LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Drummers => Topic started by: sugabear on January 18, 2010, 10:12:57 AM
-
This isn't a topic you hear discussed in the church a lot. But, how would you minister to someone that has had a sex change (had the operation) and later on down the line decides that they want to be saved?
-
This isn't a topic you hear discussed in the church a lot. But, how would you minister to someone that has had a sex change (had the operation) and later on down the line decides that they want to be saved?
wow this is a good one, all i can think of is sins are forgiven by repentance, but then in which way do u continue to live.....???? man/woman
umma fall back and read you guys post ?/?
-
wow and i thought i had questions but this one takes the cake, literally, but seriously this is not a self ministry you may have to go to some one that is more knowledgeable in the word to help, cause this about a soul in need, so don't take this one over your head go to spiritual leader. Also while your doing that search the word for your self and see what Gods has to say.
-
wow and i thought i had questions but this one takes the cake, literally, but seriously this is not a self ministry you may have to go to some one that is more knowledgeable in the word to help, cause this about a soul in need, so don't take this one over your head go to spiritual leader. Also while your doing that search the word for your self and see what Gods has to say.
^^ What he said. Let your Pastor deal with this
-
Now my first reaction was also WOW, :o good one. But that's just our carnal thinking.
There is no sin greater than another, although is seems that way to the carnal eye. This should be handled just as anyone else wanting to repent before the Lord.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.
If they really want to enter in this narrow gate, they must be willing to offer their life as a living sacrifice which is "suppose" to be our reasonal service.
-
How about "there's neither white/black,male/female,free/bond" In the KIngdom? GAL 5(?)
-
wow and i thought i had questions but this one takes the cake, literally, but seriously this is not a self ministry you may have to go to some one that is more knowledgeable in the word to help, cause this about a soul in need, so don't take this one over your head go to spiritual leader. Also while your doing that search the word for your self and see what Gods has to say.
I'm actually not dealing with this right now, but wanted to present a hypothetical because this isn't something that's discussed in most churches.
Now my first reaction was also WOW, :o good one. But that's just our carnal thinking.
There is no sin greater than another, although is seems that way to the carnal eye. This should be handled just as anyone else wanting to repent before the Lord.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.
If they really want to enter in this narrow gate, they must be willing to offer their life as a living sacrifice which is "suppose" to be our reasonal service.
I like this response. Looking forward to some more individual responses.
-
How about loving the person and showing them Christ regardless?
-
The answer to this question is quite simple. Tell them to start living a saved life. You just pick up from where you are. Dont waste time trying to reverse or cover up what you've done in the past. Without thinking about it too hard, it would make sense to say, "having a sexual relationship with anyone is out of question." That part of the person's life is ruined. Though it is a great sacrifice, the good thing is, being in a relationship, having a wife or husband and kids, is not a prerequisite to being saved.
Even though I have an answer to this "1 in a million" scenerio, let me say personally that I dont believe for one second that a person can be gay one day and straight the next. I dont believe a person can be blind for 30 years and wake up seeing either. I compare these over drastic changes to below zero temperatures to a scorching 110 degrees, all in the time it takes you to say a prayer and the prayer be granted instantly. What are the odds? What are the odds that the human brain, emotions and sense of attraction could even process and register such changes? Its simply not possible.
-
The answer to this question is quite simple. Tell them to start living a saved life. You just pick up from where you are. Dont waste time trying to reverse or cover up what you've done in the past. Without thinking about it too hard, it would make sense to say, "having a sexual relationship with anyone is out of question." That part of the person's life is ruined. Though it is a great sacrifice, the good thing is, being in a relationship, having a wife or husband and kids, is not a prerequisite to being saved.
Even though I have an answer to this "1 in a million" scenerio, let me say personally that I dont believe for one second that a person can be gay one day and straight the next. I dont believe a person can be blind for 30 years and wake up seeing either. I compare these over drastic changes to below zero temperatures to a scorching 110 degrees, all in the time it takes you to say a prayer and the prayer be granted instantly. What are the odds? What are the odds that the human brain, emotions and sense of attraction could even process and register such changes? Its simply not possible.
Its called Faith.
-
Its called didn't happen, hasn't happened and will never happen.
-
Hmm. I mean they could obviously live their lives as they should being a Christian however when it comes to marriage and sex I'm not to sure. God obviously loves them still but he knows them as Frank not Franchesca so I'm not sure. Maybe reverse the operation?
