LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: davidenoch on October 18, 2009, 02:50:20 PM
-
Hey....As a keyboardist(beginner, intermidiant or advanced) how does this post make you feel?...I definitely aplogize if this is a repost
Learn how to play "Souled Out" Correctly from Nate McNair the original composer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0wqJvKPfU&feature=related#ws)
-
Idk but the attitude behind the video to me is too harsh and hateful. So what if someone is not playing the song exactly like the original? Does it matter as long as the song is being played to the best of THEIR ability and someone is being blessed through the song.
-
No comment because its that "standard" church/ gospel musician attitude.
-
Whatever! :o
-
Wow.
1. the song is wack (imo) I dont see whats so great about it..... :-\
2. He has the right idea by taking the time to teach the song the right way, but the attitude was wrong. Its sad that gospel musicians act in such a way.
-
Well, I'm not a keyboard player and I don't play one on TV ;), but it seems to me like he's kind of caught between trying to be helpful and being somewhat proud of the fact that so many people are trying to play his material on YouTube.
Sure, he's not the most humble cat, but how many successful studio musicians are? I tend to look at things as "glass half-full" and my glass half-full view on this is that dude is simply trying to help. After all, he could've said "Y'all playing it wrong" then played it and left it alone. Instead, he showed how to finger the chords where people are going astray and tried to explain why he did it the way he did it. Now, it does come across as though he's saying that this is the ONLY way to play it. Well, maybe....maybe not.
-
You know, from the composer's standpoint I can understand.
After having a conversation with the facilitator of our music workshop (who's about to put out his first CD), I get what Nate is saying.
Pastor Mobley (the facilitator) was a bit more curt with us, this year, than last year. I have no problem with curtness as long as there's love behind it (and there was).
Anyway, I mentioned this to him just before our concert; BUT, I also understood. When one is hearing their music misplayed (for whatever reason), it's like that sound of nails on a chalkboard. As a composer, you want folks to get your music, on which you worked tirelessly to perfect, correct.
Now, how Nate went about it, to me, can be taken with a grain of salt. BTJM.
-
You know, from the composer's standpoint I can understand.
. When one is hearing their music misplayed (for whatever reason), it's like that sound of nails on a chalkboard. As a composer, you want folks to get your music, on which you worked tirelessly to perfect, correct.
. Now, it does come across as though he's saying that this is the ONLY way to play it. Well, maybe....maybe not.
Interesting. I would expect that from a classical musician or composer, but not a gospel musician. I honestly dont know any gospel musician who plays the song exactly as the recording, unless they are in concert with the artist who recorded it.
Our music is not an exact science
-
I mean I love it. Not because he just told off or so called treated alot of people, but because He took out the time to show exactly what he played and how he did it. I been with musician like that before. I realize that the right way is the best way. Cause believe me when you playing for a major artist they're going to want the right way, and they will not be happy with anyway. So I am glad he post that video up.
-
Souled out is definitely a listeners song. Ask most musicians and they tell you it's an Ok song but ask any non musician and they love it. Personally this song is on a list along with "Never would have made it" of songs I can't stand hearing because i've heard them so many times. Picking out bass notes is much easier and I know a lot of times the song is so cluttered you'll have to follow the bass note and play a chord that sounds correct.
I think there is a difference from playing a song different because you wan't to than playing a song different because you don't know it. I am guilty of both but i try to make it a priority to learn a song as it is written. I'm not a active keyboardist but I would imagine it would be hard picking out note for note chords that are mixed with vocals and an entire band.
My theory is if you want to hear the CD then play the CD as a covering musician my job is to give a song a similar feel so that the audience and choir can easily follow, not to reproduce what I've heard on a CD note for note. Imagine how boring it would be if all you had to look forward to is reproducing tracks, but there are some choir directors who want that. If that was the case then choirs could just sing to tracks.
