The healthcare issue is the only issue where Obama really isn't performing as well as hoped.
That doesn't NEARLY make up this huge drop though.
The real problem is that Obama inherited a war and a recession, neither of which he can be expected to fix in 8 months.
The National Debt Clock ([url]http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/[/url])
Some people feel that Obama's agenda will do nothing but pile on more debt and have a host of negative long-term consequences.
Bah. Those things wax and wane anyway. It's expected.
I agree. And even on the healthcare issue, I think he's doing as well as can be expected. :-\ He's got major issues to tend to, and he's trying to juggle them all... I think he's doing pretty well, honestly (especially with communication and keeping us in the loop). Healthcare is a tough one because he's pretty much caught between a rock and a hard place. There's no way everyone's gonna be happy with this one, and there's SOOOO MUCH misinformation out there. It's just crazy.
Yes, he did inherit a mess but what if the contributions of Obama WAS, even unintentionally, aiding in driving us further into a dark hole to where we or any other generations after us would never be able to get out of. Would ANY of you be able to admit that he is in error? Would any of you be able to call a spade a spade?
Well, just in this thread I said Obama isn't doing a good job in getting the healthcare bill passed. :-\
Yes, he did inherit a mess but what if the contributions of Obama WAS, even unintentionally, aiding in driving us further into a dark hole to where we or any other generations after us would never be able to get out of. Would ANY of you be able to admit that he is in error? Would any of you be able to call a spade a spade?
Getting bills passed is not a sign of doing a good job. Even if he got it passed overnight, it can still be the wrong thing to do to the nation. Bush got Congress to passed the Patriot Act. Good job? Sure, if you want to live in a police state...
Fingers, you could turn around and ask yur same question of the Obama-haters. What if his policies DO help the country and things get better. Would ANY of you be able to admit that he's a good President? Or would the same old tire political game of being the "loyal opposition" continue?
I, myself, am an avid supporter of Obama, and have criticized him on several fronts (his foreclosure rescue plan has thus far been a major FAILURE, IMO, and he has thus far failed to take control of the health care message from the right-wing loons that have been spreading lies and misinformation, and using this debate to launch vicious attacks that have NOTHING to do with health care). Heck, had they polled me recently, I probably would be one of the Democrats who currently DISAPPROVED. That does not mean I don't still support him overall.
I DO NOT, however, like this ultra-partisan, "the sun never shines during a Democratic administration" approach that many of his critics on the right have been taking since even BEFORE he took office. Mind you this criticizm is coming from people who GOT US INTO THIS MESS! He's only been in office 7 1/2 months. In other words, I'll readily criticize him when I don't agree with him, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus after 7 months just because people who would have never supported him anyway want me to. Fingers, you could turn around and ask that same question of the Obama-haters. What if his policies DO help the country and things get better. Would ANY of you be able to admit that he's a good President? Or would the same old tired political game of being the "loyal opposition" continue? Neo-conservatives by nature are not intellectually honest.
Now let me first say I was not a supporter of Barack Obama before he was elected and I am still not a supporter of his policies.
I am a conservative republican, I listen to and agree with much of what Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say(I can feel the opposition rising already lol). As a conservative I do feel that Obama's agenda reeks of socialism. Take a step back and look. The government took over the banks, the car companies and now is attempting to take over health care. Hmm....the government running private enterprises.....THAT'S SOCIALISM!! I'm not going to argue whether or not it was necessary for him to do so because at this point it's irrelevant.
As for fixing the economy I do think it was unfair for people to expect him to turn it around instantly. However, he came in talking big as though this stimulus would provide a quick jolt, and it hasn't, so now he is reaping the consequences.
Lastly, I am sick and tired of people still blaming Bush for everything. Fine he was the worst president ever, he nearly single handedly destroyed the world and its economy and everything in it(yes sarcasm). We know already. At some point Obama is going to have to shoulder responsibility.
