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Gospel Instruments => Organ Room => Topic started by: diverse379 on December 03, 2008, 02:39:49 PM
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I visited a church at a mens union our mens group attended.
I usually dont play with the men but Ended up going anyway.
most of the mens songs in these events have a blues quartet style to them.
To be different I rearranged the song slightly for this affair by using more beebop style chords
I wanted to give the song a different kind of swing
well we started to minister the song and a keyboardist whom I never saw began to play with us
this guy was so busy right out the gate
he was good but he was all over the place like he was taking a solo,
my problem was that my arrangement had the song start out with a real smooth laid back groove
and gradually would build to a frenzy
this guy started out in a frenzy and left us with nowhere to go afterwards,.
why do musicians in church feel that they need to compete instead of just making really good music
I know as an organist I like to leave holes for my fellow musicians to play through
but I have yet to meet a musician who does the same for me.
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I can't stand that >:( That's why I only call a few guys here in my area because a whole lot of them are good, but way to busy with runs and muddy chord changes. In a case like yours I just turn down the volume and pretty much stop playing by the time it's said and done, because there is no reason to go back and forth with someone who wants to show off instead of making room and playing off of each other.
There is a guy name Ralph here that may not be the sickest player in town, but he is so fun to play with during a service because he keeps things in perspective and gives people the ability to play with him. Hamilton Hardin is another cat that is real easy to play music with because he knows how to approach music in various settings and on various instruments. I try my best to do the same when I play.
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oh God yes! Don't even get me started on this subject. It was so bad, I basically just stopped playing and let dude have it all. I guess the term "less is more" doesn't compute to some people.
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I visited a church at a mens union our mens group attended.
I usually dont play with the men but Ended up going anyway.
most of the mens songs in these events have a blues quartet style to them.
To be different I rearranged the song slightly for this affair by using more beebop style chords
I wanted to give the song a different kind of swing
well we started to minister the song and a keyboardist whom I never saw began to play with us
this guy was so busy right out the gate
he was good but he was all over the place like he was taking a solo,
my problem was that my arrangement had the song start out with a real smooth laid back groove
and gradually would build to a frenzy
this guy started out in a frenzy and left us with nowhere to go afterwards,.
why do musicians in church feel that they need to compete instead of just making really good music
I know as an organist I like to leave holes for my fellow musicians to play through
but I have yet to meet a musician who does the same for me.
YES SAH!!! Too many times to even count! ;) Bishop Cole
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oh God yes! Don't even get me started on this subject. It was so bad, I basically just stopped playing and let dude have it all. I guess the term "less is more" doesn't compute to some people.
Im with midiroom on this one. I would have done the samething and stop playing. It really dont make no sense for anybody to compete we all in this together. What you should have done is unplug his keyboard ;D
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I was watching TBN one time and Kurt Carr was singing and his keyboardist must have had Espresso with a Red Bull!!! It was like his fingers were having seizures or something... he was adding so much that it totally took away from the song!!!
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think it's called MATURITY!!!!
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think it's called MATURITY!!!!
Yep! I play with a few young drummers that have yet to find their way to the pocket but have all of Spanky's licks down! *smh* I'd sometimes just rather play with a click track.
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think it's called MATURITY!!!!
It's true.
When you first start out you know nothing and you wish you had some nice stuff to play. But once you learn the nice stuff you have to learn to be tasteful. Everybody and there brother can teach you a nice progression or a nice lick, but cats don't teach placement, taste, and timing.
The guys who lay back and compliment the music are the ones who get called for recordings and gigs.
It's like some singers who feel the need to twist and turn every syllable of every word with vocal acrobatics.
In the end you'll say "That brother/sister can sing"...but you probably won't want to hear them again. :D
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Yep! I play with a few young drummers that have yet to find their way to the pocket but have all of Spanky's licks down! *smh* I'd sometimes just rather play with a click track.
Don't get me started on drummers. :o
As a former drummer, sometimes I hear a drummer and think "man I hope I never did that".
