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Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: diverse379 on May 14, 2008, 07:17:10 PM

Title: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on May 14, 2008, 07:17:10 PM
often i find myself on the organ playing away everything going fine then I have to play a song that I never played on the organ before and i find I have to play it piano style
because my left hand is not ready to play the chords smoothly

well now what I do is as soon As I have learned a song on the piano
I automatically begin to learn how to play it with left hand chords
and right hand melody

this way you are training yourself to be able to play the organ as spontaneously as you would your piano or keyboard.

maybe I am not a true organist but there are certain songs and keys that I find it frustrating to play on the organ

but now that I take the time to take a learned song and adapt it to the organ when at home
I think it helps me a great deal in handling myself on the organ

some things to get you started

learn how to play simple one four five moves

with your left hand using good voice leading
find a harmony book that teaches you this and just play the chord in your left hand
since they are simple triads they will fit well under a more advanced chord in your right hand

I took a harmony book from school
and I am learning all the progressions
in my left hand
this way my right hand is free to improvise over the changes
since it is a classical book
the changes revolve around 1 5 4 and some 2 and 6 chords

you will be surprised how many songs can be played with only these chords and nothing else

hope this helps some of you
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: musallio on May 15, 2008, 09:11:24 AM
Thanks for the lightbulb..I shall take your advice to heart.. :)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: themidiroom on May 15, 2008, 12:14:08 PM
I'm usually okay once I get beyond the fact that the song sounds a bit weird on organ compared to piano.
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: goodtoknow on May 15, 2008, 07:27:31 PM
HEY BRUH, YOU THINK YOU CAN SEND ME SOME EXCERPTS FROM SOME OF THOSE BOOKS YOU HAVE!!!! i THANK YA AND GOD BLESS



often i find myself on the organ playing away everything going fine then I have to play a song that I never played on the organ before and i find I have to play it piano style
because my left hand is not ready to play the chords smoothly

well now what I do is as soon As I have learned a song on the piano
I automatically begin to learn how to play it with left hand chords
and right hand melody

this way you are training yourself to be able to play the organ as spontaneously as you would your piano or keyboard.

maybe I am not a true organist but there are certain songs and keys that I find it frustrating to play on the organ

but now that I take the time to take a learned song and adapt it to the organ when at home
I think it helps me a great deal in handling myself on the organ

some things to get you started

learn how to play simple one four five moves

with your left hand using good voice leading
find a harmony book that teaches you this and just play the chord in your left hand
since they are simple triads they will fit well under a more advanced chord in your right hand

I took a harmony book from school
and I am learning all the progressions
in my left hand
this way my right hand is free to improvise over the changes
since it is a classical book
the changes revolve around 1 5 4 and some 2 and 6 chords

you will be surprised how many songs can be played with only these chords and nothing else

hope this helps some of you
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: rayjohnson83 on May 15, 2008, 10:18:42 PM
HEY BRUH, YOU THINK YOU CAN SEND ME SOME EXCERPTS FROM SOME OF THOSE BOOKS YOU HAVE!!!! i THANK YA AND GOD BLESS



cosign ;D
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on May 15, 2008, 11:04:31 PM
HEY BRUH, YOU THINK YOU CAN SEND ME SOME EXCERPTS FROM SOME OF THOSE BOOKS YOU HAVE!!!! i THANK YA AND GOD BLESS




i will put something together tomorrow
i may put it in another thread


Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: meadowman on May 31, 2008, 12:12:00 AM
This is a really good post!...helps me out a lot
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on May 31, 2008, 08:40:00 AM
the post classical theory for left hand voicings  series 1 and 2 
is a direct result of the above post
There will be approximately 20 parts to this series
it starts out really basic and grows exponentially
Title: !
Post by: Virtuenow on June 22, 2008, 11:41:51 PM
Thanks for the lightbulb..I shall take your advice to heart.. :)

Cool pic Musalio.  Could you explain whats going on w/your mum, dad and baby mus?!  Where were you all? 

Anyhoo, this is a good post.  I am sort of a beginner (not really anymore, but can I get the beginner pass?), and I still have not learned how to play the organ at all.  Although there is an organ at the church and I have been questioned about it.  Now...

I have a few questions:

1. How does the organ differ from the piano? 
2. How do those mysterious footpedals factor in? 
3. How often do you have to use them.  Is the transition from piano to organ rough or smooth??
Title: Re: !
Post by: diverse379 on June 23, 2008, 07:46:25 AM
Cool pic Musalio.  Could you explain whats going on w/your mum, dad and baby mus?!  Where were you all? 

Anyhoo, this is a good post.  I am sort of a beginner (not really anymore, but can I get the beginner pass?), and I still have not learned how to play the organ at all.  Although there is an organ at the church and I have been questioned about it.  Now...

I have a few questions:

1. How does the organ differ from the piano? 
2. How do those mysterious footpedals factor in? 
3. How often do you have to use them.  Is the transition from piano to organ rough or smooth??

