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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: musallio on March 20, 2008, 12:12:44 PM

Title: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 20, 2008, 12:12:44 PM
Hi there,

I need your help:

Our church building has been completed & needs to be furnished.
The people voted for tiles instead of the carpet on the floor..

So I'm part of the team tasked to find out what can be done to prevent echoes...So far the walls are just bricks & the interior of the main worship area is pretty much rectangular...it's about 1 & 1/2 storeys high & the dimensions are about 80m * 40 (L*B)..

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: sjonathan02 on March 20, 2008, 12:18:03 PM
Your church NEEDS carpet.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: JustBecause on March 20, 2008, 12:18:10 PM
lay down some carpet... LMBO!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on March 20, 2008, 02:19:05 PM
It's pretty much done.  They cared more about the look that the acoustics.  I'm sure most of the tile fans are non-musicians right?  I trip off how folks think you can just fix stuff in other ways than the obvious.


 Let's just say that the cheapest alternative would be carpet.  You could maybe try carpeting the walls if they just have to have the tile.  Also, they do manufacture carpet tiles.  Good luck.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: 3rd-Day on March 20, 2008, 02:24:32 PM
Hi there,

I need your help:

Our church building has been completed & needs to be furnished.
The people voted for tiles instead of the carpet on the floor..

So I'm part of the team tasked to find out what can be done to prevent echoes...So far the walls are just bricks & the interior of the main worship area is pretty much rectangular...it's about 1 & 1/2 storeys high & the dimensions are about 80m * 40 (L*B)..

Thanks in advance.

Nevernind the sound. Tile floors in a church.  Aint that a safety hazzard?? If someone fell out in spirit and the ushers aint on top of their game, they could bust their head. And God forbid if somebody decides they feel like running around the church, they can slip on that tile and bust both knee caps and a rib.  Yall must plan on wearing sneakers with the suits and skirts like the 80s!
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: themidiroom on March 20, 2008, 02:35:09 PM
Hi there,

I need your help:

Our church building has been completed & needs to be furnished.
The people voted for tiles instead of the carpet on the floor..

So I'm part of the team tasked to find out what can be done to prevent echoes...So far the walls are just bricks & the interior of the main worship area is pretty much rectangular...it's about 1 & 1/2 storeys high & the dimensions are about 80m * 40 (L*B)..

Thanks in advance.
How much money is available?  You could have sound absorbing panels installed on the walls.  You would need a LOT of them however.    You can also install a similar type of panel on the ceiling or a series of baffle type pannels which would hang from the ceiling.  All of these options can be really expensive for a large building.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on March 20, 2008, 02:37:36 PM
Nevernind the sound. Tile floors in a church.  Aint that a safety hazzard?? If someone fell out in spirit and the ushers aint on top of their game, they could bust their head. And God forbid if somebody decides they feel like running around the church, they can slip on that tile and bust both knee caps and a rib.  Yall must plan on wearing sneakers with the suits and skirts like the 80s!

I was thinking that too.  And let's not forget how slick and dirty it will get when it rains.  Not everybody wipes their shoes when they come into a building.  I can hear it now.  Hey there Sister Jo.....SPLATTTT!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: T-Block on March 20, 2008, 02:53:57 PM
I hope your church got a looooootttttt of insurance money, cuz yall gonna need it.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: 3rd-Day on March 20, 2008, 03:07:33 PM
I hope your church got a looooootttttt of insurance money, cuz yall gonna need it.
Say word!
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: uriahsmusic on March 20, 2008, 03:27:35 PM
...I would sit who is ever making the decisions down NOW.......before they make any more decisions....and explain to them that building should be done as a complete vision!..each  part fullfilling a purpose!!!...Even if things are done fare apart.....they are gunna pay 10 times more trying to fix each decision that is not well thought out!
....they need to stop, drop and roll....now! :o ;D >:( :o
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: themidiroom on March 20, 2008, 03:31:09 PM
I hope your church got a looooootttttt of insurance money, cuz yall gonna need it.
They probably aren't sue happy in South Africa like they are here in the states.  Only in America    ;D
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: 3rd-Day on March 20, 2008, 03:35:33 PM
Their praise breaks are gonna sound like River Dancing!! Not to mention the sound of hard shoes on the floor anytime somebody gets up to walk. Im with Uriah sit them down now.
*Simon Cowell Voice* The acoustics are going to be bloody horrible.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: Mysteryman on March 20, 2008, 03:38:03 PM
Nevernind the sound. Tile floors in a church.  Aint that a safety hazzard?? If someone fell out in spirit and the ushers aint on top of their game, they could bust their head. And God forbid if somebody decides they feel like running around the church, they can slip on that tile and bust both knee caps and a rib.  Yall must plan on wearing sneakers with the suits and skirts like the 80s!

