LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: Fenix on May 12, 2008, 08:13:50 AM
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We are trying to write a "theme" song for our church and we need some horn parts. THe only problem is, whenever i play horns, i tend to play it like i am playing piano and it doesn't translate well. Here is the "groove" of the progression;
LH/RH
E / E G B D- Hold for four beats.
E / E G B C#- Hold for four beats.
How do i write up a simple horns part?
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Well, to help you get started, since your chords are in E minor, just start messing around with some notes in the E minor scale.
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Well, to help you get started, since your chords are in E minor, just start messing around with some notes in the E minor scale.
Thanks T.
My issue is that playing the horns is a TOTALLY different thing altogether. Because i play like a piano player,
I am going to have to listen to some Earth, Wind and Fire stuff. THos guys have good horns stuff. Some other jazz standards will probably help.
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I have some notes on horn parts I have to look for them, however you do their notes as chords one note for each horn(ex. trombone, sax and trumpet) The trombone represents the bass, so that one is easy. I'll try to find my notes and post.
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I have some notes on horn parts I have to look for them, however you do their notes as chords one note for each horn(ex. trombone, sax and trumpet) The trombone represents the bass, so that one is easy. I'll try to find my notes and post.
Thanks a lot. I should clarify that i will be playing the horns as a voice on the keyboard.
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Here are the notes I have for each horn.
Natural Tone
CDEFGAB(Trombone)
DEF#GABC#(Trumpet)
BbCDEbFGA(Sax)
Ex. if the trombone plays a C the trumpet would play D and the sax would play Bb.
If your trombone plays C# the trumpet would play D# and the sax would play B.
I hope this helps I've had these notes for years and used them with horn players in the past.
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If this isn't exactly what you want, then I suggest you do what T stated. What I do at times is thinK of a secondary bass run or melody to use for the horn parts. Just play back what you and the guys record and listen, so you can just about hear your horns.
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Thanks a lot. I should clarify that i will be playing the horns as a voice on the keyboard.
2 ways to approach that -
1 - 3-note chords. Good for rhythmic 'punches'. Play sparingly, lots of rests. Don't play every beat, or sustain them like an organ player. Think 'offbeat' or call/response (play in the breaks between vocals). As for voicing on the keyboard, RH, not too high - Trombone can get up to about C above middle C, so don't get the lowest note of your chords much above that. Sax can take the middle notes, and Trumpet the top line if you ever write them out for real players. Of course if you are playing it on the Synth it can be fattened up with a "Horn Section" type of sound...
2 - Do melodies or countermelodies in octaves.
Think Blues Brothers - Have been listening to Kirk Franklin's HE REIGNS for ideas...
;)
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2 ways to approach that -
1 - 3-note chords. Good for rhythmic 'punches'. Play sparingly, lots of rests. Don't play every beat, or sustain them like an organ player. Think 'offbeat' or call/response (play in the breaks between vocals). As for voicing on the keyboard, RH, not too high - Trombone can get up to about C above middle C, so don't get the lowest note of your chords much above that. Sax can take the middle notes, and Trumpet the top line if you ever write them out for real players. Of course if you are playing it on the Synth it can be fattened up with a "Horn Section" type of sound...
2 - Do melodies or countermelodies in octaves.
Think Blues Brothers - Have been listening to Kirk Franklin's HE REIGNS for ideas...
;)
Thanks a lot. I have made a recording on my keyboard of what i came up with. Now if only i knew how to get it on my computer...
So what i am doing is using a "Horns Section" synth and i am sticking to the range of G below middle C to the C above middle C.
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I also find this to be quite challenging myself.
I'll have to try out the suggestions..But I think I'll need cat-fingers to do that stuff!!
oh, doesn't 1 have to use the pitch bend alot as well when it comes to this part?
I'm still getting the hang of using that wheel! :P
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I also find this to be quite challenging myself.
I'll have to try out the suggestions..But I think I'll need cat-fingers to do that stuff!!
oh, doesn't 1 have to use the pitch bend alot as well when it comes to this part?
I'm still getting the hang of using that wheel! :P
Man i don't EVER touch that pitch blend wheel. I distrust it a lot. In fact, the only sound i ever want from my board is a piano sound and strings sound. I have just recently been trying to use some brass or horns. I think for gospel music purposes you have to play brass in a funky style; short phrases and a lot of staccato notes here and there.
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Man i don't EVER touch that pitch blend wheel. I distrust it a lot. In fact, the only sound i ever want from my board is a piano sound and strings sound. I have just recently been trying to use some brass or horns. I think for gospel music purposes you have to play brass in a funky style; short phrases and a lot of staccato notes here and there.
