nice 1 mate :D :D 8) 8) ;) :D ;D
Got them looking :D
HAHAHAHA! Yeah Musallio! Got about 62 people trying to find a secret way to transpose! :oI'm looking around for a twenty foot pole to not touch that with.
BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)
HAHAHAHA! Yeah Musallio! Got about 62 people trying to find a secret way to transpose! :oI was playing at a program about a month ago and they have a Hammond B3000 (which I hate) Well their musician didn't tell me he had it transposed so when I start to play the song and it was in the wrong key, I just about lost it. It's so rude to transpose and then not switch it back when you are done playing.
BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)
BLASPHEMY! God said in Deuteronomee 12:16 "Thou shalt learn to playeth in every keyeth!" 8)
I liketh that. Shouldn't that be in Exomdus though? LOL! :D
If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction. It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.
If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction. It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.
I was playing at a program about a month ago and they have a Hammond B3000 (which I hate) Well their musician didn't tell me he had it transposed so when I start to play the song and it was in the wrong key, I just about lost it. It's so rude to transpose and then not switch it back when you are done playing.
If I recall, there is a device you can buy that will allow you to adjust the tuning by a few semi-tones in each direction. It alters the frequency of the AC which the tone generator motor synchronizes with.
Ok, let me stand back, cause i don't like lightning!
"It is written, for God is not the author of tranposition, but of some good songs and pieces, in the 12 keys of Israel"...1 Corentheeans 12:8 8)
I've heard about that..& some organs come with it..actually, I've seen this Techniks organ at this music store with a transpose feature..so some organists have it easy these days([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/url])
WOW, I think me and u need to start a music Bible, LOL!!! ;) :D ;D
What is a Transposer, And How do you Become One?
How’s the Pay
([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/hahaha.gif[/url])
hehe.U sho doo sim to have an indepth understendiing of thiiz books (Exomdus , Deutoronomee, let's see, what's next...I Pitza([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/laughter.gif[/url]))
It sure will be a bible that convicts people to strictly observe all the do's & don'ts of music :D :D ([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/rulez.gif[/url])([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/thumb.gif[/url])
I know u were probably joking man, but here is some answers to your questions:
A transposer is one who can ONLY play in one or a few keys. W/out the transpose button, they are the sorriest musicians known to man, LOL. J/K bout dat last sentence, but they are indeed garbage outside they key.
How do you become one? Just learn everything in one key and hit the transpose button for every other key. Of course, it does take an extra skill to be a good transposer. You gotta know what key to tranpose 2, how many times to hit the button, how to smootly modulate in the middle of a song using that button, etc. In the short run it's faster, but in the long run it's actually harder than learning to play in every key.
From what I hear (& see), the pay is great cuz most churches don't really give a care. As long as u can hit a note, u can start with $100 a sunday easy. The true musicians know this is not the way to go.
From what I hear (& see), the pay is great cuz most churches don't really give a care. As long as u can hit a note, u can start with $100 a sunday easy.
The true musicians know this is not the way to go.
So true. not every church has a keyboard. The Transposer will be straight up embarresed when the soloist modulates and they have to stop playingWe have no keyboards, only B3 and a piano. If you did go to churches with a keyboard, would you always know how to transpose it?
We have no keyboards, only B3 and a piano. If you did go to churches with a keyboard, would you always know how to transpose it?
We have no keyboards, only B3 and a piano. If you did go to churches with a keyboard, would you always know how to transpose it?
As a former keyboard salesman, YES....... ;D ;DI could pretty much figure it out if it's a Roland, Yamaha, or Korg. I have a Studiologic controller and another musician couldn't figure out how to transpose it. I let him sweat a little before I offered to help.
I could pretty much figure it out if it's a Roland, Yamaha, or Korg. I have a Studiologic controller and another musician couldn't figure out how to transpose it. I let him sweat a little before I offered to help.
I own a Yamaha MO8, and I have no idea how to transpose.
That doesn't mean I'm a beast. That's not the case. I'd just rather work out a song in a different key than transpose. So I never learned how to use it.
I don't think it's quite that serious. :D
Transposing is the worse thing ever created.
