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Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: Fenix on July 11, 2008, 07:43:54 AM

Title: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Fenix on July 11, 2008, 07:43:54 AM
I mean i can listen to a song and follow along with the chord progression, but you guys here (T-Block, keep your hands lifted) are beasts when it comes to this.

How do you know the EXACT voicing of the chords?

How do you even know the fills and runs?

I say this cuz i have played songs on LGM that were SPOT ON. I compared them to the CD version and there is almost no difference. How do ya'll do it?
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 11, 2008, 01:31:28 PM
With me, I do what I always do, listen for the bass first.  I go through the whole song and list every bass note that's played.  After that, I turn the notes into numbers based on the key.  After I got all the bass notes down, I practice and play the bass with the CD until I'm fairly confident that I have all the correct bass notes.

Now, for getting the chords correct (or almost correct), I go through bout 3 different phases.  The first phase is chord recognition.  It really helps if u can recognize chord qualities and inversions by ear alone.  A major chord in root position sounds different from a major chord in 1st inversion, which sounds different from a major chord in 2nd inversion, etc.  If I notice any spots in the song where I hear a recognizable chord, I write it down.

The 2nd phase is using the numbers I got from the bass notes.  I can pretty much narrow the chord choices down once I know the bass note.  Once I find a chord that matches, I use my ear to figure out the inversion and then write it down.

The 3rd phase is simply using my ear to figure out problem chords.  If neither phase 1 or 2 can help me, I use my ear to write down every note I hear being played in a particular chord.  Usually, after I got a few notes written down, I can use theory to find the chord that will have all those notes in them.

As far as runs, all u can do is use your ears to figure out the notes being played.  Sometimes, the notes are part of a scale, sometimes they are part of a chord.  The great thing about a run is it's one note a time.  The rewind button will definitely help u out here.  Write down all the notes u hear and practice til u can do it perfectly.

After I'm done chording, I play through the chords I wrote out with the CD.  Once i'm in the 90-100% range of matching the CD, then I'll post the chords.  It's very, very, very hard at first, but gets easier after you've done a few.  Here are some tips I can give to u or any wanting to chord out a song from a CD:

Tip #1:  SELECTIVE HEARING - focus only on what u want to figure out at the time and try to ignore everything else

Tip#2:  WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN - anything that u hear, write it down, it will help u figure out the rest

Tip #3:  REWIND & FAST FOWARD - these 2 buttons will be ur best friends, use them

Tip #4:  USE THEORY WHEN APPLICABLE - if ur theory game is decent, use it to help with trouble spots
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: rayjohnson83 on July 11, 2008, 03:03:34 PM
With me, I do what I always do, listen for the bass first.  I go through the whole song and list every bass note that's played.  After that, I turn the notes into numbers based on the key.  After I got all the bass notes down, I practice and play the bass with the CD until I'm fairly confident that I have all the correct bass notes.

Now, for getting the chords correct (or almost correct), I go through bout 3 different phases.  The first phase is chord recognition.  It really helps if u can recognize chord qualities and inversions by ear alone.  A major chord in root position sounds different from a major chord in 1st inversion, which sounds different from a major chord in 2nd inversion, etc.  If I notice any spots in the song where I hear a recognizable chord, I write it down.

The 2nd phase is using the numbers I got from the bass notes.  I can pretty much narrow the chord choices down once I know the bass note.  Once I find a chord that matches, I use my ear to figure out the inversion and then write it down.

The 3rd phase is simply using my ear to figure out problem chords.  If neither phase 1 or 2 can help me, I use my ear to write down every note I hear being played in a particular chord.  Usually, after I got a few notes written down, I can use theory to find the chord that will have all those notes in them.

As far as runs, all u can do is use your ears to figure out the notes being played.  Sometimes, the notes are part of a scale, sometimes they are part of a chord.  The great thing about a run is it's one note a time.  The rewind button will definitely help u out here.  Write down all the notes u hear and practice til u can do it perfectly.

