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Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: diverse379 on May 19, 2008, 12:47:50 PM

Title: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: diverse379 on May 19, 2008, 12:47:50 PM
has this happened to you?

you buy a dvd watch it once or twice learn a move or two then put it away never to watch it again

you were impressed with what you heard but somehow you just cant seem to play like them

well I have been there
I have every dvd and video sebastian and hear and play puts out
plus the worship extreme and gospel chops dvds as well

and many from homespun tapes

Here is a suggestion for those of you who have more than two dvds from wheat works


Sebastian formatted his tapes similarly
they all have 2 5 1 changes
they all have shouts
preacher chords
talk music
and worship moves

so use this to your advantage

maybe you are playing organ
so grab a few left hand chords from roger jean and a couple more from pj morgan
or grab a whole bunch from organ essentials
maybe

you want to learn a 2 5 1

learn how cassandra does it
then get pj version
and combine it with the eddie howard

you want runs

go to john peters and justin gilbert

my feeling on Dvds is that they are great
but lets face it you arent going to get great over night

and I think it takes tremendous discipline to stay with a dvd for the couple of years it may take you to become that fluid in all your keys

so take drops and tid bits
on the pertinent things that you need to develop


here are some specific examples

if you want traditional piano rag time devotional shout moves

justin gilbert
john peters
hear and play 300

for shouts
john peters
pj morgan
cassandra oniel
hear and play 500

for 25 1 's
any wheat works product except roger jeans brooklyn organ
(great dvd just no 2 5 1's

for more extended progressions
I like pj morgans tape chords

for runs pj also put out a tape called runs
justin has runs
and john peters has several runs
pj morgan has several runs
crazy chords and runs has several runs

phat voicings

cassandra oniel
justin gilbert
pj morgan

hymns
ethel caffie austin
gopsel piano  homespun tapes
pamela davis wheat works
essentials series hymns and beyond wheat works

if you just want songs
you sometimes dont know all the songs on a dvd until you purchase it so here is a list of some of the songs

if you want me to put out a list of all the songs that are on the various dvd's then let me know and I will put a list together
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: musallio on May 19, 2008, 01:13:17 PM
Ok, the high time has come for me to go with my (in)famous request:
Plz start a "diverse" S.(http://ctasa.freeforums.org/files/ctasa/smilies/hsnono.gif)..

I don't have 98% of those dvds, but I know gk300 & 600 will help me out tremendously & not just in the key of Ab.

Thank for another 5 star rated review..

Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: momuzik on May 19, 2008, 01:27:37 PM
So where does Jamal Hartwell fit in?
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: musallio on May 19, 2008, 01:47:50 PM
So where does Jamal Hartwell fit in?

Me thinks 'twas an unintended omission; but Jamal is certainly included in Diverse's list if you are doing tritones , worship & all the neo-soul stuff.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: diverse379 on May 19, 2008, 02:17:21 PM
Me thinks 'twas an unintended omission; but Jamal is certainly included in Diverse's list if you are doing tritones , worship & all the neo-soul stuff.
Me thinks 'twas an unintended omission; but Jamal is certainly included in Diverse's list if you are doing tritones , worship & all the neo-soul stuff.

sorry it was an unintended ommission
jamal hartwells project the extreme which is the one I have
is unequaled for quickly getting you up to speed on modern chord changes

it propelled me faster then any other project I own,

I would recommend it primarily for voicings and neo sould worship


Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: chevonee on May 19, 2008, 10:49:21 PM
I have Jamal Hartwell's Urban Extreme and it is indeed a very COMPLEX dvd set to say the least. It is definitely not for beginners. I also agree with you diverse on the fact that you have to be willing to stick to something in order to get results.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: MemphisKeys on May 19, 2008, 10:57:13 PM
how does the progressions work I understand what they are but I don't understand how they work... I mean I can play a 2-5-1 progression in any key but what else do I do or just follow the number system...any tips...
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: diverse379 on May 20, 2008, 01:08:33 AM
how does the progressions work I understand what they are but I don't understand how they work... I mean I can play a 2-5-1 progression in any key but what else do I do or just follow the number system...any tips...