I don't think it's quite that serious. :D
Oh, but it is!I just focus on my abilities and work towards growing as a musician. There are a lot of folks that transpose and that's not going to change, so I don't worry about them.
Depending on what your goal as a musician is. If you wanna be a keyboard player, then go ahead and transpose. But if you wanna be a piano or organ player the you need to be ready for any key.
Its almost like using steroids
Transposing is the worse thing ever created.
SHOOOOT, guitar players do it ALL DE TIME....
SHOOOOT, guitar players do it ALL DE TIME....
I stopped worrying about what others thought about my playing and whether or not I used or did not use the transpose feature on a keyboard or not. I have used it when things were crucial and the singer came up with a sore throat last minute and it was a paid gig. No sense sounding bad purely because my ego needed stroked. The show or in this case the service was the most important thing. Can I play in twelve keys, yes. Do I want to slop through something with a a house full of people that are expecting a great concert merely because I have to proove to everyone that "Look ma, no transpose button!"? OR do I play it as we have rehearsed for weeks to get the performance as perfect as we can so the singer sounds great and no one is the wiser. I choose to not allow my ego to over-ride my common sense.Very well said.
I play organ... The XK-3 kind. There are numerous hisses and despairing remarks about these new fangled electronic instruments not sounding like the real deal. I have to beg to differ. I run mine through a 145 Leslie and it screams.
The great thing about opinions is that everyone is entitled to theirs. You all have yours. I respect the fact that you believe what you do. I disagree because it is not practical in all cases and shows a very small minded view of what music is about as a whole. It is not about transposers and cappos. It is about what lies underneath. If you really believe that the only thing that makes a musician great is their ability to play without transposition, you really no nothing about music at all....
Very well said.
Indeed...very well said Wolfie....I was like, what'd i say?
I was like, what'd i say?There's a new wolf in town. ;D
lolz..
There's a new wolf in town. ;D;D
Indeed...very well said Wolfie....
I know a number of guys who've been playing for over a decade & all they know is 1 key..but bottom line is that people like what they play & invite them all over time & time again, not a single person in the audience's ever complained about them not sounding in tune ::)
I also love the way they play...
I've tried to talk them all into learning the other keys--others don't want to think of it, some do..
I respect all their choices because at the end of the day it's their own personal development & goals they've set themselves...
I also used the transpose this Sunday after I had failed to play a particular song the way I wanted to in it's original key. It was only me who felt let down, but a man's gonna do what a man's gotto do sometimes. It would be ok if I was just practicing & I contunued in that challenging key, but not when the congregation is busy dancing & I hinder them.
Everything flowed with more vigor after I had transposed & no 1 condemned me for it.
But amidst all that, I still strive to master all the keys because it's where I want to be at, whether people notice it or not..I get my sense of achievement no so much from people giving me accolades, but me knowing I'd done what I'd set out to do..Just like when I fail, most of the dissappointment is directed towards myself & I couldn't care less that some1 was waiting for me to stumble.([url]http://ctasa.freeforums.org/images/smiles/icon_neutral.gif[/url])
On the flip side of things... I do encourage a constant growth in everyone's progress in music. I, for example, will learn continue to practice this particular song in all 11 other keys so that it feels as smooth as butter to me no matter where I play it so that if this happens again, I will not have to use the transposition key option. I do not, however feel like I cheated anyone out of a great performance. I just know that it will bug me, personally to not have something under my fingers. The time for this feeling happens to me in practice, never in performance. The performance is for the people.
I have known several music people that will only play music on the black, meaning Eb, Ab, Gb, Db. They cannot fathom extending themselves out to playing something outside of this realm. Why do they do this? It all started out because it was 1) Playing on just the black keys is an easier way to start off sounding good. 2) We learn by rote. Many have gone down this path before us... 3) We tend to play in the style and ways that those around us push us to play in.
A rock keyboard player will be stronger in the guitar keys of E, A, B etc.. because he plays in those keys all the time.. A gospel player is stronger in the flatted versions of those keys.
When we start to look at hand position, there is a HUGE comfort level to consider. Muscle memory comes into play and so does knowing your musical theory. Making the jump to play in keys that you are unfamiliar with is not simply diving in and hacking away at a piece of wood. You have to approach each new key with a plan. You have to look at how the voicings will work together and how you will interconnect the song to make the song into MUSIC. It is not merely mimicking the original key's tune into another tonal center, it is recreating it in another tonal COLOR.