As far as the attitude can't really tell and I've never been in his shoes so can't really judge. But I've seen much worst from people with no where near as much notoriety.
-
Souled out is definitely a listeners song. Ask most musicians and they tell you it's an Ok song but ask any non musician and they love it. Personally this song is on a list along with "Never would have made it" of songs I can't stand hearing because i've heard them so many times. Picking out bass notes is much easier and I know a lot of times the song is so cluttered you'll have to follow the bass note and play a chord that sounds correct.
I think there is a difference from playing a song different because you wan't to than playing a song different because you don't know it. I am guilty of both but i try to make it a priority to learn a song as it is written. I'm not a active keyboardist but I would imagine it would be hard picking out note for note chords that are mixed with vocals and an entire band.
My theory is if you want to hear the CD then play the CD as a covering musician my job is to give a song a similar feel so that the audience and choir can easily follow, not to reproduce what I've heard on a CD note for note. Imagine how boring it would be if all you had to look forward to is reproducing tracks, but there are some choir directors who want that. If that was the case then choirs could just sing to tracks.
As far as the attitude can't really tell and I've never been in his shoes so can't really judge. But I've seen much worst from people with no where near as much notoriety.
Negative. Playing the song, as recorded, has nothing to do with using tracks (which choirs do, btw).
Additionally, using a musician affords a choir the opportunity to sing the song as long as they want or eliminate a part of a song should they so choose.
As a covering musician, your job is to give the choir director what they ask.
-
Interesting. I would expect that from a classical musician or composer, but not a gospel musician. I honestly dont know any gospel musician who plays the song exactly as the recording, unless they are in concert with the artist who recorded it.
Our music is not an exact science
Or, are the artist that recorded it? :-\
-
Hey....As a keyboardist(beginner, intermidiant or advanced) how does this post make you feel?...I definitely aplogize if this is a repost
Learn how to play "Souled Out" Correctly from Nate McNair the original composer ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0wqJvKPfU&feature=related#ws[/url])
I appreciate him showing how the song was originally composed as opposed to just saying its being done wrong.
-
Negative. Playing the song, as recorded, has nothing to do with using tracks (which choirs do, btw).
Additionally, using a musician affords a choir the opportunity to sing the song as long as they want or eliminate a part of a song should they so choose.
As a covering musician, your job is to give the choir director what they ask.
I agree with the part in bold, however their is hardware/software available that allows the user the capabilities of looping, repeating, and skipping sections of the song. I think the advantage of having live music is more of a "authentic feel thing" as opposed it allowing to choir to be more versatile in a song.
-
I agree with the part in bold, however their is hardware/software available that allows the user the capabilities of looping, repeating, and skipping sections of the song. I think the advantage of having live music is more of a "authentic feel thing" as opposed it allowing to choir to be more versatile in a song.
a. Six, in one hand, half a dozen on the other. In other words, in my mind, we're saying the same thing.
b. I was talking about CD trax. With that said:
1. What were you thinking?
2. Where can one purchase this hardware/software?
Thanks.
-
Interesting. I would expect that from a classical musician or composer, but not a gospel musician. I honestly dont know any gospel musician who plays the song exactly as the recording, unless they are in concert with the artist who recorded it.
Our music is not an exact science
That's my whole issue!
No comment because its that "standard" church/ gospel musician attitude.
This has been an issue for a long time! What do we do to combat this attitude?
-
Interesting. I would expect that from a classical musician or composer, but not a gospel musician. I honestly dont know any gospel musician who plays the song exactly as the recording, unless they are in concert with the artist who recorded it.
Our music is not an exact science
I go to a lot of concerts and I have never seen an artist, gospel or secular, play anything exactly as it is on the recording. Personally, in my secular cover band work I rarely play the same songs the EXACT same way twice. The differences may be minor and not even noticeable to the lay-person. Fact is, my memory ain't good enough to allow me to play things EXACTLY the same :D :D :D
-
a. Six, in one hand, half a dozen on the other. In other words, in my mind, we're saying the same thing.
b. I was talking about CD trax. With that said:
1. What were you thinking?
2. Where can one purchase this hardware/software?
Thanks.
