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Main => Ministry, M.O.M, Praise Teams and Choirs => Topic started by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 07:55:38 AM

Title: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
OK so the issue is that our MOM left a while back. Since then people seem to think that the choir is some kind of dump where anyone and everyone can join. Sadly because we have little experience in this, we have been taking in some people who cannot sing or are not serious about singing at all. The P&W leader had a long talk to the choir cuz certain bad habits had been forming and had not been checked in time.

So we want to come up with a formal process of auditioning choir members. Unfortunately none of the musicians have any clue how to do that. We have just been asking them to sing for us and then we accept them.

My question is this; what do we look for when auditioning choir members? What should we be addressing and what is the best way to screen out people?

Thanks all.

Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Redy2bUsed on May 12, 2008, 08:18:41 AM
Well fam....thats a good question,
I'm actually in the process of starting a choir...

So I'll tell you what I think. :-\

You don't need a choir full of soloists.
You need people who know how to sing in a group.
A few soloist of course...But everyone doesn't
have to be some amazing singer.But they have to be good.
I feel that you need people who can support their voice part.
Ex. Strong Tenors...Strong alto section And strong Sopranos.
With maybe 2 or 3 strong soloist in each section.
And let the folk know that everyone who auditions
will not be singing on the choir...Cause everyone cannot sing.
Its nothing personal. Thats just the way it is.
And try to make sure that everyone has an humble attitude.
Key word....TRY.

Title: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 08:19:09 AM
OK so the issue is that our MOM left a while back. Since then people seem to think that the choir is some kind of dump where anyone and everyone can join. Sadly because we have little experience in this, we have been taking in some people who cannot sing or are not serious about singing at all. The P&W leader had a long talk to the choir cuz certain bad habits had been forming and had not been checked in time.

So we want to come up with a formal process of auditioning choir members. Unfortunately none of the musicians have any clue how to do that. We have just been asking them to sing for us and then we accept them.

My question is this; what do we look for when auditioning choir members? What should we be addressing and what is the best way to screen out people?

Thanks all.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 08:30:42 AM
Thanks Redy,

I understand that we don't need a choir of soloists.

This past Sunday we had a special number. we had to play the intro like five times cuz the choir members didn't understand that the song had started. I do thank God that the song was nailed eventually, but this cannot keep going on. Choir members cannot be forgetting what part they sing and such.

The fault i guess comes with the fact that us musicians in the church are just plain instrumentalists. Even our bassist, who is the sickest guy on the bass i have ever seen, does not know how to assign choir parts.

So, in essence, what happens is this; all the choir members huddle around the CD player and listen to it. Then arguments start along the vein of what each person THINKS he is hearing. I am sitting there like "There has GOT to be a better way of doing this." Then choir members go home and totally forget how they were to sing the song on Sunday.

I am not even casting blame on anyone. We are not professionals and by God's grace we will get a professional who knows what to do. In the meantime however i need to know how to assign choir parts. 
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 08:43:37 AM
Thanks Redy,

I understand that we don't need a choir of soloists.

This past Sunday we had a special number. we had to play the intro like five times cuz the choir members didn't understand that the song had started. I do thank God that the song was nailed eventually, but this cannot keep going on. Choir members cannot be forgetting what part they sing and such.

The fault i guess comes with the fact that us musicians in the church are just plain instrumentalists. Even our bassist, who is the sickest guy on the bass i have ever seen, does not know how to assign choir parts.

So, in essence, what happens is this; all the choir members huddle around the CD player and listen to it. Then arguments start along the vein of what each person THINKS he is hearing. I am sitting there like "There has GOT to be a better way of doing this." Then choir members go home and totally forget how they were to sing the song on Sunday.

I am not even casting blame on anyone. We are not professionals and by God's grace we will get a professional who knows what to do. In the meantime however i need to know how to assign choir parts. 

If you wanna pay my gas, and depending on what night it falls, I might come to D.C. *chuckle*  :)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 08:50:13 AM
If you wanna pay my gas, and depending on what night it falls, I might come to D.C. *chuckle*  :)

My church is in Beltsville actually. :) I guess thats still a bit of a ways off from Aberdeen (an hour or so maybe?). The thing is we sing contemporary Christian "rock" music a lot; Hillsongs, Michael W Smith, Jeremy Camp, a LOT of Israel & New Breed e.t.c so it's not strict gospel. We MAY do one or two gospel songs in a two month period but that's it.