I hope I can answer this question I will answer question one which will really answer question two
and part of question three


The organ is different from the piano
first because the tone sustains as long as you hold the note and releases as soon as you take your hand off

what this means to you is that since there is no pedal to sustain notes while your hands are of the keys
then that means you have to learn how to keep the notes connected  this is what will give you a smooth sound
sometimes you want to keep the notes choppy this is a matter of style


at the most advanced levels of organ playing
you will be playing the pedals with your feet

your left hand will be playing chords and your right hand will be playing either melodic chords
or melodies in intervals or single notes

if you have never played organ before
the best way to start out

is to set up the drawbars  (those brown and white levers you see there should be four sets of nine)


set them up so that you can have a strong bass sound on one manual  ()keyboard)
and a nice sound for chords on the other manual

ther are many ways to play an organ
right now I am exploring theatre style and classical organ
which is more about making your organ sound like an orchestra


I have at times explored heavily brooklyn style
which is really like playing rag time on the organ

to get to those foot pedals

they are your bass notes

so your feet will be playing bass lines on the organ

if you have never seen an organist do it
then your first time on the organ you will probably think it is impossible


but it is not it just takes time to get comfortable


here is my personal recommendation on how to get to a decent organ ability



first few weeks

play the organ like two keyboards

if you pull out the first three or four drawbars on the upper left
then you will have a nice strong bass sound and a balanced sound to play both hands on the upper manual

skip the next set of draw bars and pull out
the two white ones and the next black white and black
 and the last white about half way out

(experiment with leaving that last one in or out)

play with these two combinations
dont worry about the pedals

do use the volume pedal
and the leslie switch

to give you that whirly sound

points to note
you have to do your best to keep the sound connected the first thing I notice about keyboard players who try to play organ is they sound too choppy
connect the sound by trying to keep fingers in contact with the keys
as you go from chord to chord

next step

pull out one of the two brown draw bars
that sit in the middle of the two sets of nine

 ( try the left one first
pull it about 3/4 of the way out

now as you play the bass lines
tap on the pedal of the key you are in

just a short tap

try this over one of those devotional songs like cant nobody do me like jesus

the pedal will be acting as a drum beat almost
not necessarily like a bass note
if you keep it short enough
remember you are still playing the bass line with your left hand


this is a technique i see a lot of older organists use
and they will  sometimes move the bass note to whatever chord they are on


next step
sit on the bench so that your leg hangs over the G pedal
if you are about my size 5'11
it will appear that your pedals will line up with the lower manual

what you do at this level
is play the pedals to follow your left hand bass notes

your feet will be clumsy at this point
but your hands will cover your sloppy feet

and eventually your feet will be able to follow your hands

when they can it will be time to make the feet independent

to do this
begin to use your left hand to switich the leslie
as you play
switch it ever verse or ever two or three measures

this is called speed switching
and it will help you pay attention that your feet are holding down the groove properly

how do you play the pedals?
with your toes
and your heels

practice first just using your toes

this is actually the first way you learn on classical organ to play everything with your toes
then later you learn to use your heels on the white pedals and your toes on the black notes


ok now for the next stage

play the pedals with your feet
and take your two hands and play them on the lower manual
the left hand can duplicate what your right hand does

do this for now so that your left hand will become stronger at playing chords
since you will be using two hands on the manuals

you should use a lighter setting
maybe just pull out the two white ones

it will take a few months for your left hand to get strong enough to play songs on it's own
but be patient

what to do with your left hand once it gets strong

this is a loaded question and I cannot really answer that for you


you can play two note chords one note thirds and sevenths
three note clusters

four note voicings

partial notes to phatten the chord in the right hand

you can play single note melody in the right hand or in octaves

get a good book on organ playing

or some dvds on organ to give you a good starting place

good luck to you



Title: Re: !
Post by: jgause2 on June 23, 2008, 08:05:50 AM

get a good book on organ playing

or some dvds on organ to give you a good starting place

good luck to you



u have any good recommendations??
Title: Re: !
Post by: diverse379 on June 23, 2008, 10:39:40 AM

u have any good recommendations??

I have a couple of recommendations it all depends on what you are looking to achieve
if you just want to sound good on the hammond

then try complete hammond

there are many others I could recommend but like I said it depends on what you are looking to achieve

for example if you can read then i would recommend the harold gleason method of organ playing

excellent for all around organ technique


Title: Re: !
Post by: musallio on June 23, 2008, 02:36:31 PM
Cool pic Musalio.  Could you explain whats going on w/your mum, dad and baby mus?!  Where were you all? 


Hey Virtue(http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/01.gif)

Long time no see from U..god 2 c & hear from U 8)

You really want me to explain what's happening there? Ok, I'll have to ask mum or dad when they're up tomorrow.
1 explanation I got from them was that they just went hunting at this game reserve & they had the option to dress up as Khoi Sans, hence that look & daddio carrying the bow & arrows on his back(http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif)

I don't know whether to believe it or not, but my dad tells me I saved his life that day: A rattle snake was creeping about 3 feet behind him while he was aiming at a rabbit not very far. Fortunately for him, my mum had left me to crawl around, so I saw this rattle & startin laughing at it (in my most babyish chuckle..hehehe(http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif))...The rattle saw that I was not budging a bit & it cowardly turned around when I reached out my chubby lil hands to give it a whisk (as I would do with our neighbor's lion cubs..If Mike Tyson really wanted to afford to keep a tiger pet, he should have emigrated to here :))..Mum says I cried hysterically when that rattle pulled out on me(http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/08.gif) (so much for an enconter with a rattle itself! >:()

Anyway, mum says was it not for me being friendly with that poisonpisser, daddy would have reacted in a manner we don't even want to imagine & he would be... :(

[color=]Ok,  I hope Fenbox & C$$ don't read this!![/color]
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on June 23, 2008, 07:19:24 PM
great story

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: musallio on June 23, 2008, 09:08:16 PM
great story



It wasn't so great  for the fam because they all think I'm alive just by His Grace! :D
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: Virtuenow on June 23, 2008, 09:53:08 PM
Musallio, thanks for the welcome back and the fresh new story.  My computer was down for a while and I was really very busy w/work.  But I missed LGM!  I learned a few new songs in the meantime and also learned that I still need help!  Especially w/picking out bass lines and ad libbing.  Since then I am now teaching a small childrens choir.  This is a first for me and I will have a lot of questions coming up.  It is unbelievable teaching songs to people and trying to teach harmony. 

