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Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: uniquepraise on July 31, 2008, 09:48:48 AM
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First of all I dislike it and dont use it unless absolutely necessary. Which is rare. I would rather learn any song in the correct key. Anyway Im being taught by our current musician the number system in transpose. How do I transfer this over to the correct key.
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If you're talking about the number system on the keyboard itself with the Transpose button/key (ie., +1, -1, etc...). I think it differs slightly depending on what keyboard you are using. Normally "+1" would just be a half step up from the key you are playing in and vice versa for -1...I believe there are different ways you can set the transpose to work on some boards, but being that I rarely use the transpose button, I'm not the best person to be speaking on it...lol :)
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i had a situation like that where the guy played everything in C#, i would have to watch his hands and follow his bassline movements and then go the organ in play it in the right key.
the first song i had to do was lord you are good by israel in the orginal key of E major. my friend would play in C# so the tranpose button would show +3(C#+D+Eb+E). so while im walking over to the organ im
+1 +2 +3
remembering what he was playin in C# and go to E and play the same thing in the right key.
if you know your number system it will be easier for you. if you know your basic chords for every number in the system, it would help to.
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First of all I dislike it and dont use it unless absolutely necessary. Which is rare. I would rather learn any song in the correct key. Anyway Im being taught by our current musician the number system in transpose. How do I transfer this over to the correct key.
The number system can be used for any key. It doesn't matter what key it's originally taught in as long as u know what the numbers mean. Do u know ur major scales?
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The number system can be used for any key. It doesn't matter what key it's originally taught in as long as u know what the numbers mean. Do u know ur major scales?
Some better than others but Im working on learning them all. This helps a lot though. i had a situation like that where the guy played everything in C#, i would have to watch his hands and follow his bassline movements and then go the organ in play it in the right key.
the first song i had to do was lord you are good by israel in the orginal key of E major. my friend would play in C# so the tranpose button would show +3(C#+D+Eb+E). so while im walking over to the organ im
+1 +2 +3
remembering what he was playin in C# and go to E and play the same thing in the right key.
if you know your number system it will be easier for you. if you know your basic chords for every number in the system, it would help to.
He gives me what # to take it up to when transposing (+3 or -1) but Id rather learn it in the key. So far the number system seems easier for me to follow along with....at least in the key of C lol. Thanks guys for the help. Any other suggestions? My only issue is I learned classical so Im having to throw most of that out the window.
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My only issue is I learned classical so Im having to throw most of that out the window.
I learned classical as well. What I did was apply those same classical techniques and theory to gospel. U should check out this link for more help (if u haven't already): http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,42768.0.html (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,42768.0.html)
Just go through each of the topics and learn as much as u can.
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First of all I dislike it and dont use it unless absolutely necessary. Which is rare. I would rather learn any song in the correct key. Anyway Im being taught by our current musician the number system in transpose. How do I transfer this over to the correct key.
Some better than others but Im working on learning them all. This helps a lot though.
He gives me what # to take it up to when transposing (+3 or -1) but Id rather learn it in the key. So far the number system seems easier for me to follow along with....at least in the key of C lol. Thanks guys for the help. Any other suggestions? My only issue is I learned classical so Im having to throw most of that out the window.
Can you give a more detailed example of what you're talking about. Not quite catching what you're saying
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Not so long ago I was required to do something similar for another guy who could only play in Ab..He had to transpose on the fly depending on how much the song was modulating each time (I don't know why bands like to modulate so much!)
Anyway, looking at it from the perspective of Db/C#:
Major/ Min. Key Transpose values # System wise of key you're in
Db/ C# -24 ; -12 ; 0 ; +12 ; +24 Whichever key you are playing in.
D -23 ; -11 ; +1 ; +13 value for key a 1/2 step above [#1]
Eb/ D# -22 ; -10 ; +2 ; +14 value if song is in the 2 of key U'r playing in.