LOL. That's what I was thinking. Sort of.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: Mysteryman on March 20, 2008, 03:39:26 PM
How much money is available?  You could have sound absorbing panels installed on the walls.  You would need a LOT of them however.    You can also install a similar type of panel on the ceiling or a series of baffle type pannels which would hang from the ceiling.  All of these options can be really expensive for a large building.

Two words: Egg cartons.  :D Joking.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on March 20, 2008, 03:39:57 PM

I have an idea.  They should start a tap dancing ministry.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: T-Block on March 20, 2008, 03:40:08 PM
They probably aren't sue happy in South Africa like they are here in the states.  Only in America    ;D

I was gonna say something, but I'm gonna keep it to myself.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: LaylaMonroe on March 20, 2008, 03:40:35 PM
...I would sit who is ever making the decisions down NOW.......before they make any more decisions....and explain to them that building should be done as a complete vision!..each  part fullfilling a purpose!!!...Even if things are done fare apart.....they are gunna pay 10 times more trying to fix each decision that is not well thought out!
....they need to stop, drop and roll....now! :o ;D >:( :o


I agree.

If I were you, and in this situation here in the US, I would have a sound expert come and prepare an estimate of what it would cost to achieve optimal sound (or whatever the correct lingo is) in that particular building with tiled floors.  I would then present a formal recommendation to the pastor and/or Board of Directors, along with the expert's estimate.

I've been faced with similar situations (although I was on the other side of the issue).  When musicians or other folks who know their craft better than I do come to me with hard-core facts, substantiated by other experts, it's hard for me to ignore an expert opinion, to opt for what I think LOOKS better or costs less.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: under13 on March 20, 2008, 03:47:11 PM
I hope your church got a looooootttttt of insurance money, cuz yall gonna need it.

The people should have to sign a release before they decide run around the church, like its a marathon or somthin



Are wood floors just as bad? My church has stone walls and very high ceilings so the acoustics arent that good for drums and stuff.

One church I go to had the walls specially made to have good acoustics. You dont even need a mic to talk and every on will hear you.
I agree.

If I were you, and in this situation here in the US, I would have a sound expert come and prepare an estimate of what it would cost to achieve optimal sound (or whatever the correct lingo is) in that particular building with tiled floors.  I would then present a formal recommendation to the pastor and/or Board of Directors, along with the expert's estimate.

I've been faced with similar situations (although I was on the other side of the issue).  When musicians or other folks who know their craft better than I do come to me with hard-core facts, substantiated by other experts, it's hard for me to ignore an expert opinion, to opt for what I think LOOKS better or costs less.

Some churches could care less about stuff like that, and dont consult the people who know about music. Some are too cheap to pay for it and sadly many congregations dont have people who know about that kinda stuff. But you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: Mysteryman on March 20, 2008, 03:47:43 PM
I have an idea.  They should start a tap dancing ministry.

LOL  :D
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: themidiroom on March 20, 2008, 03:48:08 PM
I've been in a few churches that were tiled that had pretty decent acoustics.  Your issue is that all of your surfaces are hard and therefore reflective.  You're going to have to soften up your walls or ceiling to cut down on the decay time.  There's also asthetics to consider.  A lot of churches frown on the look of acoustic panels and baffles.  I agree with LaRue.  Let them know your thoughts and insist on having a consultant come in and make suggestions and then get the cost and see if they are willing to do it the right way.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: LaylaMonroe on March 20, 2008, 03:54:56 PM
Some churches could care less about stuff like that, and dont consult the people who know about music. Some are too cheap to pay for it and sadly many congregations dont have people who know about that kinda stuff. But you get what you pay for.

Are you sure you meant to quote me?  I'm not sure I understand how this is in response to anything I said... maybe I just missed something.  :-\
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: Fenix on March 20, 2008, 04:04:15 PM
Are you sure you meant to quote me?  I'm not sure I understand how this is in response to anything I said... maybe I just missed something.  :-\

Yes he did. You said;

...
If I were you, and in this situation here in the US, I would have a sound expert come and prepare an estimate of what it would cost to achieve optimal sound (or whatever the correct lingo is) in that particular building with tiled floors.  I would then present a formal recommendation to the pastor and/or Board of Directors, along with the expert's estimate.