I listen to and agree with much of what Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say
As for fixing the economy I do think it was unfair for people to expect him to turn it around instantly. However, he came in talking big as though this stimulus would provide a quick jolt, and it hasn't, so now he is reaping the consequences.
Lastly, I am sick and tired of people still blaming Bush for everything. Fine he was the worst president ever, he nearly single handedly destroyed the world and its economy and everything in it(yes sarcasm). We know already. At some point Obama is going to have to shoulder responsibility.
As a conservative I do feel that Obama's agenda reeks of socialism.
Where to begin?
1) "The government took over the banks, the car companies and now is attempting to take over health care."
We haven't. Maybe you got this from ya boys Rush Limbaugh & Sean Hannity, but we didn't "Take over". The CEO's of major Car companies came to congress for money. They were failing. We could NOT let the car industry crumble. We didn't say "Hey we're TAKING this company!". It was either provide oversight (which we have every RIGHT to do, seeing as we gave them so much money), or watch them fall, and deal a devastating blow to our economy.
Ok, fine the government didn't take over, however a government official is still overseeing the car companies meaning the ones who took the money are now subject to whatever regulations our government decides to impose on them. You sure that's not socialism?
As for Banks, we haven't "Taken over" the banks. We are overseeing the banks. It's a lack of oversight and accountability in the private sector that helped get our economy into this mess. You deride these policies as "socialism", then say:
Once again same deal as with the car companies. Also, whenever the private sector fails the government is supposed to bail them out? If that's the case then they should bail out my dad's business if he happens to mess up right? Where does it stop.
"I'm not going to argue whether or not it was necessary for him to do so because at this point it's irrelevant."
whut?
I was saying I'm not going to argue whether or not the bailouts were necessary as it was irrelevant to the case I was making about socialism.
2) "He came in talking big as though this stimulus would provide a quick jolt, and it hasn't"
?/?
My only explanation for this comment is that you don't really follow the market.
Watch the Markets for yourself. 6 months ago the Dow Jones was at 8,000. Now the markets are over 9,000. That's HUGE. The stimulus has clearly worked. Only this week have the markets stalled a bit, but we're definitely trending upwards.
Lol, you don't follow unemployment. Who cares if the markets are increasing if the unemployment rate is not dropping. The point of the stimulus was not to raise the markets but to provide jobs. There are still no jobs.
3) "I am sick and tired of people still blaming Bush for everything....at some point Obama is going to have to shoulder responsibility."
Barack should NOT should responsibility for things that occurred under the Bush Administration. I will blame Barack for his own failings.
I agree with you, however once you become president these problems, no matter who caused them, become your problems and if you say you're going to fix them then you shift the onus onto you.
4) "I listen to and agree with much of what Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say..."
This explains your entire post...misinformation and all. :-\
This statement alone basically renders you totally free of ALL objectivity, intellectual honesty and seriousness.
You'll have to explain why other than the fact that you're biased against their opinions
First of all, he NEVER said that the stimulus was going to be a "quick fix." In fact, it is Obama himself who has said time and time again that it was going to take a while for things to turn around. That being said, it would do you well to follow the links on previous posts and actually read them, so that you can get some actual knowledge for yourself and not just parrot what Rush and Sean say. So I'll do the honors and post this link AGAIN regarding the stimulus.
[url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125185379218478087.html[/url] ([url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125185379218478087.html[/url])
And again I stress, this is from the WALL STREET JOURNAL, hardly a "liberal rag."
Is this article supposed to prove your idea that the stimulus package has indeed worked? Read the ENTIRE article, one guy says that it was not as effective as people claimed or will claim. Another says that the package caused a burst that exaggerated the pace of growth.
You may be "sick and tired" of it, but get used to it. Bush and his cronies had EIGHT YEARS to screw things up, so don't for one second think that in just 7 MONTHS we are going to forget about his policies and actions, of which we are STILL CURRENTLY feeling the effects.