progressions are just a way to get the harmony to support the melody


in any key if your melody sticks to the key you are in

the one chord will harmonize three notes
the five  chord will harmonize two additional notes
and the four chord will harmonize the remaining two notes

so the one four five
chords will harmonize every note in a given melody providing it stays in key

you can replace the two chord for the four chord
so now we get the 2 5 1

you can expand the one chord
meaning if you are sitting on it for a while
you can play different bass notes under help create motion

that is where we get the 1 3 6 2 5 1

the 6 chord and the 3 chord fill in for the 1 chord

and the 7 fills in for the 5 chord

the 6 chord can also lead to the four chord


all this may seem confusing
but it all starts

with the one chord and the 5 chord

and the four

if you just use these three chords you can play with most songs


when you get more advance you can use the 2 5 1
as a little intro to each new chord you will play

so to introduce the one chord you play 2 5 and then 1

when you want to go to the four chord
you introduce it by
playing a 2 5 1 in the key of the 4 chord

so if you were in the key of
C and you want to go to the F

you introduce the F by playing g min7 C7
Fmaj

2 5 1

so now you have it 2 5 1 are derived from 4 5 1
and they have over time become embellishments
as well  static chords to rest on  to support the melody

I have Jamal Hartwell's Urban Extreme and it is indeed a very COMPLEX dvd set to say the least. It is definitely not for beginners. I also agree with you diverse on the fact that you have to be willing to stick to something in order to get results.


I didnt see it as complex
but hat is because I realized that a lot of what he was saying didnt make real sense
the chords were beautiful
but a lot of the terminology was incorrect
like the major chord on steroids was in reality a minor 11 chord not a major chord at all
and could not be used a s a major chord

the di tone was really an altered seventh chord

what I did was just watch and practice along with the dvd
from the beginning everytime I watched it until I was playing along with him note for note everything he did



Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: momuzik on May 20, 2008, 05:51:27 AM
... all this may seem confusing ...

May??

I believe I read that Jamal is coming out with a new DVD that explains this number system. I'd like to get it so I can keep up with what you all are talking about.

I can tell you that when I play some of the chords from his "Urban Worship", I always get an "ooh I like that" response.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 20, 2008, 06:37:47 AM
May??

I believe I read that Jamal is coming out with a new DVD that explains this number system. I'd like to get it so I can keep up with what you all are talking about.

I can tell you that when I play some of the chords from his "Urban Worship", I always get an "ooh I like that" response.
I'm going to assume that you drive. With that said, there are TWO ways of getting from Point A (say, you're house) to Point B (say, you're job).

Way #1: The direct route (fewer lights, nothing to see, no traffic, etc)

This way gets you to basic core of a song: The 1, 4, 5, 1 of a song. MOST songs have this direct route.

Way #2: The scenic route (may be some lights, not in a rush to get to work, pretty sights along the way, etc)

This way gets you to the core of a song, it's just a more interesting way of getting there.


That's what the 2-5-1 is; a more interesting way of getting to Point B (the end of a song).

So, instead of say going DIRECTLY from the 1 (the first chord of a song) to the 4 (let's say it's the second chord of the song) you decide to take the scenic route (using the 2-5-1).

Now, I can imagine your question: From where am I getting the 2-5-1 chords? That's where your knowledge of scales comes in; and, if you don't have THAT knowledge: STOP. RIGHT. HERE!

If you do, then I'll be back later to try to expound simply, but, further.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: Fenix on May 20, 2008, 07:45:18 AM
I have made it a point not to buy anymore DVDs until i finish teh ones i am working on. IN fact, i am not buying anymore music books until i am through with the ones i have. There was a time i would buy a book, skim through, buy another, skim through...i was getting nowhere fast.

Right now i have a book on scales, chord progressions and the Hanon. I also bought Donnie McClurkin's "The Essential D.MClurkin" and i am currently playing through the songs so i can get a feel for playing in different keys.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: momuzik on May 20, 2008, 08:05:08 AM
I'm going to assume that you drive. With that said, there are TWO ways of getting from Point A (say, you're house) to Point B (say, you're job).