Now back to you.  This is quite an adventurous story you have shared.  I can't believe a 'lil tiny baby saved his papa's life like that.  What a warrior/cute baby!

Thanks Diverse379, great explanation there.  Who woulda' thunk you would answer all of my questions--and give a step-by-step. 

A few follow-up questions:

Do you use both feet on the pedals?  Why are there two layers of keys on the organ.  Do the bottom ones have a higher pitch (like the first octave on a piano)?  What is "doing a Leslie"?  You said you should do something w/leslie every 3 measures.  I have no idea what that means.  I did, however, notice that on youtube clips people are always moving their left hand and switching something while playing the organ.  It is quite distracting--especially since I don't know what they are doing!
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: musallio on June 24, 2008, 05:05:22 AM
Musallio, thanks for the welcome back and the fresh new story.  My computer was down for a while and I was really very busy w/work.  But I missed LGM!  I learned a few new songs in the meantime and also learned that I still need help!  Especially w/picking out bass lines and ad libbing.  Since then I am now teaching a small childrens choir.  This is a first for me and I will have a lot of questions coming up.  It is unbelievable teaching songs to people and trying to teach harmony. 

Now back to you.  This is quite an adventurous story you have shared.  I can't believe a 'lil tiny baby saved his papa's life like that.  What a warrior/cute baby!

Thanks Diverse379, great explanation there.  Who woulda' thunk you would answer all of my questions--and give a step-by-step. 

A few follow-up questions:

Do you use both feet on the pedals?  Why are there two layers of keys on the organ.  Do the bottom ones have a higher pitch (like the first octave on a piano)?  What is "doing a Leslie"?  You said you should do something w/leslie every 3 measures.  I have no idea what that means.  I did, however, notice that on youtube clips people are always moving their left hand and switching something while playing the organ.  It is quite distracting--especially since I don't know what they are doing!



Yeah, I always try by all means to hide the fact that I am a true warrior--one of the very few (if any) still roaming the surburbia of South Africa...
To keep true to my warrior-hood :P I try to make a biennial trip to Central Africa's forests to go & wrestle with some of the fiercest serpents in the continent..I really go there by faith..(I should post up some pics of me handling some of those 3metre cobras(http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/33.gif).
But this 1 time,  I felt really offended when the police manhandled me when I boarded a plane in that attire--they accused me of "public indecency" >:( SO much for "our treasured heritage & being proud of our culture" >:( Anyway, they confiscated my bushbuck leather wrap & gave me some cheap cotton rags >:(
Anyway, that's just a short story of my life :)

I like people like you Virtue--you ask really good questions & people like Diverse come up with excellent responses 8)

Thanks for everything Diverse..
Keep the questions coming Virtue..we all reap the benefits 8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on June 24, 2008, 07:28:12 AM
Musallio, thanks for the welcome back and the fresh new story.  My computer was down for a while and I was really very busy w/work.  But I missed LGM!  I learned a few new songs in the meantime and also learned that I still need help!  Especially w/picking out bass lines and ad libbing.  Since then I am now teaching a small childrens choir.  This is a first for me and I will have a lot of questions coming up.  It is unbelievable teaching songs to people and trying to teach harmony. 

Now back to you.  This is quite an adventurous story you have shared.  I can't believe a 'lil tiny baby saved his papa's life like that.  What a warrior/cute baby!

Thanks Diverse379, great explanation there.  Who woulda' thunk you would answer all of my questions--and give a step-by-step. 

A few follow-up questions:

Do you use both feet on the pedals?  Why are there two layers of keys on the organ.  Do the bottom ones have a higher pitch (like the first octave on a piano)?  What is "doing a Leslie"?  You said you should do something w/leslie every 3 measures.  I have no idea what that means.  I did, however, notice that on youtube clips people are always moving their left hand and switching something while playing the organ.  It is quite distracting--especially since I don't know what they are doing!
wow good questions

the two manuals (what you called layers are usually the same on a hammond
unless you have a B3 or a C3 in that case the upper manual has the ability to do some funky little things like percussion and harmonics  for soloing

but aside from that they are identical

on a pipe organ or a rogers or allen organ
the manuals are different because they have different sound sets

one manual is called a great the other a swell
some organs have four manuals
where the others are called
solo and choir

the organ was made to be able to duplicate an orchestra the hammond was invented to duplicate the pipe organ


so you can set the organs up like you want


the setting I gave you
will almost function like a the continuation of a piano

you control the octave of the manuals
by pulling out the drawbars
the first draw bar the brown one is the lowest pitch
the first white one is an octave above that one
the next white one is an octave above that
and each successive white drawbar
sounds an octave higher