-
Yo drums,what about with "GOD all things are possible?" I don't know about a sex change,but there's a lot of "sight" being restored in the WORD.One minute someone is blind -to the point of death even;the next minute totally resored.
This didn't stop with JESUS,it still happens today.There's a very creditable account of a man dead for 3 days being resurrected;see CFAN (CHRIST for All nations,Rheinhart Bonke) in Fla.
As far as the sex bit;why not?(in the context of biblical constraints) In TIMOTHY it talks about "the state in which you are called";if they are either male of female when they are saved;they just need to walk that out. It would take a lot of prayer and counsel IF they were to "partner up",but that's kinda an out there issue.
Get them to salvation FIRST,trust LORD to work the rest out.
-
This isn't a topic you hear discussed in the church a lot. But, how would you minister to someone that has had a sex change (had the operation) and later on down the line decides that they want to be saved?
...you present Christ to the person and ask if they want to accept Him in their life and heart. The Holy Spirit takes care of the rest. The Holy Spirit will minister to you on how to pray for the person. (soul)
The answer to this question is quite simple. Tell them to start living a saved life. You just pick up from where you are. Dont waste time trying to reverse or cover up what you've done in the past. Without thinking about it too hard, it would make sense to say, "having a sexual relationship with anyone is out of question." That part of the person's life is ruined. Though it is a great sacrifice, the good thing is, being in a relationship, having a wife or husband and kids, is not a prerequisite to being saved.
Even though I have an answer to this "1 in a million" scenerio, let me say personally that I dont believe for one second that a person can be gay one day and straight the next. I dont believe a person can be blind for 30 years and wake up seeing either. I compare these over drastic changes to below zero temperatures to a scorching 110 degrees, all in the time it takes you to say a prayer and the prayer be granted instantly. What are the odds? What are the odds that the human brain, emotions and sense of attraction could even process and register such changes? Its simply not possible.
...I agree with you 110 percent on the bold part.
...I disagree with you on the second paragraph. Here's why: We will never understand and know God's mind and way of thinking and doing things. (Isaiah 55) What ever happened to believing that God can give a blind man sight instantly or give a deaf man instant hearing/speaking abilities? God himself is the Creator and giver of life and everything else. (Exodus 4.11 speaking to Moses and dealing with his doubt/fears.) Jesus himself did these sorts of miracles and instantly the people were healed. (John 9 & Mark 7.31-37)
...here's where Jesus passes the "torch" unto the real church meaning His followerers, disciples; the people who really believe and obey His commands and show the fruit of the Spirit: John 14.12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."
...when He states "greater things than these...", he means in number and NOT better than what He's done. Too many people are using this verse the wrong way.
...so you see, yes, people can be transformed instantly. At the same time, there are those that do go through a process of restoration. I agree with you on that part. But we cannot stop having faith that God can't due these things instantly. He chooses to do what he wants when he wants. After all, he did create us; didn't he?
-
Good responses people. Keep them coming. I asked the question in hopes that it would help me as well as others if ever confronted with this situation. Our first calls as Christians is to be ministers of the Gospel bringing souls to Christ, even those that seem to be living in unsavable (sp?) conditions.
-
...as far as ministering to transgender people, homosexuals and lesbians...
...Our job is to present Christ to them and love them as an individual just as Jesus loves them. (Matthew 22.39) Does that mean we have to accept there sin? No. That's the difference. The cool thing is that Jesus states in Matthew 11.28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." Some of these people know that what they are doing is wrong and want to change. Others are so blinded by the sin that they don't want to change. That's ok too. We can't force anyone to do anything. All we can do is present Christ and His word (drop the seed) and keep it moving. The Lord takes care of adding those who are to be saved.
...so sugarbear, we just pray with them and let ourselves be used by Him. The Holy Spirit will give us the words that will impact the person. There's no need to go get the Pastor or whoever if we are truly guided by His Holy Spirit.
Mark 16
v.17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
v.18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
-
...you present Christ to the person and ask if they want to accept Him in their life and heart. The Holy Spirit takes care of the rest. The Holy Spirit will minister to you on how to pray for the person. (soul)
...I agree with you 110 percent on the bold part.