After I'm done chording, I play through the chords I wrote out with the CD.  Once i'm in the 90-100% range of matching the CD, then I'll post the chords.  It's very, very, very hard at first, but gets easier after you've done a few.  Here are some tips I can give to u or any wanting to chord out a song from a CD:

Tip #1:  SELECTIVE HEARING - focus only on what u want to figure out at the time and try to ignore everything else

Tip#2:  WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN - anything that u hear, write it down, it will help u figure out the rest

Tip #3:  REWIND & FAST FOWARD - these 2 buttons will be ur best friends, use them

Tip #4:  USE THEORY WHEN APPLICABLE - if ur theory game is decent, use it to help with trouble spots
This is some good stuff man. thanks for sharing
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: sjonathan02 on July 11, 2008, 03:36:45 PM
This is some good stuff man. thanks for sharing

Agreed.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Mrandrew on July 11, 2008, 04:15:26 PM
How long does this usually take you guys. It takes me a few days, if I'm seriously trying to get it.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: chevonee on July 11, 2008, 08:05:52 PM
This is some good stuff man. thanks for sharing
Agreed.
Me 2 guys ;)
T-block is da man!!!
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Fenix on July 11, 2008, 10:40:16 PM
How long does this usually take you guys. It takes me a few days, if I'm seriously trying to get it.

Takes me a week. :(
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: jgause2 on July 12, 2008, 07:01:03 AM
With me, I do what I always do, listen for the bass first.  I go through the whole song and list every bass note that's played.  After that, I turn the notes into numbers based on the key.  After I got all the bass notes down, I practice and play the bass with the CD until I'm fairly confident that I have all the correct bass notes.

Now, for getting the chords correct (or almost correct), I go through bout 3 different phases.  The first phase is chord recognition.  It really helps if u can recognize chord qualities and inversions by ear alone.  A major chord in root position sounds different from a major chord in 1st inversion, which sounds different from a major chord in 2nd inversion, etc.  If I notice any spots in the song where I hear a recognizable chord, I write it down.

The 2nd phase is using the numbers I got from the bass notes.  I can pretty much narrow the chord choices down once I know the bass note.  Once I find a chord that matches, I use my ear to figure out the inversion and then write it down.

The 3rd phase is simply using my ear to figure out problem chords.  If neither phase 1 or 2 can help me, I use my ear to write down every note I hear being played in a particular chord.  Usually, after I got a few notes written down, I can use theory to find the chord that will have all those notes in them.

As far as runs, all u can do is use your ears to figure out the notes being played.  Sometimes, the notes are part of a scale, sometimes they are part of a chord.  The great thing about a run is it's one note a time.  The rewind button will definitely help u out here.  Write down all the notes u hear and practice til u can do it perfectly.

After I'm done chording, I play through the chords I wrote out with the CD.  Once i'm in the 90-100% range of matching the CD, then I'll post the chords.  It's very, very, very hard at first, but gets easier after you've done a few.  Here are some tips I can give to u or any wanting to chord out a song from a CD:

Tip #1:  SELECTIVE HEARING - focus only on what u want to figure out at the time and try to ignore everything else

Tip#2:  WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN - anything that u hear, write it down, it will help u figure out the rest

Tip #3:  REWIND & FAST FOWARD - these 2 buttons will be ur best friends, use them

Tip #4:  USE THEORY WHEN APPLICABLE - if ur theory game is decent, use it to help with trouble spots

Ditto.



It just takes practice. Thats all.  When i first started, it would take me about 2 weeks, just to get the chorus.  It took a few years, and now depending on the level of difficulty, i can pick through a song in a matter of minutes or a couple of hours.  But the more you practice doing it, the better you'll become. 

Also, as T-Block said, if you are up on your theory, don't be afraid to use it.  just about all the songs i've learned, i learned just by listening for progressions.  If you know your progressions, then just follow the bass line, , and usually that will hint to you what progression to use, and it makes learning the song easier.  Practice your progressions in every key, so that when it comes to learning a song in a key you're not that familiar in, it won't be too difficult.  Be Blessed.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 12, 2008, 01:18:43 PM
How long does this usually take you guys. It takes me a few days, if I'm seriously trying to get it.

For me, it depends on the song and how much time I got for posting.  On average, to learn a song and post the chords usually takes me about an hour.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Mrandrew on July 12, 2008, 02:06:19 PM
I can only pray I will one day get to that level of learning songs. However, with the time, practice and patience I will eventually get there.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on July 14, 2008, 11:34:19 AM
Thanks T, the method really works..It's not easy to forget the bassline once U've gone over it a few times..