Eb Major does not have the same tonal sound as B major. D Major does not remotely sound like Ab Major. Each tonal center has it's own sound COLOR. We have to take this into consideration when we take about transposition otherwise you can take an otherwise light sounding melody and make it sound heavy and dreary because all you really did was mimic your voicing instead of making your voicing key specific.
In Jazz, we get this a lot. You cannot voice lead the same way once you change the keys of a song because the song is either darker or lighter sounding. Ask yourself this. When you want to change the keys of a song during worship to add energy, do you go up in the key or down? If you answered up, you are correct. Linearly shifting the key up adds energy, you should also look at how you are voicing your chords. That could also add energy... or maybe you are taking it away by merely mimicking?
Just some things to think about
Just some things to think aboutWolfram, very profound insight you have. When I started playing for a church in 03, I was terrified at the thought of playing in all those flat keys. I transposed for a few months until I got the hang of learning intervals in those other keys. I felt bad about having to do it but I'm glad I did.
I know that when guys ask me to help them out & I explain to them that I'll give them theory as part of the package, they never return..at the same time they want to do it in all the keys..4 show off I think :-\)
Man, this happens to me so much. I start off my lessons with theory. After that first lesson, they gone to the next person. It doesn't really bother me, it just saddens me a little. I got one faithful student right now (in person that is), so I'll just work with her.
Aww man, they don't wanna do all the stretchin & calisthenics & meditation! They wanna get to the kicks & chops as soon as possible! lol
They sayin: "you can't mediate somebody across the room!...you got to kick 'em!" lol 8)
i just hope the "martial arts metaphor" was made clear enough. lol
Man, this happens to me so much. I start off my lessons with theory. After that first lesson, they gone to the next person. It doesn't really bother me, it just saddens me a little. I got one faithful student right now (in person that is), so I'll just work with her.
That's it, the old "walk(run)-before-you-crawl(walk)" attitude. It's a serious disease that's affecting musicians everywhere.
Also, everybody learns different. Some people learn better with their ear or by sheet music as oposed to theory. Theory isnt the only way to learn. And if there is one person who is gonna slinging theory right and left, its you T-block. :DI have to agree with you. There was a lot of theory that I just didn't "get" when I was younger and less experienced. Now that I've been playing for years, it makes a lot more sense to me and theory combined with experience works well for me at this point.
If I knew last year, what I do now, then I probaly would have kept going to lessons.
I have to agree with you. There was a lot of theory that I just didn't "get" when I was younger and less experienced. Now that I've been playing for years, it makes a lot more sense to me and theory combined with experience works well for me at this point.
I have to agree with you. There was a lot of theory that I just didn't "get" when I was younger and less experienced. Now that I've been playing for years, it makes a lot more sense to me and theory combined with experience works well for me at this point.
And not to say that theory should not be taught at first, but you gotta mix it up with what the student is used to.When I took lessons way back when, it was all theory. Learning music was not interesting of fun to me and as far as ear training, you could hang it up. The key is to assess what you want out of it and find a teacher that can keep you on track. I left my teacher and never looked back.
When I took lessons way back when, it was all theory. Learning music was not interesting or fun to me.....The key is to assess what you want out of it and find a teacher that can keep you on track.
...to be taught Theory with "no context" of what it's used for, would just bored me to death. However, if you told me "listen to this tight musician (it might even be Stevie Wonder in an impromptu Shed! lol) - you hear those fly chords he's playing? This theory will help you understand & play ALL THAT stuff much quicker!"....Man...i'm THERE! Bring it! lol...see what i mean?
You get all the filling that you want but it is messy and no one can stand to talk to you until you clean yourself up afterwards.Funny.
;D
Funny.
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach. I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory. I think I was pretty good. Theory connects the dots for me now. I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know. If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard. ;D
Funny.
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach. I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory. I think I was pretty good. Theory connects the dots for me now. I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know. If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard. ;D
I play from my heart first. I am also VERY grateful that I took the time to beat theory into my mind so I can expand my musical vocabulary beyond what it was in the beginning.I agree with you on that. However, I know a few guys that are great musicians and can play anything but don't know a lick of theory. I don't think any less of them for it either.
