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Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: seemunny on May 16, 2008, 01:26:47 AM

Title: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 16, 2008, 01:26:47 AM
JUST KIDDINGGGGGGGG!!!  :D :D :D

HEY! was that a stone!!!...i better get outta here!!
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 17, 2008, 03:25:11 PM
nice 1 mate :D :D 8) 8) ;) :D ;D

Got them looking :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 18, 2008, 02:19:36 AM
nice 1 mate :D :D 8) 8) ;) :D ;D

Got them looking :D

HAHAHAHA! Yeah Musallio! Got about 62 people trying to find a secret way to transpose!  :o

BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Big T. on May 19, 2008, 10:08:46 AM
HAHAHAHA! Yeah Musallio! Got about 62 people trying to find a secret way to transpose!  :o

BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)
I'm looking around for a twenty foot pole to not touch that with.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 19, 2008, 12:22:48 PM
HAHAHAHA! Yeah Musallio! Got about 62 people trying to find a secret way to transpose!  :o

BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)
I was playing at a program about a month ago and they have a Hammond B3000 (which I hate)  Well their musician didn't tell me he had it transposed so when I start to play the song and it was in the wrong key, I just about lost it.  It's so rude to transpose and then not switch it back when you are done playing.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on May 19, 2008, 05:11:18 PM
BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)

I liketh that.  Shouldn't that be in Exomdus though?  LOL!  :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 20, 2008, 03:04:38 AM
I liketh that.  Shouldn't that be in Exomdus though?  LOL!  :D

HAHA!! Both! In the mouth of two or three witnesses
shall every word be established! 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 20, 2008, 03:16:13 PM
If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction.  It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 21, 2008, 12:29:29 AM
If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction.  It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.

Ok, let me stand back, cause i don't like lightning!

"It is written, for God is not the author of tranposition, but of some good songs and pieces, in the 12 keys of Israel"...1 Corentheeans 12:8 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on May 21, 2008, 08:27:43 AM
If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction.  It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.

 Thats cheating! Transposing is almost as bad as asking for the chords to a song thats in a hymn book.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 21, 2008, 08:36:11 AM
I was playing at a program about a month ago and they have a Hammond B3000 (which I hate)  Well their musician didn't tell me he had it transposed so when I start to play the song and it was in the wrong key, I just about lost it.  It's so rude to transpose and then not switch it back when you are done playing.


I always tell my sis to leave everything on neutral if she'd been transposing.
She's very nice to work with coz it's been a long time now since she's left the board transposed.


like you said, it's very frustrating to think you know what key a song is in & when you try to play along things just don't match...it's even worse if you think you were the last one to play previously...at 1st I thought either I was tone deaf all along or the board was detuned!!
:-\

If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction.  It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.


I've heard about that..& some organs come with it..actually, I've seen this Techniks organ at this music store with a transpose feature..so some organists have it easy these days(http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on May 21, 2008, 09:00:53 AM
Ok, let me stand back, cause i don't like lightning!

"It is written, for God is not the author of tranposition, but of some good songs and pieces, in the 12 keys of Israel"...1 Corentheeans 12:8 8)

WOW, I think me and u need to start a music Bible, LOL!!!  ;)  :D  ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 21, 2008, 09:12:23 AM
I've heard about that..& some organs come with it..actually, I've seen this Techniks organ at this music store with a transpose feature..so some organists have it easy these days([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/url])


I would imagine just about all electronic organs will transpose.  I was refering to the Hammond tonewheel organs.  They are more difficult to transpose since the sound is produced mechanically.  I played at my aunt's church and me and their keyboardist were never quite in the same key.  After a while, I started detuning my board and it turns out, he was tuned to A-446 instead of A-440. 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 21, 2008, 09:13:38 AM
(http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/hahaha.gif)

WOW, I think me and u need to start a music Bible, LOL!!!  ;)  :D  ;D

hehe.U sho doo sim to have an indepth understendiing of thiiz books (Exomdus , Deutoronomee, let's see, what's next...I Pitza(http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/laughter.gif))

It sure will be a bible that convicts people to strictly observe all the do's & don'ts of music :D :D (http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/rulez.gif)(http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/thumb.gif)

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 21, 2008, 09:13:40 AM
verily, transposing is of da debil, yea, ye shall have no part in it.....
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Hammplayer on May 21, 2008, 12:59:06 PM
How bout people jus quit takin the easy way out and actually take the time out to learn their craft, and quit selling their self short!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :o :o :o
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on May 21, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
What is a Transposer, And How do you Become One?



How’s the Pay
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on May 21, 2008, 02:35:33 PM
What is a Transposer, And How do you Become One?



How’s the Pay


I know u were probably joking man, but here is some answers to your questions:

A transposer is one who can ONLY play in one or a few keys.  W/out the transpose button, they are the sorriest musicians known to man, LOL.  J/K bout dat last sentence, but they are indeed garbage outside they key.

How do you become one?  Just learn everything in one key and hit the transpose button for every other key.  Of course, it does take an extra skill to be a good transposer.  You gotta know what key to tranpose 2, how many times to hit the button, how to smootly modulate in the middle of a song using that button, etc.  In the short run it's faster, but in the long run it's actually harder than learning to play in every key.

From what I hear (& see), the pay is great cuz most churches don't really give a care.  As long as u can hit a note, u can start with $100 a sunday easy.  The true musicians know this is not the way to go.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 22, 2008, 01:13:45 AM
([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/hahaha.gif[/url])
hehe.U sho doo sim to have an indepth understendiing of thiiz books (Exomdus , Deutoronomee, let's see, what's next...I Pitza([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/laughter.gif[/url]))

It sure will be a bible that convicts people to strictly observe all the do's & don'ts of music :D :D ([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/rulez.gif[/url])([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/thumb.gif[/url])




looool EXACTLY Musallio!!...And where on earth do you get those yahoo smileys from!! You must know somebody in high places! lol 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 22, 2008, 01:14:28 AM
I know u were probably joking man, but here is some answers to your questions:

A transposer is one who can ONLY play in one or a few keys.  W/out the transpose button, they are the sorriest musicians known to man, LOL.  J/K bout dat last sentence, but they are indeed garbage outside they key.

How do you become one?  Just learn everything in one key and hit the transpose button for every other key.  Of course, it does take an extra skill to be a good transposer.  You gotta know what key to tranpose 2, how many times to hit the button, how to smootly modulate in the middle of a song using that button, etc.  In the short run it's faster, but in the long run it's actually harder than learning to play in every key.

From what I hear (& see), the pay is great cuz most churches don't really give a care.  As long as u can hit a note, u can start with $100 a sunday easy.  The true musicians know this is not the way to go.

And that's the name of dat tune! lol 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on May 22, 2008, 04:19:10 AM
From what I hear (& see), the pay is great cuz most churches don't really give a care.  As long as u can hit a note, u can start with $100 a sunday easy. 

So why am I playing for free?

                    Just thinking out loud

  The true musicians know this is not the way to go.

So true. not every church has a keyboard. The Transposer will be straight up embarresed when the soloist modulates and they have to stop playing
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 22, 2008, 07:08:29 AM
*stands up*

Ummm....Hello....

My name is Wolfy...and....and......I was a transposer..........

('hi wolfy!" People clapping )

uh, I've been clean for 10 years, after i was called out by a profit prophet that modulated while hooping.......
("good for you!" more clapping)


I, uh, just wanted to uh, encourage someone here that hears the uh...uhm....the demon that lives under the global settings button, God will deliver...uh, thank you......


(mother jenkins in background" o yes he will! shanama!)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 22, 2008, 08:50:39 AM
So true. not every church has a keyboard. The Transposer will be straight up embarresed when the soloist modulates and they have to stop playing
We have no keyboards, only B3 and a piano.  If you did go to churches with a keyboard, would you always know how to transpose it?
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 22, 2008, 09:09:17 AM
A director said sumthin to me that made me step it up. I was learnin to play at this church, yeers ago, and another church wanted me to help their choir, and i just kept it real with them, lettin them kno that Im not proficient in all keys, dude was like, "i appreciated that, keepin it professional, but what u gonna do if the power goes out and there's only a piano?"
I had my epiphany moment then.


We have no keyboards, only B3 and a piano.  If you did go to churches with a keyboard, would you always know how to transpose it?

As a former keyboard salesman, YES....... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on May 22, 2008, 09:19:01 AM
We have no keyboards, only B3 and a piano.  If you did go to churches with a keyboard, would you always know how to transpose it?

I dont even know how to find the transpose function on any of these boards.  a few years ago I used it on my casio ONCE!, I wanted to play along with something that was in Eb, that I had learned in D.

Now for most things, If I can play it in one key, I can play it in all of them, it wont be as good in some keys, but I can still hold it down. Transpose would mess me up, it would be frustrating reaching for an A and hearing Bb
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: BimmerFan99 on May 22, 2008, 12:50:05 PM
I transposed once during a service a few years ago.  I felt really bad.  Never did it again.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 22, 2008, 01:39:20 PM
As a former keyboard salesman, YES....... ;D ;D
I could pretty much figure it out if it's a Roland, Yamaha, or Korg.  I have a Studiologic controller and another musician couldn't figure out how to transpose it.  I let him sweat a little before I offered to help.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Rjthakid on May 22, 2008, 03:05:13 PM
I own a Yamaha MO8, and I have no idea how to transpose.


That doesn't mean I'm a beast.  That's not the case.  I'd just rather work out a song in a different key than transpose.  So I never learned how to use it.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 22, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
I could pretty much figure it out if it's a Roland, Yamaha, or Korg.  I have a Studiologic controller and another musician couldn't figure out how to transpose it.  I let him sweat a little before I offered to help.

tru that, the Studiologic(fatar) controllers are NUTS to navigate the globals.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: HammondMan82 on May 22, 2008, 08:54:50 PM
I own a Yamaha MO8, and I have no idea how to transpose.


That doesn't mean I'm a beast.  That's not the case.  I'd just rather work out a song in a different key than transpose.  So I never learned how to use it.

THATS GOOD....!!!
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Dooley on May 24, 2008, 09:11:38 PM
Hammond player here... no b-3000's no XB-3's....
Only A-100, C3, C2, B2, CV,BV, RT2, RT3, And B3's for me.  No transpose on any of those. 
And for the record, if you put a transpose on your tonewheel, by the time you go through all of that trouble doing that, you coulda practiced learning the song in the key you weren't comfortable in, lol...

