LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: Eman7 on December 16, 2004, 05:19:37 PM
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I don't completely understand 1-4-5's and 2-5-1's. I know 2-5-1's usually comes in during a end of a song and during the end of versus, and what about 1-4-5's. where do they fit. As a beggining musician, how often should I practice and what exactly do I practice.
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You're correct that you can use the 2-5-1 at the end for turn arounds but it can be used in other places as well it can be used in the beginning of a song or durring the verse It's bassed on the circle of 5ths
the 1-4-5 is used at the begining of a great deal of worship songs like
1. Praise is what I do
2. Because of who you are
3. I really love the lord
and many more
practice those two progressions in every key and listen closly to some cd's you'll began to here them played all over the place.
let me know if I can be of more assistance
be blessed
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IS this a good example for the 1-4-5 progression(just by the notes)
C
C-F-G
C#
C#-F#-G#
I'm sorry I get confused with these things too...Please help
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You're correct that you can use the 2-5-1 at the end for turn arounds but it can be used in other places as well it can be used in the beginning of a song or durring the verse It's bassed on the circle of 5ths
the 1-4-5 is used at the begining of a great deal of worship songs like
1. Praise is what I do
2. Because of who you are
3. I really love the lord
and many more
practice those two progressions in every key and listen closly to some cd's you'll began to here them played all over the place.
let me know if I can be of more assistance
be blessed
How are those progressions or any progressions related to the circle of 5ths? I thought the circle of 5ths was just a way to learn chord in different keys, or am I missing the big picture :?
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a good song to practiced these chords is the song "Felice Navidad" (i'm sure I spelled that wrong). The chords to the verse the progression:
"4-5-1-1" over and over ("Felice Navidad"),
and the verse is identical! ("I want to wish you a merry Christmas...")
In the key of C Major, the chords 4-5-1 are:
F Major, G Major and C Major.
Other chords can be used, but the 4-5-1 works just fine.
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I don't completely understand 1-4-5's and 2-5-1's. I know 2-5-1's usually comes in during a end of a song and during the end of versus, and what about 1-4-5's. where do they fit. As a beggining musician, how often should I practice and what exactly do I practice.
2-5-1 is a group of chords, that make up 1 of 4 basic progressions used in a song!
1-4-5's are not!!!!!
those are individual chords; used at separate times to play a song!...also known as the three basic chords of any song in the world!!!!!
ex:
key; c
C/CEG - A- MAZEING GRACE, HOW - 1
F/FAC - SWEET, THE - 4
C/CEG - SOUND, THAT. - 1
C/CEG - SAVED A WRECH LIKE - 1
G/GBD - ME ; I - 5
C/CEG - ONCE WAS LOST, BUT - 1
F/FAC - NOW, I'M - 4
C/CEG - FOUND, WAS - 1
C/CEG - BLIND, BUT - 1
G/GBD - NOW, I - 5
C/ CEG - SEE - 1
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How are those progressions or any progressions related to the circle of 5ths? I thought the circle of 5ths was just a way to learn chord in different keys, or am I missing the big picture
gtsjames,
No you're not missing the big picture. But you must realize that every thing you do in practice can be put to use in you playing some time.
I try to teach people ways to associate certain things about theory in a way that may make it easier to use in their playing.(though somtimes I'm the only one who can see it that way :lol: ) But I'll try to explain.
As you know the circle of 5ths takes you from one key to another in a very harmonious way but it also alows you to move within the structure of the key your playing in. In most cases other than abstract music at some point you will have to travel from the 1 to the 5. To do that you use chords or notes that are called passing tones. You can always accent with a passing tone from one half interval/step above or below the point you want to get to, the 1-4-5 progression starts on the 1 and resolves on the 5 the 4 can be part of the melody/harmony but essentially becomes a passing tone/chord to get you from where you started and where you want to end up.
think of the term progression (to move or to go forward, further or higher) .
Now some people call it the circle of 4ths because your going to the 4th in the scale degree and some call it circle of 5ths because your counting in intervals of 5 half steps. I've always called it the circle of fiths This is one reason I relate it to the circ of 5ths.
in the 145 progression you use the circ of 5ths you go from the 1 to the 5th interval (half steps) and then to the 5th scale degree. The fith scale degree ofcourse takes you back to the one by going up another five intervals (half steps). Or to start your 251 by going down 5 intervals (half steps) which then takes you back to your starting position by going up 5 intervals twice. So you see all you've really done is the circle of fiths
C-Fmaj-G7 Dm7-G7-Cmaj7 145 251
I hope this answers your question. I'll stop here and if you need more just let me know and I'll try to explain further.
hope this helps
be blessed
Now try this the next time you practice useing the circle of 5ths,
Go from Cmaj7 to Gb7 to Fmaj7 to G7
and do that consecutivly in every key just to spice up your circle of fiths exercise time.
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Hey Aljeres,
2-5-1 is a group of chords, that make up 1 of 4 basic progressions used in a song!
What are the other three, if I may ask?
Thanks, in advance
Jonathan
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I think this is a subjective answer... and I know I'll be probably be wrong... but I can't resist taking a crack at that one... so here goes:
1-4-1
1-5-1
5-1-3
I know there are others, but 5-1-3 seems contemporary to me... and I like it a lot.
Gieres?
God bless,
Eggs
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Hey Aljeres,
2-5-1 is a group of chords, that make up 1 of 4 basic progressions used in a song!
What are the other three, if I may ask?
Thanks, in advance
Jonathan
you have the: 251.....736.....514......362......put these together, and you can play anything!
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Gieres!!!!
I'm going to take you at your word, G!! Wish me luck and pray for a brotha!!
Jonathan
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Gieres,
So basically, you're saying the you can play anything with the circle of fourths/fifths, with the exception of the 5-1-4 right?
God bless,
Eggs
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A 5 - 1 - 4 is a 2 5 1.
You can really boil it down to 2 progressins:
1. Major 2 5 1
2. Minor 2 5 1
Lest look at the 5 1 4 in the key of C
5 = G
1 = C
4 = F
buuuttttt now, lets look at a 2 5 1 in the key of F
2 = G
5 = C
1 = F
See any similarities??? This is why playing in all keys is important.