Way #1: The direct route (fewer lights, nothing to see, no traffic, etc)

This way gets you to basic core of a song: The 1, 4, 5, 1 of a song. MOST songs have this direct route.

Way #2: The scenic route (may be some lights, not in a rush to get to work, pretty sights along the way, etc)

This way gets you to the core of a song, it's just a more interesting way of getting there.


That's what the 2-5-1 is; a more interesting way of getting to Point B (the end of a song).

So, instead of say going DIRECTLY from the 1 (the first chord of a song) to the 4 (let's say it's the second chord of the song) you decide to take the scenic route (using the 2-5-1).

Now, I can imagine your question: From where am I getting the 2-5-1 chords? That's where your knowledge of scales comes in; and, if you don't have THAT knowledge: STOP. RIGHT. HERE!

If you do, then I'll be back later to try to expound simply, but, further.

I can follow your example, but I'm not sure what the 1 chord consists of, the 2 etc...
See I've been playing for my church going on 5 years now. I'm sure I've played some of these progression not knowing which was the 1-4-5 or the 2-5-1 or whatever.
I was taught to play mostly from learning certain patterns that are common to a lot of gospel music. I'm pretty sure these patterns were 1-4-5-, 2-5-1, and so forth but my instructor didn't teach me the number part (maybe he didn't know).
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: musiqisme26 on May 20, 2008, 08:08:53 AM
Kevin Conley (K.C.) probaly has the best all-around wheatworks dvd ever made as there is something any player, at any level can get something out of it
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: diverse379 on May 20, 2008, 08:09:22 AM
May??

I believe I read that Jamal is coming out with a new DVD that explains this number system. I'd like to get it so I can keep up with what you all are talking about.

I can tell you that when I play some of the chords from his "Urban Worship", I always get an "ooh I like that" response.

I agree I have the extreme and I get the same thing

if you use them sparingly it is always a surprise
reaction

or a knowing nod.

Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 20, 2008, 08:17:22 AM
I can follow your example, but I'm not sure what the 1 chord consists of, the 2 etc...
See I've been playing for my church going on 5 years now. I'm sure I've played some of these progression not knowing which was the 1-4-5 or the 2-5-1 or whatever.
I was taught to play mostly from learning certain patterns that are common to a lot of gospel music. I'm pretty sure these patterns were 1-4-5-, 2-5-1, and so forth but my instructor didn't teach me the number part (maybe he didn't know).

What do you mean by, 'consists of'? If you're saying you don't know what notes or type of chord is to be played with the 1 chord, then that's easy enough.

Let me know.
Kevin Conley (K.C.) probaly has the best all-around wheatworks dvd ever made as there is something any player, at any level can get something out of it

COSIGN. I recently purchased it and my summer shall be spent digesting the SNOT outta this DVD.

I do wish, when he does a second DVD, he'd spend more time breaking things down and breaking them DOWN, SLOWLY.

The trouble with creative folks: When they start to "feel" what they're teacing they take off and run and leave us novices behind. :-\
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: under13 on May 20, 2008, 08:30:08 AM
The trouble with creative folks: When they start to "feel" what they're teacing they take off and run and leave us novices behind. :-\


Thats not a bad thing to me, cuz in the future when you are at an advanced level, you can go back to the dvd and learn something new. You also have to work on learning the things that arent broken down, because we cant always rely on people breaking stuff down. Yeah, it may be hard and it wont sound exactly like the player, but it will help your development. Thats one the differences between Intermediates and advanced players.

Kevin Conley (K.C.) probaly has the best all-around wheatworks dvd ever made as there is something any player, at any level can get something out of it


I'm ordering this right now. I'm not much of a theory guy, but I have to admit, the number system makes it a lot easier to learn.
I can follow your example, but I'm not sure what the 1 chord consists of, the 2 etc...
See I've been playing for my church going on 5 years now. I'm sure I've played some of these progression not knowing which was the 1-4-5 or the 2-5-1 or whatever.
I was taught to play mostly from learning certain patterns that are common to a lot of gospel music. I'm pretty sure these patterns were 1-4-5-, 2-5-1, and so forth but my instructor didn't teach me the number part (maybe he didn't know).