Transposing is the worse thing ever created. 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on May 25, 2008, 01:56:11 AM
Aww come on man! When you transpose in the world, oh it's really baaad. But when you transpose for the lord....aww man watch out!! right? right?  ?/?

LGM are you WIT MEEEEE!... :o

(i'm not feelin the love in here!) lol 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 27, 2008, 09:19:46 AM

Transposing is the worse thing ever created. 
I don't think it's quite that serious.  :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on May 27, 2008, 09:58:26 AM
I don't think it's quite that serious.  :D

Oh, but it is!



Depending on what your goal as a musician is. If you wanna be a keyboard player, then go ahead and transpose. But if you wanna be a piano or organ player the you need to be ready for any key.

Its almost like using steroids
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 27, 2008, 10:13:13 AM
Oh, but it is!



Depending on what your goal as a musician is. If you wanna be a keyboard player, then go ahead and transpose. But if you wanna be a piano or organ player the you need to be ready for any key.

Its almost like using steroids
I just focus on my abilities and work towards growing as a musician.  There are a lot of folks that transpose and that's not going to change, so I don't worry about them.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on May 27, 2008, 03:47:53 PM
I stopped worrying about what others thought about my playing and whether or not I used or did not use the transpose feature on a keyboard or not.  I have used it when things were crucial and the singer came up with a sore throat last minute and it was a paid gig.  No sense sounding bad purely because my ego needed stroked.  The show or in this case the service was the most important thing.  Can I play in twelve keys, yes.  Do I want to slop through something with a a house full of people that are expecting a great concert merely because I have to proove to everyone that "Look ma, no transpose button!"? OR do I play it as we have rehearsed for weeks to get the performance as perfect as we can so the singer sounds great and no one is the wiser.  I choose to not allow my ego to over-ride my common sense.

I play organ... The XK-3 kind.  There are numerous hisses and despairing remarks about these new fangled electronic instruments not sounding like the real deal.  I have to beg to differ.  I run mine through a 145 Leslie and it screams.

The great thing about opinions is that everyone is entitled to theirs.  You all have yours.  I respect the fact that you believe what you do.  I disagree because it is not practical in all cases and shows a very small minded view of what music is about as a whole.  It is not about transposers and cappos.  It is about what lies underneath.  If you really believe that the only thing that makes a musician great is their ability to play without transposition, you really no nothing about music at all....
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on May 27, 2008, 06:38:42 PM
Transposing is the worse thing ever created. 

HAHAHAHAHAHA, I wouldn't go that far, but yeah it was a sucky invention.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 27, 2008, 07:42:48 PM
SHOOOOT, guitar players do it ALL DE TIME....
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on May 28, 2008, 10:19:12 AM
SHOOOOT, guitar players do it ALL DE TIME....

They just as bad.  If guitar players jumped off a building, would u wanna do it too? LOL.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on May 28, 2008, 10:20:32 AM
SHOOOOT, guitar players do it ALL DE TIME....

Who needs guitar players?
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 28, 2008, 11:18:35 AM
I stopped worrying about what others thought about my playing and whether or not I used or did not use the transpose feature on a keyboard or not.  I have used it when things were crucial and the singer came up with a sore throat last minute and it was a paid gig.  No sense sounding bad purely because my ego needed stroked.  The show or in this case the service was the most important thing.  Can I play in twelve keys, yes.  Do I want to slop through something with a a house full of people that are expecting a great concert merely because I have to proove to everyone that "Look ma, no transpose button!"? OR do I play it as we have rehearsed for weeks to get the performance as perfect as we can so the singer sounds great and no one is the wiser.  I choose to not allow my ego to over-ride my common sense.

I play organ... The XK-3 kind.  There are numerous hisses and despairing remarks about these new fangled electronic instruments not sounding like the real deal.  I have to beg to differ.  I run mine through a 145 Leslie and it screams.

The great thing about opinions is that everyone is entitled to theirs.  You all have yours.  I respect the fact that you believe what you do.  I disagree because it is not practical in all cases and shows a very small minded view of what music is about as a whole.  It is not about transposers and cappos.  It is about what lies underneath.  If you really believe that the only thing that makes a musician great is their ability to play without transposition, you really no nothing about music at all....
Very well said.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 28, 2008, 12:24:16 PM
Very well said.


Indeed...very well said Wolfie....

I know a number of guys who've been playing for over a decade & all they know is 1 key..but bottom line is that people like what they play & invite them all over time & time again, not a single person in the audience's ever complained about them not sounding in tune ::)
I also love the way they play...
I've tried to talk them all into learning the other keys--others don't want to think of it, some do..
I respect all their choices because at the end of the day it's their own personal development & goals they've set themselves...

I also used the transpose this Sunday after I had failed to play a particular song the way I wanted to in it's original key. It was only me who felt let down, but a man's gonna do what a man's gotto do sometimes. It would be ok if I was just practicing & I contunued in that challenging key, but not when the congregation is busy dancing & I hinder them.
Everything flowed with more vigor after I had transposed & no 1 condemned me for it.

But amidst all that, I still strive to master all the keys because it's where I want to be at, whether people notice it or not..I get my sense of achievement no so much from people giving me accolades, but me knowing I'd done what I'd set out to do..Just like when I fail, most of the dissappointment is directed towards myself & I couldn't care less that some1 was waiting for me to stumble.(http://ctasa.freeforums.org/images/smiles/icon_neutral.gif)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 28, 2008, 02:00:24 PM
Indeed...very well said Wolfie....
I was like, what'd i say?


lolz..
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 28, 2008, 02:11:01 PM
I was like, what'd i say?


lolz..
There's a new wolf in town.    ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 28, 2008, 02:30:12 PM
There's a new wolf in town.    ;D
;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on May 28, 2008, 03:04:19 PM
Indeed...very well said Wolfie....

I know a number of guys who've been playing for over a decade & all they know is 1 key..but bottom line is that people like what they play & invite them all over time & time again, not a single person in the audience's ever complained about them not sounding in tune ::)
I also love the way they play...
I've tried to talk them all into learning the other keys--others don't want to think of it, some do..
I respect all their choices because at the end of the day it's their own personal development & goals they've set themselves...

I also used the transpose this Sunday after I had failed to play a particular song the way I wanted to in it's original key. It was only me who felt let down, but a man's gonna do what a man's gotto do sometimes. It would be ok if I was just practicing & I contunued in that challenging key, but not when the congregation is busy dancing & I hinder them.
Everything flowed with more vigor after I had transposed & no 1 condemned me for it.

But amidst all that, I still strive to master all the keys because it's where I want to be at, whether people notice it or not..I get my sense of achievement no so much from people giving me accolades, but me knowing I'd done what I'd set out to do..Just like when I fail, most of the dissappointment is directed towards myself & I couldn't care less that some1 was waiting for me to stumble.([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/images/smiles/icon_neutral.gif[/url])


On the flip side of things...  I do encourage a constant growth in everyone's progress in music.  I, for example, will learn continue to practice this particular song in all 11 other keys so that it feels as smooth as butter to me no matter where I play it so that if this happens again, I will not have to use the transposition key option.  I do not, however feel like I cheated anyone out of a great performance.  I just know that it will bug me, personally to not have something under my fingers.  The time for this feeling happens to me in practice, never in performance.  The performance is for the people. 

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 28, 2008, 04:41:59 PM
On the flip side of things...  I do encourage a constant growth in everyone's progress in music.  I, for example, will learn continue to practice this particular song in all 11 other keys so that it feels as smooth as butter to me no matter where I play it so that if this happens again, I will not have to use the transposition key option.  I do not, however feel like I cheated anyone out of a great performance.  I just know that it will bug me, personally to not have something under my fingers.  The time for this feeling happens to me in practice, never in performance.  The performance is for the people. 



Very well said.
You described exactly what happens to me.
I did exactly just that & exausted the song in all the keys..
Takes time but worth it at the end for me..
Thanks for pill of wizdom. :)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on May 29, 2008, 12:54:15 PM
I have known several music people that will only play music on the black, meaning Eb, Ab, Gb, Db.  They cannot fathom extending themselves out to playing something outside of this realm.  Why do they do this?  It all started out because it was 1) Playing on just the black keys is an easier way to start off sounding good. 2)  We learn by rote.  Many have gone down this path before us...  3) We tend to play in the style and ways that those around us push us to play in.

A rock keyboard player will be stronger in the guitar keys of E, A, B etc.. because he plays in those keys all the time..  A gospel player is stronger in the flatted versions of those keys.

When we start to look at hand position, there is a HUGE comfort level to consider.  Muscle memory comes into play and so does knowing your musical theory.  Making the jump to play in keys that you are unfamiliar with is not simply diving in and hacking away at a piece of wood.  You have to approach each new key with a plan.  You have to look at how the voicings will work together and how you will interconnect the song to make the song into MUSIC.  It is not merely mimicking the original key's tune into another tonal center, it is recreating it in another tonal COLOR.

Eb Major does not have the same tonal sound as B major.  D Major does not remotely sound like Ab Major.  Each tonal center has it's own sound COLOR.  We have to take this into consideration when we take about transposition otherwise you can take an otherwise light sounding melody and make it sound heavy and dreary because all you really did was mimic your voicing instead of making your voicing key specific.

In Jazz, we get this a lot.  You cannot voice lead the same way once you change the keys of a song because the song is either darker or lighter sounding.  Ask yourself this.  When you want to change the keys of a song during worship to add energy, do you go up in the key or down?  If you answered up, you are correct.  Linearly shifting the key up adds energy, you should also look at how you are voicing your chords.  That could also add energy... or maybe you are taking it away by merely mimicking?

Just some things to think about
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on May 29, 2008, 01:43:00 PM
I have known several music people that will only play music on the black, meaning Eb, Ab, Gb, Db.  They cannot fathom extending themselves out to playing something outside of this realm.  Why do they do this?  It all started out because it was 1) Playing on just the black keys is an easier way to start off sounding good. 2)  We learn by rote.  Many have gone down this path before us...  3) We tend to play in the style and ways that those around us push us to play in.

A rock keyboard player will be stronger in the guitar keys of E, A, B etc.. because he plays in those keys all the time..  A gospel player is stronger in the flatted versions of those keys.

When we start to look at hand position, there is a HUGE comfort level to consider.  Muscle memory comes into play and so does knowing your musical theory.  Making the jump to play in keys that you are unfamiliar with is not simply diving in and hacking away at a piece of wood.  You have to approach each new key with a plan.  You have to look at how the voicings will work together and how you will interconnect the song to make the song into MUSIC.  It is not merely mimicking the original key's tune into another tonal center, it is recreating it in another tonal COLOR.