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4hisglory,
I'm afraid I don't see how this helps me... I've been known to be a little
thick sometimes, so please explain...
Are you saying this helps for modulation purposes? I just don't see how a 2-5-1 in F helps me with a 5-1-4 in C?
God bless,
Eggs
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Hey Eggs:
Now, I could be waaaaay off base, but perhaps one thing about recognizing that a 5-1-4 in C is a 2-5-1 in F is for transposition during a song or transition between songs. Also, of course if you can recognize a particular progression in one key, it makes it easier to figure out a song in another key (using the same examples).
Again, I'm probably waaaaaay off base with this, but that's why we're here, right??
JOnathan
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Ok.....
But if I were moving a song from C to F, I would move a 2-5-1 as a 2-5-1.
In other words, I'd play a D-G-C as a G-C-F, not as a D-G-C again....
Now, if you are talking about keeping a run as the same notes or something, that's different. I can see how that helps.
Can someone help me out, if I'm missing something here?
Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs
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Gieres,
So basically, you're saying the you can play anything with the circle of fourths/fifths, with the exception of the 5-1-4 right?
God bless,
Eggs
im not sure exactly what you're saying, so i'll say this.......you can play anything you want, if you know the circle of fourths, and fifths, and by knowing the four basic progressions!
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4hisglory,
I'm afraid I don't see how this helps me... I've been known to be a little
thick sometimes, so please explain...
Are you saying this helps for modulation purposes? I just don't see how a 2-5-1 in F helps me with a 5-1-4 in C?
God bless,
Eggs
i had to get at this one......glory is correct in what he said, however, it is an advance theroy of thinking! someone taught him to look at it like that! and you will have to be as well.......
the fact of the matter is, unless you are able to really see the scales, as in more than one at a time, you will not understand this......when i am in one scale, i am actually playing in several others as well!.....this is indeed how the pros do it! but it is a mystery to those who have not been playing long enough, infact it totally looses em......lol
this is why i say if you no them, you can play anything you want......but those are only ways to move in fourths around the board! you have to learn how to walk, as well as build progressions......to really put it together!
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Gieres,
I understand the concept perfectly.... but with regard to the application?
I'm totally lost... just like you said. 8O
How the pros do what?
Anybody else?
God bless,
Eggs
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Gieres
What do you mean by "playing in other scales at the same time"?
Jonathan
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Look at it like this, for example:
If I am practicing the scale of "F" which is;
F G A Bb C D E F notes/fingers
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
1 - FAC is the major chord for F (from the 1-4-5 pattern)
4 - BbDF is a B flat chord
5 - CEG is a major chord in C
So, by playing a note or using a pattern or using a chord in any scale you are playing in several keys and don't realize it. :oops: So, just by playing in the key of F you can actually play 7 different keys by playing the different notes.
Okay - you need me to go a little bit further, for example:
Key of F which is the first note, you would list every chord you can for F, for G list every chord you can play for G and so on. These chords can be used over and over again in other keys. Just list out the scale and do the same thing I just did above. You get the idea for below,
Key of C scale/chords
C CEG EGC GCE CEbGBb etc.
D DBG BDG GDB DBbG etc.
E EGC GCE CEG EG#C etc.
F FAC ACF CFA FBbD etc.
G GBD BDG DGB GBbD etc.
So you see all the different chords and keys that apply to other keys. If you use this theory which is called listed tones and play your patterns you can figure out alot songs by listing or changing the pattern.
Hope this helps.
Joy
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Man, where have I been?? I've been missing out on this discussion. :)
Al and Joy have pretty much explained it but I guess we need to show application. Maybe someone should pick a song to apply some of these concept to it.
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4Hisglory, it's obvious you have that name for a reason, great idea! Now, here's something that I may be overthinking. As I looked at some of Joych's chords, I noticed that the first three were simply inversions of the same I chord. Can one really call these separate chords?
Thanks, in advance
Jonathan
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Welp....
I for one, could really use an example here, with an actual illustration.
I won't pick it, cuz it might be wrong! :D
Thanks for all the explanation so far... I understand what you are saying, but I don't see how to use it yet.
God bless,
Eggs
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i think what they are sayin (and this may be cause i'm just crazy in general ) is that while playing a song you can use a chord usually associated with another key becuase of the fact that they share the same note( and maybe i just confused everybody) say your playing a 1451 in C 1 is Cmaj 4 is Fmaj and so on but becuase F is also apart of many other scales such as F or Ab yo ucan play a chord that would usually be associated with an F in AB in the key of C. but then again like i said maybe that just added some confusion. i've only been playing for year but i'm crazy enough to try stuff like that just to see what it would sound like. people who are self taught tend to do silly things like that :lol: :oops:
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sjonathan02, it only matters how you think about.
I really need to put some information together about this to try to make it clear but here is a few tips that really helped me out. (You would think I am an expert player or something but NOT. :) There are two thinks I lack, 1. Chops 2. A command of alot of chord voicings).
1. Follow the bass "it never lies"
2. Learn all 12 major scales
3. Understand Scale Degrees
4. Look at the hands as a unit to see what chord you are playing
Ex: Key of C
L.H./R.H.
C/CEG
C/EGC
C/GCE
All of these are C chords in the root position chords because the C is in the bass.
Does anyone have a hymn that they wlike to play that we can analyse??
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Here is the chords to "Hallelujah" in the key of C
L/H. R.H. Lyrics
G HAL
G LE
C EGC LU
D FGC UU
E EGC JAH
E EGC HAL
B LE
F CFA 2X LU,JAH
D DBA HAL
C LE
G DGB LUJAH
F DFGB (FILLER)
G CFA,DGB HAL, LE
C CFA LU
C CEG
Now look at this song, what is the pattern in the key of C following the bass line?
C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joy
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The first thing I would try to do with this song is break it down to its simplest form via numbers so I can:
Easily transpose to any key in the future:
5.. HAL
5.. LE
1.. LU
1.. UU
1.. JAH
1... HAL
1... LE
4... LU
4... JAH
4... HAL
4... LE
5... LU
5... JAH
5... HAL
5.....LE
1... LU
1... JAH
Then I would add the chords to it.