Think about how awesome they would be with a little bit of knowledge.I don't think about it because they are adults and have made their own decisions about musicianship. I take them as they are and leave it at that.
Wow, amazing how this thread has turned into a theory thread with just me gone into isolation for the weekend :D :DI agree with Wolfram as well. I have no problems with theory at all. I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.
Midiroom, I get you well with your last comment, but I have to agree with Wolfram..
I agree with Wolfram as well. I have no problems with theory at all. I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.
We can go back to the Dark Ages and blame the monks for ruining the originality of purely non theory music.I digress. Dang monks! :)
Theory does not have to be heavy. It can be incorporated into your regular playing. Just consider it a painters palette of colors. Do you want one choice or hundreds?
I agree with Wolfram as well. I have no problems with theory at all. I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.
U sure bout dat? Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.
So "theoretically", an "ear player", is still using theory! lol 8)
NO
When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.
When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.
Thats Just how I see it.
U sure bout dat? Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.Still digressing.
That is EXACTLY the difference... You can combine the two, but the fundamentals of theory are cognitive thought. A person versed in theory can think ahead of the game MUCH faster. There is a logical sequence to what is coming up.
I played sax by ear (not in my ear, BY ear). I was REALLY good. I never took a lesson and toured all over the country playing for thousands of people. I then went to college and got theory... My sax playing took off through the roof because someone handed me a paint store of musical colors to play with. I had this HUGE warehouse of things I could pull from now that I did not even know existed because playing be ear, I had to hear it first, playing with a theory foundation meant I could just create it.
W
NO
When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.
When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.
Thats Just how I see it.
lol Naw man! I said "yall were splitting hairs" to the point that....you could say just about Anything had some theory "technically speaking".
Because, if you think about it, when people say "play by ear", they just mean, "never learned how to read notation". Therefore, "playing be ear" = sight, sound, and discovery. And when you hear something, then you attempt to play it....once you finally learn it, you start to develop a personal system.
For instance, you might know at certain places in a song that you can play "certain notes". You don't have a NAME for the notes, but the name might be "the pentatonic scale". That name is a part of theory, and you had NO CLUE! You just knew it sounded good!lol
So my whole point is: When T-block asked in a hair splitting kinda way (lol) if you were sure that theory wasn't around FIRST, my example might be part of what he was referring to.
Of course i understand that theory is a system that someone(s) gave thought to, in terms of figuring out how music works....but ear players on a much smaller, personal level, do the same thing! lol...But they haven't given it names, and nor can they normally take it as far as "currently known theory along with eary", because "There's no need to reinvent the wheel, when it's already been invented for you!" lol
This was a lighthearted response to a post. I encourage ALL musicians to learn a certain level of theory. Because as i said previously somewhere: "theory & eary" work together as a TEAM! One lifts the other, and the other lifts the one. And however much you already know by ear, the theory will only "upgrade" it, and help you get to that next level. 8)
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:
Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?
FEAR - You are afraid to try. You are afraid to fail. You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing. You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing. You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were. You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining. You are afraid of working hard. You are afraid of commitment. You are afraid that you might be missing something. You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need.
LAZINESS: It takes too much time. It takes too much effort. Theory is too complicated. I'd rather go __________. I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...
EGO: I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory? I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me. I have done just fine without learning theory.
Here is the problem... This shows ignorance. The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned. Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'? If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey. I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper... I am not talking about just theory either. I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories. Youtube alone is HUGE!
Anyway, say what ever you will... I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today. This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago. There are no more excuses.
If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music. Embrace the profession / art. Learn the WHOLE craft. Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...
There are no more excuses.
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:
Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?
FEAR - You are afraid to try. You are afraid to fail. You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing. You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing. You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were. You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining. You are afraid of working hard. You are afraid of commitment. You are afraid that you might be missing something. You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need.
LAZINESS: It takes too much time. It takes too much effort. Theory is too complicated. I'd rather go __________. I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...
EGO: I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory? I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me. I have done just fine without learning theory.