Funky , staccato style, I have to agree with.. 8)
But man, U've got2 try out using that pitch bend..I'm actually integrating it into my playing more & more often to make up my own style...
But then I have to use it differently when playing with some1 else..
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Funky , staccato style, I have to agree with.. 8)
But man, U've got2 try out using that pitch bend..I'm actually integrating it into my playing more & more often to make up my own style...
But then I have to use it differently when playing with some1 else..
Horn parts are tricky, but the key is to listen to songs and try to emulate the sound of the horn you want.(ie trumpet, sax or bone) If your doing the brass section, best to use a patch that sounds full.
If you do pitch bend it's best for sythn sounds. Doing it to horn sounds can distort the sound some.
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Horn parts are tricky, but the key is to listen to songs and try to emulate the sound of the horn you want.(ie trumpet, sax or bone) If your doing the brass section, best to use a patch that sounds full.
If you do pitch bend it's best for sythn sounds. Doing it to horn sounds can distort the sound some.
I've been listening to Kenny G, some 90s stuff where they use lotsa sax & brass & various other artists of other instruments.
& the Casio has a voice that is exactly spot on with Kenny & sounds full too!! (Tone #163 Tenor Sax) is 1 of them..& I realized that there were some notes I couldn't get to sound exactly like him unless if I used the Pitch Bend feature.
Forgot the song name, but it's in the key of G.
& then there is the jazz guitar as well, I also find myself having to use the Pitch Bend every now & again..
& for you Fenny, you said you make sure you keep away from that feature, once you actually know how its related to the keys, you should have little problem with it after using it a couple of times.
I know this 1 dude who used to bend it to 8..sometimes 10..
I normally bend it to 2 so that I justuse the bend instead of trilling notes manually.
where are all the synth cats..we need your input here..tell us how you use that bend.
MrAndrew is giving in his share.. 8)
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Maybe i will start using the pitch blend. The main reason i don't use it is cuz in church i primarily only play the Piano sounds. I have only just recently started using electric piano sounds even. My bassist had to persuade me to try and use other sounds apart from Full Grand Piano.
My issue with sing horns is that you have to be REALLY careful so it doesn't sound muddy. Even using a voice like full brass section on the board sounds cheesy IMO cuz it assumes that the whole band is playing the same note which is not often the case. When you do play chords, it sounds slightly muddy.
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Find something of your own & let us know what you come up with..I'd like to know what sounds you use etc..also look into the..i think it's called synth pads or something..there are voices which are not as muddy & are just the right balance & you can actually play full chords with them.
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I do horns a lot when I'm doing soul and r&b gigs. The easiest thing to do is octaves. Having flexible sounds is really helpful. On the Motif, they have horns with the fall off after you release the note, Horns that crescendo, etc. If you're really serious, get a breath controller then you can control the dynamics and articulations with your breathing like horn players do. Oh, for me having a board with synth keys also helps. Not sure if any of my babbling is of any assistance to you or not. :D
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I do horns a lot when I'm doing soul and r&b gigs. The easiest thing to do is octaves. Having flexible sounds is really helpful. On the Motif, they have horns with the fall off after you release the note, Horns that crescendo, etc. If you're really serious, get a breath controller then you can control the dynamics and articulations with your breathing like horn players do. Oh, for me having a board with synth keys also helps. Not sure if any of my babbling is of any assistance to you or not. :D
Well i do do octaves (doodoo...funny :))
I am really interested in that breath controller thing you mentioned. Is it like a pedal you attach to the board?
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When I do the horns sounds I use them more to set an atmosphere, think of Miles, Chris Botti and Rick Bruan. I start with the chords and just play want I'm feeling at the time. For the full brass section I never chord I just play single notes.
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I've been listening to Kenny G, some 90s stuff where they use lotsa sax & brass & various other artists of other instruments.
& the Casio has a voice that is exactly spot on with Kenny & sounds full too!! (Tone #163 Tenor Sax) is 1 of them..& I realized that there were some notes I couldn't get to sound exactly like him unless if I used the Pitch Bend feature.
Forgot the song name, but it's in the key of G.
& then there is the jazz guitar as well, I also find myself having to use the Pitch Bend every now & again..
& for you Fenny, you said you make sure you keep away from that feature, once you actually know how its related to the keys, you should have little problem with it after using it a couple of times.
I know this 1 dude who used to bend it to 8..sometimes 10..
I normally bend it to 2 so that I justuse the bend instead of trilling notes manually.
where are all the synth cats..we need your input here..tell us how you use that bend.