He replied;


Some churches could care less about stuff like that, and dont consult the people who know about music. Some are too cheap to pay for it and sadly many congregations dont have people who know about that kinda stuff. But you get what you pay for.

Let the "OOOOOHHHHHHH NOW I GEDDIT!!" ensue. :) :) :)
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: LaylaMonroe on March 20, 2008, 04:34:55 PM
Yes he did. You said;

He replied;

Let the "OOOOOHHHHHHH NOW I GEDDIT!!" ensue. :) :) :)

That's why it didn't make sense to me....

I realize that some churches don't care about that kind of stuff, and don't consult the people who know about music (which is obviously what happened at Musallio's church).  I also know that some churches don't have people who know about that kinda stuff...

**selah**

**speaking slowly**

Which is why I suggested that MUSALLIO (not the church) have an (OUTSIDE) expert come to the church and provide an estimate of what it would cost to achieve the sound he wants, and present that to the church leadership.

**selah**

If Musallio had already done that to no avail, then U13's response would make a lot more sense.  Otherwise, it's just... well... nevermind.  :-\
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: Fenix on March 20, 2008, 05:10:50 PM
That's why it didn't make sense to me....

I realize that some churches don't care about that kind of stuff, and don't consult the people who know about music (which is obviously what happened at Musallio's church).  I also know that some churches don't have people who know about that kinda stuff...

**selah**

**speaking slowly**

Which is why I suggested that MUSALLIO (not the church) have an (OUTSIDE) expert come to the church and provide an estimate of what it would cost to achieve the sound he wants, and present that to the church leadership.

**selah**

If Musallio had already done that to no avail, then U13's response would make a lot more sense.  Otherwise, it's just... well... nevermind.  :-\

Hmm... to me his statement makes perfect sense. You advocate for the church to call in experts. He says that some churches don't CARE to call in experts.

Seems pretty durn clear to me.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: LaylaMonroe on March 20, 2008, 05:20:38 PM
Hmm... to me his statement makes perfect sense. You advocate for the church to call in experts. He says that some churches don't CARE to call in experts.

Seems pretty durn clear to me.

This is why it's so "clear" to you...

I did not advocate for the church to call in experts.

**I'll wait here while you re-read what I typed**

Okay, you back now?

Good.

As you just saw from your re-reading of my words, I suggested that MUSALLIO (not "the church") call in an expert and PRESENT IT TO "the church."

If you still don't understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying, let's just agree to disagree.  'kay?  I don't wanna go back and forth over something so very minor (or over something that doesn't affect me personally... or over something with someone to whom I wasn't really talking anyway... lol)  :-\
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: under13 on March 20, 2008, 05:34:40 PM
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa105/happychick333_webkinz/popcorn.gif)

Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on March 20, 2008, 06:27:16 PM
That's why it didn't make sense to me....

I realize that some churches don't care about that kind of stuff, and don't consult the people who know about music (which is obviously what happened at Musallio's church).  I also know that some churches don't have people who know about that kinda stuff...

**selah**

**speaking slowly**

Which is why I suggested that MUSALLIO (not the church) have an (OUTSIDE) expert come to the church and provide an estimate of what it would cost to achieve the sound he wants, and present that to the church leadership.

**selah**

If Musallio had already done that to no avail, then U13's response would make a lot more sense.  Otherwise, it's just... well... nevermind.  :-\

With some folks, someone on the outside has to say it in order for the know-it-alls to hold it true.  I dealt with this at my church when I was the sound man.  There were so many things that were needed because they ignored my initial suggestions when the system was being bought.  Then they want to constantly ask me why so many things were going wrong.  I finally just got fed up and stepped down.  Now they've spent all of this extra money because someone with much less knowledge stated that they needed some of the very same basic things I pleaded for.   I could have saved them so much money but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: LaylaMonroe on March 20, 2008, 06:45:35 PM
With some folks, someone on the outside has to say it in order for the know-it-alls to hold it true.  I dealt with this at my church when I was the sound man.  There were so many things that were needed because they ignored my initial suggestions when the system was being bought.  Then they want to constantly ask me why so many things were going wrong.  I finally just got fed up and stepped down.  Now they've spent all of this extra money because someone with much less knowledge stated that they needed some of the very same basic things I pleaded for.   I could have saved them so much money but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!.