G.. HAL
G.. LE
C.. LU
C.. UU
C.. JAH
C... HAL
C... LE
F... LU
F... JAH
F... HAL
F... LE
G... LU
G... JAH
G... HAL
G.....LE
C... LU
C... JAH
Now I will look at where I could spice stuff up. The first thing I see is that I was stuck on the I chord (C) for a while. Also I see that the after the C chord is an F Chord...so I know I can do a 2 5 1 (which is technically a 5 1 4) into the F Chord
G.. HAL
G.. LE
C.. LU
C.. UU
C.. JAH
Gm... HAL.......2
C7... LE .......5
F... LU ........1
F... JAH
F.. HAL
F... LE
G... LU
G... JAH
G... HAL
G.....LE
C... LU
C... JAH
I would also do the same thing to in order to move into the G
G.. HAL
G.. LE
C.. LU
C.. UU
C.. JAH
Gm... HAL.......2
C7... LE .......5
F... LU ........1
F... JAH
Am... HAL ......2
D7... LE .......5
G... LU .........1
G... JAH
G... HAL
G.....LE
C... LU
C... JAH
The I would just use later chords
Gsus7.. HAL
G13.. LE
C13.. LU
C9.. UU
C9.. JAH
Gm... HAL
C7... LE
F9... LU
F9... JAH
Am... HAL
D7... LE
G9... LU
G9... JAH
G9... HAL
G.....LE
C... LU
C... JAH
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WAIT A MINUTE!!!
Color me stupid, but you mean that you're supposed to be playing these 2-5-1 and 7-3-6's between various notes???!?!
So then, how does one choose when to play these progressions?
Anxiously awaiting responses.
Jonathan
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AND you're saying that you use these progressions using the scale of the note that you're going to (i.e going to from C -F in our example using the 2-5-1 from the key of F)?
I hope I said all of that correctly!!
Jonathan
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sjonathan02, I just want to make sure that you understand that I typically think about progressions in regards to "where I am going". So since I am going to the F, I think 2 5 1, but below is what the actual progression would be in the key of C.
G.. HAL
G.. LE
C.. LU
C.. UU
C.. JAH
Gm... HAL.......5
C7... LE .......1
F... LU ........4
F... JAH
Am... HAL ......6
D7... LE .......2
G... LU .........5
G... JAH
G... HAL
G.....LE
C... LU .......1
C... JAH
I am not really a scale expert But in this little song, there are alot of different scales you could us, C Major, F Major, Gmajor, C Pentatonic, etc...
On thing that helped me alot was when I realized that songs, even though it says it is in one key, it can change key throughout the song.
This song is an example of it.the Key is C, but it temporarily goes to the key of F and and the key G.
The secret to making this happen is have a large chord vocabulary (which I don't). This is important so you will have smooth voicing leading from one chord to the next.
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4hisglory,
Ahhhhhhh!.... excellent, my brutha... excellent. Now I see the application, and can't wait to get at my board tonight.
This is interesting to me because it allows you to introduce minor chords where they would not normally be. I think I've probably done this because it sounded good, but had no idea what the theory was behind it.
I assume that this works with any progression?... What about different scale modes? Minor?
God bless,
Eggs
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This has got to be the single-most greatest discussion related to learning how to play piano I've had EVER!!
*Side Bar* It's too bad you're not a music teacher, Eggs. I get the chance to work these little tidbits out right here then practice them some more at home (although, I wish I had a computer at home) *End side bar*
Pentatonic, Pentatonic, Pentatonic! I keep reading this word, what exactly does it mean other than the 5 tone scale, and how would one apply it to our example? Also, finger licks (or runs) how do you know which notes to play?
Again, this discussion has been great and THANKS!!
Jonathan
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Also, 4Hisglory, I like that way that you think because your using a system I'm familiar with (in terms of the numbers). So, I'll try it like that and see how it goes.
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I don't completely understand 1-4-5's and 2-5-1's. I know 2-5-1's usually comes in during a end of a song and during the end of versus, and what about 1-4-5's. where do they fit. As a beggining musician, how often should I practice and what exactly do I practice.
I think your question is based more in understanding how secondary dominants and the Circle of 5ths work. 2 being the secondary dominant to 5, and 5 being the dominant to 1.
Example: Key of C major
The progression moves from a D7th chord (secondary dominant to G), to a G7th chord (which is the dominant of C), to a C chord.
As concerning 1-4-5:
Progressing from 1 to 4 is quite common. The 1 chord is the dominant of 4. (in any key) The progression of 4 to 5 is also very common, but not dominant progression.
Hope this helps
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Look at it like this, for example:
If I am practicing the scale of "F" which is;
F G A Bb C D E F notes/fingers
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
1 - FAC is the major chord for F (from the 1-4-5 pattern)
4 - BbDF is a B flat chord
5 - CEG is a major chord in C
So, by playing a note or using a pattern or using a chord in any scale you are playing in several keys and don't realize it. :oops: So, just by playing in the key of F you can actually play 7 different keys by playing the different notes.
Okay - you need me to go a little bit further, for example:
Key of F which is the first note, you would list every chord you can for F, for G list every chord you can play for G and so on. These chords can be used over and over again in other keys. Just list out the scale and do the same thing I just did above. You get the idea for below,
Key of C scale/chords
C CEG EGC GCE CEbGBb etc.
D DBG BDG GDB DBbG etc.
E EGC GCE CEG EG#C etc.
F FAC ACF CFA FBbD etc.
G GBD BDG DGB GBbD etc.
So you see all the different chords and keys that apply to other keys. If you use this theory which is called listed tones and play your patterns you can figure out alot songs by listing or changing the pattern.
Hope this helps.
Joy
WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
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Thanks Daryl, that was nice of you to break that down and I'm glad Egg and SJonathan got it. :D :lol:
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icdattoney,
I understand your theory explanations on secondary dominates and dominant progressions. But I need to see things in action.