...I disagree with you on the second paragraph. Here's why: We will never understand and know God's mind and way of thinking and doing things. (Isaiah 55) What ever happened to believing that God can give a blind man sight instantly or give a deaf man instant hearing/speaking abilities? God himself is the Creator and giver of life and everything else. (Exodus 4.11 speaking to Moses and dealing with his doubt/fears.) Jesus himself did these sorts of miracles and instantly the people were healed. (John 9 & Mark 7.31-37)
...here's where Jesus passes the "torch" unto the real church meaning His followerers, disciples; the people who really believe and obey His commands and show the fruit of the Spirit: John 14.12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."
...when He states "greater things than these...", he means in number and NOT better than what He's done. Too many people are using this verse the wrong way.
...so you see, yes, people can be transformed instantly. At the same time, there are those that do go through a process of restoration. I agree with you on that part. But we cannot stop having faith that God can't due these things instantly. He chooses to do what he wants when he wants. After all, he did create us; didn't he?
So Jesus passed the torch? Anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing? Then why is it that you have to go back over 2000 years in the past just to find traces of these miracles? Gays cannot be straight. For that to happen, it would cause a genetic overload and the human body and mind system would simply crash. No human-being could survive such a transformation. Like I said before, it would be like God changing the temperature from -10 degrees to 110 degrees in an instant. We would all die from the shock! Not saying God cant change the climate that fast and spare the existance of man. I'm just saying He hasn't done it and will never do it.
The essence of "attraction" cannot, has not and will never be altered. It is beyond human or spiritual control. Any man who says, "the Lord saved me from a penis addiction" or "the Lord has retired me from the ---- Fest committee" is a bold face liar :D. I encourage each and everyone of you to interview a real gay person. Not one that is in church because they are under too much preasure to denounce whats really going on inside of them.
Biblically speaking, I still believe gays can make it to Heaven. They just have to exercise enough mind and body control to refrain from committing gay acts. Easier said than done but abstenance is proven. It can indeed be done.
-
So Jesus passed the torch? Anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing? Then why is it that you have to go back over 2000 years in the past just to find traces of these miracles? Gays cannot be straight. For that to happen, it would cause a genetic overload and the human body and mind system would simply crash. No human-being could survive such a transformation. Like I said before, it would be like God changing the temperature from -10 degrees to 110 degrees in an instant. We would all die from the shock! Not saying God cant change the climate that fast and spare the existance of man. I'm just saying He hasn't done it and will never do it.
The essence of "attraction" cannot, has not and will never be altered. It is beyond human or spiritual control. Any man who says, "the Lord saved me from a penis addiction" or "the Lord has retired me from the ---- Fest committee" is a bold face liar :D. I encourage each and everyone of you to interview a real gay person. Not one that is in church because they are under too much preasure to denounce whats really going on inside of them.
Biblically speaking, I still believe gays can make it to Heaven. They just have to exercise enough mind and body control to refrain from committing gay acts. Easier said than done but abstenance is proven. It can indeed be done.
...you know what though man? Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe. I know what the word says, has done and will continue to do in people's lives. I know what I have seen with my own eyes. I'm really not going to get into a back and forth battle with you because obviously, you're not the person that needs a Divine intervention to transform this sort lifestyle. As I've stated before, non of us will ever know what God thinks or how he works. No one. He does as he pleases. That's why the word states he is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Hebrews 13.8 )The reason why we Christians go into the word which has been out for hundreds of years is because it has been tried and put to the test. After all of these years, it still remains and it is still transforming lives. I do know this: I serve a Living God who still performs miracles on a daily basis for those who believe in Him and even those who don't. That's the thing with God and true Christianity. It all has to do with Faith. If you don't truly believe, then nothing will happen. After all, the healthy don't need to see a doctor. Right?
-
...you know what though man? Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe. I know what the word says, has done and will continue to do in people's lives. I know what I have seen with my own eyes. I'm really not going to get into a back and forth battle with you because obviously, you're not the person that needs a Divine intervention to transform this sort lifestyle. As I've stated before, non of us will ever know what God thinks or how he works. No one. He does as he pleases. That's why the word states he is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Hebrews 13.8 )The reason why we Christians go into the word which has been out for hundreds of years is because it has been tried and put to the test. After all of these years, it still remains and it is still transforming lives. I do know this: I serve a Living God who still performs miracles on a daily basis for those who believe in Him and even those who don't. That's the thing with God and true Christianity. It all has to do with Faith. If you don't truly believe, then nothing will happen. After all, the healthy don't need to see a doctor. Right?
Seems to me that you need to get off of LGM and go to the nearest Treatment Center for Autism, then go to the nearest Center for the Blind, then go to your nearest Technological Advances of War Heros Center (amputations), then come back to LGM with your instant praise reports on how miracles are still performed today. Oh wait. Wait one second. Why is there even a need for such establishments?