Dont really want to hijak the thread more than I already have.
http://www.audiomidi.com/MPD24-MIDI-Controller-P8234.aspx
Someone with more expertise should be able to explain this to you better than I can. Overall, you can record a section of a song on each pad.
I.e. pad1= song intro; pad2= bridge1; pad3=vamp; ect.
-
This has been an issue for a long time! What do we do to combat this attitude?
Don't develop one. 8)
-
Dont really want to hijak the thread more than I already have.
[url]http://www.audiomidi.com/MPD24-MIDI-Controller-P8234.aspx[/url]
Someone with more expertise should be able to explain this to you better than I can. Overall, you can record a section of a song on each pad.
I.e. pad1= song intro; pad2= bridge1; pad3=vamp; ect.
Yea, I would definitely need a deeper explanation.
-
Man.....I'm really indifferent about this..I guess my concern goes out to all the beginner musicans that are attempting to interpret the song to only receive "12 lashes" for playing it wrong...However, i can see his side also..One of my musician mentors told me that if youre ever playing someone else song try your best to learn it in its original form......
-
This dude is sensitive about his music, LOL. If you care at all about learning it the right way, this is the guy to learn it from, since he did come up with it.
I don't really see it as arrogance per se, I see it more as a "setting the record straight" kinda thing. It was a little harsh at times, but he did play the song and teach what he played. So, arrogance or not, he went above and beyond what he could've done.
Just take it for what it's worth.
-
This dude is sensitive about his music, LOL. If you care at all about learning it the right way, this is the guy to learn it from, since he did come up with it.
I don't really see it as arrogance per se, I see it more as a "setting the record straight" kinda thing. It was a little harsh at times, but he did play the song and teach what he played. So, arrogance or not, he went above and beyond what he could've done.
Just take it for what it's worth.
Truth...
But the whole never heard it the smae way twice thing is kinda off.....when i first was transitioning from drums to organ i had a gig hittin with Dorinda Clark on drums...fill in local type of thing....keyboardists definitely had to play it note for note...but for other stuff ive seen different
-
Truth...
But the whole never heard it the smae way twice thing is kinda off.....when i first was transitioning from drums to organ i had a gig hittin with Dorinda Clark on drums...fill in local type of thing....keyboardists definitely had to play it note for note...but for other stuff ive seen different
And that's what I'm sayin'. :)
-
the dude can play......and he actually plays it better than all the other versions I've heard (its his).....its ok if people want to show off, if youre that good then its ok, hehe
-
I hope other songwriters/professional musicians follow suit... well without the arrogance.... well actually I don't mind, as long as they take the time to break down the songs, because he is correct in saying that there are a lot of musicians playing it wrong, and teaching others the wrong chords.
Now if Tye's piano player can just break down I Made It Through.... he can call me tone-deaf, pitch blind, or whatever... just show me the song!!
-
IMO, his assertion that just because it's not being played like the original, it's wrong is closed minded. I can't tell you how many times I've heard musicians and artists change songs for various reasons. Think about how many different versions of Total Praise we've heard over the years. Just because they aren't done like the original, don't mean they are wrong.
There's no way you're gonna tell me he plays every song exactly like the CD. Part of the joy of being a musician is being able to express yourself and to add your flavor to the song (as long as you are staying true to the intent of the artist you are working with). I just say to each his own.
-
Hey....As a keyboardist(beginner, intermidiant or advanced) how does this post make you feel?
it makes me feel inadequate and lacking :-[
sikenaw...i didn't have a problem with it, wish more pros would take the time to do vids like this.
-
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Dude get over yourself!!lol I want people to put their own twist on anything i do!!
This video is ALL about the attitude lol Get ya ego in check bruh! Love yallz!