...I probably did though. :D
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why do musicians in church feel that they need to compete instead of just making really good music
It's called: INSECURITY - PRIDE - VANITY
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It's called: INSECURITY - PRIDE - VANITY
Girl, you need to post some chordz. :)
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Girl, you need to post some chordz. :)
HOL..ok..I'm at work now but I will when I get home...howya been..I haven't been on LGM in a minute.
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HOL..ok..I'm at work now but I will when I get home...howya been..I haven't been on LGM in a minute.
I KNOW! That's why I had to ask. Can't catch you much. :D
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well we started to minister the song and a keyboardist whom I never saw began to play with us
IMHO, here is where the problem started.
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It's true.
When you first start out you know nothing and you wish you had some nice stuff to play. But once you learn the nice stuff you have to learn to be tasteful. Everybody and there brother can teach you a nice progression or a nice lick, but cats don't teach placement, taste, and timing.
The guys who lay back and compliment the music are the ones who get called for recordings and gigs.
It's like some singers who feel the need to twist and turn every syllable of every word with vocal acrobatics.
In the end you'll say "That brother/sister can sing"...but you probably won't want to hear them again. :D
There are too many artists (that folks LOVE) who fall into that category for me. :-\
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speaking of drummers
this is somethign I wish more drummers though about doing
I was riding to a jazz open mic with a drummer
he put in a cd that he played on. I was listening and I noticed how tight the band was
how every instrument had tasteful licks and how every instrument seemed to shine almost all at the same time.
Then I noticed something every time an instrument had a part to play it could have been a lick a note
a chord not necesarily a solo but just a stab here or there a turn around or passing note,
The drummer set them up, he played a set up phrase pointing the listener to what was happening next.
I never heard a drummer do that before. but It helped the whole track sound better because the listener knew when to perk up his ears.
I wish more drummers thought about how to make the band sound better instead of ensuring that they are heard.
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Don't get me started on drummers. :o
Ever play w/a drummer who wants to get all their licks in, but it slows down and drags the music?
::)
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Everybody and there brother can teach you a nice progression or a nice lick, but cats don't teach placement, taste, and timing.
Can you really teach that? I think it's like having soul; you either got it or you don't.
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Can you really teach that? I think it's like having soul; you either got it or you don't.
I know what you're saying in that it isn't a technical thing but a 'feel' thing.
But with a good mentor to say "you played it like this...instead try playing it like this..." I think it can be learned. Not in a month, but with proper guidance.
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I wish a lot more drummers and guitarist wold listen to the organ trio guys ;like B Purdie on drums and Grant green on axe-those cats had it!for playing with organists.
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Can you really teach that? I think it's like having soul; you either got it or you don't.
It can be taught. It's called practice and being open-minded to instruction. There are cats that really have it but are not open or humble enough to receive instruction or constructive criticsm
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Girl, you need to post some chordz. :)
Here's a lil somethin
B/Eb A D/D F, C E
E/D F Ab B/Ab B, A C
A/E G A C/B D, A C
D/F# B C/E Ab, A
G/F A C E/A C E G
C/E B/E A B E
Where the comma is the right hand chord moves. If you don't understand, hit me up.
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Here's a lil somethin
B/Eb A D/D F, C E
E/D F Ab B/Ab B, A C
A/E G A C/B D, A C
D/F# B C/E Ab, A
G/F A C E/A C E G
C/E B/E A B E
Where the comma is the right hand chord moves. If you don't understand, hit me up.
I'll most definitely try these when I get home.
Thanks for sharing!
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It's called: INSECURITY - PRIDE - VANITY
btw, my busy drummer is from your area...grew up in CT :D
But there is a keyboard player around here (Virginia Beach area)...I've never heard him play. But I heard he is CRAAAAAZY. He's like John Peters reincarnate. But everything he plays sounds like the introduction to James Hall's "I'm not the same" *smh*
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btw, my busy drummer is from your area...grew up in CT :D
But there is a keyboard player around here (Virginia Beach area)...I've never heard him play. But I heard he is CRAAAAAZY. He's like John Peters reincarnate. But everything he plays sounds like the introduction to James Hall's "I'm not the same" *smh*
Don't you just hate it when a drummer is busy. Make him play in the pocket and get on his nerves.