How does what you are explaining help me, or the original poster decide where/when to use a 2-5-1 or a 1-4-5 when we are chording a song?
Can you give an example?
God bless,
Eggs
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im going to show you exactly what i mean........now i read a lot, and a lot of it was awesome, but now to understand it means you can create it!!!!!!!!! im going to show you waht i mean eggs, with useing the other progressions, and as far as when, it really is up to you.....the key thing to remember about the progressions, is.......they move in fourths.......but ima show you how i totally incorporate other scales as well as their basic progressions.....i am not refering to INVERSIONS..... let me say it again...i am not refering to INVERSIONS!!!!!!
some have wrote nothing more than a inversion, and that's not what i am refering to, i am actually refering to another chord all together when i get ready......one more last point, to really help you out.....
*******
*******
*******___ always remeber where your atarting point is of your progression, or phrase of the song.......and always remember where your going!!!!!
you cant take it for granted; when you say i want to move from a CM TO FM.......WHY? BECAUSE, AS I MOVE, TECHNICALLY I AM MOVEING THROUGH THOSE SCALES......SO ALL I SEE IS OPTIONS ON TOP OF OPTIONS.....IMA MAKE A MIDI OR AN MP3......AND IMA POST SOMETHING TO THIS EFFECT!!!! STAY TUNE!!!!!!
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Hey Gieres,
Thanks in advance for breaking stuff down for a brotha. Would it be possible for you to put the numbers next to the chords? Something like what 4hisglory did. It makes it easier, for a novice like me, to truly understand (and ultimately create) the concepts being discussed.
Again, I truly thank God for all of you who take the time to teach.
Jonathan
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Gieres,
Great! Thanks! I can't wait. But while I'm waiting I have two questions:
1. What happens on a minor scale degree? Let's say I'm in Db major, and I want to move to my 3 from my 7. If I use a 3-6-2-5-1 to get there, would I use Ab major for the 3?
2. If I'm understanding this correctly, the chord that I'm playing is contexted by the chord I play next. In other words, C major is dominant, if I play G major next?... and so on?
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Hiya Eggs:
My brotha you have me confused. If you start in any key, say Db, and move from to the 3 from your 7, you're already in the start of a 7-3-6...progression ( at least as I understand it).
Are you asking if there is (what I'll call) a "mini-progression" going from 7-3?
And, you're second question has me completely befuddled; but I like it!!!
Lata, man
Jonathan
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Gieres,
Great! Thanks! I can't wait. But while I'm waiting I have two questions:
1. What happens on a minor scale degree? Let's say I'm in Db major, and I want to move to my 3 from my 7. If I use a 3-6-2-5-1 to get there, would I use Ab major for the 3?
2. If I'm understanding this correctly, the chord that I'm playing is contexted by the chord I play next. In other words, C major is dominant, if I play G major next?... and so on?
thanks for the question!!!!
no! is the answer.....your idea of useing the 3-6-2-5-1 would be premised off of where you're going, in this case, you're going to the 3 ( f ) so you're progression to get there based off of what we're talking about would start off of the 3 of the scale you're going to....which is A..... NOW; YOU DO A 3-6-2-5-1....STARTING WITH A BEING THE THIRD SCALE DEGREE, AND YOU WILL END UP ON YOUR 3 IN DbM....BUT! YOU WILL NEED TO STILL PLAY A MINOR CHORD WHEN YOU GET THERE!.......NOW THIS WILL SOUND FUNNY, AND STRANGE, BUT WILL DO THE JOB, AND WELL IF DONE WITHIN THE TIME FRAME!!!!
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OK! EVERYONE, I HAVE AN AUDIO CLIP......IT'S ABOUT 11MINS LONG, DESCRIBING WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT! ANYONE WHO WANTS IT SENT TO THEM CAN EMAIL ME AT ALGIERES@YAHOO.COM AND I WILL BE GLAD TO SEND IT TO YOU.......
I AM WRITING UP ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YOUR LIBRARIES AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I AM DONE! AND LIKEWISE I WILL SEND IT TO YOU!
HOLLA!
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Thanks Gieres!
I follow you. But are you saying that you always use a MAJOR scale for your "secondary" progressions? Even if you start on a MINOR scale degree?
Hey, don't forget to post that example! :D
Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs
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Thanks Gieres!
I follow you. But are you saying that you always use a MAJOR scale for your "secondary" progressions? Even if you start on a MINOR scale degree?
Hey, don't forget to post that example! :D
Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs
NO! IT'S UP TO YOU...........THEIR ARE TWO THINGS YOU CAN DO;
1) - YOU CAN PLAY IN THE BOX
2) - YOU PLAY OUT OF THE BOX
I DO BOTH...............A LOT OF PEOPLE PLAY WELL WITHIN THE BOX!
THE PROS ALMOST ALL THE TIME PLAY OUT OF THE BOX ENTIRELY!
SO IF I CHOOSE A MAJOR SCALE, IT'S OUT OF THE BOX.........BUT I WANT TO CHALLENGE YOU A LITTLE......WELL A LOT!
TRY THINKING OF IT LIKE THIS!........LOOK AT THE BOARD FROM THE LEFT TO THE RIGHT!
AND INSTEAD OF LOOKING SO HARD AT THE CHORDS!.......I WANT YOU TO ALMOST THINK LIKE A CHILD.......AND ONE PATICULAR WHO KNOWS VERY LITTLE IF NOT ANY AT ALL ABOUT THE BOARD!
NOW IF I SAID JONNIE! I WANT YOU TO GO FROM C TO F......JONNIE WOULDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO......SO HE WOULD DO ANYTHING......
SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS JUST LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL NOTES ON THE BOARD AND SAY TO YOURSELF....( WHO HAS AN ADVANTAGE ON JONNIE ) WHAT CHORDS DO I KNOW NO MATTER WHAT KEY THEY ARE IN, TO PLAY TO ALLOW ME TO GO FROM C TO F .......
NOW YOU HAVE PROBABLY NEVER THOUGHT LIKE THIS.......BECAUSE IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!