Eb Major does not have the same tonal sound as B major.  D Major does not remotely sound like Ab Major.  Each tonal center has it's own sound COLOR.  We have to take this into consideration when we take about transposition otherwise you can take an otherwise light sounding melody and make it sound heavy and dreary because all you really did was mimic your voicing instead of making your voicing key specific.

In Jazz, we get this a lot.  You cannot voice lead the same way once you change the keys of a song because the song is either darker or lighter sounding.  Ask yourself this.  When you want to change the keys of a song during worship to add energy, do you go up in the key or down?  If you answered up, you are correct.  Linearly shifting the key up adds energy, you should also look at how you are voicing your chords.  That could also add energy... or maybe you are taking it away by merely mimicking?

Just some things to think about

Again, Important points mentioned there Wolfie ;D Wolfram  :)

I've come across a handful of players who've been playing for over a decade, but can only play in 1 key, so I looked at those 4 & thought ..wow, at least that's something (although it won't help you if the song is in G & you have to play a grand piano ::)) But you nailed everything on the wall very accurately (like how newcomers just blindly follow their "aged" heroes without saying, wait a min, how come most of these keys are "no go areas"?.etc..so they pass on that mentality that it is impossible to learn to play in all the 12 keys..I guess it's all based on the performance side of things for most guys who want to play & self-development is flushed out in the process ::)..I know that when guys ask me to help them out & I explain to them that I'll give them theory as part of the package, they never return..at the same time they want to do it in all the keys..4 show off I think :-\)

Well, I could blabber on... :-X


It was such a pleasure to read this I ws expecting some more but then you just stopped!! >:(
Please feel free to add more that's in your mind..I can almost more pearl about to be disposed here ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on May 29, 2008, 02:57:24 PM
Just some things to think about
Wolfram, very profound insight you have.    When I started playing for a church in 03, I was terrified at the thought of playing in all those flat keys.  I transposed for a few months until I got the hang of learning intervals in those other keys.  I felt bad about having to do it but I'm glad I did. 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on May 31, 2008, 10:38:50 AM
I know that when guys ask me to help them out & I explain to them that I'll give them theory as part of the package, they never return..at the same time they want to do it in all the keys..4 show off I think :-\)

Man, this happens to me so much.  I start off my lessons with theory.  After that first lesson, they gone to the next person.  It doesn't really bother me, it just saddens me a little.  I got one faithful student right now (in person that is), so I'll just work with her.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 01, 2008, 01:14:30 AM
Man, this happens to me so much.  I start off my lessons with theory.  After that first lesson, they gone to the next person.  It doesn't really bother me, it just saddens me a little.  I got one faithful student right now (in person that is), so I'll just work with her.

Aww man, they don't wanna do all the stretchin & calisthenics & meditation! They wanna get to the kicks & chops as soon as possible! lol

They sayin: "you can't mediate somebody across the room!...you got to kick 'em!" lol 8)
i just hope the "martial arts metaphor" was made clear enough. lol
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on June 01, 2008, 06:59:23 AM
Aww man, they don't wanna do all the stretchin & calisthenics & meditation! They wanna get to the kicks & chops as soon as possible! lol

They sayin: "you can't mediate somebody across the room!...you got to kick 'em!" lol 8)
i just hope the "martial arts metaphor" was made clear enough. lol

That's it, the old "walk(run)-before-you-crawl(walk)" attitude.  It's a serious disease that's affecting musicians everywhere.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 01, 2008, 08:01:16 AM
Man, this happens to me so much.  I start off my lessons with theory.  After that first lesson, they gone to the next person.  It doesn't really bother me, it just saddens me a little.  I got one faithful student right now (in person that is), so I'll just work with her.
That's it, the old "walk(run)-before-you-crawl(walk)" attitude.  It's a serious disease that's affecting musicians everywhere.

I dont thinnk this is always the case. Its very frustrating when you dont know theory, and you start lessons, and the teacher is throwing all these chord formulas at you that you've never heard before. Music theory is a language, a foriegn one to new musicians. You cant always expect  someone not to be frustrated  when they dont understad a word you are saying. You may as well be speakin in tounges. Also, everybody learns different. Some people learn better with their ear or by sheet music as oposed to theory. Theory isnt the only way to learn. And if there is one person who is gonna slinging theory right and left, its you T-block. :D

If I knew last year, what I do now, then I probaly would have kept going to lessons.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 01, 2008, 06:30:40 PM
Also, everybody learns different. Some people learn better with their ear or by sheet music as oposed to theory. Theory isnt the only way to learn. And if there is one person who is gonna slinging theory right and left, its you T-block. :D

If I knew last year, what I do now, then I probaly would have kept going to lessons.
I have to agree with you.  There was a lot of theory that I just didn't "get" when I was younger and less experienced.  Now that I've been playing for years, it makes a lot more sense to me and theory combined with experience works well for me at this point.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 02, 2008, 01:00:47 AM
I have to agree with you.  There was a lot of theory that I just didn't "get" when I was younger and less experienced.  Now that I've been playing for years, it makes a lot more sense to me and theory combined with experience works well for me at this point.

This could be true for some. But, also..."not getting it" could sometimes be due to the teacher. That could make all the difference in the world!

To me, to be taught Theory with "no context" of what it's used for, would just bored me to death. However, if you told me "listen to this tight musician (it might even be Stevie Wonder in an impromptu Shed! lol) - you hear those fly chords he's playing? This theory will help you understand & play ALL THAT stuff much quicker!"....Man...i'm THERE! Bring it! lol...see what i mean?

However, i think T-block is one of the "good" teachers! 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 02, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
I have to agree with you.  There was a lot of theory that I just didn't "get" when I was younger and less experienced.  Now that I've been playing for years, it makes a lot more sense to me and theory combined with experience works well for me at this point.

And not to say that theory should not be taught at first, but you gotta mix it up with what the student is used to.

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 02, 2008, 08:48:50 AM
And not to say that theory should not be taught at first, but you gotta mix it up with what the student is used to.


When I took lessons way back when, it was all theory.  Learning music was not interesting of fun to me and as far as ear training, you could hang it up.  The key is to assess what you want out of it and find a teacher that can keep you on track.  I left my teacher and never looked back.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 02, 2008, 10:52:13 AM
I learned music from the heart first and then had my mind catch up.  Once theory was applied to everything I knew sounded good to my ear, it all started to click.  Not only did I become exponentially a better musician/saxophone/keyboardist, I was able to communicate with others in the craft using a language that was common.

My own creativity also took a turn for the better.  I was amazed at the world that opened up.  You have to approach things in baby steps, but you have to prepared to work and learn.  It does not come easy to most.  Musical theory is like the cement that you use to set your musical house on.  If is strong, your house stands on a great foundation, if it is not, you do not have a stable ground to build upon.

Learn it, live it, love it...

Wolf
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 03, 2008, 12:33:30 AM
When I took lessons way back when, it was all theory.  Learning music was not interesting or fun to me.....The key is to assess what you want out of it and find a teacher that can keep you on track.


...to be taught Theory with "no context" of what it's used for, would just bored me to death. However, if you told me "listen to this tight musician (it might even be Stevie Wonder in an impromptu Shed! lol) - you hear those fly chords he's playing? This theory will help you understand & play ALL THAT stuff much quicker!"....Man...i'm THERE! Bring it! lol...see what i mean?

In the beginning, there may be certain kinds of music you like and wanna sound like, with certain kinds of chords & progressions and whatnot, therefore, if a teacher can CONNECT theory to all of that good stuff, and you can then "see" how theory will help get you there...aww man, it's a wrap!

(note): Actually, even AFTER you've advanced musically, but don't know theory, WHATEVER else exists in music that you still haven't conquered yet, if someone can connect your missing puzzle to "theory", even that advanced musician will still probably get on board the Theory Train! 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 03, 2008, 08:17:30 AM
Being a musician without learning your theory is like eating a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich without using bread and utensils.  You get all the filling that you want but it is messy and no one can stand to talk to you until you clean yourself up afterwards.

 ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 03, 2008, 09:05:08 AM
You get all the filling that you want but it is messy and no one can stand to talk to you until you clean yourself up afterwards.

 ;D
Funny.   
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach.  I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory.  I think I was pretty good.  Theory connects the dots for me now.  I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know.  If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard.   ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 03, 2008, 09:13:56 AM
Funny.  
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach.  I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory.  I think I was pretty good.  Theory connects the dots for me now.  I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know.  If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard.   ;D

Makes perfect sense. Yeah theory is important, but having a feel for music is a lot more. I'm sure you have seen preachers who read their text verbatim, as well as those who just make notes, and "Go with the flow"
Yeah they may preach the same message, but the latter will engage the listener and will be more effective. Musicians need to have the same effect. Some of that comes from theory, but theory doesnt ell ou when to do it. You gotta be spontaneous.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 03, 2008, 11:10:54 AM
Funny.   
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach.  I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory.  I think I was pretty good.  Theory connects the dots for me now.  I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know.  If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard.   ;D

I am not talking about the difference about the 'art' of music and the 'science' of music here.  Playing music by feel is great.  It is passionate.  It serves a purpose.  Eventually you will have to or will want to share that with others.  You can sit down and right it down by the physical note name...  You can talk about the progression that you used.  You can what progressions inspire different emotions in people.  This, my friends, is theory.  It is not a slamming your head against the wall study of some academic diatribe that you get in college.  It is a study of what make people and music tick...

In the 50's... the progression of note were:  I-vi-IV-V7 or I-vi-ii7-V7 with various turnarounds
In Blues... I-IV-V is the standard

You have Rhythm changes that work around the AABA form
You have Latin pieces that have signature chords like Girl from Ipanema

Gospel music copies itself with a basis of basic chordal harmonies...

Why is theory a part of playing with feeling?  It helps us free our hearts.  When we know the diatonic circle of tonality (ie.. what chords take you to and from tonic) we open ourselves up to complete freedom.  When we are free to express ourselves with complex chordal harmonies (9,11,13th, suspensions, alterations, etc...) we open up the entire palette of available music colors AND we can reproduce it at will because we know exactly what we just did because we can, analyze it and write it down...

I play from my heart first.  I am also VERY grateful that I took the time to beat theory into my mind so I can expand my musical vocabulary beyond what it was in the beginning.

