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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: betnich on September 08, 2008, 01:20:01 PM
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Yesterday I was in a church and the Pastor says, "Vote for Proposition 8".
For those who don't live in CA, that's the anti-gay marriage initiative, up on the ballot this Nov.
I thought tax-exempt churches couldn't endorse. Did he cross that line?
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From what I know, there is a federal tax law that bars tax-exempt churches from endorsing politian or engaging in any politics.
I think he crossed the line; but that's something I've seen before. Just before election time, this particular mayor would "make his rounds."
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He just should have went to the scriptures on that.
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He probably did cross the line, and probably doesn't care. If someone reports him, the church could lose tax-exempt status. I've never actually heard of it happening, but I've heard it threatened in recent years.
I have mixed feelings. Part of me says, let them take the exemption, it's better than selling out and being scared to tell the truth. The other part of me says he could just address what the bible says about homosexuality and let people make up their own minds. I don't think it's gotten that out of hand where they would do anything to him for that... yet.
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Well, he said, "Marriage is between a man and a woman" then made that endorsement. He didn't put any Bible behind it, just stated it at the beginning of his message, then went on to expound on another Bible passage.
It's not like I disagree, but he was so blatant about it. Warning Flag, anybody?
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I don't think preachers (who are over a church) should endorse certain candidates or issues that are to be voted upon from the pulpit. I have heard a preacher on the radio asking people to vote on a certain proposition, but the preacher on the radio was no longer the senior pastor of the church as he'd passed the reins on to younger leadership, so he could give his endorsement and not worry about the church losing its tax exempt status. Now, what they do at my church is they say something like "Hey everyone, it's almost time to vote. If you are not registered to vote, come on over to the community life center after service and get registered. While there, you'll find literature on the different candidates and issues and proposals. We can't tell you what to vote for or who to vote for, but we want you to be well educated and participate in this election, because this year is proving to be an important election year. Don't let your voice go unheard."
Since there's supposed to be a separation of church and state, I think that pastors shouldn't endorse candidates or issues from the pulpit. That's why Sarah Palin left one of her past churches, after she asked the congregation, while she was a politician, to pray that attacking Iraq was God's Will. I'm sure the leadership of that church didn't like the idea of losing their tax exempt status.
However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't allow candidates to come visit the church, but, they SHOULD encourage the congregation to get educated on the candidates and issues, register to vote, and make informed voting choices.
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No, No, No...Even though the Bible is against homosexuality, if you want to be considered a non-profit organization and tax exempt you cant. Politics and the pulpit should not be mixed on any level because the Bible does say you have to be a Dem. or Rep. to be saved. Honestly, I think, that as long as you preach biblical concepts and doctrine the ppl of God will more than likely the right choices, I mean we all have the same Spirit within us right? If we are led by him we'll be aight.
Plus (my 2 cent) Proposition 8 or not ppl are still gonna be homosexual if they want. The church needs to realize that we can't legislate people to be Christians or sin less for that matter. The reality is God gave us a great gift...free will...and some ppl will choose to serve Him and be saved...and some wont, and will be damned...unfortunately :-\.
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Now, what they do at my church is they say something like "Hey everyone, it's almost time to vote. If you are not registered to vote, come on over to the community life center after service and get registered. While there, you'll find literature on the different candidates and issues and proposals. We can't tell you what to vote for or who to vote for, but we want you to be well educated and participate in this election, because this year is proving to be an important election year. Don't let your voice go unheard."
Yes, that's the best way to handle it...
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I did some online research and sent the following email to the church office...
I recently attended a service and heard the pastor endorse Proposition 8.
Thought this link might be useful, if you haven't already looked into it -
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-structures/non-profit/non-profit-running.html (http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-structures/non-profit/non-profit-running.html)
Basically, this FindLaw page states that non-profit organizations may engage in limited political lobbying activity.
I am also attaching a document from the ACLJ site which goes into more detail on Tax law and IRS regulations...
http://www.aclj.org/media/pdf/040317_fed_campaign_finance.pdf (http://www.aclj.org/media/pdf/040317_fed_campaign_finance.pdf)
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Well, he said, "Marriage is between a man and a woman" then made that endorsement. He didn't put any Bible behind it, just stated it at the beginning of his message, then went on to expound on another Bible passage.
It's not like I disagree, but he was so blatant about it. Warning Flag, anybody?
what, are you looking for reasons to bounce or find fault ?/?