I AM NOT ASKING YOU FOR A LOGICAL REASONING WHEN YOU DO THIS!....I JUST WANT YOU TO DO IT!
THIS IS THE HARDEST THING IN THE WORLD FOR A BEGINNER AND MOST INTERMEDIATES TO DO.......BUT THE PROS DO IT ALL THE TIME AND WE MARVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I AM WRITING SOMETHING UP NOW......BUT IMA LET YOU SEE THIS, AND IT WILL GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT I DO FOR THOSE PROGRESSIONS WHEN I GET READY! KEEP THIS IN YA LIBRARY....
Let’s look at some common prgressions; done the way I do them……..
Key;Ab
CHORDED BY ALGIERES
LH = LEFT HAND
RH = RIGHT HAND
…… = CONTINUATION OF CHORD
( # ) = FLATTED NBR,
OK LET’S GET STARTED….
THIS IS KNOWN AS A 1 TO THE 4 WALK AND IT’S COMMON, BUT NOT SO MUCH LIKE THIS….THIS IS HOW I MIGHT DO IT……I HAVE SEVERAL WAYS!!!!
LH/RH
AbCEb/GBbCEb – 1
BbF/AbCC#F – 2
CEBb/CEbAb – 3
C#FAb/CEbFAb – 4
NOW, LET’S DO A 2 TO THE 5 PROGRESSION….MY WAY!
BbF/AbCC#F – 2
CG/BbDEbG – 3
C#FAb/CEbFAb – 4
DAb/CDFAb – ( 5 )
EbGBb/C#FBb – 5
NOW LET’S TURN AROUND WITH THE WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE 3 TO 6 PROGRESSION!!!!
START WITH THESE INDIVIDUAL NOTES…..DO WITH BOTH HANDS….
LH/RH
Eb, D, C#, …….
CG/BbCEG – 6
CAb/CDFAb – ( 5 )
Ebb/C#EFBb – ( 6 )
FAbC/EbGBb – 6
NOW WE WILL HEAD TO THE HOUSE WITH A WHAT IS KNOWN AS; A 3- 6 – 2 PROGRESSION….. WHICH IS A BRIDGE TYPE OF PROGRESSION…….
CBb/EAbBbEb…..C# ( SLIDE LAST FINGER TO LEFT TO C# )- 3
FEb/AC#EbAb….F# SAME AS OTHER! -- 6
BbC#F/AbCEb…..F ( SLIDE LAST FINGER RT, FOR F ) -- 2
AND NOW WE WANT TO GO HOME WITH A COMMON 2-5-1 PROGRESSION…
BbAb (IN THIS ORDER )/ C#FAbC – 2
EbGBb/C#FGC -- 5
AbG/CEbGBb – 1
NOW YOU HAVE TO GET USE TO THE SOUND; BUT IF YOU KEEP DOING IT, YOU’LL GET USED TO IT!!!!!!!!!! DON’T QUIT ON YOURSELF!!!
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ok, here is the link, as promised!......and im still sending to anyone who wants it!.......but you can hear it here!
http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-48-0.html
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It seems you uploaded ok. :wink: Nice little clip. :)
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1 4 5's or I IV V
ex key of C
C E G F A C G B D these are all major chords in C maj. the only
1 4 5 major chords in a given major key are the 1 4 5
2 3 6 or ii iii vi are the minor chords in a given major key
d f a e g b a c e
the 7 degree which a chord is built on in a mojor key is a diminish chord
vii
b d f
intervals
maj 3 + min3 = MAJOR CHORD
min 3 + maj3 = minor chord
min 3 + min3 = diminish chord (half diminish)
in your post it seemed as if you wanted to know the functions of the chords and how they are placed to gether in music to create music
r atleast how those chords work
email me at gabrielvaughn@hotmail.com and i will try my best to assist you
may God bless you
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Gieres,
Excellent... Excellent... Excellent! I can't wait to get at my board.
But if you would, please verify the following chords:
(Moving from 1 to 2 in Bb major)
(2-5-1 in C): Dm G Cm
(7-3-6 in Eb): Ddim Gm Cm
Are these the basic chords you were using in there?
Also, is there a finite list of relationships between scale degrees?
i.e. does a 2-5-1 always equal a 7-3-6 somewhere?... or can any progression be any other progression? Is there some sort of chart for this? (I hope I'm being clear on my question)
Thanks for all your help,
God bless,
Eggs
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I must say, that is a nice little lesson. I immediately printed off my little progression chart
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/ebooks/charts.pdf
page 3.
So I can look at the relationships in all the keys (since I cant see them al yet).
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Gieres!,
Are you still out there? It would really help me a lot if you could take a look at my previous questions!
Thanks, and
God bless,
Eggs
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Gieres,
Excellent... Excellent... Excellent! I can't wait to get at my board.
But if you would, please verify the following chords:
(Moving from 1 to 2 in Bb major)
(2-5-1 in C): Dm G Cm
(7-3-6 in Eb): Ddim Gm Cm
Are these the basic chords you were using in there?
Also, is there a finite list of relationships between scale degrees?
i.e. does a 2-5-1 always equal a 7-3-6 somewhere?... or can any progression be any other progression? Is there some sort of chart for this? (I hope I'm being clear on my question)
Thanks for all your help,
God bless,
Eggs
ok, yes those are the basic progressions i used in the clip! and yes and no! to your second question!
this is why!
now on a more advanced theory; you can do what you want whenevr you want, as long as you can remember it!.......
in other words, it's because i have memorized the progressions in every key........not only that, but there are substitutes for every chord i have also memorized! and not only that, i have memorized all the rules, that apply to a chord!.......like depending on the purpose of the chord, their are rules to apply.......so what i can do is, totally make up a progression, and i can call it a 2-5-1 progression!......now this is on a more advanced theory!...
yes, i have a book of chords showing all substitutes! for a small fee! and it shows you how you can play a regular chord like a CM chord and it's substitutions......you still would have to memorize this stuff!!!!!!! lol it takes time, i feel well worth it!
now what can ahppen to your playing by understanding it as i do?