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 03, 2008, 11:41:34 AM
I play from my heart first.  I am also VERY grateful that I took the time to beat theory into my mind so I can expand my musical vocabulary beyond what it was in the beginning.


I agree with you on that.  However, I know a few guys that are great musicians and can play anything but don't know a lick of theory.  I don't think any less of them for it either.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 03, 2008, 12:50:30 PM
Think about how awesome they would be with a little bit of knowledge.

Music is a journey we take that we either continue to grow or one day we find ourselves left behind.  Stevie Wonder and Brother Ray were both blind yet they both understood the importance of information.  In this respect the information was music.  Theory is not all scales and patterns and such.  It is learning how to take the step from being merely a participant to becoming a creative force.  Being able to wield the power of your music not by chance but because you know exactly where it is you are going and you are able to tell others where you are heading as well.... that is magic.  That is what people remember you for. 

We often take the easiest road or the path of least resistance because we are afraid of personal failure.  We do not learn to read music because it is too difficult but we make an excuse and blame it on a different reason.  This thread is all about transposition... We use that button because it is easy.  It is the path most traveled.  All excuses...  Even I make an excuse...  All we can really do is improve ourselves daily by meeting the challenges head on. 

I will help anyone here with their theory.  You have my word on that.  I ask that you make the effort to actually learn.  In return I promise to continue to banish the transposition devil from my world as quickly as possible.

We are a community of people that never meet, but we are a community nonetheless.  Helping one another should be our concern.

Peace,

wolf
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 03, 2008, 01:29:59 PM
Think about how awesome they would be with a little bit of knowledge.
I don't think about it because they are adults and have made their own decisions about musicianship.  I take them as they are and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 03, 2008, 02:59:01 PM
Wow, amazing how this thread has turned into a theory thread with just me gone into isolation for the weekend :D :D

Midiroom, I get you well with your last comment, but I have to agree with Wolfram..
This weekend I had the priviledge to play at a conference..
Some guys would know here that I've only ever played once at church in my life, but here I was suddenly enthrsted with this huge role..
The guys told me from the start that they wanted me to play the traditional style (which I've only ever practiced in once @ home ::) :P)

But I was so amazed when I got there & I just started playing..
It was by feel, yes, but theory made me do the right stuff...If I didn't have the theory, I probably would have made tantamount mistakes & I would have been booed out, but the way I played was so impressive that now I find myself being given more responsibility than I would like >:(

I can explain everything I was doing & I didn't have to transpose because I knew exactly what I had to do (thanks to the numbers!!!)...
& yes, there was alot of feel to it, but I was still guided by theory more than anything....

What I have also noted is that the advanced guys have all said that theory has helped them to put the dots together...

I have 2 sets of students:

The 1st once wanted to learn to play all the stuff they hear in 3 days..alright..they can play some of the songs now,but it is so difficult to explain to them stuff that will help them play instantly, because they "don't understand the language"...I have to resort to saying: "Play this chord..", "what is a chord?".."this!" , "then that..then this"....very frustrating & time consuming & you'd have to do that for most songs!!! Because they thought theory was going to waste their time..

then there are guys who fell in love with my playing & I told them I'll start them off with theory..
I taught them about forming scales & the importance of those...
I told them how songs are built off scales..
The dude was incredibly fascinated (so was I 8))...
I then illustrated a simple song, Joy To The World...
I told him we needed to add some meet in our melody, so I had to explain how the chords are formed for the c major scale.

Need I say that since his ear was so good, when the group was praying, he was playing whilst I was away!!!
More importantly, he had an understanding of what he was doing..

My point:
Theory needn't be boring, it can be applied there & then :) This guy was telling me how he would have gone for music classes a long time ago if he'd known that THEORY was soooo exciting..
He's a drummer btw ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 03, 2008, 03:39:01 PM
Wow, amazing how this thread has turned into a theory thread with just me gone into isolation for the weekend :D :D

Midiroom, I get you well with your last comment, but I have to agree with Wolfram..
I agree with Wolfram as well.  I have no problems with theory at all.  I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 03, 2008, 05:56:49 PM
I agree with Wolfram as well.  I have no problems with theory at all.  I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.

 ;)

Sorry, my bad, poor grammar on my part >:(
I understood that you agreed with WR..
I shouldn't have added that "but"..
effectively, I was agreeing with both of you & like what you both have to say..
Hoepfully many people will grow the wiser from your contributions. :)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 04, 2008, 02:20:37 AM
Musallio, are you stirring up stuff again!  :D

8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 04, 2008, 07:55:48 AM
Well...

We can go back to the Dark Ages and blame the monks for ruining the originality of purely non theory music.

In the middle of the 12th century, the Gregorian Monks began charting out the mass in a series of lines and squared dots based on a scalur mode system that eventual became known as the Modes we use now in all of our modern music.  (Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aolian, Locrian, Major). 

In the 16th century, the Grand Staff was developed so that a greater scope of notation could be had.

So, I guess if you mean that music prior to the Dark Ages was without theory and done simply by rote...  I would agree with you.  A master musician would take a worthy apprentice and then train him to be a journeyman and then a master himself.  Unfortuneley the saying is that a student can only learn to be 75% as good as the teacher this way unless he is a prodigy...  That would mean that if this would have continued...  The telephone game of music would have cost us more than gained us.

Theory does not have to be heavy.  It can be incorporated into your regular playing.  Just consider it a painters palette of colors.  Do you want one choice or hundreds?

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 04, 2008, 08:43:03 AM
We can go back to the Dark Ages and blame the monks for ruining the originality of purely non theory music.
Theory does not have to be heavy.  It can be incorporated into your regular playing.  Just consider it a painters palette of colors.  Do you want one choice or hundreds?


I digress.  Dang monks!   :)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on June 04, 2008, 03:29:08 PM
I agree with Wolfram as well.  I have no problems with theory at all.  I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.

U sure bout dat?  Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 04, 2008, 03:46:14 PM
U sure bout dat?  Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.

True..
Theory is always there..it's just a matter of it being written down & communicated to other people.

illustration:

When I started playing, I had no theoretical understanding at all..after playing a few times, I saw some reccurring patterns, but I could not explain them in musician's language..
That does not mean that the stuff I was playing could not be explained theoretically--purely means I was in the dark, but some1 with an understanding of theory could have come to me & told me you have just played this , that & that using this scale, in the proper music language.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 05, 2008, 01:55:15 AM
lol Man, yall really splittin' hairs now!

If before the written theory existed, there was still theory in the "minds" of people, then wouldn't those people simply be like any other player who plays by ear?

When you say "plays by ear", all that means is, "you didn't READ it", but you still may have had a "system" that you discovered. By trial and error, you discovered how things worked. THEREFORE, i guess one could call that guy a musician who was using "theory", it just WASN'T written down - it was in his head.

So "theoretically", an "ear player", is still using theory! lol 8)
Now, what do we do? lol
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 05, 2008, 08:06:14 AM
So "theoretically", an "ear player", is still using theory! lol 8)


NO

When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.

When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.

Thats Just how I see it.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 05, 2008, 09:18:38 AM
NO

When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.

When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.

Thats Just how I see it.

That is EXACTLY the difference...  You can combine the two, but the fundamentals of theory are cognitive thought.  A person versed in theory can think ahead of the game MUCH faster.  There is a logical sequence to what is coming up. 

I played sax by ear (not in my ear, BY ear).  I was REALLY good.  I never took a lesson and toured all over the country playing for thousands of people.  I then went to college and got theory...  My sax playing took off through the roof because someone handed me a paint store of musical colors to play with.  I had this HUGE warehouse of things I could pull from now that I did not even know existed because playing be ear, I had to hear it first, playing with a theory foundation meant I could just create it.

W
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 05, 2008, 11:46:39 AM
U sure bout dat?  Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.
Still digressing.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 05, 2008, 01:29:38 PM
That is EXACTLY the difference...  You can combine the two, but the fundamentals of theory are cognitive thought.  A person versed in theory can think ahead of the game MUCH faster.  There is a logical sequence to what is coming up. 

I played sax by ear (not in my ear, BY ear).  I was REALLY good.  I never took a lesson and toured all over the country playing for thousands of people.  I then went to college and got theory...  My sax playing took off through the roof because someone handed me a paint store of musical colors to play with.  I had this HUGE warehouse of things I could pull from now that I did not even know existed because playing be ear, I had to hear it first, playing with a theory foundation meant I could just create it.

W

& that's a Rapp!!! (BishopCole would say!) :)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 06, 2008, 01:20:28 AM
NO

When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.

When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.

Thats Just how I see it.

lol Naw man! I said "yall were splitting hairs" to the point that....you could say just about Anything had some theory "technically speaking".

Because, if you think about it, when people say "play by ear", they just mean, "never learned how to read notation". Therefore, "playing be ear" = sight, sound, and discovery. And when you hear something, then you attempt to play it....once you finally learn it, you start to develop a personal system.

For instance, you might know at certain places in a song that you can play "certain notes". You don't have a NAME for the notes, but the name might be "the pentatonic scale". That name is a part of theory, and you had NO CLUE! You just knew it sounded good!lol

So my whole point is: When T-block asked in a hair splitting kinda way (lol) if you were sure that theory wasn't around FIRST, my example might be part of what he was referring to.

Of course i understand that theory is a system that someone(s) gave thought to, in terms of figuring out how music works....but ear players on a much smaller, personal level, do the same thing! lol...But they haven't given it names, and nor can they normally take it as far as "currently known theory along with eary", because "There's no need to reinvent the wheel, when it's already been invented for you!" lol

This was a lighthearted response to a post. I encourage ALL musicians to learn a certain level of theory. Because as i said previously somewhere: "theory & eary" work together as a TEAM! One lifts the other, and the other lifts the one. And however much you already know by ear, the theory will only "upgrade" it, and help you get to that next level. 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 06, 2008, 06:09:41 AM
lol Naw man! I said "yall were splitting hairs" to the point that....you could say just about Anything had some theory "technically speaking".

Because, if you think about it, when people say "play by ear", they just mean, "never learned how to read notation". Therefore, "playing be ear" = sight, sound, and discovery. And when you hear something, then you attempt to play it....once you finally learn it, you start to develop a personal system.

For instance, you might know at certain places in a song that you can play "certain notes". You don't have a NAME for the notes, but the name might be "the pentatonic scale". That name is a part of theory, and you had NO CLUE! You just knew it sounded good!lol

So my whole point is: When T-block asked in a hair splitting kinda way (lol) if you were sure that theory wasn't around FIRST, my example might be part of what he was referring to.