Here is the problem... This shows ignorance. The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned. Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'? If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey. I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper... I am not talking about just theory either. I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories. Youtube alone is HUGE!
Anyway, say what ever you will... I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today. This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago. There are no more excuses.
If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music. Embrace the profession / art. Learn the WHOLE craft. Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...
I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.
It's Friday morning and still digressing on this topic.
I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:
Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?
FEAR - You are afraid to try. You are afraid to fail. You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing. You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing. You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were. You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining. You are afraid of working hard. You are afraid of commitment. You are afraid that you might be missing something. You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need.
LAZINESS: It takes too much time. It takes too much effort. Theory is too complicated. I'd rather go __________. I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...
EGO: I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory? I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me. I have done just fine without learning theory.
Here is the problem... This shows ignorance. The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned. Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'? If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey. I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper... I am not talking about just theory either. I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories. Youtube alone is HUGE!
Anyway, say what ever you will... I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today. This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago. There are no more excuses.
If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music. Embrace the profession / art. Learn the WHOLE craft. Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...
If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear.
From the bass forum..
Re: to the theory heads
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 02:38:53 AM » Quote
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[url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,56240.80.html[/url]
Bottom line is:
Learning to play should be the best of both worlds. Because, since music is "sound", you obviously have to use your ears. But to become more proficient faster, theory can assist you.
When you understand some theory, it's not separated from your ear. In fact, your ear & theory will work in tandem with one another. One will boost the other, and the other will boost the one (so to speak).
You will learn aurally, then observe & dissect it intellectually. Your brain has stored it in two ways different ways now! You are better off, not worse off.
On a scale from 1 to 10, your ear might be at a level 4, but with theory, you can actually PLAY something at a level 8 (chords & progressions, etc...) - before you can even hear it yet!....THEN, your ear will eventually start to "catch up" with it.
When you purposely allow yourself to do it purely by ear, you are at the mercy of "waiting for the spirit to hit & waiting for new inspiration", before you can progress! With theory, BEFORE your ear gets there, you already have several intellectual options to pursue, and again, your ear will eventually catch up!
That's how your "ear & theory" works in tandem with one another! "The Dynamic Duo", as it were.
It is a good thing that you live in America, have access to the internet and are able to read the english language then. You do not HAVE to make this choice then....
I believe your arguement is heading toward the art vs. science arguement, which is something different entirely. I went to college with kids that could not play a lick of music that was not written down... Needless to say they were brilliant technicians but boring to listen to. THEY could have benefited from developing their ear more.
Now, the one thing that cannot be learned is heart / soul. You either have it or you don't. No theory or playing by ear will give you this edge. This ability is what makes people stop in their tracks and listen to you when you play. They are mesmerized by what you do... Add this to your theory and your playing by ear ability and you are something 'special'.
"Musallio The Detective!" lol....Great work man! I was too lazy to find my own archive, but you made up for it like Johnny on the spot! ([url]http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif[/url])
You went to that proverbial haystack and FOUND that needle! :D
8)
Wow...Could any wiser words come out from man's mouth!! I see TMR has thrown in the towel :D :D :P
hehehe..it didn't take me that long coz I just "bumped" into it as I was peeping in at the bass forum 8) ;)
Man, I'm only trying to be like you..like how you pick up the fine details that Diverse did Kung Fu for5115 years ;D
There IS one good use of the transpose button:
Out come the knives & guns! lol
Your transpose button can actually "help" you practice soloing in every key.
Play your favorite recording that you enjoy soloing to. The song might be in the key of Eb, so your fingers practice soloing in Eb. But, then press your transpose button to ANY other key. Now in order to stay in tune with your favorite recording, your fingers must play in a "new key!".
Repeat that process through every key, and there you have it - "the transpose button actually HELPING you to learn how to solo in EVERY key! 8)
Now, put your knives & guns away! lol
I am able to play along in all the keys. No need to transpose my keyboard because I just transpose the song.
Ok Fellas (and Ladies if any) I searched and Searched and Searched some more.. about these "Transposers" and After Searching I Realized something ….
I Don't Like Them ....
They are Mocking a Real Musician .. They are the Knock off's to Brand Name Musicians.. They Lack Authencity ….