And please dont think that I dont notice my questions going un-answered. :) I only ask questions that people are not strong enough to truthfully answer anyway. ;) :D
-
Seems to me that you need to get off of LGM and go to the nearest Treatment Center for Autism, then go to the nearest Center for the Blind, then go to your nearest Technological Advances of War Heros Center (amputations), then come back to LGM with your instant praise reports on how miracles are still performed today. Oh wait. Wait one second. Why is there even a need for such establishments?
And please dont think that I dont notice my questions going un-answered. :) I only ask questions that people are not strong enough to truthfully answer anyway. ;) :D
...hmmm, are you considering Scientology Sheen?
-
...hmmm, are you considering Scientology Sheen?
I only consider what makes sense. Faith, no matter how people look at it, is based on odds. The odds that something can, and will happen. Most people have faith in things they have seen done before. My problem is Jesus performing miracles over 2000 years ago that have never been re-produced by so called followers up to this time. To me, a religious organization is only as good as its last claimed miracle.
As for the list above, and considering the teachings and examples Jesus set before us, I would think faith-based Christians would have put those establishments out of business by now. So why aren't they? And if they are, where are these miracles happening that you speak of?
And please let us be clear on what a miracle is. Your light bill being unexpectedly and extremely low this month is not a miracle :D (except in a mega church with predominantly poor black church members where that sort of thing is worth shouting over :D)
A miracle is a work performed or an event that defies the laws of nature. Meaning, no human by their natural abilities can take credit.
-
I only consider what makes sense. Faith, no matter how people look at it, is based on odds. The odds that something can, and will happen. Most people have faith in things they have seen done before. My problem is Jesus performing miracles over 2000 years ago that have never been re-produced by so called followers up to this time. To me, a religious organization is only as good as its last claimed miracle.
As for the list above, and considering the teachings and examples Jesus set before us, I would think faith-based Christians would have put those establishments out of business by now. So why aren't they? And if they are, where are these miracles happening that you speak of?
...ah, I was waiting for you to ask that. I know for one that my church is one of the many churches that has had many of these miracles happen. The cool thing is that we have the proof. That's right. The reports with the doctors signatures here in Orlando and all of them in awe. We had a man with full blown Aids healed. My Pastors wife had Multiple Sclerosis and she was healed totally. We had a blind child who now has restored vision. We have many more testimonies too.
...I agree with you on the establishments still existing thing. But you see Sheen, it has everything to do with Faith and Obedience. Some cases of these diseases are of God passing judgement upon individuals. Some are just things that happen in life. (War Amps.) We are called to pray believing in Him. The individual also has to be believe.
...check this out though. You know why there aren't a lot of miracles happening here in the U.S.? The reason is that people have stopped believing in God. They don't have faith. Now, God is on the way out. We've taken him out of schools and people get offended even if you say, "Merry CHRISTmas." If you don't have faith, nothing will happen. Jesus himself couldn't perform many miracles in his homeland due to the lack of faith from the people. (Matthew 13. 54-58 )
...now take people in South America, Africa, Haiti and other places. Some of these people have little to nothing and hope for everything. Thus when they hear the Gospel of JesusChrist and hear of the power of healing, restoration and spiritual freedom, they accept it and believe it and God performs miracles. It all has to do with faith.
...it all goes back to what I was stating earlier. If an individual is not sick or is sick but doesn't want to see a doctor then why is the doctor needed?
A miracle is a work performed or an event that defies the laws of nature. Meaning, no human by their natural abilities can take credit.
...so do you think a transgender or homosexual can be transformed into what God Created him or her to be in the first place?
-
...here's another thing that just came to mind Sheen,
...some of us have heard the Lord's voice and spoken back to him and yet we still don't believe him fully. We still have doubt. Take the great Moses. A man who held conversations with The Creator and yet he still had doubt and lacked faith.
Exodus 4
v.10 Moses said to the LORD, "O Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue."
v.11 The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD ?
v.12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say."
v.13 But Moses said, "O Lord, please send someone else to do it."
...God had his miracle ready to go, but because he had doubt, he didn't receive it.
-
The answer is no. I dont believe a transgender can be transformed.
So is it safe to say that you are a part of a church organization that can tap in to the power of God and heal the sick, give sight to the blind, correct autism and restore amputations? And if I'm following you correctly, the receiving of miracles have the stipulations of "faith and obedience" attached to them but you never know what God is gonna do so you pray that miracles are granted reguardless of someone having faith or being obedient?