so if you have one manual with the first brown pulled out
you can play a deeper sound  in your left hand
and if you want to play chords you will have to go higher up on the organ to play them without sounding muddy

if you start with the first white drawbar
you can play bigger chords without sounding muddy

remember there are nine drawbars
and many many combination

start with pulling out one brown on one manual and the white on the other

then begin to add drawbars little by little to start to experiment with your sound
when i say little by little
i mean pull one out centimeter by centimeter dont pull them all the way out


pedals>>
two feet or one
traditional organ teaches you to play both feet

i play with both feet on the pipe organ
but i tend to stick to one foot on the hammond
because my right foot keeps bumping
the the volume pedal

that is another thing
you should have a foot on the volume pedal bumping it a little to create the groove

leslie

the speaker that is attached to the organ is usually a leslie but not always

and if it is a good one like a 147 or a 144
it will have a motor that spins

when you switch that motor on
the motor spins and the sound swirls
and if you have your upper drawbaras pulle out
like the last white one and a few of the brown ones pulled out a little
maybe a half inch or so

you will hear that characteristic
hammond whirly swirly sound
sorry i dont know how else to describe it

usually you will have the switch on at all times during preacher chords
during shouts

and you may switch it on during climactic points in a song
or during the chorus and off during the verse

or switch it on during a word in the song
it takes the motor a minute to speed up so you have to switch it a little bit  before you need it

speed switching is when yo turn it on and off so the motor never gets to full speed and never actually stops it is sort of in between

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: Virtuenow on June 24, 2008, 10:18:50 PM
Diverse I appreciate all the awesome info, I am going to have to put this plan into action. The next time I am in the same room with the "mysterious" organ, I must approach.  Boy, this will be a challenge.  Drawbars, leslies and ...what else did you say (*back to my notes*)??  Here goes!
 
Musallio...from rattlesnakes to cobras?  Don't tell me you are one of those snake dancers (w/shouting music in the background and all).  Dost thou tempt the tempter??  (Ooops!)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on June 25, 2008, 06:10:07 AM
Diverse I appreciate all the awesome info, I am going to have to put this plan into action. The next time I am in the same room with the "mysterious" organ, I must approach.  Boy, this will be a challenge.  Drawbars, leslies and ...what else did you say (*back to my notes*)??  Here goes!
 
Musallio...from rattlesnakes to cobras?  Don't tell me you are one of those snake dancers (w/shouting music in the background and all).  Dost thou tempt the tempter??  (Ooops!)
you are welcome

one final thought

when i was first starting out
there was a young boy who played organ at his church
the pedals didnt work so he just played
bass with his hand and chords with his other hand

well he sounded way funkier than I did
and i was humbled that he could do more with two hands than
I could do with two hands plus my feet


there were times when I would sit at a organ at a guest church and be forced to play with just two hands

because the pedals didnt work and was told i played better then usual

case in point

although technically pedals should be played

the organ can also be played with just the hands of course your goal should eventually be to play pedals well

dont worry if you cant right now just play at your level practice practice practice

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: Brandon Adams on June 25, 2008, 02:14:10 PM
It Goes the same the other way around. I find it difficult to play songs on the panio that i can play on the organ great. thanx for the advice
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on June 25, 2008, 03:24:03 PM
It Goes the same the other way around. I find it difficult to play songs on the panio that i can play on the organ great. thanx for the advice

I have seen that too the first time I saw that was about 3 years ago this beast was on the organ visiting my church I was on keyboard
and I was really hitting it that day

and he wanted to show that he could lace it on the piano too

well he got on the keyboard
and he bombed
his pastor made him get back on the organ

the thing i am realizing is that
you have to make the sound on piano

it is about your touch
the way you bring out the notes with the strength of your attack

and your precision and accuracy with you technique

basically whatever you spend the most time practicing
is what you will sound better on



there are some exceptions to this rule

i think b3 wannabe plays the same chords on the organ as he does on the piano
which is interesting to me

it is really about how you set your drawbars and what organ style you have
whether or not you can just transfer to piano and be equally versed


classicaly you start on piano and go to about the fifth  grade level
or higher before you start on organ

in the gospel world it is not like that so
it is very easy to not have adequate piano technique and be a great organist

my advice to you my brother if you want your piano chops to be better

is to find some arrangements of hymns or songs for piano

even if you get these arrangements from ernest and roline

if you read then there are arrangements in the african heritage hymnal that are set for piano and they are great
just loook for the ones that have four staves
they all have piano arrangements most of them arranged by professor nolan and he is the truth for sho

or get jamal hartwells urban worship extreme or pj morgans piano dvd
or some keyboard dvd

because there are some real differences to get the piano style things
and sometimes you want to play a song on piano rather than organ

so expand your horizons
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: musallio on June 25, 2008, 04:30:05 PM
Great stuff Diverse 8)

I'm also glad you mentioned B3's style of play on both the organ & piano..Because I just don't have that touch--the guy has something special in his touch with those chord on the piano..I need him to make a recording because most of the chords he posted lately (a year or 2 ago) sounded very dissonant.

You are a true blessing to me.
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on June 25, 2008, 04:35:50 PM
Great stuff Diverse 8)

I'm also glad you mentioned B3's style of play on both the organ & piano..Because I just don't have that touch--the guy has something special in his touch with those chord on the piano..I need him to make a recording because most of the chords he posted lately (a year or 2 ago) sounded very dissonant.