Of course i understand that theory is a system that someone(s) gave thought to, in terms of figuring out how music works....but ear players on a much smaller, personal level, do the same thing! lol...But they haven't given it names, and nor can they normally take it as far as "currently known theory along with eary", because "There's no need to reinvent the wheel, when it's already been invented for you!" lol

This was a lighthearted response to a post. I encourage ALL musicians to learn a certain level of theory. Because as i said previously somewhere: "theory & eary" work together as a TEAM! One lifts the other, and the other lifts the one. And however much you already know by ear, the theory will only "upgrade" it, and help you get to that next level. 8)


From the bass forum..

 Re: to the theory heads
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 02:38:53 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line is:

Learning to play should be the best of both worlds. Because, since music is "sound", you obviously have to use your ears. But to become more proficient faster, theory can assist you.

When you understand some theory, it's not separated from your ear. In fact, your ear & theory will work in tandem with one another. One will boost the other, and the other will boost the one (so to speak).

You will learn aurally, then observe & dissect it intellectually. Your brain has stored it in two ways different ways now! You are better off, not worse off.

On a scale from 1 to 10, you ear might be at a level 4, but with theory, you can actually PLAY something at a level 8 (chords & progressions, etc...) - before you can even hear it yet!....THEN, you ear will eventually start to "catch up" with it.

When you purposely allow yourself to do it purely by ear, you are at the mercy of "waiting for the spirit to hit & waiting for new inspiration", before you can progress! With theory, BEFORE your ear gets there, you already have several intellectual options to pursue, and again, your ear will eventually catch up!

That's how your "ear & theory" works in tandem with one another! "The Dynamic Duo", as it were.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 06, 2008, 07:04:47 AM
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 06, 2008, 09:06:56 AM
It's Friday morning and still digressing on this topic.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 06, 2008, 09:13:52 AM
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on June 06, 2008, 09:40:44 AM
  There are no more excuses.




troofs.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 06, 2008, 10:20:19 AM
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

very well said.. :)
I agree with most of this.


I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.

good points there as well..


It's Friday morning and still digressing on this topic.

hehehehe :D ;)

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 06, 2008, 11:31:54 AM
I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.

It is a good thing that you live in America, have access to the internet and are able to read the english language then.  You do not HAVE to make this choice then....

I believe your arguement is heading toward the art vs. science arguement, which is something different entirely.  I went to college with kids that could not play a lick of music that was not written down...  Needless to say they were brilliant technicians but boring to listen to.  THEY could have benefited from developing their ear more.

Now, the one thing that cannot be learned is heart / soul.  You either have it or you don't.  No theory or playing by ear will give you this edge.  This ability is what makes people stop in their tracks and listen to you when you play.  They are mesmerized by what you do...  Add this to your theory and your playing by ear ability and you are something 'special'.

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 07, 2008, 12:10:11 AM
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

Wolf, you make many valid points. However....you said all of this directly after my post.

If this was somewhat in response to me, i don't understand the connection. Because there's nothing i said that would weaken the argument for theory. I was MAKING the case for theory.

However:

If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear.

I would agree with that Under13 (under those circumstances). HOWEVER, since we're not forced to "make that choice", i think everyone here would agree that using BOTH, (ear coupled with theory) is by far the OPTIMUM way to go! 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 07, 2008, 12:12:25 AM

From the bass forum..

 Re: to the theory heads
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 02:38:53 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,56240.80.html[/url]

Bottom line is:

Learning to play should be the best of both worlds. Because, since music is "sound", you obviously have to use your ears. But to become more proficient faster, theory can assist you.

When you understand some theory, it's not separated from your ear. In fact, your ear & theory will work in tandem with one another. One will boost the other, and the other will boost the one (so to speak).

You will learn aurally, then observe & dissect it intellectually. Your brain has stored it in two ways different ways now! You are better off, not worse off.

On a scale from 1 to 10, your ear might be at a level 4, but with theory, you can actually PLAY something at a level 8 (chords & progressions, etc...) - before you can even hear it yet!....THEN, your ear will eventually start to "catch up" with it.

When you purposely allow yourself to do it purely by ear, you are at the mercy of "waiting for the spirit to hit & waiting for new inspiration", before you can progress! With theory, BEFORE your ear gets there, you already have several intellectual options to pursue, and again, your ear will eventually catch up!

That's how your "ear & theory" works in tandem with one another! "The Dynamic Duo", as it were.


"Musallio The Detective!" lol....Great work man! I was too lazy to find my own archive, but you made up for it like Johnny on the spot! (http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif)

You went to that proverbial haystack and FOUND that needle! :D

8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 07, 2008, 04:46:46 PM
It is a good thing that you live in America, have access to the internet and are able to read the english language then.  You do not HAVE to make this choice then....

I believe your arguement is heading toward the art vs. science arguement, which is something different entirely.  I went to college with kids that could not play a lick of music that was not written down...  Needless to say they were brilliant technicians but boring to listen to.  THEY could have benefited from developing their ear more.

Now, the one thing that cannot be learned is heart / soul.  You either have it or you don't.  No theory or playing by ear will give you this edge.  This ability is what makes people stop in their tracks and listen to you when you play.  They are mesmerized by what you do...  Add this to your theory and your playing by ear ability and you are something 'special'.




Wow...Could any wiser words come out from man's mouth!!  I see TMR has thrown in the towel  :D :D :P

"Musallio The Detective!" lol....Great work man! I was too lazy to find my own archive, but you made up for it like Johnny on the spot! ([url]http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif[/url])

You went to that proverbial haystack and FOUND that needle! :D

8)



hehehe..it didn't take me that long coz I just "bumped" into it as I was peeping in at the bass forum 8) ;)
Man, I'm only trying to be like you..like how you pick up the fine details that Diverse did Kung Fu for 51 15 years ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 08, 2008, 01:15:38 AM
Wow...Could any wiser words come out from man's mouth!!  I see TMR has thrown in the towel  :D :D :P

hehehe..it didn't take me that long coz I just "bumped" into it as I was peeping in at the bass forum 8) ;)
Man, I'm only trying to be like you..like how you pick up the fine details that Diverse did Kung Fu for 51 15 years ;D

There you go "peeping" around the corner again Mus! lol...i see you man!  :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 09, 2008, 01:28:49 PM
Ok Fellas (and Ladies if any)  I  searched and Searched and Searched some more.. about these "Transposers"  and After Searching I Realized something ….   

I Don't Like Them ....

They are Mocking a Real Musician  .. They are the Knock off's to Brand Name Musicians.. They Lack Authencity   …. 

They Must Be Stop…

..........Ok my Rant is Over...........            But I  did take the Liberty to Come up with a Track Dedicated to Transposers  The only thing that's Missing is

Lyrics……..  Maybe we can come up with something Collectively to Express our disgust for these 10 Yr "Veteran" Board Players That Transpose Fluently…

Here's the Track ..

It's only 2 there One is" Peanut Butter" (Long Story)  and the Other is "I Don't Transpose" Let me know if u Come up with some Lyrics

N joy

And Send Me a Friends Request While ur at it


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=142655465&MyToken=df007a7c-8dca-4241-9a2e-cf629431af50
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 13, 2008, 01:17:31 AM
There IS one good use of the transpose button:
Out come the knives & guns! lol






















Your transpose button can actually "help" you practice soloing in every key.

Play your favorite recording that you enjoy soloing to. The song might be in the key of Eb, so your fingers practice soloing in Eb. But, then press your transpose button to ANY other key. Now in order to stay in tune with your favorite recording, your fingers must play in a "new key!".

Repeat that process through every key, and there you have it - "the transpose button actually HELPING you to learn how to solo in EVERY key! 8)
Now, put your knives & guns away! lol
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Ladyn on June 13, 2008, 01:58:56 AM
There IS one good use of the transpose button:
Out come the knives & guns! lol


Your transpose button can actually "help" you practice soloing in every key.

Play your favorite recording that you enjoy soloing to. The song might be in the key of Eb, so your fingers practice soloing in Eb. But, then press your transpose button to ANY other key. Now in order to stay in tune with your favorite recording, your fingers must play in a "new key!".

Repeat that process through every key, and there you have it - "the transpose button actually HELPING you to learn how to solo in EVERY key! 8)
Now, put your knives & guns away! lol


Semunny: irt bold, I can not play in Eb and hear Bb or C or any other key but Eb for that matter.  My brain can not comprehend my fingers playing an Eb chord and hearing Ab.  I don't know HOW you all are able to do that!  I use the Vanbasco midi player and I use it's built in transposer to change the key in order to play  along  in all keys.  I am not transposing the keyboard, but the song goes from C to G to Ab etc., and I am able to play along in all the keys.  No need to transpose my keyboard because I just transpose the song. 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 13, 2008, 02:31:22 AM
I am able to play along in all the keys.  No need to transpose my keyboard because I just transpose the song. 


Well "Whoomp! There it is!" lol....You got it! That's the whole point "for you to be able to play in as many keys as possible, preferably all, so you won't have to use a transpose button!

So you're right on track! (http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/4.gif)

However, for some who might enjoy playing along with their favorite recording, by using the transpose button, they'll be able to get practice moving their fingers in every key, in order to stay in tune with the recording, while soloing.

That's really the only good & productive use of the transpose button. 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 13, 2008, 03:08:03 PM
Ok Fellas (and Ladies if any)  I  searched and Searched and Searched some more.. about these "Transposers"  and After Searching I Realized something ….   

I Don't Like Them ....

They are Mocking a Real Musician  .. They are the Knock off's to Brand Name Musicians.. They Lack Authencity   …. 

They Must Be Stop…



In real musician you must mean the musician that can do it all.  Read, compose, improvise and play in all style not just Gospel.  They should be able to compose a serious piece of music AND transcribe it in standard notation.  If a "Real Musician" is a person that can sit behind an instrument and receive the Annointing of God and transfer that Annointing to those in the congregation no matter what the situation and then turnaround and teach a group of non-gospel musicians academically what he/she just did, then sir he truly is a "Real Musician".  Otherwise, we are just exchanging one lacking for another, one hole in the cloth for another. 