-
Kevin,
Are you a Christian?
-
The answer is no. I dont believe a transgender can be transformed.
So is it safe to say that you are a part of a church organization that can tap in to the power of God and heal the sick, give sight to the blind, correct autism and restore amputations? And if I'm following you correctly, the receiving of miracles have the stipulations of "faith and obedience" attached to them but you never know what God is gonna do so you pray that miracles are granted reguardless of someone having faith or being obedient?
...I'm talking about being transformed spiritually. Are you meaning physically? In the case of an amputee, what's wrong with a Vet. receiving an artificial leg when he has no means of getting one? Doesn't God allow that to happen?
...as far as your other question, we're just called to pray believing in Him. That's it. God handles the rest. Again, his ways are higher than ours. He's God. If he chooses to heal the person, amen. If not, amen too. God said let there be light. Who am I to question who flipped the sun's switch.
...so Sheen, I'll ask you a few questions. Why can't God correct Autism? Why can't God free a person from homosexuality or lesbianism? Is God not healing anymore?
-
I guess they would live for Christ as a eunuch.
-
I guess they would live for Christ as a eunuch.
Hello. :)
I play guitar and piano, too. :)
-
Kevin,
Are you a Christian?
Yes sir!
...I'm talking about being transformed spiritually. Are you meaning physically? In the case of an amputee, what's wrong with a Vet. receiving an artificial leg when he has no means of getting one? Doesn't God allow that to happen?
...as far as your other question, we're just called to pray believing in Him. That's it. God handles the rest. Again, his ways are higher than ours. He's God. If he chooses to heal the person, amen. If not, amen too. God said let there be light. Who am I to question who flipped the sun's switch.
...so Sheen, I'll ask you a few questions. Why can't God correct Autism? Why can't God free a person from homosexuality or lesbianism? Is God not healing anymore?
I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism. And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it. Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus. Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.
-
I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism. And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it[/i]. Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus. Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.
So because you can't see it or haven't heard about it it can't and/or doesn't happen? Are you serious? That's a bit self-centered, don't you think?
John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said , he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad , when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whosoever sins ye remit , they are remitted unto them; and whosoever sins ye retain , they are retained . 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came . 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut , and stood in the midst, and said , Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed : blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed.
Some things are true whether or not you see, hear, or even believe them.
-
Yes sir!
I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism. And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it. Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus. Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.
...maybe you need to pray for your area and area Pastors man. Again, I was giving you biblical references but if you read my previous posts you will read that not only me but many others in my area have seen people being healed from all sorts of stuff. Autism? I've yet to see it but I know it'll happen. Maybe it has happened by your area and you're not aware. I really don't know. I do know that I can't state that God isn't healing anymore because that just isn't the case in my area or church or in my life. I see lives being restored all of the time. I "had" bells palcy. The doctor said I was only going to have limited movement in my face. I said, "God will heal me" and prove otherwise. I went in the car and prayed. The next day I prayed and that evening my Pastor prayed for me as well. That night I felt a tingly feeling in my face after the prayer. The next day I had some movement where I didn't have any movement. In 2 days I had complete movement of my nerves and muscles in my face. 110 percent healed till this day. You see, God is still God in 2010 just as he was over 2,000 years ago. People are the ones that have turned away or against him.
...I do agree with you on one thing Sheen.... "some" Pastors have stopped believing in the power of God and have started believing in the power of $$$$$. But again, the signs of Jesus follow those who believe him. 8)
...It's been great debating with you man. You keep me on my toes. ;D
-
Yes sir!
I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism. And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it. Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus. Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.
you realize that you are one person in a world of billions correct? things happen all over this world that could be considered miracles that you wouldnt know about so therefore who are YOU to say what hasnt been done and who are YOU to say what God WONT do?
You say you're a Christian but what kind of Christian are you? Do you believe the word? Do you believe the Bible? The Bible is something you have to either believe completely or not at all you cant believe the parts that make sense
God does a lot of things in this world that dont make sense. I could give you quite a few testimonies of things that are considered miracles that go beyond physical healing.
You want logic? Here's logic.
22 year old male.
College Student
No steady source of income. Maybe $600-$1100 a month
Cell Phone Bill = $140 a month
Utility Bills = $70 a month
New-Born Child = $400ish a month and rising.