You are a true blessing to me.

thanks musallio

Title: Re: !
Post by: seemunny on June 26, 2008, 12:34:10 AM
Hey Virtue([url]http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/01.gif[/url])

1 explanation I got from them was that they just went hunting at this game reserve & they had the option to dress up as Khoi Sans, hence that look & daddio carrying the bow & arrows on his back([url]http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif[/url])

I don't know whether to believe it or not, but my dad tells me I saved his life that day: A rattle snake was creeping about 3 feet behind him while he was aiming at a rabbit not very far. Fortunately for him, my mum had left me to crawl around, so I saw this rattle & startin laughing at it (in my most babyish chuckle..hehehe([url]http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif[/url]))...The rattle saw that I was not budging a bit & it cowardly turned around when I reached out my chubby lil hands to give it a whisk (as I would do with our neighbor's lion cubs..If Mike Tyson really wanted to afford to keep a tiger pet, he should have emigrated to here :))..Mum says I cried hysterically when that rattle pulled out on me([url]http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/08.gif[/url]) (so much for an enconter with a rattle itself! >:()

Anyway, mum says was it not for me being friendly with that poisonpisser, daddy would have reacted in a manner we don't even want to imagine & he would be...:( Ok,  I hope Fenbox & C$$ don't read this!!([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/65.gif[/url])


TOO LATE! lol....Mine eyes hath spotted thy text, O' Great One! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)

So the secret is out! Thou ART INDEED "The Great Musallio!" (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif)

From the womb, the baby Mus was destined for "Great" things!

Even before he could say the words ("put it on the sticky"), The Great Baby was fighting crimes against formidable foes such as rattle snakes, lions, and even dragons!

Though at the time, he couldn't speak words, he'd merely "laugh" at the enemy and DARE the enemy to approach! This would frightened the enemy and call for him to speedily scamper away! OH! The TERROR that The Great Baby put into the hearts of the enemy is something to behold!!

One thing we know for sure, this was no ordinary baby - this baby was put onto planet Earth to fight crime, to undo injustices where ever they arise, and yes - help little old ladies across the street!

So, now, all grown up, this former baby crimefighter has a mission, and one you don't wanna be on the wrong side of!

He seen a bird! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif) He flew in a plane! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif) It's "The Great Musalliooooooo!" (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif)(http://forums.superherohype.com/images/smilies/superman1.gif)(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif)

8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: seemunny on June 26, 2008, 12:35:55 AM

Yeah, I always try by all means to hide the fact that I am a true warrior--one of the very few (if any) still roaming the surburbia of South Africa...
To keep true to my warrior-hood :P I try to make a biennial trip to Central Africa's forests to go & wrestle with some of the fiercest serpents in the continent..I really go there by faith..(I should post up some pics of me handling some of those 3metre cobras([url]http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/33.gif[/url]).
But this 1 time,  I felt really offended when the police manhandled me when I boarded a plane in that attire--they accused me of "public indecency" >:( SO much for "our treasured heritage & being proud of our culture" >:( Anyway, they confiscated my bushbuck leather wrap & gave me some cheap cotton rags >:(
Anyway, that's just a short story of my life :)


HOW DARE THEY!! To attempt to shrink The Great One to mere "mortal status?!!" and take away his warriorhood?!!!.... I say NEVERRR!! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif)

Do they not know who they temp!! Ohhh, forgive them for they know not whom they scuffle with! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif)(http://forums.superherohype.com/images/smilies/superman1.gif)(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif)


8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: CReneeW on June 26, 2008, 12:46:16 AM
My piano teacher a couple of years ago offered to teach me the organ. I declined because I wanted to learn how to play the piano comfortably. Now, I have been thinking about learning how to play, but I don't have access to an organ.
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on June 26, 2008, 06:00:30 AM
My piano teacher a couple of years ago offered to teach me the organ. I declined because I wanted to learn how to play the piano comfortably. Now, I have been thinking about learning how to play, but I don't have access to an organ.

thats alright start with the organ patch on your keyboard

organ playing is more than just knowing some left hand chords and knowing how to play the foot pedals


you can play some convincing organ with jsut two hands

but you have to understand how to make the organ legato

there is something called finger substitution
where you keep some fingers in contact with the keys they are playing until just as the other fingers arrive at their destination


for some good organ approaches check out complete hammond

learn how to get a good sound out of the organ

also hammond has a great module that has draw bars so you can begin to learn how to work those drawbars


maudio
ha s a soft synth called key rig

which has a hammond with actual drawbars
and they approximate the real thing pretty well

so like the post says dont wait until you are on an organ to learn how to play it


another way to learn good organ technique
classical approach is to play with a lot of strings and horn patches

try to make the strings and horns sound authentic

organs were originally meant to duplicate string sections and horn sections

so learning how to play horn patches and string patches accurately is a great way to prepare yourself on the organ


chordally
if you learn some left hand chords and learn how to play your songs with just your left hand you will be on your way
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: CReneeW on June 26, 2008, 03:59:46 PM
thats alright start with the organ patch on your keyboard

organ playing is more than just knowing some left hand chords and knowing how to play the foot pedals


you can play some convincing organ with jsut two hands

but you have to understand how to make the organ legato

there is something called finger substitution
where you keep some fingers in contact with the keys they are playing until just as the other fingers arrive at their destination


for some good organ approaches check out complete hammond

learn how to get a good sound out of the organ

also hammond has a great module that has draw bars so you can begin to learn how to work those drawbars


maudio
ha s a soft synth called key rig

which has a hammond with actual drawbars
and they approximate the real thing pretty well

so like the post says dont wait until you are on an organ to learn how to play it


another way to learn good organ technique
classical approach is to play with a lot of strings and horn patches

try to make the strings and horns sound authentic

organs were originally meant to duplicate string sections and horn sections

so learning how to play horn patches and string patches accurately is a great way to prepare yourself on the organ


chordally
if you learn some left hand chords and learn how to play your songs with just your left hand you will be on your way