E/ Fb -21 ; -9 ; +3 ; +15 if song is in #2/ b3 of key U're in.
F -20 ; -8 ; +4 ; +16 if song is in 3 of key U're in.
Gb/ F# -19 ; -7 ; +5 ; +17 if song is in 4 of key U're in.
G -18 ; -6 ; +6 ; +18 if song is in #4/ b5 of key U're in.
Ab/ G# -17 ; -5 ; +7 ; +19 if song is in 5 of key U're in.
A/ Bbb -16 ; -4 ; +8 ; +20 if song is in #5/ b6 of key U're in.
Bb/ A# -15 ; -3 ; +9 ; +21 if song is in 6 of key U're in.
B/ Cb -14 ; -2 ; +10 ; +22 if song is in #6/ b7 of key U're in.
C -13 ; -1 ; +11 ; +23 if song is in 7 of key U're in.
Understanding this table:
- This table can be used to transpose to any key the song is in relative to the key you are playing with.
- The 1st table shows transpose values to be used specifically when one is playing in the key of Db/ C# major or minor.
For instance, say someone started Anthem Of Praise in the key of A but you can only play it in Db/ C#, then you transpose by either : -4; +8; -16 or +20...
- Note that I have highlighted the transpose values with 1 digit numbers because it makes for quicker transposition...
- Each value of the transposition will sound higher or lower pitched (at the same frequency level). As a result, you might be required to go up or down the registered on the keyboard as dictacted by the pitch.
So, from the above table, we can see that column 1 is only usable if you are playing in Db/C# major or minor.
- The middle column is the column that is the crux of it all.
- If you are playing in any other key, then you use colums 2 & 3:
Say you are in the key of Eb and the singer starts a song in...B ;D (we know that B/ Cb is the #5/ b6 note in the key of Eb major) hence your options are to transpose by -4; +8; -16 or by +20..
I hope this makes sense.
ps:
The only reason I compiled this table is because time & time again, when I play backup with some players,
I look at their hands only to find that they have transposed >:( :-[, so now I just ask, "what's the transpose value, then I just know what key to play in...in effect, I use this system backwards.
I also find it to be useful when playing with people who don't understand the 1/2 step principle/ don't know all their keys in a band setup because you just shout, "+5" or "-7"...
I'm also aware that this table might seem useless to some people that transpose by just holding down their root note & hitting the "+" or "-" button until they get the right key.
Personally, I think that can be disturbing (especially if the singer is a nervous guy like me, :-[, they can be distracted by the "wrong key" & change keys easily).
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Unique, is that what you're talking about?
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Sounds like you're talking about manual transposing.
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Sounds like you're talking about manual transposing.
Is there automatic transposing???? ?/? ?/?
If we had automatic, then I'd call this type of transposing automatic ecause 1 stays in the same key & the keyboard changes the keys for them. But if you don't use the transpose button, then I would call that manual transposing..
in fact, it would be more like modulating..
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Is there automatic transposing???? ?/? ?/?
If we had automatic, then I'd call this type of transposing automatic ecause 1 stays in the same key & the keyboard changes the keys for them. But if you don't use the transpose button, then I would call that manual transposing..
in fact, it would be more like modulating..
Around here we call using the button automatic...if you do it without the button we call that manual. Here's an example
Scale of C
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1
In C the 1-3-5 would be C-E-G
I want to transpose that C-E-G (in the key of C) to the key of Eb
Scale of Eb
Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
The 1-3-5 in Eb would be Eb-G-Bb
This is what WE call manual transposition....its probably not even a word but hey it works for me. ;)
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Sorry if this topic was confusing and for my late response (computer issues) Im trying to learn everything in the correct key but the head musician uses transpose. Thanks for the chart. I think I can use it just to understand how he teaches.
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My pops uses transpose all the time and put everything in G. So If we learn any song outside G, I have to teach it to him in G for him to get it. I actually like it cause it shows that I can play any song in any key and most cases do it on the spot.