I will talk it over with my P&W leader and see if he is amenable to calling someone outside the church.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 08:55:31 AM
My church is in Beltsville actually. :) I guess thats still a bit of a ways off from Aberdeen (an hour or so maybe?). The thing is we sing contemporary Christian "rock" music a lot; Hillsongs, Michael W Smith, Jeremy Camp, a LOT of Israel & New Breed e.t.c so it's not strict gospel. We MAY do one or two gospel songs in a two month period but that's it.

I will talk it over with my P&W leader and see if he is amenable to calling someone outside the church.


Ok, to a degree, I was kidding. only because of the distance BUT, there might be a way we could do something telephonically.  ;)

CCM stuff usually has very simple harmonies so doing those types of songs shouldn't take too long, as long as I can listen to them before hand.


Anyway, talk to your P&W leader and let's see what we can work out. I kinda miss doin' this kind of stuff, actually.  :)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 08:59:51 AM

Ok, to a degree, I was kidding. only because of the distance BUT, there might be a way we could do something telephonically.  ;)

CCM stuff usually has very simple harmonies so doing those types of songs shouldn't take too long, as long as I can listen to them before hand.


Anyway, talk to your P&W leader and let's see what we can work out. I kinda miss doin' this kind of stuff, actually.  :)

This solves my problem right here. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: under13 on May 12, 2008, 09:00:58 AM
In order to give out choir parts, you have to know how to harmonize. I guess you can learn how to harmonize by being a part of a good group, or just sit in on their rehearsals. You also must listen to songs and learn to hear the different alto and tenor parts. If you read music, you can get a hymnal and all the harmony parts will be there
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 09:01:31 AM
This solves my problem right here. Thanks. :)

PM me and we'll discuss.  ;) :)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 09:02:19 AM
Deja vu?  :-\ :D
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: SisterT on May 12, 2008, 09:34:13 AM
Deja vu?  :-\ :D

Not anymore!
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: LaylaMonroe on May 12, 2008, 09:35:00 AM


I surrrrre hope Jonathan can help, because this:



This past Sunday we had a special number. we had to play the intro like five times cuz the choir members didn't understand that the song had started. I do thank God that the song was nailed eventually, but this cannot keep going on. Choir members cannot be forgetting what part they sing and such.

...

So, in essence, what happens is this; all the choir members huddle around the CD player and listen to it. Then arguments start along the vein of what each person THINKS he is hearing. I am sitting there like "There has GOT to be a better way of doing this." Then choir members go home and totally forget how they were to sing the song on Sunday.



sounds horrible.  Sounds like a nightmare, actually....

Well fam....thats a good question,
I'm actually in the process of starting a choir...


I know you gon' let me sing lead, right?
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Redy2bUsed on May 12, 2008, 09:37:33 AM


I know you gon' let me sing lead, right?

Uhhhh Yee-ah...

*whispers to Sjon*
Hey man...when she begins to sing, turn her mic off... ;)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 09:37:53 AM

I surrrrre hope Jonathan can help, because this:



sounds horrible.  Sounds like a nightmare, actually....

I know you gon' let me sing lead, right?

It does sound like a nightmare, doesn't it?  :-\

It reads to me like they need a choir director.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 09:39:23 AM
Uhhhh Yee-ah...

*whispers to Sjon*
Hey man...when she begins to sing, turn her mic off... ;)


*gives Redy the "Waaay ahead of ya, fam." nod*  ;)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 10:03:56 AM
Hey this thread was moved. I confess that i didn't expect to get any responses here. Some of these forums need to be merged so Sjon can have more work to do. :)

Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 10:11:04 AM
Hey this thread was moved. I confess that i didn't expect to get any responses here. Some of these forums need to be merged so Sjon can have more work to do. :)

Hey man, I gots plenty work ta do!  :D
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 10:21:54 AM
Hey man, I gots plenty work ta do!  :D

No you don't man. You need to be a mod in the Lounge for a bit. THEN you'll have work to do. Everyone knows being a mod in the Piano room is easy stuff. I mean, its so easy even i could do it (hint, hint).  ;)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 10:23:53 AM
No you don't man. You need to be a mod in the Lounge for a bit. THEN you'll have work to do. Everyone knows being a mod in the Piano room is easy stuff. I mean, its so easy even i could do it (hint, hint).  ;)

Well actually, I have been tryin' to hint at a promotion.  ;) 8)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 10:32:42 AM
Well actually, I have been tryin' to hint at a promotion.  ;) 8)

Yeah, i mean, with 20,000+ posts you DO deserve a promotion of some sort.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 10:35:52 AM
Yeah, i mean, with 20,000+ posts you DO deserve a promotion of some sort.