Check these out

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,53939.0.html

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php?action=search2
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: diverse379 on May 20, 2008, 08:35:40 AM
some really good advice in this post

Sjonathon does a great job of providing a great analogy


fenix says he will buy no more Dvd's or books

I cant say I blame him

but I will say dont be so hard on yourself

I utilize all my books at one time or another

and I dont regret buying any of them

because there is so much to this music thing
there is always something new to learn

as we get older we grow wiser

and maybe as your advance your needs change and so your library has to expand to grow with you

but I am not trying to throw you off your game

study hard but if you find your self geting to a rut
by all means buy a new book or dvd

Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: Fenix on May 20, 2008, 09:08:16 AM
some really good advice in this post

Sjonathon does a great job of providing a great analogy


fenix says he will buy no more Dvd's or books

I cant say I blame him

but I will say dont be so hard on yourself

I utilize all my books at one time or another

and I dont regret buying any of them

because there is so much to this music thing
there is always something new to learn

as we get older we grow wiser

and maybe as your advance your needs change and so your library has to expand to grow with you

but I am not trying to throw you off your game

study hard but if you find your self geting to a rut
by all means buy a new book or dvd



Yeah thanks. It started to get a bit discouraging. I think i just have to settle on a practice routine.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 20, 2008, 09:19:23 AM
Thats not a bad thing to me, cuz in the future when you are at an advanced level, you can go back to the dvd and learn something new. You also have to work on learning the things that arent broken down, because we cant always rely on people breaking stuff down. Yeah, it may be hard and it wont sound exactly like the player, but it will help your development. Thats one the differences between Intermediates and advanced players.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. ;)
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 20, 2008, 09:19:43 AM
Yeah thanks. It started to get a bit discouraging. I think i just have to settle on a practice routine.

You and me both, chief.
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anyth
Post by: diverse379 on May 20, 2008, 09:20:32 AM
Yeah thanks. It started to get a bit discouraging. I think i just have to settle on a practice routine.
pm me If I can I may be able to help you get a practice routine together

practice is my specialty
just let me know your goals and where you are now in terms of style voicings etc

I will tailor a program for you
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: under13 on May 20, 2008, 09:25:12 AM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. ;)

Have you tried Je.. I mean Teachers?
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: diverse379 on May 20, 2008, 10:58:05 AM
Thats not a bad thing to me, cuz in the future when you are at an advanced level, you can go back to the dvd and learn something new. You also have to work on learning the things that arent broken down, because we cant always rely on people breaking stuff down. Yeah, it may be hard and it wont sound exactly like the player, but it will help your development. Thats one the differences between Intermediates and advanced players.

I'm ordering this right now. I'm not much of a theory guy, but I have to admit, the number system makes it a lot easier to learn.
Check these out

[url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,53939.0.html[/url]


[url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php?action=search2[/url]

good point I have revisited some of my dvds that I purchased 6 years ago and I can now get a lot out of them where as before I was stuck on stupid

we have to remember that these guys on the dvds are selected because they are monsters on the boards

so as intermediate and beginners we are going to get left behind

but each year we grow a little more
our abilities increase

look at it like they are planting seeds
and each year we grow stronger and stronger
and our roots get deeper and deeper

Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: under13 on May 21, 2008, 09:20:50 AM
Is there a book store in NYC that sells wheatworks DVDs?
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: diverse379 on May 21, 2008, 10:01:54 AM
Is there a book store in NYC that sells wheatworks DVDs?

not that I know of but if you live in nyc

sebastian travels with his dvds
when he does his repairs

he may just meet you at a church near you
when he is in your area
pm him 
Title: Re: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything
Post by: under13 on May 21, 2008, 10:03:57 AM
not that I know of but if you live in nyc

sebastian travels with his dvds
when he does his repairs

he may just meet you at a church near you
when he is in your area
pm him 

Thanks for the info. I'm right by Queens, i'm sure he's around there all the time