-
I've been around musicians like this too and it always made me feel inferior but you know at some point every good musician will have to deal with a guy like this. It's how you deal with it that will determine if you ever get where you're trying to go as a musician. I agree with Sjon's first post he could have used a better attitude but oh well.
-
Well, I guess the guy was angry at fact that people aren't taking the time to make his work what he intended it to be--but I understand why the people don't play it like the original & if it sounds better it's fine.
The noble thing about him is he's not just shouting, but he is correcting the mistakes he sees.
I'm sure many cats here have a very scary side someone junior to them in their music team always experiences because the cat gets annoyed at every note mis-hit etc :-\?? (is that you?) :D
Back at home we had a recording artist: He would play any recorded song as is or better most of the time, but he'd always stress to the choir that a song has to be performed AT THE SAME LEVEL OF EXCELLENCE IF NOT BETTER.
He would willingly show us his songs, Imagine Me & tons other songs 8)
I can only pick up someone's attitude once I've seen some patterns- so let's thank the cat for unpacking the chord to others 8)
-
If ya'll met nate in person i dont think his attitude would be in question, he is actually a very nice.
he said some folks are teaching the song wrong and if he wants to teach it right say thank you if you wanna learn it and if not then why even search for it......
as a keyboardist/organist this should make feel like if i cant reproduce this song note for note then i need to practice.
-
If ya'll met nate in person i dont think his attitude would be in question, he is actually a very nice.
he said some folks are teaching the song wrong and if he wants to teach it right say thank you if you wanna learn it and if not then why even search for it......
as a keyboardist/organist this should make feel like if i cant reproduce this song note for note then i need to practice.
But I thought music, particuarly in the church setting, was about being creative, not about having to basically "reproduce" someone else's music.
-
But I thought music, particuarly in the church setting, was about being creative, not about having to basically "reproduce" someone else's music.
then dont play this song, write and produce your own songs by being creative...........if you want make some changes to any song cool but how can you do that without knowing the basics of its core form?
-
The art of note for note reproduction of songs in the church really isn't practical because.....
1. Skill level - A lot of times, people playing on these CDs are professionals, so a non-professional isn't going to be at the same level.
2. The Band - Songs on a CD have a full band. So reproducing the song with just an Organist or Pianist and drumming isn't really practical.
The guy makes a good point, but just comes off so arrogant.
-
The art of note for note reproduction of songs in the church really isn't practical because.....
1. Skill level - A lot of times, people playing on these CDs are professionals, so a non-professional isn't going to be at the same level.
2. The Band - Songs on a CD have a full band. So reproducing the song with just an Organist or Pianist and drumming isn't really practical.
The guy makes a good point, but just comes off so arrogant.
That's exactly my point!
-
The art of note for note reproduction of songs in the church really isn't practical because.....
1. Skill level - A lot of times, people playing on these CDs are professionals, so a non-professional isn't going to be at the same level.
2. The Band - Songs on a CD have a full band. So reproducing the song with just an Organist or Pianist and drumming isn't really practical.
The guy makes a good point, but just comes off so arrogant.
He wasn't talking about 'in church' he was talking about folks who SWEAR they have the chords to such and such a song, but are playing the song wrong.
-
He wasn't talking about 'in church' he was talking about folks who SWEAR they have the chords to such and such a song, but are playing the song wrong.
Exactly- Now lets end it here!
In which case he has every right to be "fuming" because you don't have it until it sounds like it ought to!
I'm sure he doesn't mind me trying it at church & getting a few chords/ notes wrong, but if I'm performing or jamming with the guys & tell them I have it under my hands- I really don't until I can mimic it.
ps:
Remember malthumb's comments though ;)
-
He wasn't talking about 'in church' he was talking about folks who SWEAR they have the chords to such and such a song, but are playing the song wrong.
I went back an listen to the video again and to me, he was talking in general. I've never (but it could be) seen someone on youtube that this is exactly how it is played.