On Friday eve I was requested by my friend's nephew to play a song for them on Saturday at the wedding..when I listened to the phone--I 1st got the shock that the song was modulating twice, but following the bassline really showed me that I was merely repeating the same thing in 3 keys (C to Db to D) 8)
I just practiced that for the night & figured out the chords after midnight when I had my bass in order.

That song: He Still Loves Me by Beyonce :D & who?

point is: The bassnote method works guys..
& another point that T made that I reiterate: Don't try to catch everything in 1 go--listen to the particular part (be it bass or whatever) until you have it before moving onto the next thing.

cheerio.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 15, 2008, 05:13:00 PM
That song: He Still Loves Me by Beyonce :D & who?

My thoughts exactly, LOL.  ;D
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: kodacolor on July 15, 2008, 08:37:03 PM
If the notes/chords for the instrument I'm playing isn't obvious I use the bass note to find my chords.  If that doesn't work I'll depend on other instruments and the vocalist(s). 

Then I'll try to find the voicing that sounds the closest to that in the song.

It's going to take a lot of rewinding, playing, and pausing.  I don't fastfoward.  I just let it play and play with the song until I get to the part where I'm stuck at.   

Write down or memorize (to write down later) the chords and play them with the song to see how close you are.  If it sounds bad keep trying. 

And that's the way the chick with no/very little knowledge of theory does it!  Yeah baby!

When I write chords for the guitar I write them as they're seen on other sites like:

C        F         G                 E  
   Hallelujah Salvation and Glory

Am            Dm               G           C
Honor and power unto the Lord our God


I think that's what it is.  I don't have my guitar in front of me.

I rarely ever use tablature unless it's guitar solo and I rarely try to tab guitar solos considering I can barely play them.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: kodacolor on July 15, 2008, 08:38:49 PM
C       F          G                E 
   Hallelujah Salvation and Glory

Am            Dm               G           C
Honor and power unto the Lord our God


that's better...kinda  That's one of the many ways to play it.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Fenix on July 16, 2008, 07:58:09 AM
C       F          G                E 
   Hallelujah Salvation and Glory

Am            Dm               G           C
Honor and power unto the Lord our God


that's better...kinda  That's one of the many ways to play it.

Thats guitar chording, not piano chording.

BTW if you are that into guitar you should check out Powertab software. It is SO sweet and you can find a lot of songs tabbed out. If not for that software i would never have gotten any Eric Clapton song down.

Check out Relient K too. Those guys have acoustic stuff that is sweet to play.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 16, 2008, 12:41:52 PM
Check out Relient K too. Those guys have acoustic stuff that is sweet to play.

CO-SIZZLE!!!
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Fenix on July 16, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
CO-SIZZLE!!!

What? Don't tell me you listen to them too??
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 16, 2008, 01:05:04 PM
What? Don't tell me you listen to them too??

Please believe it.  I told you I was a rock fan.  I'm just falling in love with the sound of guitars.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on July 16, 2008, 04:16:37 PM
Please believe it.  I told you I was a rock fan.  I'm just falling in love with the sound of guitars.

One gospel artist uses the distortion feedback guitar as 1 of his band's instruments..& what many would have viewed as a taboo are liking the sound alot..I's just great..
So once I get better at playing the sound properly, I'll start throwing it in at church..

It's really catchy :)
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: kodacolor on July 16, 2008, 04:42:44 PM
One gospel artist uses the distortion feedback guitar as 1 of his band's instruments..& what many would have viewed as a taboo are liking the sound alot..I's just great..
So once I get better at playing the sound properly, I'll start throwing it in at church..

It's really catchy :)

I feel that I'm better at rock than R&B on my guitar and vise versa on my keyboard.  I can never get the distortion sound I want.  One thing I'm trying to figure out how to do is...like when you listen to rock music and you hear the distortion and the chords but you don't hear every single strum.  Yeah that.  :)

At musicians/choir practice one day I kept putting a rock flavor to the songs we were doing inbetween songs.  Nobody really said much of anything.  Knowing me I doubt they were surprised!  :D  They were there to hear my transition from extremely rock influenced to a "normal" level or rock influence.  I remember when I first joined the ministry and started playing the guy playing the guitar at the time (he now plays the bass in the ministry) was shocked that R&B and blues was hard for me considering how much exposure I had/have to R&B and blues(kinda).  At one point he was like, "Come on, Koda.  The black's in you somewhere.  It's gotta be there"  :P
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on July 16, 2008, 05:24:32 PM
^^^