I do wish that you right-wingers would learn the proper definition and use of the word "socialism" instead of just throwing the term around to attack Democrats. We live in a capitalistic country, but it is a MIXED economy. We have "socialized" fire departments, police departments, education departments, postal services, etc., etc. If your neighbor's house is on fire you'd better darn well hope they can use the same services you use, because while you're sitting pretty bragging about your "private" fire insurance and ranting against "socialism", your neighbor's house fire will spread to YOUR HOUSE.\
It sounds like you just admitted that what Obama has done is indeed socialist and you're justifying it by naming other socialized areas of our economy. Because the government runs something doesn't mean it's run well either. Public schools are weak and the postal service is struggling.
BTW, the bailouts were started under BUSH! The larget deficit increase in history happened under BUSH! We were attacked on American soil under BUSH! The largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich happened under BUSH! Mind you the Republicans had control of Congress from 2000-2006. If I'm sick and tired of anything, it's conservatives trying to shift blame on to a President who has been in office ALL OF 7 MONTHS, while trying to totally ignore the fact that most of them didn't say "BOO" when Bush was running this country into the ground. I HATE hypocricy!
And I was against Bush's bailouts! Bush was not a good president do not ever think of me as a Bush supporter. BUT, no matter how badly the guy before messed up, whatever problems there are become the current presidents problems. Bush is gone we're not looking to him to fix the problems, we're looking for Mr. Obama to bail us out. What good does it do the American people to constantly hear what the guy before did to mess things up? We know things are bad! Now fix it! If you can't then why are you president?
I want to hear some specific examples of how they "misinform"
Are you serious?
Watch this video:
[url]http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sean-hannity-claims-that-obama-calls-us-a-muslim-nation/[/url] ([url]http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sean-hannity-claims-that-obama-calls-us-a-muslim-nation/[/url])
I was going to post a longer response, but it doesn't make sense.
If you listen to Hannity, who has cropped Obama's quotes (taken them out of context) COUNTLESS times.....then what's the use?
If you can still listen to Limbaugh after he played a skit that called Obama "Barack the Magic Negro".....
:(
Ok he definitely twisted that, but can you honestly tell me Obama, according to that clip, did not imply we are a muslim nation? I'd have to see that entire interview because the way it was shown, Obama spouting off those statistics was definitely an implication.
And, that's my thing. That 'skit' was racial. PERIOD. Anyone trying to claim anything different is a racist. PERIOD.
And, anyone who can listen to anyone who sanctions such a 'skit' is a.........(well, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck......). :-\
And, I've got 5 bucks says GE says NOTHING about your post, Incog. ::) :-\
And, if they're the same skin color as the object of the 'skit' then they're a particular relative named Tom. :-\
Believe what you want. ;)
And, that's my thing. That 'skit' was racial. PERIOD. Anyone trying to claim anything different is a racist. PERIOD.
And, anyone who can listen to anyone who sanctions such a 'skit' is a.........(well, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck......). :-\
And, I've got 5 bucks says GE says NOTHING about your post, Incog. ::) :-\
And, if they're the same skin color as the object of the 'skit' then they're a particular relative named Tom. :-\
Ha I love how you don't respond with any other kind of fact or rebuttal but a winking smiley.
Ok he definitely twisted that....
Absolutely. There are strong racial undertones on both their programs, but if asked listeners will always play dumb.
"THAT WASN'T RACIST!"
Of course it was. You know it was. But it's not politically correct to be a racist, so you hide behind implications and innuendo.
but...what if I don't see it as racial....
and for the record neither of you two addressed the other rebuttals I made to your earlier posts. My responses are in green.
"Barack the Magic Negro" isn't racist? ?/?
I iz not takin teh bait. :)
"Barack the Magic Negro" isn't racist? ?/?
Exactly.
Notice how he deftly dodged every mention of the "Barack the Magic Negro" skit.
:D
What do you want me to say about it, I heard it. It didn't offend me. What else can I say?