They Must Be Stop…
deletedIt's hard to believe this topic is still alive. ::)
It's hard to believe this topic is still alive. ::)
Bretheren and Sisteren! I must say that this topic has amazed me to no end. I've read some good points and not so good, I will keep them to myself until I navigate around the board a little more.... ;D
In real musician you must mean the musician that can do it all. Read, compose, improvise and play in all style not just Gospel. They should be able to compose a serious piece of music AND transcribe it in standard notation. If a "Real Musician" is a person that can sit behind an instrument and receive the Annointing of God and transfer that Annointing to those in the congregation no matter what the situation and then turnaround and teach a group of non-gospel musicians academically what he/she just did, then sir he truly is a "Real Musician". Otherwise, we are just exchanging one lacking for another, one hole in the cloth for another.
I was rather upset to be told that I lack authenticity and that I am not a 'real musician'. I have explained in earlier posts my use of this feature in the concert setting. By your words, that makes me a fake musician.... That sir, is insulting...
Sorry you feel that way Bro.
It's not my intent 2 offend or insult you ..I'm just expressing MY feelings towards the subject
Let me break this down this way... calling another musician a hack is not an "opinion" it is an insult.
It would be like me saying to someone that using loop based sequencers to write music means they are not a real musician or If you use drum loops, you are not a real musician or if you can't read music you are not a real musician.
What makes a real musician is is the ability to feel the music and to get others to do the same. I am an A-List musician... Maybe you don't have a clue what that is... It means that when somebody needs a sax player or a keys player, I am near the top of the call list, why? Because I am the real deal. I play with passion and fire, I come to the gig prepared, I don't make stupid mistakes and I don't have a holier than thou attitude about things that can assist on making the show work. If the singer has a throat strain and we need to play something down a minor 3rd and we have never practiced it there and the concert is in twenty minutes... I will use the transpose button and call it a day. It is wiser and smarter to be a REAL MUSICIAN and save the show than blow the moment and fuddle through the performance just so you can go home and say you played something badly in the correct key. You will NEVER get called again... ONE bad performance... that's right ONE is all it takes to write you off. Are you willing to hang your righteous hat on that? A REAL MUSICIAN knows what it takes to make the show work. A REAL MUSICIAN know what it takes to make the church band sound good, even if that means taking a back seat to something. REAL MUSICAINS are not concerned about the "me" but about the "Big Picture" because it is the entire picture that is important.
Knowing that you have to do what you have to do is the sign of musical maturity. Knowing that it is more important to have a succesful event than stroking your own ego is a sign of true musicianship. When it comes right down to it, if you ask any of the heavy hitters here on this forum, they will tell you that whether or not the transpotion key is used, the end result is ultimately the most important thing. You can dislike the use of the button yourself and I can respect that, don't disrespect the players that don't hold the same opinion though.
Wolf
You're not a real musician because...
you transpose.
You're not cool because...
you wear fake polo shirts
you're not a real man because...
you wear pink.
You're not a real baller because...
you don't drive a benz
Your church is not a real church because...
its a storefront.
...etc
You're not a real musician because...
you transpose.
You're not cool because...
you wear fake polo shirts
you're not a real man because...
you wear pink.
You're not a real baller because...
you don't drive a benz
Your church is not a real church because...
its a storefront.
...etc
Wolfram, i think you & Mintdakid are both good guys, i just think Mint was a little excited about the issue and may not have used the best word in describing his side (which is what kinda put you off a bit). lol
But Wolf, i think with the continuing dialogue (like what's happening), things tend to work themselves out. Such as, your further explanation & feelings on the matter. What you said may have allowed for Mint to (if not change) perhaps soften his view on the matter, or to see it from a different angle. A little clarity can go a long way. 8)
([url]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii314/Jlaws318/snoopsmh.gif[/url])
Even though this is funny as heck to me, LOL.
Ditto. I drive a BMW, am I not a real baller? Shot Caller? :D
Let me break this down this way... calling another musician a hack is not an "opinion" it is an insult.
It would be like me saying to someone that using loop based sequencers to write music means they are not a real musician or If you use drum loops, you are not a real musician or if you can't read music you are not a real musician.