Thank you diverse379 for the great information on approaching the organ. I have a keyboard that has strings and horns. I will practice songs with the strings to get a feel for the organ. Also, I will play more left hand chords in songs especially tritones.

Thank you once again.
Title: Re: !
Post by: Virtuenow on June 30, 2008, 12:21:18 AM
TOO LATE! lol....Mine eyes hath spotted thy text, O' Great One! ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif[/url])

So the secret is out! Thou ART INDEED "The Great Musallio!" ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif[/url])

From the womb, the baby Mus was destined for "Great" things!

Even before he could say the words ("put it on the sticky"), The Great Baby was fighting crimes against formidable foes such as rattle snakes, lions, and even dragons!

Though at the time, he couldn't speak words, he'd merely "laugh" at the enemy and DARE the enemy to approach! This would frightened the enemy and call for him to speedily scamper away! OH! The TERROR that The Great Baby put into the hearts of the enemy is something to behold!!

One thing we know for sure, this was no ordinary baby - this baby was put onto planet Earth to fight crime, to undo injustices where ever they arise, and yes - help little old ladies across the street!

So, now, all grown up, this former baby crimefighter has a mission, and one you don't wanna be on the wrong side of!

He seen a bird! ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif[/url]) He flew in a plane! ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif[/url]) It's "The Great Musalliooooooo!" ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif[/url])([url]http://forums.superherohype.com/images/smilies/superman1.gif[/url])([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif[/url])

8)



Haha!  Woah, you spotted the [former] warrior baby, too?!  That was a cool story, I agree.  Musallio is spunky as usual.  You two should get together and write a playwright (sp)-- you both have great theatrics.  Anyway, I think Musallio is a snake dancer now...or something :) ; you know, next to a the budding musician that he is.
Title: Re: !
Post by: seemunny on June 30, 2008, 12:57:37 AM
Haha!  Woah, you spotted the [former] warrior baby, too?!  That was a cool story, I agree.  Musallio is spunky as usual.  You two should get together and write a playwright (sp)-- you both have great theatrics.  Anyway, I think Musallio is a snake dancer now...or something :) ; you know, next to a the budding musician that he is.


Aww thank you! I just HAD to shine the light on him, as soon as i seen:


Ok,  I hope Fenbox & C$$ don't read this!!


(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)

Yeah, we should write a top successful play, and split everything equally 70/30, cause there is NO WAY i'm gonna sit back and allow for the Great One to get a measly 25%...NEVER!! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif) lol

And i got a feeling that you're exactly right about that "dancer" part! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif)

(http://bestsmileys.com/dancing/11.gif) (Go Mus! Go Mus! It's ya birfday! It's ya birfday!)

8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: Virtuenow on June 30, 2008, 02:47:16 AM
haha.  I only disagree on one point-- I'm sure he'll be happy w/an equal 25% share.  Fair is fair!  Aw you got a dancer!  It looks like the guy is shouting (or is that a heel-to-toe) but where is the snake?  Otherwise, it looks exactly like him :)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: musallio on July 01, 2008, 08:02:13 PM
I'm paralyzed!!! From laughter(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)
Virtue & C$$, U 2 must be expelled from here until you learn to treat me with dignity(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)

Look at me now, I have all these lines on my cheeks from cracking  :-[(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif)
1 of these days I'll just login to collect all these comments & make a comprehensive sctapbook outa them(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif)

Oh, I have another idea--how about a 2-man show: C$$& Fenbox..& I think Virtue will make the perfect candidate for presenting the show(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: seemunny on July 04, 2008, 03:04:24 AM
I'm paralyzed!!! From laughter([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif[/url])([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif[/url])([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif[/url])([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif[/url])
Virtue & C$$, U 2 must be expelled from here until you learn to treat me with dignity([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/21.gif[/url])


What you mean "dignity"...man, didn't you read when i said when we go half on that top successful play, that you would be getting a whopping 30%! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif)

Because i would NEVER give you a measly 25%, because that would be greed on my part! So, you have my word that your 29% is well intact, if i have anything to do with it!

Too many people try to take advantage of others far too often, and that's why i would make SURE that you get your 27%, and that's my word!!

And i mean this with everything i have: "if you EVER need to borrow some money, i give you my WORD, that i'll DEFINITELY think about it. 8)

Oh, I have another idea--how about a 2-man show: C$$ & Fenbox..& I think Virtue will make the perfect candidate for presenting the show([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif[/url])


And Mus, your producing/managing skills are just outstanding, the way you cast Virtue as "Host" (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/09/13/t1home.oprah.jpg) (http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif) "she GOOD!"