I was rather upset to be told that I lack authenticity and that I am not a 'real musician'.  I have explained in earlier posts my use of this feature in the concert setting.  By your words, that makes me a fake musician....  That sir, is insulting... 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 13, 2008, 03:09:29 PM
deleted
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 13, 2008, 03:32:50 PM
deleted
It's hard to believe this topic is still alive.   ::)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 14, 2008, 09:01:46 AM
It's hard to believe this topic is still alive.   ::)

As long as people look for fault in others or a way to glorify themselves...  Threads like this will always live on.  I will admit that we did have a good discussion going for a while, then it tanked again and went back to that lowest common denominator thing again.  It is so very easy to go to the mob mentality and say "hey look at what so and so is doing wrong" or "You are not a real musician because you can't"  fill in the blank.  The fact of the matter is that It really does not matter what we think.  If you listen to how the discussions go on topics like this you will notice some really GOOD discussions and then some really ignorant comments.  That is the nature of an open forum.  Personaly, I think this transpoing thing has been cooked and is done and the moderators should just close the topics entirely because there is nothing more to be constructively said about it. 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: ajohns23 on June 14, 2008, 12:12:11 PM
Bretheren and Sisteren! I must say that this topic has amazed me to no end.  I've read some good points and not so good, I will keep them to myself until I navigate around the board a little more.... ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: PianoWizard on June 14, 2008, 12:19:08 PM
Welcome to the posting side of the LGM family "ajohns23"....Stay Blessed.

PianoWiz...
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on June 14, 2008, 04:43:43 PM
Bretheren and Sisteren! I must say that this topic has amazed me to no end.  I've read some good points and not so good, I will keep them to myself until I navigate around the board a little more.... ;D

Just make sure you drop off some chiccen and biskits before you leave.

:D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 15, 2008, 03:53:55 PM
In real musician you must mean the musician that can do it all.  Read, compose, improvise and play in all style not just Gospel.  They should be able to compose a serious piece of music AND transcribe it in standard notation.  If a "Real Musician" is a person that can sit behind an instrument and receive the Annointing of God and transfer that Annointing to those in the congregation no matter what the situation and then turnaround and teach a group of non-gospel musicians academically what he/she just did, then sir he truly is a "Real Musician".  Otherwise, we are just exchanging one lacking for another, one hole in the cloth for another. 

I was rather upset to be told that I lack authenticity and that I am not a 'real musician'.  I have explained in earlier posts my use of this feature in the concert setting.  By your words, that makes me a fake musician....  That sir, is insulting... 

Sorry you feel that way Bro.

It's not my intent 2 offend or insult you ..I'm just expressing MY feelings towards the subject
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 16, 2008, 06:36:43 AM
Sorry you feel that way Bro.

It's not my intent 2 offend or insult you ..I'm just expressing MY feelings towards the subject

Let me break this down this way... calling another musician a hack is not an "opinion"  it is an insult.   

It would be like me saying to someone that using loop based sequencers to write music means they are not a real musician or If you use drum loops, you are not a real musician or if you can't read music you are not a real musician. 

What makes a real musician is is the ability to feel the music and to get others to do the same.  I am an A-List musician...  Maybe you don't have a clue what that is...  It means that when somebody needs a sax player or a keys player, I am near the top of the call list, why?  Because I am the real deal.  I play with passion and fire, I come to the gig prepared, I don't make stupid mistakes and I don't have a holier than thou attitude about things that can assist on making the show work.  If the singer has a throat strain and we need to play something down a minor 3rd and we have never practiced it there and the concert is in twenty minutes...  I will use the transpose button and call it a day.  It is wiser and smarter to be a REAL MUSICIAN and save the show than blow the moment and fuddle through the performance just so you can go home and say you played something badly in the correct key.  You will NEVER get called again...  ONE bad performance...  that's right ONE is all it takes to write you off.  Are you willing to hang your righteous hat on that?  A REAL MUSICIAN knows what it takes to make the show work.  A REAL MUSICIAN know what it takes to make the church band sound good, even if that means taking a back seat to something.  REAL MUSICAINS are not concerned about the "me" but about the "Big Picture" because it is the entire picture that is important. 

Knowing that you have to do what you have to do is the sign of musical maturity.  Knowing that it is more important to have a succesful event than stroking your own ego is a sign of true musicianship.  When it comes right down to it, if you ask any of the heavy hitters here on this forum, they will tell you that whether or not the transpotion key is used, the end result is ultimately the most important thing.  You can dislike the use of the button yourself and I can respect that, don't disrespect the players that don't hold the same opinion though. 

Wolf
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: jonesl78 on June 16, 2008, 12:27:06 PM
You're not a real musician because...
     you transpose.

You're not cool because...
     you wear fake polo shirts

you're not a real man because...
     you wear pink.

You're not a real baller because...
     you don't drive a benz

Your church is not a real church because...
     its a storefront.

...etc
   
     

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 17, 2008, 02:53:10 AM
Let me break this down this way... calling another musician a hack is not an "opinion"  it is an insult.   

It would be like me saying to someone that using loop based sequencers to write music means they are not a real musician or If you use drum loops, you are not a real musician or if you can't read music you are not a real musician. 

What makes a real musician is is the ability to feel the music and to get others to do the same.  I am an A-List musician...  Maybe you don't have a clue what that is...  It means that when somebody needs a sax player or a keys player, I am near the top of the call list, why?  Because I am the real deal.  I play with passion and fire, I come to the gig prepared, I don't make stupid mistakes and I don't have a holier than thou attitude about things that can assist on making the show work.  If the singer has a throat strain and we need to play something down a minor 3rd and we have never practiced it there and the concert is in twenty minutes...  I will use the transpose button and call it a day.  It is wiser and smarter to be a REAL MUSICIAN and save the show than blow the moment and fuddle through the performance just so you can go home and say you played something badly in the correct key.  You will NEVER get called again...  ONE bad performance...  that's right ONE is all it takes to write you off.  Are you willing to hang your righteous hat on that?  A REAL MUSICIAN knows what it takes to make the show work.  A REAL MUSICIAN know what it takes to make the church band sound good, even if that means taking a back seat to something.  REAL MUSICAINS are not concerned about the "me" but about the "Big Picture" because it is the entire picture that is important. 

Knowing that you have to do what you have to do is the sign of musical maturity.  Knowing that it is more important to have a succesful event than stroking your own ego is a sign of true musicianship.  When it comes right down to it, if you ask any of the heavy hitters here on this forum, they will tell you that whether or not the transpotion key is used, the end result is ultimately the most important thing.  You can dislike the use of the button yourself and I can respect that, don't disrespect the players that don't hold the same opinion though. 

Wolf

Wolfram, i think you & Mintdakid are both good guys, i just think Mint was a little excited about the issue and may not have used the best word in describing his side (which is what kinda put you off a bit). lol

But Wolf, i think with the continuing dialogue (like what's happening), things tend to work themselves out. Such as, your further explanation & feelings on the matter. What you said may have allowed for Mint to (if not change) perhaps soften his view on the matter, or to see it from a different angle. A little clarity can go a long way. 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on June 17, 2008, 08:40:09 AM
You're not a real musician because...
     you transpose.

You're not cool because...
     you wear fake polo shirts

you're not a real man because...
     you wear pink.

You're not a real baller because...
     you don't drive a benz

Your church is not a real church because...
     its a storefront.

...etc


(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii314/Jlaws318/snoopsmh.gif)

Even though this is funny as heck to me, LOL.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 17, 2008, 02:29:10 PM
You're not a real musician because...
     you transpose.

You're not cool because...
     you wear fake polo shirts

you're not a real man because...
     you wear pink.

You're not a real baller because...
     you don't drive a benz

Your church is not a real church because...
     its a storefront.

...etc
   
     




Jones, (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:E1oXPnUUu37LDM:http://requiemofthought.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/question-mark.jpg)
U'r being sarcastic, right?

Wolfram, i think you & Mintdakid are both good guys, i just think Mint was a little excited about the issue and may not have used the best word in describing his side (which is what kinda put you off a bit). lol

But Wolf, i think with the continuing dialogue (like what's happening), things tend to work themselves out. Such as, your further explanation & feelings on the matter. What you said may have allowed for Mint to (if not change) perhaps soften his view on the matter, or to see it from a different angle. A little clarity can go a long way. 8)


certainly 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 17, 2008, 02:33:18 PM
([url]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii314/Jlaws318/snoopsmh.gif[/url])

Even though this is funny as heck to me, LOL.


Ditto. I drive a BMW, am I not a real baller? Shot Caller? :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 17, 2008, 03:12:25 PM
Ditto. I drive a BMW, am I not a real baller? Shot Caller? :D

Bwahahaha :D ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 17, 2008, 10:30:35 PM
Let me break this down this way... calling another musician a hack is not an "opinion"  it is an insult.   

It would be like me saying to someone that using loop based sequencers to write music means they are not a real musician or If you use drum loops, you are not a real musician or if you can't read music you are not a real musician. 

What makes a real musician is is the ability to feel the music and to get others to do the same.  I am an A-List musician...  Maybe you don't have a clue what that is...  It means that when somebody needs a sax player or a keys player, I am near the top of the call list, why?  Because I am the real deal.  I play with passion and fire, I come to the gig prepared, I don't make stupid mistakes and I don't have a holier than thou attitude about things that can assist on making the show work.  If the singer has a throat strain and we need to play something down a minor 3rd and we have never practiced it there and the concert is in twenty minutes...  I will use the transpose button and call it a day.  It is wiser and smarter to be a REAL MUSICIAN and save the show than blow the moment and fuddle through the performance just so you can go home and say you played something badly in the correct key.  You will NEVER get called again...  ONE bad performance...  that's right ONE is all it takes to write you off.  Are you willing to hang your righteous hat on that?  A REAL MUSICIAN knows what it takes to make the show work.  A REAL MUSICIAN know what it takes to make the church band sound good, even if that means taking a back seat to something.  REAL MUSICAINS are not concerned about the "me" but about the "Big Picture" because it is the entire picture that is important. 

Knowing that you have to do what you have to do is the sign of musical maturity.  Knowing that it is more important to have a succesful event than stroking your own ego is a sign of true musicianship.  When it comes right down to it, if you ask any of the heavy hitters here on this forum, they will tell you that whether or not the transpotion key is used, the end result is ultimately the most important thing.  You can dislike the use of the button yourself and I can respect that, don't disrespect the players that don't hold the same opinion though. 

Wolf

Ok Man.... You Seem upset ..I Repeat  that wasn't my intent  *Did Every body hear/see me say/type that the 1st time?


Don't really have time to go back and forth with you (As much as I would LOVE to) because I am too busy practicing so I'll never have to use the Transposition button ... I'm a  D List Musician don't really get 2 many gigs but as I Move up in LETTERS maybe my feelings will change about the Transpose button.........