What makes a real musician is is the ability to feel the music and to get others to do the same. I am an A-List musician... Maybe you don't have a clue what that is... It means that when somebody needs a sax player or a keys player, I am near the top of the call list, why? Because I am the real deal. I play with passion and fire, I come to the gig prepared, I don't make stupid mistakes and I don't have a holier than thou attitude about things that can assist on making the show work. If the singer has a throat strain and we need to play something down a minor 3rd and we have never practiced it there and the concert is in twenty minutes... I will use the transpose button and call it a day. It is wiser and smarter to be a REAL MUSICIAN and save the show than blow the moment and fuddle through the performance just so you can go home and say you played something badly in the correct key. You will NEVER get called again... ONE bad performance... that's right ONE is all it takes to write you off. Are you willing to hang your righteous hat on that? A REAL MUSICIAN knows what it takes to make the show work. A REAL MUSICIAN know what it takes to make the church band sound good, even if that means taking a back seat to something. REAL MUSICAINS are not concerned about the "me" but about the "Big Picture" because it is the entire picture that is important.
Knowing that you have to do what you have to do is the sign of musical maturity. Knowing that it is more important to have a succesful event than stroking your own ego is a sign of true musicianship. When it comes right down to it, if you ask any of the heavy hitters here on this forum, they will tell you that whether or not the transpotion key is used, the end result is ultimately the most important thing. You can dislike the use of the button yourself and I can respect that, don't disrespect the players that don't hold the same opinion though.
Wolf
Wolfram, i think you & Mintdakid are both good guys, i just think Mint was a little excited about the issue and may not have used the best word in describing his side (which is what kinda put you off a bit). lol
But Wolf, i think with the continuing dialogue (like what's happening), things tend to work themselves out. Such as, your further explanation & feelings on the matter. What you said may have allowed for Mint to (if not change) perhaps soften his view on the matter, or to see it from a different angle. A little clarity can go a long way. 8)
...I am too busy practicing so I'll never have to use the Transposition button ... I'm a D List Musician don't really get 2 many gigs but as I Move up in LETTERS maybe my feelings will change about the Transpose button.........
WOW!! I Guess I am Not Making the Best Impression on this Messageboard .. Well I've never been one for Popularity ....But Let me Clarify
I Meant EVERY thing I said.... and I Don't REGRET saying it .. Now I didn't Mean to OFFEND my BROTHER but I Don't REGRET saying it whatsoever and I'll Stand by it
REAL MUSICIANS do not TRANSPOSE..
Stevie Wonder using a transposer in church, because he can only play in 11 keys, but the song was in that 12th key is not against any church rules, and nor is Stevie competing against anyone in worship service.
So to say "Stevie Wonder is not a real musician just because of this scenario" (hypothetical example)......Mike Tyson tells me that's "ludicrist!" lol
Stevie is still as bad (meaning good), as we all know, he just has a "limitation" in one key, so he used the transpose button that Sunday and blessed somebody. But Berry Gordy DID tease him afterwards about learning to play in that 12th key! lol 8)
I guess then that I won't be worrying about bumping into you in any of the circles that I play in then... The circle of "real, working musicians..."
wolf
Still going? :-\
Still going? :-\
HahhahhaaI'm just sayin' at some point we need to agree to disagree and keep it moving.
I'm just sayin' at some point we need to agree to disagree and keep it moving.
I thought we did that on page 3?I guess we all didn't didn't do that. :-\
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button). If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :DRight you are! I'd rather have discussions about how we can be better musicians and not worry about those that are perfectly cool with transposing. Let them take care of themselves.
I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.
Best of luck to all of you in the future.
Peace, out.
Wolfram
I'm just sayin' at some point we need to agree to disagree and keep it moving.
I thought we did that on page 3?
I guess we all didn't didn't do that. :-\
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button). If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :D
Right you are! I'd rather have discussions about how we can be better musicians and not worry about those that are perfectly cool with transposing. Let them take care of themselves.
I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.
Best of luck to all of you in the future.
Peace, out.
Wolfram
One thing I've learned, is, we have some athletes (musicians) that are OK with steroids (the transpose button). If they are OK with appearing to be better than they really are, we just have to learn to accept it. :) :D
I have helped where I can.
I have offered guidance when asked.
But I guess when the best tells you that you have no credibility, there is no place for you on this site.