Wanna be my agent?  ;) :D
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Redy2bUsed on May 12, 2008, 10:37:06 AM
Wanna be my agent?  ;) :D

Hold on!!
I thought I was your age....
Oh wait!

I'm your armor bearer....thats right,
Ok I'm good....
Proceed. ;)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: cas10a on May 12, 2008, 10:58:51 AM
Thanks Redy,

I understand that we don't need a choir of soloists.

This past Sunday we had a special number. we had to play the intro like five times cuz the choir members didn't understand that the song had started. I do thank God that the song was nailed eventually, but this cannot keep going on. Choir members cannot be forgetting what part they sing and such.

The fault i guess comes with the fact that us musicians in the church are just plain instrumentalists. Even our bassist, who is the sickest guy on the bass i have ever seen, does not know how to assign choir parts.

So, in essence, what happens is this; all the choir members huddle around the CD player and listen to it. Then arguments start along the vein of what each person THINKS he is hearing. I am sitting there like "There has GOT to be a better way of doing this." Then choir members go home and totally forget how they were to sing the song on Sunday.
I am not even casting blame on anyone. We are not professionals and by God's grace we will get a professional who knows what to do. In the meantime however i need to know how to assign choir parts. 

Fenix...I'm not understanding? If you can play the music by ear and/or read music you should be able to pick out the choir parts...

- Playing by ear, listen to what the choir is singing, the basic chords off the melody will usually give you the choir parts...sometimes as musicians we tend to just listen to what the music is doing, instead of the basic vocals.

- If you read music the harmony is in most cases written in the music...

When I teach a song to a choir I not only write out the basic instrument chords for my purposes...but I write out the notes for the vocals also, broken down by section...soprano/alto/etc.,...It helps if I write all parts down, so when I'm teaching I don't have to fumble trying to find each part again and there is no discussion because the parts are already written.

I usually let the choir hear the entire song 1 time through...

Then I start by teaching the parts just singing and playing the notes that were written for each part...no accompaniment.  I don't bring in the instruments fully until everyone has their parts.  Sure the choir may sometimes forget the parts, but repetition of each section singing the correct notes is what helps them to remember.


 
 
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 11:04:39 AM
Fenix...I'm not understanding? If you can play the music by ear and/or read music you should be able to pick out the choir parts...



Thank you so much for your help. Here is my dilemma; i DO read music AND play by ear but i have never been taught what the different choir voices are. I frankly do not know what the soprano is, or what the alto is and all that. So, yeah, i can definitely listen out for the parts if i knew what to listen out for.

I need to probably google what the different choir parts are.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: cas10a on May 12, 2008, 11:49:17 AM
Thank you so much for your help. Here is my dilemma; i DO read music AND play by ear but i have never been taught what the different choir voices are. I frankly do not know what the soprano is, or what the alto is and all that. So, yeah, i can definitely listen out for the parts if i knew what to listen out for.

I need to probably google what the different choir parts are.

I'll post an example later today...
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 12:13:48 PM
Hold on!!
I thought I was your age....
Oh wait!

I'm your armor bearer....thats right,
Ok I'm good....
Proceed. ;)

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


STOP IT, MAN!!!!  :D :D
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 12:14:44 PM
Thank you so much for your help. Here is my dilemma; i DO read music AND play by ear but i have never been taught what the different choir voices are. I frankly do not know what the soprano is, or what the alto is and all that. So, yeah, i can definitely listen out for the parts if i knew what to listen out for.

I need to probably google what the different choir parts are.

That's why you need to call me, bruh. ;) :D
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 12:50:32 PM
That's why you need to call me, bruh. ;) :D

I will PM you later in the day. Despite my many posts today i am REALLY busy. :) I have the advantage of two screens so i can switch between doing stuff.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 12, 2008, 12:52:45 PM
I will PM you later in the day. Despite my many posts today i am REALLY busy. :) I have the advantage of two screens so i can switch between doing stuff.