 :D :D :D, especially the last sentence :D :D
If truth be told, some music might be generally easier in terms of chord structure etc, but the defining element is THE FEEL..
It's either you have it or not..if not, develop it..It can be done...patience produces good fruits too..
6 months ago I would be looked at as a laughing stock if I said I can play a simple song (only 3 or 4 had that faith in me--not even my parents!)..Nowadays I sometimes wish I had never come public about it..the same people who threw stones at me expect me to play anything & everything that comes to their heads ::) I need to work on my rock music & jazz.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 17, 2008, 12:35:02 PM
I remember when I first joined the ministry and started playing the guy playing the guitar at the time (he now plays the bass in the ministry) was shocked that R&B and blues was hard for me considering how much exposure I had/have to R&B and blues(kinda).  At one point he was like, "Come on, Koda.  The black's in you somewhere.  It's gotta be there"  :P

That white print is exactly what I'm talking about, music is too color-coded.  >:(
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on July 19, 2008, 07:26:01 PM
That white print is exactly what I'm talking about, music is too color-coded.  >:(

I think I might be a bit too slow on this 1..
plz explain yourself so that I'm sure I'm intepreting you the way I ought to..
Thanks
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 20, 2008, 07:08:29 AM
By color-coded I mean people automatically associate a different style of music with a specific race of people.  Like rock-n-roll is only for white people, hip-hop/rap & R&B is only for black people, latin music is only for latin people, etc.  When someone outside the "color" experiments with other music, most of the time it isn't receieved very well.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on July 20, 2008, 02:41:27 PM
Cool, I was in-synch then :)
I hate that stereotyping / categorization!
There have been several instances when I start playing a certain song & every1 just looks down & some people start saying the color stuff >:(
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on July 20, 2008, 06:08:18 PM
Cool, I was in-synch then :)
I hate that stereotyping / categorization!
There have been several instances when I start playing a certain song & every1 just looks down & some people start saying the color stuff >:(

I use to get looks like that, but I'm slowly molding my church to accept other styles of music, LOL.  One time in church I played some Beethoven stuff, but I kinda flipped it just a little and had the church rocking wit it.  My mom made up a song on the spot with the music, it was awesome.  Later at dinner, I told her "Mom, u was in there rocking to Beethoven."  She was like, "For real?  I didn't know Beethoven could do gospel."
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: MemphisKeys on August 07, 2008, 11:13:25 PM
Thanks.... Guys I been having a hard time trying to chord songs and having problems trying to do everything in it but...Ima take T-block elements and use them.... I never tried to follow the bass line...but ima get to it...Thanks again and GOD Bless ALL ... ;D
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: csedwards2 on August 12, 2008, 12:48:38 AM
Thanks.... Guys I been having a hard time trying to chord songs and having problems trying to do everything in it but...Ima take T-block elements and use them.... I never tried to follow the bass line...but ima get to it...Thanks again and GOD Bless ALL ... ;D
also, try your hand at picking up older songs, they tend to have less stuff clouding the arrangement so you can hear the keys better. Plus some of the fundamental techniques we're talking about today are demonstrated throughout the music clearly.

I was listening to the Family Affair album by Hez today, and its refreshing to actually hear chords. Theres a lot of synth action, but nonetheless you can hear better whats going on in the older stuff than the newer. Once you get those techniques from the old, listen to the newer to give you more alternatives (tritones, polychords, substitutions).
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Fenix on August 12, 2008, 07:42:51 AM
also, try your hand at picking up older songs, they tend to have less stuff clouding the arrangement so you can hear the keys better. Plus some of the fundamental techniques we're talking about today are demonstrated throughout the music clearly.

I was listening to the Family Affair album by Hez today, and its refreshing to actually hear chords. Theres a lot of synth action, but nonetheless you can hear better whats going on in the older stuff than the newer. Once you get those techniques from the old, listen to the newer to give you more alternatives (tritones, polychords, substitutions).