Okay... No It Won't!!




Now I'm sure your going to respond in a defensive Manner.. But maybe we should take this Offline Because we are now becoming a Showcase .. PM me,  Email me,  Call ME...
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 17, 2008, 10:34:23 PM
Wolfram, i think you & Mintdakid are both good guys, i just think Mint was a little excited about the issue and may not have used the best word in describing his side (which is what kinda put you off a bit). lol

But Wolf, i think with the continuing dialogue (like what's happening), things tend to work themselves out. Such as, your further explanation & feelings on the matter. What you said may have allowed for Mint to (if not change) perhaps soften his view on the matter, or to see it from a different angle. A little clarity can go a long way. 8)


WOW!! I Guess I am Not Making the Best Impression on this Messageboard .. Well I've never been one for Popularity  ....But Let me Clarify

I Meant EVERY thing I said.... and I Don't REGRET saying it ..  Now I didn't Mean to OFFEND my BROTHER but I Don't REGRET saying it whatsoever and I'll Stand by it 

REAL MUSICIANS do not TRANSPOSE..
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 17, 2008, 11:54:35 PM
...I am too busy practicing so I'll never have to use the Transposition button ... I'm a  D List Musician don't really get 2 many gigs but as I Move up in LETTERS maybe my feelings will change about the Transpose button.........




Hey MDK,
I'm glad that you work to show thyself approved a vessel  in all respects when it comes to your craft.
I certainly wouldn't classify you as a D-list musician...& we all know that you are an A-list! ;) :-X
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 18, 2008, 02:38:18 AM

WOW!! I Guess I am Not Making the Best Impression on this Messageboard .. Well I've never been one for Popularity  ....But Let me Clarify

I Meant EVERY thing I said.... and I Don't REGRET saying it ..  Now I didn't Mean to OFFEND my BROTHER but I Don't REGRET saying it whatsoever and I'll Stand by it 

REAL MUSICIANS do not TRANSPOSE..


See?...I tried to have ya back, now you're takin it too far! lol....I personally feel that one should learn all 12 keys and not HAVE to use a transpose button. BUT, i already shut this nonsense down in my Stevie Wonder scenario (somewhere around here lol), that can NOT even be argued!

As a matter of fact, let me go find it! lol


Stevie Wonder using a transposer in church, because he can only play in 11 keys, but the song was in that 12th key is not against any church rules, and nor is Stevie competing against anyone in worship service.

So to say "Stevie Wonder is not a real musician just because of this scenario" (hypothetical example)......Mike Tyson tells me that's "ludicrist!" lol

Stevie is still as bad (meaning good), as we all know, he just has a "limitation" in one key, so he used the transpose button that Sunday and blessed somebody. But Berry Gordy DID tease him afterwards about learning to play in that 12th key! lol 8)

Now, i'm not so sure you're prepared to say that an "11 key, transpose button using" Stevie Wonder, is NOT a "real musician"!! lol (If so, let me stand back, so i don't get hit with the lightning bolts!)

The idea of LEARNING ALL KEYS is sound advice. But the " insulting and inaccurate characterizations" of musicians, is where you "play yourself". You can make your point without falling in error, by mischaracterizing other musicians. This is no more than "word games". Get accurate with your words, and you'll be alright. 8)

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 18, 2008, 12:09:38 PM
I guess then that I won't be worrying about bumping into you in any of the circles that I play in then...  The circle of "real, working musicians..."

wolf
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 19, 2008, 12:34:22 AM
I guess then that I won't be worrying about bumping into you in any of the circles that I play in then...  The circle of "real, working musicians..."

wolf


Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....


That was a Good One!!!! 

Sounds like something an A-List Musician http://[i](Who Tranposes) [/i]   would Say... 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 19, 2008, 07:26:14 AM
Well I guess I could do it your way and allow my ego to trip up the entire performance...  Yeah, that sounds right.  That is the way to do it.  A few minutes before show time, gotta completly change the performace key from the original way you rehearsed... Man, what will Mint think if I think about my audience first and use the transpose key?  I fumble through this in a completely different key, without rehearsal so Mint can think I am a real musician... phew....  Yeah, that's what is important....NOT!

As I said in the same post...I chose to transpose to save the show.  I later came back and practiced it in that key.  We did not have the time or luxury to have an ego about this.  A real musician can distinguish the difference...  I imagine that it is great fun playing music all by yourself where big decisions are never part of your life.  You talk a big line but you don't seem to have any real world experience to me.  Making tracks out of your bedroom doesn't count. 

I remember when the Yamaha DX-7 came out.  "real musicians" like yourself thought that this was the end of music.  I mean here we had an instrument the emulated the rhodes and the piano and brass and strings...  I bet you have several synths in your room or at least computer models of synths.  The same arguement can be said of the B3.  The clones were the death of the B3...  No true B3 player would be caught dead playing one... hmmm the arguement still rages on...

Your arguement is far from unique.  You like sounding like a musical tough guy...  "I NEVER do THIS"... Great..  Good for you.  Your opinion shows that you have a much further journey to travel than most here.  Regardless of your talent level, your maturity level is suffering.  There are no absolutes in music.  When you get older and gain some more musical insight, maybe that wisdom will come to you. 

Here is an example...  I do not LIKE Rap music...  I respect it as a musical form however.  There are good attributes that I see in the music regardless of that fact that I do not find it my cup of tea.  I do not like the sampling and the cursing, but I like the freedom and rhythm.  My opinion differs from many...  It is only my opinion...  These people are still musicians... 

This is the last entry on this subject I am going to post.  I believe that we had good dialogue going for a while and then it becomes blind again.  I do not understand the fascination everyone has with worrying about what others are doing.  Why not just perfect your own craft and stop worrying about the other guy/gal?  It would be so much more efficient use of your time if you would practice your own stuff and let the other person worry about their stuff.

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 19, 2008, 01:44:02 PM
Still going?   :-\
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 19, 2008, 04:23:13 PM
Still going?   :-\


(http://cardsonque.com/cards/Just%20wondering.jpg)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: 4hisglory on June 20, 2008, 11:16:43 AM
Still going?   :-\

Hahhahhaa
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 20, 2008, 12:42:50 PM
Hahhahhaa
I'm just sayin' at some point we need to agree to disagree and keep it moving.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 20, 2008, 12:43:49 PM
I'm just sayin' at some point we need to agree to disagree and keep it moving.

I thought we did that on page 3?
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 20, 2008, 12:55:30 PM
I thought we did that on page 3?
I guess we all didn't didn't do that.   :-\
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: 4hisglory on June 20, 2008, 12:58:38 PM
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button).  If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 20, 2008, 01:32:45 PM
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button).  If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :D
Right you are!  I'd rather have discussions about how we can be better musicians and not worry about those that are perfectly cool with transposing.  Let them take care of themselves.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Wolfram on June 20, 2008, 04:36:55 PM
I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.


Best of luck to all of you in the future.

Peace, out.

Wolfram
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: 4hisglory on June 20, 2008, 04:51:14 PM
I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.


Best of luck to all of you in the future.

Peace, out.

Wolfram

I was just joking around.  If you feel that transposing is alright, that's cool.  I did not mean to offend. anyone.  You are a working musician and know what it take to make it in the business. 

So even though I may not agree, I can definitely agree to disagree (like someone already said).
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 20, 2008, 06:39:36 PM
I'm just sayin' at some point we need to agree to disagree and keep it moving.
I thought we did that on page 3?
I guess we all didn't didn't do that.   :-\
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button).  If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :D

 :D :D :D LMBO

Right you are!  I'd rather have discussions about how we can be better musicians and not worry about those that are perfectly cool with transposing.  Let them take care of themselves.

& that's a RAPP!!

I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.
Best of luck to all of you in the future.

Peace, out.

Wolfram

 :'( :'( :'(
Oh Wolfram...Please don't tell me you were referring to the comment 4HG posted?
If you were, then I think you misintepreted him :(

When I looked at his statement, I thought he was talking strictly about those people who only know how to play in 1 key or +/-3 at most  & have no intention whatsoever to LEARN to play in other keys!!People who'd tell you that there is NO NEED AT ALL TO LEARN TO PLAY IN OTHER KEYS BECAUSE THE TRANSPOSE BUTTON HAS THEM COVERED.

You are a jewel here & your input in all the threads has been invaluable..it would be a tragedy to have you stay out :'(

I'm sure you got the message now--it's 1 thing to learn to play in 1 key & say it's mission accomplished because you know you have the transpos button to help you out.
It's a completely different story to be able to play in all the keys, but knowing that should you not be in a position to play particular pieces in their original key, you have the the transpose feature to help you kill it & save the show rather than give a not so great performance because you want to prove to yourself that you can play in any & all keys! Yes, it's an indesputable fact that you can play in any key, for practical reasons, sometimes one has to think about the people s/he is serving than their self fulfilment.

You are a great teacher WR, sorry you took offence in that.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 21, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button).  If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :D

I think the "red" part is a false statement, which seems to suggest to know someone's "motives".

I haven't seen  ANYONE on this thread that advocates "not learning" all 12 keys. Not even ONE!

However, i HAVE witnessed "word game semantics" in this and the other "transpose thread", attempting to define who's a "real" musician, and who's not. (which is an easy answer, and really not even a valid debate) lol

And to end this "smoke & mirrors bickering", it all comes down to "The Stevie Wonder Question":



"If Stevie Wonder could only play in 11 keys, but on the spot, needed to play in that 12th key, so he pressed the transpose button...."is Stevie still a real musician?"



100% of anybody with a functioning brain would say "yes!"...he should absolutely learn that 12th key, but the answer is still "YES!"

Because, that button does not have the power to define Stevie Wonder's overall musicianship!

*End of phony debate*
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The better question would be:






The answer is a resounding "YES!"

That is the "accurate" way to characterize it - no "word games semantics".

This way they get to "both", KEEP their musicianship, but also are pushed, encouraged, & implored to learn all 12 keys! It's called: "Walking & chewing gum at the same time". 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: seemunny on June 21, 2008, 12:31:37 AM
I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.


Best of luck to all of you in the future.

Peace, out.

Wolfram

Wolfie, don't take it completely personal. Nothing is being aimed directly at "Wolfram". It's just a matter of ferreting out the most common sense understanding through dialogue. And you may get those on the left, those on the right, and those in the middle.