Aight.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: vtguy84 on May 12, 2008, 06:33:20 PM
In order to give out choir parts, you have to know how to harmonize. I guess you can learn how to harmonize by being a part of a good group, or just sit in on their rehearsals. You also must listen to songs and learn to hear the different alto and tenor parts. If you read music, you can get a hymnal and all the harmony parts will be there

Sadly the part in bold does not work.  They have to be taught....and for some.....they just need to find a new ministry :)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: under13 on May 12, 2008, 07:49:55 PM
Sadly the part in bold does not work.  They have to be taught....and for some.....they just need to find a new ministry :)

Didnt mean for the choir to do that, I meant that as a way for him to learn how to hamonize. That is how I'm learning and it is working. once he learns, he can teach them how to find their own part.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: betnich on May 13, 2008, 11:32:12 AM
Thank you so much for your help. Here is my dilemma; i DO read music AND play by ear but i have never been taught what the different choir voices are. I frankly do not know what the soprano is, or what the alto is and all that. So, yeah, i can definitely listen out for the parts if i knew what to listen out for.

I need to probably google what the different choir parts are.

Soprano - what the higher-pitched women sing. Usually the melody. Wide range, from Middle C up.
If some people in your choir can't/won't sing parts, you can always have them sing the melody.
And you don't have sing the entire song in 3-part harmony. Lots of Gospel songs start with unison melody at a lower range, then break into lead/parts on the chorus. Speaking of lead, you only need a few lead singers - they can take turns, singing before/after the main vocals. Usual for Gospel, much less so in simpler CCM Praise/Worship.

Alto - Harmony part right under the melody, usually a 3rd or 4th lower - the middle note in a 3-note RH chord.
From about G or A below Middle C to the C above that.
Usually sung by the stouter/older ladies (like me - actually I'm 2nd sop.). In Gospel, Altos can get down into Tenor territory. (some Women in your group may be Tenors)

Tenors - The higher Male voices. In a RH 3-note chord, the bottom note.
Your younger guys (and the occasional girl) will be the higher Tenors, while most will sing in the Baritone range (guy equivalent of 2nd Sop. - about Bb2/C3 to Middle C or D - this is where most people in the Congregation sing)
Tenors usually go from the C below Middle C to about F or G above Middle C, though in Gospel they often go above that.
And then there's Falsetto, which can get even higher...

Bass is not often used in contemp. Gospel, but when it is it often doubles the Bass line (lowest note in pedals or LH)
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: Fenix on May 13, 2008, 11:43:02 AM
Soprano - what the higher-pitched women sing. Usually the melody. Wide range, from Middle C up.
If some people in your choir can't/won't sing parts, you can always have them sing the melody.
And you don't have sing the entire song in 3-part harmony. Lots of Gospel songs start with unison melody at a lower range, then break into lead/parts on the chorus. Speaking of lead, you only need a few lead singers - they can take turns, singing before/after the main vocals. Usual for Gospel, much less so in simpler CCM Praise/Worship.

Alto - Harmony part right under the melody, usually a 3rd or 4th lower - the middle note in a 3-note RH chord.
From about G or A below Middle C to the C above that.
Usually sung by the stouter/older ladies (like me - actually I'm 2nd sop.). In Gospel, Altos can get down into Tenor territory. (some Women in your group may be Tenors)

Tenors - The higher Male voices. In a RH 3-note chord, the bottom note.
Your younger guys (and the occasional girl) will be the higher Tenors, while most will sing in the Baritone range (guy equivalent of 2nd Sop. - about Bb2/C3 to Middle C or D - this is where most people in the Congregation sing)
Tenors usually go from the C below Middle C to about F or G above Middle C, though in Gospel they often go above that.
And then there's Falsetto, which can get even higher...

Bass is not often used in contemp. Gospel, but when it is it often doubles the Bass line (lowest note in pedals or LH)

This is excellent. Thank you SO much!!!!

Can you please explain the whole C3, F4, G5 and so on? I think these are octave designations but i am not too sure.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 13, 2008, 12:11:38 PM
This is excellent. Thank you SO much!!!!

Can you please explain the whole C3, F4, G5 and so on? I think these are octave designations but i am not too sure.

You are correct; it's kind of like calling out moves on a chess board (not that I can do that). You never PM'd me.
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: cas10a on May 13, 2008, 06:53:42 PM
I like the explanation of the parts SJ...

Here is an example...the choir parts for the most part follow the chords of the song, but is not necessarily what the instruments will play...Just thought this might help, it's a pretty basic song thats not to hard to teach also...

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,56155.msg550910.html#msg550910
Title: Re: How do i audition choir members?
Post by: betnich on May 13, 2008, 11:26:47 PM
This is excellent. Thank you SO much!!!!

Can you please explain the whole C3, F4, G5 and so on? I think these are octave designations but i am not too sure.

Yes, they're octaves - sort of like MIDI note numbers. I refer to notes above or below Middle C because sometimes I get the octaves mixed up - I believe C3 is Middle C, someone correct me if I have that wrong...