I still think his comments are off. If some brought the sheet music to the song, would it be exactly like he played it? When people buy fake books/real books like in jazz, you will never see the composer jumping up and down saying this isn't how its played.
But you do see people criticizing folks all the time on youtube for just trying to help people out.
-
I went back an listen to the video again and to me, he was talking in general. I've never (but it could be) seen someone on youtube that this is exactly how it is played.
I still think his comments are off. If some brought the sheet music to the song, would it be exactly like he played it? When people buy fake books/real books like in jazz, you will never see the composer jumping up and down saying this isn't how its played.
But you do see people criticizing folks all the time on youtube for just trying to help people out.
No the sheet music don't have it note for note because I purchase the Souled Out Songbook. Some of those licks he was doing was covered up in the cd because u had alot of instruments playing,The brass was really dominant in this song.If it was just piano playing then yea I can say u should be able to get lick for lick.
-
Sorry, I didn't see any arrogance at all. I saw a brother who knows how it goes, taking the time to show others the way it was originally supposed to be played.
All too often, especially in gospel situations, we flub over changes either because of our skill levels or inability to hear what's going on in a track (sometimes its just not clear) or the charts aren't accurate. I have played with many musicians who play their own chords all of the time, and I tease them all the time to, "Girl, there you go playing them Clarissa chords again".
Most of the time they play the "wrong" chords, not because of any attempt to be "creative" but because that is what they hear and that is what their skill levels allow. the sam applies to me. I can anly play what I can hear. So until my hearing gets better or teh original player shows me what's up, I'll probably play Keith basslines most of the time. But I'm trying to do better.
-
I went back an listen to the video again and to me, he was talking in general. I've never (but it could be) seen someone on youtube that this is exactly how it is played.
I still think his comments are off. If some brought the sheet music to the song, would it be exactly like he played it? When people buy fake books/real books like in jazz, you will never see the composer jumping up and down saying this isn't how its played.
But you do see people criticizing folks all the time on youtube for just trying to help people out.
i think it came down to as he stated that there are people teaching songs and they are setting up people for failure
-
i think it came down to as he stated that there are people teaching songs and they are setting up people for failure
failure how?
-
i think it came down to as he stated that there are people teaching songs and they are setting up people for failure
I see what you are saying, but I seriously doubt that when they played the song on Sunday, people in the church were calling them failures.
The one thing people forget or don't seem to realize is we have 'Professionals' and we have everyone else (amateurs, hobbyist, ect..). The church is filled with everyone elses but they try to call themselves 'Pros'.
If you are you will (or should be) taking a certain path, while everyone else will take a different one.
-
I can see why he's doing this.
When learning stuff by ear in gospel music you have to train yourself to be very tight and strict or you will end up flopping all over the place.
Now everybody is trippin because its Souled Out and its a relatively easy song, so its very possible to get up and not really learn the song yet get up at a concert whatever and smash it with ya own interpretation
BUT what happens when you take that slacking method to some of James Hall's stuff or any really intermediate-difficult gospel song...YOU FAIL miserably and no one recognizes what you're playing
-
failure how?
by playing songs wrong
-
As a beginner, I didn't mind at all. The first time I saw this on You Tube, I laughed myself silly. I think he was proud that so many people were interested in his song, but when they said they were teaching the song, he wanted to set the record straight. Since he wrote it, I have no problem with that. Now, I would be a little embarrassed if I was someone trying to be helpful and put out a YouTube video teaching a different way to play song. I mean, he did take the time to teach his song. How many artists really take the time to do that? If anything, you may have to later pull your teaching video because someone isn't getting their rightful cut. And, there are people SELLING lessons on how to play his song. He took the time to do it for free. I can't help but appreciate him. May God Bless Him. Now, as I said...if I thought I was the "cat's meow" and had come up with my own way of playing it...I may have a different feeling.