It's a "those" thing, not a personal "Wolfram" thing. Just keep sharing your thoughts & views - people were hearing & valuing what you had to say (perhaps, unbeknownst to you). 8)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 21, 2008, 02:38:22 AM
Wolfie, don't take it completely personal. Nothing is being aimed directly at "Wolfram". It's just a matter of ferreting out the most common sense understanding through dialogue. And you may get those on the left, those on the right, and those in the middle.

It's a "those" thing, not a personal "Wolfram" thing. Just keep sharing your thoughts & views - people were hearing & valuing what you had to say (perhaps, unbeknownst to you). 8)

The Great Minstrel has Uttered!
& the whole congregation said amen :)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on June 21, 2008, 05:42:26 PM
"If Stevie Wonder could only play in 11 keys, but on the spot, needed to play in that 12th key, so he pressed the transpose button...."is Stevie still a real musician?"

100% of anybody with a functioning brain would say "yes!"...he should absolutely learn that 12th key, but the answer is still "YES!"

I will say this, Transposing or not, Stevie Wonder is a musician just because he can rip the keys BLIND.  He plays better as a blind person than most people who can see.  Now, if that don't give him credibility as a musician, I don't know what will.

As far as the T-button debate, to each his own.  Yall already know where I stand wit it.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 21, 2008, 05:57:13 PM


As far as the T-button debate, to each his own. 

exactly. dont take other people's opinions personally.

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 23, 2008, 09:37:50 AM
exactly. dont take other people's opinions personally.


You've definately taught us how to do that.   ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 23, 2008, 09:39:36 AM
You've definately taught us how to do that.   ;D

likewise
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musicmajordjs on June 24, 2008, 01:50:40 PM
Well at my church we have a Hammond XB-3M it is alright. It comes with a transposer on it. It lack the original B-3 sound slightly. We have another organ which is an original B-3 without the transposer on it so when we play that one it is best to know all 12 keys. thats why we try to use the transposer on the other one as little as possible.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 24, 2008, 04:55:36 PM
Well I guess I could do it your way and allow my ego to trip up the entire performance...  Yeah, that sounds right.  That is the way to do it.  A few minutes before show time, gotta completly change the performace key from the original way you rehearsed... Man, what will Mint think if I think about my audience first and use the transpose key?  I fumble through this in a completely different key, without rehearsal so Mint can think I am a real musician... phew....  Yeah, that's what is important....NOT!

As I said in the same post...I chose to transpose to save the show.  I later came back and practiced it in that key.  We did not have the time or luxury to have an ego about this.  A real musician can distinguish the difference...  I imagine that it is great fun playing music all by yourself where big decisions are never part of your life.  You talk a big line but you don't seem to have any real world experience to me.  Making tracks out of your bedroom doesn't count. 

I remember when the Yamaha DX-7 came out.  "real musicians" like yourself thought that this was the end of music.  I mean here we had an instrument the emulated the rhodes and the piano and brass and strings...  I bet you have several synths in your room or at least computer models of synths.  The same arguement can be said of the B3.  The clones were the death of the B3...  No true B3 player would be caught dead playing one... hmmm the arguement still rages on...

Your arguement is far from unique.  You like sounding like a musical tough guy...  "I NEVER do THIS"... Great..  Good for you.  Your opinion shows that you have a much further journey to travel than most here.  Regardless of your talent level, your maturity level is suffering.  There are no absolutes in music.  When you get older and gain some more musical insight, maybe that wisdom will come to you. 

Here is an example...  I do not LIKE Rap music...  I respect it as a musical form however.  There are good attributes that I see in the music regardless of that fact that I do not find it my cup of tea.  I do not like the sampling and the cursing, but I like the freedom and rhythm.  My opinion differs from many...  It is only my opinion...  These people are still musicians... 

This is the last entry on this subject I am going to post.  I believe that we had good dialogue going for a while and then it becomes blind again.  I do not understand the fascination everyone has with worrying about what others are doing.  Why not just perfect your own craft and stop worrying about the other guy/gal?  It would be so much more efficient use of your time if you would practice your own stuff and let the other person worry about their stuff.



Man, what will Mint think if I think about my audience first and use the transpose key?  I fumble through this in a completely different key, without rehearsal so Mint can think I am a real musician... phew....  Yeah, that's what is important....NOT!

HAA....

I have Enjoyed this discussion  Seriously I Have, It's Good to hear others Point of View on this Topic specially if your opposed..   I Wish you the best in all you do ... Real Talk

Transposing is something that I  was never exposed to as a Child so I've never had the unction to do/use it ..

I Still believe if you've been playing for over 10 years there is know reason to use this Function but then again who knows.. I know my Theory so I Can Play any Progression and lick in any Key  its nothing Spectacular I Was just Determined to learn it It's all about Patterns Man... I Am Jazz Based so I Was Raised on the Baby Grand and the B3  I Had my Motif for almost 4 years and I Dont even know where the transpose button is located


But again my Motives was not to Lit a Fire I Was just Expressing how I Feel

So Continue to do your Thing Homie!
 
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 25, 2008, 08:56:57 AM
*yawn*
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on June 25, 2008, 09:42:23 AM
could someone page Dr. Kevorkian to this thread?
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 25, 2008, 10:07:07 AM
could someone page Dr. Kevorkian to this thread?
Indeed Wolfie.  This is one of those moments I wish Al Gore had not invented the internet.  :-\
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 25, 2008, 02:57:47 PM
*yawn*

I’m just responding to this Cat man, I’m not trying Beat a Dead Horse; I’m just responding anything less would be irRESPONSible on my behalf!!! 

I thought that was the purpose of a Message Board

If not..? Then My bad..  I’m on this MB so I Can learn new things .. So Quick someone show me how can I flip a 7 . 3. 6 grove in D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: themidiroom on June 25, 2008, 03:11:28 PM
I’m just responding to this Cat man, I’m not trying Beat a Dead Horse; I’m just responding anything less would be irRESPONSible on my behalf!!! 
I thought that was the purpose of a Message Board
If not..? Then My bad.. 
Right you are.  You have a right to respond and I have a right to yawn.   :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: under13 on June 25, 2008, 03:13:57 PM
You dont have to respond. Every argument must come to an end. And you dont always have to have the last word.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musicmajordjs on June 25, 2008, 03:41:45 PM
Well just put it like this you can say the musician is good in the key(s) that he or she can play in......................but it isn't good for the musician to boast as if he or she is the best around and cant play in the key of "A" or "B" but is a beast in "C".

AMEN
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on June 25, 2008, 04:00:17 PM
Right you are.  You have a right to respond and I have a right to yawn.   :D
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Love the Sarcasm!! 

I think I am Going to fit right In
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on June 25, 2008, 04:10:12 PM
So Quick someone show me how can I flip a 7 . 3. 6 grove in D


Ok, to make this something beautiful, let me focus on this:
So how can we flip a 7-3-6 groove in D into something sweet?

Do you have an answer Mint or anyone?

Before I attempt, how would you normally play this groove Mint? Do you mind laying it all down..
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musicmajordjs on June 25, 2008, 09:47:51 PM
Well to Mint I have to say this the bible records umm..... ha... LOL let every man/woman work out their own soul salvaton.....in music terms if they want to be lazy let them get fat and useless over a period of time but if they want to work out let them be healthy and use their muscles. Remember all musicians you will not always play in a mega church setting as myelf or other musicians so remember most old baptist churches still have old out of tune pianos and untransposable organs (actually there is a trick to do it) so all musicians think do you want to be fat or muscular. Amen. ;)
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on August 09, 2008, 08:34:52 AM
Wa - Sup Levites...

It's been a minute  .. I Was ran off the 1st time  :) But now I am back with confidence   (LOL) 

Just wanted yall to hear this blazing new single that is sweeping the nation

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=142655465&MyToken=2931ed3d-edd2-413a-8726-a36860d5d202 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=142655465&MyToken=2931ed3d-edd2-413a-8726-a36860d5d202)

The name of the song is CHICKEN    

Enjoy
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on August 09, 2008, 08:55:54 PM
Awesome song man..U are really talented 8)
Thanks for sharing..
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on August 11, 2008, 09:04:21 PM
Awesome song man..U are really talented 8)
Thanks for sharing..

Thanks Bro!

Continue to pray for my Mind!

lol
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on August 12, 2008, 07:54:55 PM
Thanks Bro!

Continue to pray for my Mind!

lol

I will actually be praying for your mind.. :D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Lamonte 1990 on August 14, 2008, 10:50:53 PM
Ok, let me stand back, cause i don't like lightning!

"It is written, for God is not the author of tranposition, but of some good songs and pieces, in the 12 keys of Israel"...1 Corentheeans 12:8 8)

"NOW Keys and songs are the substance of practice hoped for, and the evidence of "Transposing" Not seen"

Hebrewsfolgers 11:1

Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: Mintdakid on August 15, 2008, 10:52:57 AM
Ok, to make this something beautiful, let me focus on this:
So how can we flip a 7-3-6 groove in D into something sweet?

Do you have an answer Mint or anyone?

Before I attempt, how would you normally play this groove Mint? Do you mind laying it all down..


Whoa,,  I didn't even see this


I usually play this change like a 2 5 1 in B Natural   I don’t have my board in front of me but let me see if I can remember


Key of D
Lh/RH

C#/E, F#,B
F# or C/ E,G,C

B/ D,F#,A,B

   
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on August 15, 2008, 08:30:08 PM
Ok, how do you make this into a groove? like the voices you use; tempo & rhythm?

I'll work on mine & give those specs as well so that you have a closer feel of what I'll be hearing.
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: T-Block on August 16, 2008, 07:07:57 AM
"NOW Keys and songs are the substance of practice hoped for, and the evidence of "Transposing" Not seen"

Hebrewsfolgers 11:1

I like that.  ;D
Title: Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
Post by: musallio on August 16, 2008, 05:43:47 PM
Okey, as promised, here is my lil "twisted" groove in Dmaj:

Instrumentation: Split Fingerbass /Electric Piano
Rhythm: Oldie Ballad
Tempo: 70-75 bpm

7-3-6-2 groove in D

C# or F/D-A#-B-E   [7]
F# or C/E-A-A#-D   [3]
B-B/ D-E-F#-A-C#  [6]
E/ D-F#-A-B-D       [2]

repeat once then..

C#/E-A#-B-D       [7]
F#/D-A-A#-E       [3]
B/E-A-C#-F#       [6]
E/D-F#-G#-A-C#  [2]

(repeat from top or freestyle as rhythm leads ;D)

tip: The fingering might take a couple of rounds to be comfortable.