Best of luck to all of you in the future.
Peace, out.
Wolfram
Wolfie, don't take it completely personal. Nothing is being aimed directly at "Wolfram". It's just a matter of ferreting out the most common sense understanding through dialogue. And you may get those on the left, those on the right, and those in the middle.
It's a "those" thing, not a personal "Wolfram" thing. Just keep sharing your thoughts & views - people were hearing & valuing what you had to say (perhaps, unbeknownst to you). 8)
"If Stevie Wonder could only play in 11 keys, but on the spot, needed to play in that 12th key, so he pressed the transpose button...."is Stevie still a real musician?"
100% of anybody with a functioning brain would say "yes!"...he should absolutely learn that 12th key, but the answer is still "YES!"
As far as the T-button debate, to each his own.
exactly. dont take other people's opinions personally.You've definately taught us how to do that. ;D
You've definately taught us how to do that. ;D
Well I guess I could do it your way and allow my ego to trip up the entire performance... Yeah, that sounds right. That is the way to do it. A few minutes before show time, gotta completly change the performace key from the original way you rehearsed... Man, what will Mint think if I think about my audience first and use the transpose key? I fumble through this in a completely different key, without rehearsal so Mint can think I am a real musician... phew.... Yeah, that's what is important....NOT!
As I said in the same post...I chose to transpose to save the show. I later came back and practiced it in that key. We did not have the time or luxury to have an ego about this. A real musician can distinguish the difference... I imagine that it is great fun playing music all by yourself where big decisions are never part of your life. You talk a big line but you don't seem to have any real world experience to me. Making tracks out of your bedroom doesn't count.
I remember when the Yamaha DX-7 came out. "real musicians" like yourself thought that this was the end of music. I mean here we had an instrument the emulated the rhodes and the piano and brass and strings... I bet you have several synths in your room or at least computer models of synths. The same arguement can be said of the B3. The clones were the death of the B3... No true B3 player would be caught dead playing one... hmmm the arguement still rages on...
Your arguement is far from unique. You like sounding like a musical tough guy... "I NEVER do THIS"... Great.. Good for you. Your opinion shows that you have a much further journey to travel than most here. Regardless of your talent level, your maturity level is suffering. There are no absolutes in music. When you get older and gain some more musical insight, maybe that wisdom will come to you.
Here is an example... I do not LIKE Rap music... I respect it as a musical form however. There are good attributes that I see in the music regardless of that fact that I do not find it my cup of tea. I do not like the sampling and the cursing, but I like the freedom and rhythm. My opinion differs from many... It is only my opinion... These people are still musicians...
This is the last entry on this subject I am going to post. I believe that we had good dialogue going for a while and then it becomes blind again. I do not understand the fascination everyone has with worrying about what others are doing. Why not just perfect your own craft and stop worrying about the other guy/gal? It would be so much more efficient use of your time if you would practice your own stuff and let the other person worry about their stuff.
could someone page Dr. Kevorkian to this thread?Indeed Wolfie. This is one of those moments I wish Al Gore had not invented the internet. :-\
*yawn*
I’m just responding to this Cat man, I’m not trying Beat a Dead Horse; I’m just responding anything less would be irRESPONSible on my behalf!!!Right you are. You have a right to respond and I have a right to yawn. :D
I thought that was the purpose of a Message Board
If not..? Then My bad..
Right you are. You have a right to respond and I have a right to yawn. :DHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
So Quick someone show me how can I flip a 7 . 3. 6 grove in D
Awesome song man..U are really talented 8)
Thanks for sharing..
Thanks Bro!
Continue to pray for my Mind!
lol
Ok, let me stand back, cause i don't like lightning!
"It is written, for God is not the author of tranposition, but of some good songs and pieces, in the 12 keys of Israel"...1 Corentheeans 12:8 8)
Ok, to make this something beautiful, let me focus on this:
So how can we flip a 7-3-6 groove in D into something sweet?
Do you have an answer Mint or anyone?
Before I attempt, how would you normally play this groove Mint? Do you mind laying it all down..
"NOW Keys and songs are the substance of practice hoped for, and the evidence of "Transposing" Not seen"
Hebrewsfolgers 11:1