1 - you will develope you own sound......
2 - your own progressions..( i dare say; noone plays like you )
3 - ( gods nbr of completetion ) you don't ever have to sound like the next guy ever, ever, everrrrrrrrrr again! and ima a living example!!!!!
if you listen to a lot of people, you honestly have to agree, most sound alike! allthough i agree, to some extent, you have to do some things alike, because it is so.......you just can't tear up a hymn when you get ready! you will insult it! and offend others!
but!
when you understand it like i do.....you have total control, of what you want to do! notice i said ( YOU WANT TO DO.....YOU, YOU, YOU ) it's all up to you!
ya see, i'm showing you how to create!
now that's what the deference is between a person who is playing the piano or organ, or keyboard, and someone who is really able to play like a pro, or soon to be by faith!
anyone can copy another person to the letter!
but it takes someone special to be able to design, or create it!
think of being able to do what you want, and not feeling like my lack thereof is dictating to me!
in otherwords, i have the power to be at a level i really desire! because when you finally UNDERSTAND this theory! it comes down to these few things, and nothing else!!!!
faithfulness - to the craft!
diligence - to the craft!
work ethics - to the craft!
daily - you have to do it everyday! no less than five days a week!
focus- on this craft....( more than probably any other passion )
if you could talk to a professional, he wouldnt say anything less than i just said!, you have to hunger this! want it!, ya see and ya mind will begin to come up with ways to get it!
now notice i didnt say a word about god!
most if not all know we cannot do anything without god!......but now listen! dont get mad when i say this!!!!!
if you don't put ya time in on a craft or gift that god has given ya; i believe god sits back and waits on ya!
we have to study, to show ourselves.....i'm not trying to preach, but i am saying, people talk about the annointing, and sometimes i think they think god is also stupid! like god doesnt believe in colleges, or schools of reformations......but god is the first, to take us to school! god is a god of education, and he is all knowing!, so now why would he make someone the best, and baddest, and they don't practice, dont study, don't even really believe the word!..........now i'm not saying it's not possible!.....all i am saying is......i aint sitting around wating on that kind of annointing....lol im a do sumtin to occupy!
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Here are some examples of different types of progressions. I am going to put them in Eb cuz that's my favorite key:
7-3-6
F,Eb / F,G (single notes)
D / C-F-Ab (7)
G / B-Eb-F-Bb (3)
C / C-Eb-G (6)
2-5-1
F / B-Eb-F-Ab (2)
F / Bb-Eb-G OR G / Bb-Eb-G
F / B-Eb-F-Ab OR Ab / B-Eb-F-Ab
Bb / Bb-Eb-G (5)
Bb / Ab-Bb-Eb-F (5) *Eb is suspended
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-F (5) *Eb slides to D
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1)
Here is 7-3-6 & 2-5-1 together
F,Eb / F,G (single notes)
D / C-F-Ab (7)
G / B-Eb-F-Bb (3)
C / C-Eb-G (6)
F / B-Eb-F-Ab (2)
F / Bb-Eb-G OR G / Bb-Eb-G
F / B-Eb-F-Ab OR Ab / B-Eb-F-Ab
Bb / Bb-Eb-G (5)
Bb / Ab-Bb-Eb-F (5) *Eb is suspended
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-F (5) *Eb slides to D
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1)
Now I bet yall probably wondering where u can use this. I use these chords to play the slow congregational "Yes Lord" song. If u don't believe me, here it is:
Yes Lord
Eb / G-Bb-Eb
F / F-Ab-Eb
Gb / Gb-A-Eb
G / G-Bb-Eb
Yes
Ab / Ab-C-Eb Lord
A / Gb-A-C-Eb
Yes Lord
F,Eb / F,G (single notes)
D / C-F-Ab (7)
G / B-Eb-F-Bb (3)
C / C-Eb-G (6)
Yes
F / B-Eb-F-Ab (2)
F / Bb-Eb-G OR G / Bb-Eb-G
F / B-Eb-F-Ab OR Ab / B-Eb-F-Ab
Bb / Bb-Eb-G (5) Lord
Yes
Bb / Ab-Bb-Eb-F (5) *Eb is suspended
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-F (5) *Eb slides to D
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) Lord
Tritone ending:
Gb / E-Bb-Eb
F / Eb-A-Eb
Bb / D-Ab-Eb
Eb / Db-G-C-Eb
If anyone needs anymore help just holla at ya boy!!!
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Gieres,
Thanks for the reply. I'm feelin' ya.
My question was really about progressions like 2-5-1 being a 7-3-6 etc., but I guess that is really a type of substitution anyway. And your point is that I can substitute whatever I want, when I want anyway.
This is good stuff.
I can't be the only one with questions/comments on this! Is anybody else following this?
God bless,
Eggs
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Wow...this is an excellent example. Thanks
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If u play the chords from the post of "Yes Lord" I did, listen to Bishop Paul S. Morton's CD Let it Rain and listen to track number 4. It starts off with "I Need Thee" then goes into "Yes Lord". This is where I got my chords from. The CD has it in the Key of B, but I play it in Eb.
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WOW!! A brotha goes on vacation (well, not really just home from teaching for a week, but without a computer) and misses A LOT of information. Looks like I'll get to catch up on my reading and playing tonight.
And, no Eggs, you aren't the only one with questions; I've got to process first.
Here's one quick question, Gieres, does a 2-5-1 ALWAYS fit when going from 1-4? I tried it in the congregational song "Amen" and it didn't seem to fit.
Thanks all,
Jonathan
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WOW!! A brotha goes on vacation (well, not really just home from teaching for a week, but without a computer) and misses A LOT of information. Looks like I'll get to catch up on my reading and playing tonight.
And, no Eggs, you aren't the only one with questions; I've got to process first.
Here's one quick question, Gieres, does a 2-5-1 ALWAYS fit when going from 1-4? I tried it in the congregational song "Amen" and it didn't seem to fit.
Thanks all,
Jonathan
two things are critical;
1 - timeing.......how much time in between where comeing and where your going?