THis begs the question why newer songs are so busy? I was listening to some of Tye's songs. I gave up after 10 minutes of try to chord them.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on August 12, 2008, 01:43:08 PM
THis begs the question why newer songs are so busy?

That's a good question.  I'm guessing that now-a-days, a lot of musicians seem to be under the impression that more is better.  How can I outdo what I did last album, or how can I outdo anybody else in the game.  It seems like the entertainment and "WOW" factor is becoming more engulfed in gospel music.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on August 12, 2008, 09:20:56 PM
After hearing a few people around here sound so amazing with basic stuff, I'm over the fuss about "fancy" chording etc..I just focus on playing stuff that sounds great to the ear..I've learnt that good tones & voicings are recipe for great music, not necessarily "complex" chords..
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: sjonathan02 on August 12, 2008, 09:22:02 PM
After hearing a few people around here sound so amazing with basic stuff, I'm over the fuss about "fancy" chording etc..I just focus on playing stuff that sounds great to the ear..I've learnt that good tones & voicings are recipe for great music, not necessarily "complex" chords..

Man, you. are. ON IT!!  ;)
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Fenix on August 12, 2008, 09:40:00 PM
After hearing a few people around here sound so amazing with basic stuff, I'm over the fuss about "fancy" chording etc..I just focus on playing stuff that sounds great to the ear..I've learnt that good tones & voicings are recipe for great music, not necessarily "complex" chords..

Preach it.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: SirTJ on August 12, 2008, 09:52:41 PM
After hearing a few people around here sound so amazing with basic stuff, I'm over the fuss about "fancy" chording etc..I just focus on playing stuff that sounds great to the ear..I've learnt that good tones & voicings are recipe for great music, not necessarily "complex" chords..

That's true (mostly). Also, throwing in little small-yet-simple tricks such as the West Coast slide and/or Half-Step-Whole-Step skip adds a LOT. It's simple stuff that can turn almost anything you play around.

And of course, VOICING, VOICING, VOICING! Makes all the difference. People will think you're playing 50 different chords when all you're doing is playing the same 3 or 4, utilizing VOICING.
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: cas10a on August 12, 2008, 10:00:52 PM
After hearing a few people around here sound so amazing with basic stuff, I'm over the fuss about "fancy" chording etc..I just focus on playing stuff that sounds great to the ear..I've learnt that good tones & voicings are recipe for great music, not necessarily "complex" chords..

Cosign!!

This is right on the money...it's not really about "large/phat/complex" chords, it more about voicing and placement, even with basic chords...

I think I've heard Bishop Cole say the same many times along with others...T-Block, SoundofJoy, etc.,...

It's great to be able to expand chords/progressions, as you may see many Jazz musicians do when they improvise, but I know I've listened to some jazz music where the melody is totally lost in the arrangement because of too much complexity...and you definately couldn't sing to the arrangement if it were a gospel song being song on Sunday morning...lol :)
 
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: Blessingss on September 17, 2011, 04:29:07 AM
For me, it depends on the song and how much time I got for posting.  On average, to learn a song and post the chords usually takes me about an hour.

 :o Just an hour?

This is real great info, thanks for sharing T :)
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: musallio on September 17, 2011, 01:41:23 PM
That's true (mostly). Also, throwing in little small-yet-simple tricks such as the West Coast slide and/or Half-Step-Whole-Step skip adds a LOT. It's simple stuff that can turn almost anything you play around.

And of course, VOICING, VOICING, VOICING! Makes all the difference. People will think you're playing 50 different chords when all you're doing is playing the same 3 or 4, utilizing VOICING.

I've just come from a crusade at a kiddie's park where I was asked o play. A group of kiddies who can play seemed o be assessing my playing and I heard one of them who seems to play say to his pals, "yoh! he can play advanced stuff; look a his fingers..etc" 
 meanwhile there was nothing over the top I was playing- just simple melody and harmony- with a little run here and there.

So I agree with what you said back then...here were guys thinking I'm doing 50 things yet I was getting irritated with myself because I was recycling the same stuff and felt there was more stuff I could throw in to make it sweeter to my ear..
Title: Re: How do you chord songs?
Post by: T-Block on September 20, 2011, 09:27:31 AM
Wow... you guys have been holding out on me. I had no idea Fenix and T-Block were into Relient K...

*nods head*