The bait? lol see this is what bugs me about liberals. They want to start stuff and bash and call everybody hateful and racist but when it comes down to simply responding with facts they fail every time. It's been fun gentlemen. I'm off to practice keyboard now.
What do you want me to say about it, I heard it. It didn't offend me. What else can I say?
Notice how he deftly dodged every mention of the "Barack the Magic Negro" skit.
:D
That, my friend, is the problem.
Yea, kinda like this guy:([url]http://www.kristanhiggins.com/neo.jpg[/url])
Yea, kinda like this guy:([url]http://www.kristanhiggins.com/neo.jpg[/url])
You mean, the way you've done in this thread.
You didn't bother to answer his DIRECT question.
How is 'Barack, the Magic Negro' in ANY way NOT racist?
Hey I'm trying to find the entire lyrics so I get break it down line for line but I can only find bits and pieces.
The song is supposed to be from the perspective of Al Sharpton who had(has?) a vendetta against Obama because Obama was successful where he failed on more than one occasion. It's political satire and parody.
a. You STILL didn't answer the question.
b. Just because it's satire or parody doesn't mean it ISN'T racist.
c. Are you REALLY trying to say that JUST from the title ALONE, the 'parody/satire' ISN'T racist? ?/? :-\
I don't get what makes it racist. I don't know what else to say.
That, my friend, is the problem.
You don't get it. If the song was about some random white guy singing this then yes it would be extremely racist, but the song is about Al Sharpton. I don't know how to make it any clearer and I don't get what makes it racist. I'm honestly trying to understand and answer but I don't know what else to say.
Barack the Magic Negro Lyrics
SHANKLIN (impersonation Al Sharpton):
Yeah, the guy from the L.A. paper
Not sure who he's talking about here
Said he makes guilty whites feel good
That's Sharpton saying some white people only voted for him because of his skin color
They?ll vote for him, and not for me
?Cause he?s not from the hood.
Sharpton upset because they voted for Barack but didn't vote for him because he's seen as less black
See, real black men, like Snoop Dog,
Or me, or Farrakhan
Have talked the talk, and walked the walk.
Not come in late and won!
Sharpton upset because Barack pretty much came up out of the blue and succeeded whereas Sharpton has been on the scene for years and never had as much success
Refrain:
Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
Sharpton referring to Obama as "the Magic Negro" because Obama did what no other black leader could. Became president
The L.A. Times, they called him that
?Cause he?s black, but not authentically.
Since Barack is mixed and light skinned some say he's not "authentically black" and we all know that light skinned people are seen as less threatening to some of those who are not black
(repeat Refrain)
Some say Barack?s "articulate"
And bright and new and "clean"
The media sure loves this guy,
A white interloper?s dream!
Again another reference to the idea that he's not really "black"
But, when you vote for president,
Watch out, and don?t be fooled!
Don?t vote the Magic Negro in
?Cause... (music stops, Sharpton rants, music returns)
Sharpton again not wanting anybody to vote for Barack and if you recall during the campaign Sharpton was caught making derogatory remarks about Obama and clearly disliked him
[url]http://www.nypost.com/seven/03122007/news/columnists/jealous_rev__al_blasts_barack_columnists_fredric_u__dicker.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.nypost.com/seven/03122007/news/columnists/jealous_rev__al_blasts_barack_columnists_fredric_u__dicker.htm[/url])
Alright now you two explain to me how this IS racist.
It's crystal clear that using an Al Sharpton impersonator was nothing more than a cover.
This is pointless.
Gospelengineer, continue listening to ya boys Limbaugh and Hannity.
Just look up the term "Stockholm Syndrome", and it will explain a lot of the mentality behind some of these particular posts. BTW, GospelEngineer, I love the way you TOTALLY IGNORED my earlier post responding to you with rebuttal arguments.
It's crystal clear that using an Al Sharpton impersonator was nothing more than a cover.
and you failed to tell me how it IS racist.....liberals ::)
Oh no, he gave you a quick reply......it was only one, mind you.