Yep.  And as I admitted, I was the same way.  I had no problem telling the musicians and soundpeople what I thought was economical or prudent, when I really had no idea all of what needed to be considered.  It took ONE person to step to me the way I suggested Musallio step to his folks, and I learned my lesson.  I don't like musicians to tell me how to administrate, so I don't tell them how to do what they do.  I want them to respect my expertise, and in exchange, I have to respect theirs.  :-\
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on March 20, 2008, 07:27:23 PM
<to be placed in the "things that annoy me in church thread>


When the church brass plan stuf, and never consult the musicians and soundpeople for input and then they want you to solve the acoustic problems later.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 21, 2008, 05:13:45 AM
They probably aren't sue happy in South Africa like they are here in the states.  Only in America    ;D

Hahahaha ;D :D ;D :D
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 21, 2008, 05:29:13 AM
WoW...me just away for a few hours & I already have 28 responses :o 8) Alright guys, you better stop posting anymore comments now, lest I run out of ink :D

Thanks for real, your statement have made the task team's duty way easier..
I will just print this out & we'll present it to the church board&, Im sure that this should convince them.

The music guys were all for the carpet in the 1st place...we could have motivated for the carpet, but we/ (I) didn't want to come out as wanting only my wishes entertained (because I had already made a whole lota sujestions). I better not submit this part to the board :P

We are currently in a tiled building & the accoustics are quite fine, there are no absorbers on the walls..the only time we have a slight problem is when the drums are being played very loudly, but the congregation seems to like that ::)

Wo-rite, enough from me, In most probability it will be the carpet :) 8)

ps:

T-Block, what were those comments U were reserving about themidiroom's insurance statement? ;D

Guys, have a fantastic Easter. ;)
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: Fenix on March 21, 2008, 08:16:45 AM
This is why it's so "clear" to you...

I did not advocate for the church to call in experts.

**I'll wait here while you re-read what I typed**

Okay, you back now?

Good.

As you just saw from your re-reading of my words, I suggested that MUSALLIO (not "the church") call in an expert and PRESENT IT TO "the church."

If you still don't understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying, let's just agree to disagree.  'kay?  I don't wanna go back and forth over something so very minor (or over something that doesn't affect me personally... or over something with someone to whom I wasn't really talking anyway... lol)  :-\

Note to self: Never argue with wimins.  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 21, 2008, 08:56:17 AM
Note to self: Never argue with wimins.  :-\ :-\
:D :D ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: T-Block on March 21, 2008, 09:43:00 AM
T-Block, what were those comments U were reserving about themidiroom's insurance statement? ;D

Trust me man, u don't wanna know.  I actually need to go repent for it right now, LOL.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 21, 2008, 09:58:13 AM
Trust me man, u don't wanna know.  I actually need to go repent for it right now, LOL.

They must have been very nasty if they command repentance...
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: T-Block on March 21, 2008, 10:01:47 AM
They must have been very nasty if they command repentance...

They were kind of judgemental thoughts.  I'm learning more and more to think before I speak.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 21, 2008, 10:10:07 AM
They were kind of judgemental thoughts.  I'm learning more and more to think before I speak.

I figured so..But the good thing about Christ is He's arms are always open to a repenting soul.
God bless ya 4 coming clean..
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: musallio on March 21, 2008, 10:15:35 AM
I've just been thinking about this idea of insuring the people against damage incurred at church:

1stly, there'll be too many if's & that's in the clauses..
If the church has built a building that is reasonably safe & would not normally be a safety risk, then I think insuring heads will only serve to strain the church coffers..

There are already enough items being insured including the building itself..but I dunno :-\
Anyway, all of us in the task team were pushing for the carpet..we just have to motivate convincingly.
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: LaylaMonroe on March 21, 2008, 10:33:08 AM
One could sue for rug burn if one wanted to.... or one could trip over a snag in the carpet (as I have.... lol).... or one could trip over a bubble in the carpet...

And what are we discussing again????
Title: Re: How To Get Best Sound If The Church Floor Is Tiled????
Post by: T-Block on March 21, 2008, 10:35:19 AM
I figured so..But the good thing about Christ is He's arms are always open to a repenting soul.
God bless ya 4 coming clean..

Indeed.