hand has specific things to play.
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Well, I'll be honest wit u man, it's close to impossible to learn classical music by ear. You can get the basic pattern or style and play a dummied up version, but for the real thing u must get the actual sheet music. Once u get the sheet music, you will find that it is 100x harder to learn cuz each hand has specific things to play.
True that!!! :P
U can say it again..
Right now the only sheet music I'm getting into is the simple stuff like Canon , Amazing Grace etc..I don't want to be a miserable person..I just want to have fun :)
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True that!!! :P
U can say it again..
Right now the only sheet music I'm getting into is the simple stuff like Canon , Amazing Grace etc..I don't want to be a miserable person..I just want to have fun :)
Becoming/Being a Great musician is not always gonna fun.
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That's the way it's done. I'm one of those who swears by the music. Honestly, they're right. You can't execute difficult music well unless you're able to look at your hands and at the keys. Then if you do you'll lose your place in the music. The other thing is playing solo piano music for a concert is easier without having to get someone to turn pages for you.
And as T-Bone says, you can't just memorize a piece of music that's 20+ pages with ease. You're supposed to be playing what the composer wrote and interpreting it in your own way but still playing the right notes. If you improvise on the notes then that means you're playing it WRONG. I am sooooooooo glad I'm not in school anymore. People don't recognize how difficult it is to major in music in college. Every semester you have to have juries and play what you've been learning in front of the teachers of your instrument. Talk about HIGH Anxiety, like the kind where you're about throw up.
I can say that God kept me when I was in school. It took some serious prayer. If you forget your music you may not be able to remember and get back on. My friend from college was really good. He had much better technique than me and he could really play but he always forgot his music. He was really proud and haughty and yet he still couldn't get through one piece of music without forgetting it. One thing I can say is God helped me make it through 8 semesters of piano juries. PRAISE HIM!!!
OMG! Did you just call him T-Bone? All this while i thought his name was T-Block. :D
And that my people,is my only contribution to this thread ;)
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OMG! Did you just call him T-Bone? All this while i thought his name was T-Block. :D
It's funny cuz in real life my mom calls me bone as a knickname, LOL.
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I'm sorry. I didn't mean to call you T-Bone. I don't know what I was thinking. :D
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I'll never play Carnigie Hall in NYC but I have a great audience on LGM and YouTube ;)
If you want to be there He can make it possible. lol