MrAndrew is giving in his share.. 8)
I like synth sounds for certain songs I compose or when doing solo's. Remember I'm just learning to play gospel so when playing more of a jazzy sound you tend to use a lot of the sound patches on your board.
With the guitar you will need to use the pitch bend to get more of an authentic sound.
Musallio you need to listen to Boney James, Kirk Whalum, Marion Meadows, Everrette Harp and Gerald Albright just to name a few for a more contemporary sounds. I really don't listen to Kenny G.
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I do horns a lot when I'm doing soul and r&b gigs. The easiest thing to do is octaves. Having flexible sounds is really helpful. On the Motif, they have horns with the fall off after you release the note, Horns that crescendo, etc. If you're really serious, get a breath controller then you can control the dynamics and articulations with your breathing like horn players do. Oh, for me having a board with synth keys also helps. Not sure if any of my babbling is of any assistance to you or not. :D
Correction my friend..1st of all, U were not babbling!! 2ndly, the stuff is really useful 8) I had octaves at the back of my mind because, yes, they're the most common.
A board with synth keys is certainly the best in this case..I can't imagine what it'd be like using a weighted keys board to do this stuff :-\
Please explain to me what a fall off is? could it be that sound that sounds like the voice is bending even though you haven't used the bend on the board?
Well i do do octaves (doodoo...funny :))
I am really interested in that breath controller thing you mentioned. Is it like a pedal you attach to the board?
I should quit this place before your character is merged onto me! :D
I like synth sounds for certain songs I compose or when doing solo's. Remember I'm just learning to play gospel so when playing more of a jazzy sound you tend to use a lot of the sound patches on your board.
With the guitar you will need to use the pitch bend to get more of an authentic sound.
Musallio you need to listen to Boney James, Kirk Whalum, Marion Meadows, Everrette Harp and Gerald Albright just to name a few for a more contemporary sounds. I really don't listen to Kenny G.
Thanks for the suggestions MrAndrew..
I do listen to Boney James & Kirk Whalum..am always on the lookout for their latest releases...
I also listen to a handful of other South African jazz artists, most of them are guitar & bass..
Jamey Aebersold's website provides a comprehensive list of recommended jazz artists to listen to for various instruments:
Here are the Suggested Listenings (http://www.jazzbooks.com/miva/documents/handbook/07_suggested_listening.pdf).
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couple things depends on your board,can you layer a velocity sensitive patch? on my Korg M1 there's a patch called Chicago which layers horns over piano-you have to really lay into it to get horns-actually does really well.split your horn voices across the keys in the ranges somebody else mentioned;like trombone or bari sax low,other saxes mid range,and trumpets on top-but dont go too high(3-4 octaves max). it's okay to have some sax/trumpet overlay-not just the whole range.for example-listen to tower of power "you're still a young man",hear the bari sax,the other saxes and brass spread out.don't forget a volume pedal-just like a swell pedal on the organ-punch it in/out-works good if you can layer 2 boards also by midi-have fun
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couple things depends on your board,can you layer a velocity sensitive patch? on my Korg M1 there's a patch called Chicago which layers horns over piano-you have to really lay into it to get horns-actually does really well.split your horn voices across the keys in the ranges somebody else mentioned;like trombone or bari sax low,other saxes mid range,and trumpets on top-but dont go too high(3-4 octaves max). it's okay to have some sax/trumpet overlay-not just the whole range.for example-listen to tower of power "you're still a young man",hear the bari sax,the other saxes and brass spread out.don't forget a volume pedal-just like a swell pedal on the organ-punch it in/out-works good if you can layer 2 boards also by midi-have fun
This is 1 of the more compelling reasons why I would have to upgrade to another board--because mine can only work with maximum 3 sounds when layered & split simultaneously.
What is the maximum voices that other boards can handle? & what are the respective polyphonies?
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This is 1 of the more compelling reasons why I would have to upgrade to another board--because mine can only work with maximum 3 sounds when layered & split simultaneously.
What is the maximum voices that other boards can handle? & what are the respective polyphonies?
I think the Motifs can handle up to 4 voices layered when in Performance mode. I really have to get into performance mode, it is SO sweet.
Dude, watch this video of the Motif. So blessedly sweet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGS_O0LRnCA
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I think the Motifs can handle up to 4 voices layered when in Performance mode. I really have to get into performance mode, it is SO sweet.
Dude, watch this video of the Motif. So blessedly sweet.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGS_O0LRnCA[/url]
Nice..Nice..Thanks Fenix.. 8) that sounded delicious :)
but only 4 voices >:( Might as well stick to my Casio then ..just had to mention the name coz I know some1 who can't stand casio... :)