2 - are you useing proper voicings?
i am not sure if you are talking about the common song most use in departure! im from a pentacostal church!
or if you.re refering to a medium tempo or fast, or slow way! but the suggestion alone of going from the 1 to the 4 would suggest that a 2 to the 5 progression in another key scale would work!.............
rem**** the sound wont be the same! so it is a sound you get used to doing, remember this isnt about so much of what you hear, we already know it is challenging to the ear! but if i am wanting to be a little defferent with my playing, which is to say, a little deferent in my sound!....then that's what happenes....chk out my newest clip!
i already posted it! be blessed!
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Hey Gieres,
Looks like that new clip you loaded sort of replaced the audio clip you had there.... that was a great audio clip!
BTW, you are awesome man. You have been a great help to me.
How can I see a sample of one of your videos?
God bless,
Eggs
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He has a video sample here... http://www.geocities.com/algieres/audio_video.html ..so chk it out!!
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Hey Gieres,
Looks like that new clip you loaded sort of replaced the audio clip you had there.... that was a great audio clip!
BTW, you are awesome man. You have been a great help to me.
How can I see a sample of one of your videos?
God bless,
Eggs
I HAVE A SMALL VERSION OF ME PLAYING I LOVE YOU MY VERSION ON THE SECOND PAGE OF MY SITE!
I WILL PUT ANOTHER UP FOR YA! JUST PROMISE YOU'LL CHK OUT THE SITE, AND I WILL DO IT FOR YA......I WILL PUT IT ON THE SECOND PAGE!
- IT. WILL BE FROM MY TAPE TWO!
- MY TAPE ONE IS REALLY FOR BEGINNERS!.............TOTAL BREAK DOWN OF SCALES......
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Gieres,
I've already scoped out your site! :D
But I would ask that you post a clip that has an example of you teaching something good. I'm not at the point where I can watch someone playing, and pick things up yet.
At this point, I would say that my understanding of the theory, has exceeded my chops.... but I'm practicing every day.
I'll keep looking for that clip... make it plain! :D
God bless,
Eggs
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Gieres,
I've already scoped out your site! :D
But I would ask that you post a clip that has an example of you teaching something good. I'm not at the point where I can watch someone playing, and pick things up yet.
At this point, I would say that my understanding of the theory, has exceeded my chops.... but I'm practicing every day.
I'll keep looking for that clip... make it plain! :D
God bless,
Eggs
look at my brownfloyd .
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this is a clip of me teaching ya how to walk around the board!
ima come back with a clip showing you how to walk around in one key while useing another keys walks!.............
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Can someone clarify the typical chord structures for the following progressions: (Key of C#/Db example)
2-5-1 (Is the 2 chord always a minor?)
Eb-Ab-Db?
7-3-6
C-Fm-Bb (augmented etc.??)
5-1-4
3-6-2
Is the a pattern to follow (1=maj 2=maj, etc??
Thanks for the help & Be Blessed
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this is a clip of me teaching ya how to walk around the board!
ima come back with a clip showing you how to walk around in one key while useing another keys walks!.............
http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-48-9.html
SORRY! HERES THE CLIP!
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Not sure if the clip answered my question. I am really after the common chord patterns for Gospel Music: 2-5-1, etc.
I assume there is a common theory that the one chord is always major the 3 chord is always minor, etc. can anyone help clarify this for me?
Thanks
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you know Gieres i was at the board yesterday and i was thinking about what you said about looking at the board as just notes and stuff and i found myslef playing what sounded kind of abstract at first but after a while i kept playing it and my ear got use to hearing it and your right it sounds rediculously sick when you just jump all over the board and really let go of some of the "rules" of playing , it's like using the theory of the whole thing to bend the rules and theoretical it's sound but when you listen to it it's sick. thank you for liberating me i am now a free man on the board and i will no longer let those lil black and white keys hold me down.
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oh yeah and breyes777 to answer your question you can do whatever you want as long as it sounds good, but really becuase of the fact that the 2 in any key is a minor chord if i'm not mistaken in the progression 2-5-1 the 2 will be a minor chord and that's just trying to keep it basic but you can technically play any two chord in the key your playing in,say your in C the 2 chord would be D you can play Dm or you can play any chord associated with D it depends on what kind of sound your looking for and as long as it sounds goodyour good to go, am i right people or have i let my new found freedom get the best of me?
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i have memorized the progressions in every key........not only that, but there are substitutes for every chord i have also memorized! and not only that, i have memorized all the rules, that apply to a chord
aljeres, I know this one is a little late, but where can I find the substitutions and rules you are talking about, or where can I find your book :?
Lots of information not enough piano time...... :(
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Not sure if the clip answered my question. I am really after the common chord patterns for Gospel Music: 2-5-1, etc.
I assume there is a common theory that the one chord is always major the 3 chord is always minor, etc. can anyone help clarify this for me?
Thanks
how do you want them actually wrritten out? there are four basic ones;
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i have memorized the progressions in every key........not only that, but there are substitutes for every chord i have also memorized! and not only that, i have memorized all the rules, that apply to a chord
aljeres, I know this one is a little late, but where can I find the substitutions and rules you are talking about, or where can I find your book :?
Lots of information not enough piano time...... :(
it will cost a small fee mann..............but if you are serious, let me know, this is some good stuff!
email me at the site below!
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i have memorized the progressions in every key........not only that, but there are substitutes for every chord i have also memorized! and not only that, i have memorized all the rules, that apply to a chord
aljeres, I know this one is a little late, but where can I find the substitutions and rules you are talking about, or where can I find your book :?
Lots of information not enough piano time...... :(
it will cost a small fee mann..............but if you are serious, let me know, this is some good stuff!
email me at the site below!
algieres@yahoo.com
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Not sure if the clip answered my question. I am really after the common chord patterns for Gospel Music: 2-5-1, etc.
I assume there is a common theory that the one chord is always major the 3 chord is always minor, etc. can anyone help clarify this for me?