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what, are you looking for reasons to bounce or find fault ?/?
No - I just want to be careful. This church is close to my house, and I have visited several times. They teach the Bible, what they believe is close to what I believe, they do guitar-based P/W worship style rather than Gospel, but I can live w/that (I am not looking for someplace to play right now). The only thing that gives me pause is the right-leaning political focus - they had Mike Huckabee as a guest speaker not long ago...
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Well, he said, "Marriage is between a man and a woman" then made that endorsement. He didn't put any Bible behind it, just stated it at the beginning of his message, then went on to expound on another Bible passage.
It's not like I disagree, but he was so blatant about it. Warning Flag, anybody?
I understand where everyone was coming from in this thread. However I think I would be okay with this statement. Mainly because I know that he is saying what the bible says, so him not putting any bible behind it is fine for me.
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I have mixed feelings. Part of me says, let them take the exemption, it's better than selling out and being scared to tell the truth. The other part of me says he could just address what the bible says about homosexuality and let people make up their own minds. I don't think it's gotten that out of hand where they would do anything to him for that... yet.
Yep.
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http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12343407-activist-churches-bait-irs-but-agency-wont-bite-so-far?lite (http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12343407-activist-churches-bait-irs-but-agency-wont-bite-so-far?lite)
Pastor Jim Garlow will stand before congregants at his 2,000-seat Skyline Wesleyan Church in La Mesa, California, on Sunday, October 7, just weeks before the U.S. presidential and congressional elections, and urge his flock to vote for or against particular candidates.
He knows such pulpit pleading could endanger his church's tax-exempt status by violating IRS rules for a 501(c)(3) charitable organization. A charity can take a position on policy issues but cannot act "on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." To cross that line puts the $7 million mega-church's tax break at risk.
Even so, Garlow not only intends to break the rules, he also plans to spend the next four months recruiting other pastors to do the same as part of Pulpit Freedom Sunday. On that day each year since 2008, ministers intentionally try to provoke the IRS. Some even send DVD recordings of their sermons to the agency.
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Sounds like they WANT to pay taxes! (Which would be all right by me)
Or maybe they are hoping that the IRS will take the bait, so they can bring this issue all the way up to the Supreme Court...
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Whatever...sounds like a waste of time to me.
I'm bothered by any church or pastor who preaches politics in a place of holiness and righteousness.
I say keep politics out of the church, just as they seem to be trying to keep Jesus out of politics.
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I already know that the Sunday before election day, our pastor is going to preach about homosexuality or something and hint that we should vote republican. lol
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Why would someone need a preacher telling them who to vote for? That is idiotic and lazy. Do the homework and think for yourself.
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Why would someone need a preacher telling them who to vote for? That is idiotic and lazy. Do the homework and think for yourself.
How many people do you know who are able to think for themselves? :D
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How many people do you know who are able to think for themselves? :D
Able? Many. Willing? Not many. Especially if doing so will lead to criticism of our black president.
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Able? Many. Willing? Not many. Especially if doing so will lead to criticism of our black president.
Exactly. I was listening to the radio, and a caller said that she stands by her president whether he's right or wrong. I'm glad the host checked her on that, because that is just total ignorance. We can't not hold him accountable just because of his race and then wonder why he tries to helps gays and Latinos though legislation before addressing black people's concerns.
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Exactly. I was listening to the radio, and a caller said that she stands by her president whether he's right or wrong. I'm glad the host checked her on that, because that is just total ignorance. We can't not hold him accountable just because of his race and then wonder why he tries to helps gays and Latinos though legislation before addressing black people's concerns.
What are black people's concerns?
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What are black people's concerns?
I really don't know. And that's the problem. Everyone has so many different concerns that we can not even present a couple of our most important matters to our representatives like other groups can and do.
Obama knows he has the black vote no matter what. It's the gays and the latinos that might go either way, that's why he's pushing for them.
That's just how I see it.
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Well how can he address black people's concerns if they haven't been identified? The immigrant population identified their concerns as did the gay population. He heard it, he addressed it. How can we blame him for addressing their concerns before ours if we haven't identified or articulated our concerns?
Just asking.....
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Well how can he address black people's concerns if they haven't been identified? The immigrant population identified their concerns as did the gay population. He heard it, he addressed it. How can we blame him for addressing their concerns before ours if we haven't identified or articulated our concerns?
Just asking.....
40 acres and a mule ....
my only concern for African americans is access to quality lawyers