8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: boogiesibley on July 19, 2008, 05:26:31 PM
I have a question: Does it matter which hand is played on which manual? My aunt plays her right hand on the top manual and her left hand on the bottom, but when I watch other gospel organists they play the opposite way, their left hand on top and their right hand on bottom.   ?/?
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on July 20, 2008, 12:12:52 AM
It doesent matter both manuals are supposed to be able to sound exactly alike
unless your tubes are mismatched

as long as you set the drawbars for whatever you want it shouldnt make a difference

the first four or three out will give you a nice bass sound and a decent lead chording sound

that is for your left hand bass and you can bring your right hand to that manual too if you need to

some people pull all the drawbars out on one manual for that screaming organ sound

for right hand soloing but that is reserved for just that for more gentle articulate chording you need a gentler setting

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: under13 on July 20, 2008, 02:19:44 AM
I have a question: Does it matter which hand is played on which manual? My aunt plays her right hand on the top manual and her left hand on the bottom, but when I watch other gospel organists they play the opposite way, their left hand on top and their right hand on bottom.   ?/?

What diverse said was correct, except that you can only use percussion on the top manual using the B preset. Thats the only difference btween the 2 manuals. Thats why many people play like that. Us gospel cats dont do that because we dont really use percussion. We do this Also because we use the upper for it for bass, so when we wanna return to playing left hand chords, we dont have to have both hands on the upper (swell) manual

And for those who didnt know, When Percussion is on, your 1' drawbar is disabled. (unless your tech assigned it to another drawbar)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: seemunny on July 20, 2008, 02:25:23 AM
Man, all i know is that organ players be pullin' them drawbars out at least every 4 seconds! (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif)

Look, i understand that they gotta "get it right". And after a lil bit, it seems they FINALLY find what they're looking for! Ahhh yess!

But just when you think it's safe...."Oops, i gotta adjust it just a lil mo!" (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/15.gif)


I'm starting think that all organ players play different versions of "The Song That Just Couldn't Quite Get Right, In Jesus Name!" writer: unknown 8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on July 20, 2008, 06:08:11 AM
What diverse said was correct, except that you can only use percussion on the top manual using the B preset. Thats the only difference btween the 2 manuals. Thats why many people play like that. Us gospel cats dont do that because we dont really use percussion. We do this Also because we use the upper for it for bass, so when we wanna return to playing left hand chords, we dont have to have both hands on the upper (swell) manual

And for those who didnt know, When Percussion is on, your 1' drawbar is disabled. (unless your tech assigned it to another drawbar)


I didnt mention that because every organ is not equipped with percussion but to find out if yours is one
you will know if you see three white buttons on the right hand side near the on and off switches
IPlay an RT3 church and there is no percussion

the organs that have percussion from my understanding are all the B3's  the C3's
and the A 100's  there are others like the XB3 and the new B3

but bear in mind there are many many organs out there with no percussion capabiliies

Man, all i know is that organ players be pullin' them drawbars out at least every 4 seconds! ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif[/url])

Look, i understand that they gotta "get it right". And after a lil bit, it seems they FINALLY find what they're looking for! Ahhh yess!

But just when you think it's safe...."Oops, i gotta adjust it just a lil mo!" ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/15.gif[/url])


I'm starting think that all organ players play different versions of "The Song That Just Couldn't Quite Get Right, In Jesus Name!" writer: unknown 8)

You are funny

you play keyboards right?

well the how many sounds does your board have?

well the organ is the king of synthesizers it was the original synthesizer and it boasts over 2,000,000 sounds

so when you see people moving drawbars listen for the subtle changes
 because a good organsist can act like a conductor in an orchestra bringing in strings and horns flutes oboes for different sections of a song.

to me they dont really sound like strings or oboes
but they do sound different

get your hands on an old hammond users manual they have a list of some of the main families and usable drawbar settings

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: seemunny on July 21, 2008, 02:28:41 AM
I didnt mention that because every organ is not equipped with percussion but to find out if yours is one
you will know if you see three white buttons on the right hand side near the on and off switches
IPlay an RT3 church and there is no percussion

the organs that have percussion from my understanding are all the B3's  the C3's
and the A 100's  there are others like the XB3 and the new B3

but bear in mind there are many many organs out there with no percussion capabiliies
You are funny

you play keyboards right?

well the how many sounds does your board have?

well the organ is the king of synthesizers it was the original synthesizer and it boasts over 2,000,000 sounds

so when you see people moving drawbars listen for the subtle changes
 because a good organsist can act like a conductor in an orchestra bringing in strings and horns flutes oboes for different sections of a song.

to me they dont really sound like strings or oboes
but they do sound different

get your hands on an old hammond users manual they have a list of some of the main families and usable drawbar settings




Two million sounds? (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif)

That's almost as many as a Yamaha DX7!!


very interesting stuff about the wonders of the organ! But still, if you gon play an organ, you need to pre-set them sounds so you won't have to keep tryin to get it right all through the middle of the piece! lol  8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: under13 on July 21, 2008, 06:43:14 AM
I didnt mention that because every organ is not equipped with percussion but to find out if yours is one
you will know if you see three white buttons on the right hand side near the on and off switches
IPlay an RT3 church and there is no percussion

get your hands on an old hammond users manual they have a list of some of the main families and usable drawbar settings


Honestly, Out of the about 20 or so hammonds That I've Played, I've only seen one that didnt have percusion. I suppose it was a CV or Model D.