R.I.F. Conservatives. ::)
Loopy please tell me who is holding me captive?
and you failed to tell me how it IS racist.....liberals ::)
Ok I guess I must have missed it. Gotta go look again.
Why would ultra-conservatives need to read when they have crazies like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rish Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, and all the talk radio loonies to read for them? That's why they're not too proficient when it comes to reading and gathering facts for themselves. ::)
You are being held captive by your own bias and subjectivity. In fact, it seems that right now you're being held captive by the right-wing lunatic fringe. You actually think they're your friends. If I'm wrong I haven't een any evidence to the contrary yet. Look, it's one thing for you to disagree with the current President's POLICIES. THAT in and of itself does not make you ignorant.
We are all entitled to our opinions. But when you start doing nothing but parroting tired right-wing talking points that we've heard on FOX News and talk radio constantly (like throwing around the word "socialism") without regard for objective facts, then you go on to DISMISS the notion of how a "parody" entitled "Barack the magic NEGRO" concerning the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES can be racist, that sounds pretty Stockholm-ish to me.
BTW, since the education system EVERYWHERE, NATIONALLY is bad and the post office is inefficient, I supposed you're never going to use ANY of those services again as a way to boycott "socialism." ::)
How about the "lyrics"
I'm still waiting for you three to make a point.
Show me line for line how it's racist.
No you aren't. You're simply playing dumb.
Example:
([url]http://i33.tinypic.com/s3osid.gif[/url])
Here we are again still not saying anything I'm doing my best to respond to all of your questions and yet you can't do the same. Don't ever try to be a lawyer.
y so serious?
Just as long as nobody throws a folding chair...
They posted the lyrics. There really isn't anything else that needs to be said. Even the title itself is pretty self-explanatory. The song tries to insult EVERYONE, including white people who voted for Obama. It's disgusting, and yes, it is RACIST, Period.
My own bias, no I'm open I'm still waiting for you three to make a point. First you didn't respond to any of the things I posted in green. Then you proceed to attack me personally by calling me an uncle tom, comparing me to carlton and then saying I'm held captive by the right wing lunatic fringe. For a christian forum that seems pretty low.
There are different forms of socialism. [url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism[/url] ([url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism[/url]) scroll down to the last definition of socialism. Is that not where we are and where we are headed?
Parroting? I mentioned one thing, ONE thing they talk about and that's socialism. I have not quoted anything else either Rush or Hannity has said so don't try to dismiss me as though all I do is spout every line I've ever heard them say on their programs.
I'm not dismissing that the parody is racist I'm still waiting on an explanation of what makes it racist other than the fact it was created by a white man and has the word negro in the title.
And as I recall many many people have called our former president Bush dumb, stupid, and idiot. They've done the same with Sarah Palin. We have black celebrities accusing our president of being racist(Kanye West). Is that not in the same vein as the song? Calling names has nothing to do with political beliefs but somehow that was ignored when a white republican was in office.
Not all socialism is bad. The government should run or oversee certain sectors. However I don't feel like healthcare, the car companies or the banks should be ones that they do run. Nowhere in my post did I say that the school system is bad EVERYWHERE but I do believe that it has more bad spots than good. No, I don't have any facts to back that up this is from personal experience. If I have it my way my kids will never go to a public school.
With the post office again I repeat I do believe the government should run or oversee certain sectors. My point is that before we rush into allowing the government to run something as large and important as healthcare let's take a look at the areas they already run. The school system, weak as a whole, not necessarily in EVERY are but overall. The post office, losing money, constantly raising prices, shutting down branches, hmm....do we really want this same government to regulate our healthcare?
Well let me ask you this: If more government intervention was to make certain things such as healthcare and other areas in the private sector equally distributed or fair would you then be open to a little more government intervention?
I feel like one of the reasons why we have social stratification and economic inequality is because of the capitalistic system in this country which basically allows for competition without looking at fairness. I'm not what you call a heavy advoate for more government control but I feel like somebody has to get more of our systems fair and equal.