Let me know when you finally hear that keyboard player. It's good to be highly gifted, but you got to have your own identity. I saw John Peters a couple of weeks ago in Brooklyn. We have been friends for years. He's a very humble person. You would never know that he is who he is just by first meeting him.
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Don't you just hate it when a drummer is busy. Make him play in the pocket and get on his nerves.
That's the plan. But his "pocket" is busy. But we have a new minister of music now so we're about to straighten some things up. So if he's gonna be the drummer, he has to come through me (MD)...and he's been coming and playing for a while, so to be proper, I'm gonna ask him to play first. But he HAS to play in the pocket...PERIOD.
Let me know when you finally hear that keyboard player. It's good to be highly gifted, but you got to have your own identity. I saw John Peters a couple of weeks ago in Brooklyn. We have been friends for years. He's a very humble person. You would never know that he is who he is just by first meeting him.
I'm sure the guy is talented, but from what I hear, he has no pocket on the keys. That joker plays everything way out in the ocean. You're like "wait...what song is this again?"
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That's the plan. But his "pocket" is busy. But we have a new minister of music now so we're about to straighten some things up. So if he's gonna be the drummer, he has to come through me (MD)...and he's been coming and playing for a while, so to be proper, I'm gonna ask him to play first. But he HAS to play in the pocket...PERIOD.
I'm sure the guy is talented, but from what I hear, he has no pocket on the keys. That joker plays everything way out in the ocean. You're like "wait...what song is this again?"
Don't you just HATE that!!! He's playing for himself and any musician who may be in the congregation. The majority of the congregation wouldn't 'get' what he's doing and it wouldn't minister to them.
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Don't you just HATE that!!! He's playing for himself and any musician who may be in the congregation. The majority of the congregation wouldn't 'get' what he's doing and it wouldn't minister to them.
You can say that again!!!
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Dont get me started on BUSY musicians............... :o :o :o ;D
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That's the plan. But his "pocket" is busy. But we have a new minister of music now so we're about to straighten some things up. So if he's gonna be the drummer, he has to come through me (MD)...and he's been coming and playing for a while, so to be proper, I'm gonna ask him to play first. But he HAS to play in the pocket...PERIOD.
I'm sure the guy is talented, but from what I hear, he has no pocket on the keys. That joker plays everything way out in the ocean. You're like "wait...what song is this again?"
I was going to suggest to let the M.O.M or M.D. speak with the drummer, but that's great that you guys are going to handle that problem.
As far as that keyboard player, if he's playing in a manner that can't be understood, didn't he shouldn't be playing. He's not suppose to confuse people but minister to people with the gift God has given him... ;)
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I was going to suggest to let the M.O.M or M.D. speak with the drummer, but that's great that you guys are going to handle that problem.
As far as that keyboard player, if he's playing in a manner that can't be understood, didn't he shouldn't be playing. He's not suppose to confuse people but minister to people with the gift God has given him... ;)
EXACTLY.
We've really lost focus. We're learnig chords, licks, runs, etc, etc, and we're doing it for the wrong reasons.
Many of us are doing it so that we can impress our circle of musician friends, or to be better than somebody else.
We should be trying to master our craft so that we can more effectively MINISTER.
When somebody gets up and starts speaking and you hear the musicians playing WAY too loud, or when hear a keyboardist playing a lot of abstract chords behind someone who's singing "Great is Thy Faithfulness", you know they aren't ministering.
They're doing their on thing.
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EXACTLY.
You just preached a whole message. We are suppose to usher the people of God into His presence, not lead them out!!!
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You just preached a whole message. We are suppose to usher the people of God into His presence, not lead them out!!!
So you mean it's not about me using latest phat chords (that don't fit) I learned last week to show off for my boy that's visiting? ?/?
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So you mean it's not about me using latest phat chords (that don't fit) I learned last week to show off for my boy that's visiting? ?/?
CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So you mean it's not about me using latest phat chords (that don't fit) I learned last week to show off for my boy that's visiting? ?/?
HOL!!!
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I'm sure the guy is talented, but from what I hear, he has no pocket on the keys. That joker plays everything way out in the ocean. You're like "wait...what song is this again?"
...Maybe he's 'playing in tongues' and needs an interpretation, LOL...
;)
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...Maybe he's 'playing in tongues' and needs an interpretation, LOL...
;)
or a rebuke....just like tongues did in 1 Cor. 14
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...Maybe he's 'playing in tongues' and needs an interpretation, LOL...
;)
:D
Nice!
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I think that busy musicians possibly are the ones that just haven't had many opportunities to play with other musicians. They sometimes are used to being the "whole band" and have little concept of team playing, because it IS two entirely different things.
That being said, as a primary keyboardist, but also a bassist(secondary) and a drummer(when asked), I tend to be very mindful of the musicians around me because we do have to work together. As a bassist especially, I cannot stand to have a busy keyboardist, who TAKES OVER my role on the bottom end, and there are times I will just put my bass down, and let them have the whole thing. I don't know, maybe I just think differently because I do play other instruments as well. I have a "Band sound" mindset.
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I think that busy musicians possibly are the ones that just haven't had many opportunities to play with other musicians. They sometimes are used to being the "whole band" and have little concept of team playing, because it IS two entirely different things.
That being said, as a primary keyboardist, but also a bassist(secondary) and a drummer(when asked), I tend to be very mindful of the musicians around me because we do have to work together. As a bassist especially, I cannot stand to have a busy keyboardist, who TAKES OVER my role on the bottom end, and there are times I will just put my bass down, and let them have the whole thing. I don't know, maybe I just think differently because I do play other instruments as well. I have a "Band sound" mindset.
Good points.
I started playing the drums, but when I moved to the Organ & keys it really opened my eyes to how bad it sounds when the drummer is all over the place.
I think having that perspective of playing different instruments really makes you better in a group.
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...Maybe he's 'playing in tongues' and needs an interpretation, LOL...
;)
HOL HOL HOL HOL!!!
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I think that busy musicians possibly are the ones that just haven't had many opportunities to play with other musicians.
I totally understand where you're coming from, but in my area(NJ/NY)there are so many gifted musicians and a lot of them as myself play in a band setting and have played for major artists. Some, not all, still tend to want to shine and show off. Now let me say when they get a gig with an artist, then all the fancy stuff tones down, because a big check is involved. But when they happen to be in a regular church setting or concert, then the craziness starts.
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My 2 cents...
I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. I think the biggest problem is sometimes there isn't any instruction for a lot of musicians in church. Some musicians really just find their way and like someone said earlier they learn a lot of licks and cool tricks and can't wait to try them out and to some it sounds busy. I think we fall short though if we don't at least try to raise the "busy" musician's awareness to his playing. Meaning, if you stop playing with someone, I think its unfair if you don't tell them why. I'm a huge advocate of communication because you never know someone's heart or their musical/spiritual maturity...I remember when I first started, like a lot of people, I was kicked off organs/keyboards/pianos and a lot of times no one ever told me why and I would actually know the song and could play. I think we owe a duty to other musicians to tell them what they are doing wrong and how their ministry may or may not be effective when we see error...
Also, a lot of times, I think musician's that become tasteful were probably busy at some point in time because they may still be "honing their sound" and then as they matured, as was said earlier, they then become more tasteful. I guess what I'm saying is a busy musician isn't always trying to show off...but may be trying to find themselves musically...
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I hate when "amateur" keyboardists learn runs (like the blues scale) and keep playing it over and over every 3 seconds-- It sounds so bad and so annoying.
But then on the other hand, I hate when the really good musicians twist a song beyond recognition by adding so many chords and runs!! Ironically, it really takes away from what you're doing, when you keep adding stuff... If you're gonna do runs and add chords, sprinkle them in there every now and then....