Thanks
try this....
key C
LH/RH
D/FACE - 2
G/FAbBD- 5
C/EGC- 1
G/FABbD- 5
C/EABbD-1
F/EGAC-4
B/ABDF-7
E/AbBDF- 3
A/GBCE-6
E/DGB-3
A/EGAC-6
D/DFAC-2
NOW THEIR YOU GO.........THOSE WILL GET YOU THROGH JUST ABOUT ANY WORSHIP SONG!
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you know Gieres i was at the board yesterday and i was thinking about what you said about looking at the board as just notes and stuff and i found myslef playing what sounded kind of abstract at first but after a while i kept playing it and my ear got use to hearing it and your right it sounds rediculously sick when you just jump all over the board and really let go of some of the "rules" of playing , it's like using the theory of the whole thing to bend the rules and theoretical it's sound but when you listen to it it's sick. thank you for liberating me i am now a free man on the board and i will no longer let those lil black and white keys hold me down.
I WONDER IF YOU REALLY DO WHAT I SAY! GO LOOK AT MY VEDIO CLIP ON MY SIGHT, AND YOU WILL SEE, WHAT I DO, AND HOW I DO IT!.....ONEC YOU GET USED TO THE SOUND, YOU WILL KNOW HOW TO CREATE IT, WHEN YOU GET READY!....MY YAHOO SITE!.....SECOND PAGE!
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aljeres
Can you repost that clip with you walking, I had yesterday, but I can't seem to get to it today.
Thanks,
Jonathan
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iGieres,
Sorry man... I've had an operation, and I've been flat on my back for a week. All those who know the word of prayer, please pray for me.
I can't view the brownfloyd clip. I get some sort of template error.
Do you know what's wrong?
Thanks.
God bless,
Eggs
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iGieres,
Sorry man... I've had an operation, and I've been flat on my back for a week. All those who know the word of prayer, please pray for me.
I can't view the brownfloyd clip. I get some sort of template error.
Do you know what's wrong?
Thanks.
God bless,
Eggs
I THINK B3WANNABE WAS UPDATING HIS SITE...I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THE CLIP NOW...
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Indeed. That would've been shown at one point. It's all good now. Sorry for the inconvienence.
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oh yeah and breyes777 to answer your question you can do whatever you want as long as it sounds good, but really becuase of the fact that the 2 in any key is a minor chord if i'm not mistaken in the progression 2-5-1 the 2 will be a minor chord and that's just trying to keep it basic but you can technically play any two chord in the key your playing in,say your in C the 2 chord would be D you can play Dm or you can play any chord associated with D it depends on what kind of sound your looking for and as long as it sounds goodyour good to go, am i right people or have i let my new found freedom get the best of me?
IM SORRY ! I HAD YOU CONFUSED WITH OTHER GUY!, JUST FORGET THOSE PM'S......IT WAS SOMEONE ELSE ASKING FOR SOMTHING.............LOL YOU COOL !.......
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First of all I want to thank you for your replies. They have been a blessing to me. (Thanks Gieres!) I am a MOM who specializes in song writing but my playing needs some to catch up with what I hear in my head.
One follow up question on the chords you outline: You mention that with the progressions provided, you can play most worship songs, can you give me an example of a song using those same progressions?
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First of all I want to thank you for your replies. They have been a blessing to me. (Thanks Gieres!) I am a MOM who specializes in song writing but my playing needs some to catch up with what I hear in my head.
One follow up question on the chords you outline: You mention that with the progressions provided, you can play most worship songs, can you give me an example of a song using those same progressions?
YES! I WILL MAKE AN AUDIO CLIP FOR YA! BE BACK WITH A LINK TO AN AWESOME SITE FOR ALL MY MATERIAL!
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First of all I want to thank you for your replies. They have been a blessing to me. (Thanks Gieres!) I am a MOM who specializes in song writing but my playing needs some to catch up with what I hear in my head.
One follow up question on the chords you outline: You mention that with the progressions provided, you can play most worship songs, can you give me an example of a song using those same progressions?
YES! I WILL MAKE AN AUDIO CLIP FOR YA! BE BACK WITH A LINK TO AN AWESOME SITE FOR ALL MY MATERIAL!
http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-48-0.html
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First of all I want to thank you for your replies. They have been a blessing to me. (Thanks Gieres!) I am a MOM who specializes in song writing but my playing needs some to catch up with what I hear in my head.
One follow up question on the chords you outline: You mention that with the progressions provided, you can play most worship songs, can you give me an example of a song using those same progressions?
YES! I WILL MAKE AN AUDIO CLIP FOR YA! BE BACK WITH A LINK TO AN AWESOME SITE FOR ALL MY MATERIAL!
Gieres, once again you have been a blessing to me. The MP3 example was great! I appreciate your help. May God continue to bless you for your unselfish efforts to help those in need.
What program do you use to record and create your MP3 files. I would like to send you an example of me using those chords.
[url]http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-48-0.html[/url]
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First of all I want to thank you for your replies. They have been a blessing to me. (Thanks Gieres!) I am a MOM who specializes in song writing but my playing needs some to catch up with what I hear in my head.
One follow up question on the chords you outline: You mention that with the progressions provided, you can play most worship songs, can you give me an example of a song using those same progressions?
YES! I WILL MAKE AN AUDIO CLIP FOR YA! BE BACK WITH A LINK TO AN AWESOME SITE FOR ALL MY MATERIAL!
Gieres, once again you have been a blessing to me. The MP3 example was great! I appreciate your help. May God continue to bless you for your unselfish efforts to help those in need.
What program do you use to record and create your MP3 files. I would like to send you an example of me using those chords.
[url]http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-48-0.html[/url]
i use sonar for those audio clips! and i use reasons for most of my songs and convert them to mp3 through dbpower amp! or i export and convert from reasons!
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Hey Eman
Do you have chords to "Bow Down and Worship Him" and "Let it Rain"
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Hey Eman
Do you have chords to "Bow Down and Worship Him" and "Let it Rain"
Hey Gideon, welcome to LGM man. :)
Here are the chords to Let It Rain:
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,23551.0.html (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,23551.0.html)
Here are chords to Bow Down & Worship Him:
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,23627.0.html (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,23627.0.html)
I hope you're having fun in your playing.. ;)