If your RT does not have percusion, then you must play an RT2, not 3 :)

I actually have an old hammond manual. If anybody wants, I can upload a few pages
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: themidiroom on July 21, 2008, 09:24:12 AM
But still, if you gon play an organ, you need to pre-set them sounds so you won't have to keep tryin to get it right all through the middle of the piece! lol  8)
Somebody doesn't get it.
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: under13 on July 21, 2008, 09:28:49 AM
Somebody doesn't get it.


yeah, he meant that you must bring certain instruments (sounds) in at different times. I f you listen to classical music, you will notice that sometimes, the horns dont come in until later in the peice etc etc.  Nothin wrong with changing drawbars as you play


Seemunny, watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSxoevh7ZA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSxoevh7ZA)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on July 21, 2008, 10:24:13 AM
Honestly, Out of the about 20 or so hammonds That I've Played, I've only seen one that didnt have percusion. I suppose it was a CV or Model D.


If your RT does not have percusion, then you must play an RT2, not 3 :)

I actually have an old hammond manual. If anybody wants, I can upload a few pages

i guess those in the know make sure they get a hammond with percussion

I will say that the majority of churchesI have gone had percussion equipped hammonds

But I have encountered more than a few that didnt

my church was more concerned about the pipe organ effect so in essence when they bought this organ many years ago they were really trying to get a pipe organ it even has chimes on it

when they got a pipe organ they were so happy with it they really only try to hire musicians who can play a pipe organ

I got lucky I played total praise on it and got over because total praise sounds good on anything

they didnt press me because they heard me play that song

if they had asked me to play anything else I dont think I would have worked here

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: under13 on July 21, 2008, 10:27:45 AM
Did they get a real one or a digital one?
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on July 21, 2008, 10:40:15 AM
Did they get a real one or a digital one?
neither they got Virgil fox's personal organ called black beauty

it is a  custom built organ with 5 or six boxes that stand over 6 feet tall and are at least 8 feet long
they look like the old main frame computers

each box houses tubes (analog ) that support each of the manuals sound stops

it is an incredible organ I understand there are only two like it in the world

the speakers are located in another location
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: under13 on July 21, 2008, 10:49:27 AM
neither they got Virgil fox's personal organ called black beauty

it is a  custom built organ with 5 or six boxes that stand over 6 feet tall and are at least 8 feet long
they look like the old main frame computers

each box houses tubes (analog ) that support each of the manuals sound stops

it is an incredible organ I understand there are only two like it in the world

the speakers are located in another location

You gotta give us some pics. I aint never heard of nothin like that. I've heard of virgil though
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: under13 on July 21, 2008, 10:57:32 AM
Ok, I saw the organ on youtube. I play a rodgers also, but we dont have any extra boxes. Ours is from the 70's
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: lorenz_j on July 21, 2008, 01:34:08 PM
Regarding if you play with the left hand on the bottom and right on top or otherwise, i tend to play with the left playing bass on the bottom because I use percussion

On this clip at the 2:55 minute mark, Joey D talks about that.

Go here:

1.  http://www.keyboardmag.tv/ (http://www.keyboardmag.tv/)
2.  Artists
3.  Joey D.
4.  Hand technique


Nevertheless, playing one way or the other isnt necessarily etched in stone because there are soooo many ways to play the b3.
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: themidiroom on July 21, 2008, 01:55:07 PM
Regarding if you play with the left hand on the bottom and right on top or otherwise, i tend to play with the left playing bass on the bottom because I use percussion

On this clip at the 2:55 minute mark, Joey D talks about that.

Go here:

1.  [url]http://www.keyboardmag.tv/[/url] ([url]http://www.keyboardmag.tv/[/url])
2.  Artists
3.  Joey D.
4.  Hand technique


Nevertheless, playing one way or the other isnt necessarily etched in stone because there are soooo many ways to play the b3.


That clip is really informative.  I mostly do bass on the upper manual but I switch when using percussion
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: diverse379 on July 21, 2008, 02:56:39 PM
Ok, I saw the organ on youtube. I play a rodgers also, but we dont have any extra boxes. Ours is from the 70's

I think ours is from around that period but I am sure when it was made

Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: seemunny on July 22, 2008, 12:33:03 AM
Somebody doesn't get it.


tsk, tsk, tsk, Not Midiroom of all people! I'm so disappointed in you man! lol (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/23.gif)
Midiroom is usually so savy & clever lol...how did he miss the sarcastic tomfoolery of it all! lol





yeah, he meant that you must bring certain instruments (sounds) in at different times. I f you listen to classical music, you will notice that sometimes, the horns dont come in until later in the peice etc etc.  Nothin wrong with changing drawbars as you play

Seemunny, watch this clip [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSxoevh7ZA[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSxoevh7ZA[/url])


Thx for the clip U13...



8)
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: themidiroom on July 22, 2008, 09:22:54 AM
tsk, tsk, tsk, Not Midiroom of all people! I'm so disappointed in you man! lol ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/23.gif[/url])
Midiroom is usually so savy & clever lol...how did he miss the sarcastic tomfoolery of it all! lol




Hmmmm how did you know I was talking about you?   :D
Title: Re: Piano players dont wait until you are on the organ to learn how to play it
Post by: seemunny on July 23, 2008, 01:36:10 AM
Hmmmm how did you know I was talking about you?   :D


Oh, let's just say my Spider Senses were tingling! (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/characters/character0027.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)


8)