Rent = $1,250 a month
Food = 60 a week/280-300 a month
This situation has been going on since September.
So what makes senses is that this person would have NO MONEY!!! cant afford ANYTHING. Thats a very unbalanced income to expense ratio BUT GOD
Now tell me. How much sense does it make for me to have a SURPLUS ????
Yea the argument could be he needs to get a job. Yea well i have been trying that for the last 12-18 months applying at 4-5 places a month. Getting LIED to straight to my face by managers. At this point im looking at it more as a lesson to trust God because he has provided. Every month I just look to him and say God you know what I need so i trust you to do it again. And he does.
That doesnt make sense.
Doesnt make sense how GOOD he is and how much he provides.
-
Seems like you guys are getting all bent out of shape lol. Reading your comments has led me to the conclusion that people have indeed "dumbed down" the true essence of a miracle. You are dumbing miracles down to be favors, grace, blessings, accidents and luck. Like I said, if you believe God can heal autism, then make your way down to the local treatment center and offer God's hand through prayer. Get off LGM and prove me and a billion others wrong. Otherwise, there is nothing to talk about.
And why do you tie your bills into the concept of miracle? Are you saying you dont know how your bills get paid?
-
Seems like you guys are getting all bent out of shape lol. Reading your comments has led me to the conclusion that people have indeed "dumbed down" the true essence of a miracle. You are dumbing miracles down to be favors, grace, blessings, accidents and luck. Like I said, if you believe God can heal autism, then make your way down to the local treatment center and offer God's hand through prayer. Get off LGM and prove me and a billion others wrong. Otherwise, there is nothing to talk about.
And why do you tie your bills into the concept of miracle? Are you saying you dont know how your bills get paid?
also the reason we cant just walk up into any clinic and say God heal these people is because it takes the faith of those people as well. If people dont have that faith then they wont get healed. Period.
also the reference to the bills is something to show you that while stuff may not make logical sense to you, having faith in God to work it out will change your circumstance.
Also dumbing down a miracle to favors? You need to learn to be grateful for the little blessings as well as the big blessings.
-
also the reason we cant just walk up into any clinic and say God heal these people is because it takes the faith of those people as well. If people dont have that faith then they wont get healed. Period.
also the reference to the bills is something to show you that while stuff may not make logical sense to you, having faith in God to work it out will change your circumstance.
Also dumbing down a miracle to favors? You need to learn to be grateful for the little blessings as well as the big blessings.
Well there it is. There's your excuse for God not to heal. People suffering from disease, birth defects, mental illness, physical handicaps and homosexuality all lack faith. Whatever.
I have seen this plenty of times in church. I've seen people in wheel chairs go to the alter and the loud mouth preacher starts hollering out to God and asking for His healing power. Then the preacher makes the person attempt to walk. The person falls immediately and guess what? The preacher then accuses the person of having a lack of faith. Classic. Always a catch all. Always an excuse. Its never the lack of faith from the preacher though lol! And if I was trying to run a successful scam, it would never be my fault either lol!
-
Well there it is. There's your excuse for God not to heal. People suffering from disease, birth defects, mental illness, physical handicaps and homosexuality all lack faith. Whatever.
I have seen this plenty of times in church. I've seen people in wheel chairs go to the alter and the loud mouth preacher starts hollering out to God and asking for His healing power. Then the preacher makes the person attempt to walk. The person falls immediately and guess what? The preacher then accuses the person of having a lack of faith. Classic. Always a catch all. Always an excuse. Its never the lack of faith from the preacher though lol! And if I was trying to run a successful scam, it would never be my fault either lol!
nevermind. im not going to keep going about it.
-
...so Sugarbear, how are you liking the thread thus far? lol
-
I can't speak for the ENTIRE world but I do know in my very small world, God did heal my grandmother of diabetes after having it for close to 40 years. The doctors were completely confounded and couldn't figure out why this 80 year old woman no longer needed to take the meds and had no traces of diabetes in her system anymore. Miracle?? I'd like to believe so.
As of 2008, we had a population of 6,692,030,277 people living on the Earth. (est) Now, unless I was able to personally follow each individual around for everyday of their lives and document the miracles that have been performed, or lack thereof, I would be wrong to say that God hasn't performed any miracles in the last 2000 years when their has been so many PERSONAL accounts of miraculous healing done all over the Earth.
I too , believe that a lot of what goes on in 'today's' church is junk and entertainment based , but I can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I know of many Christians/Pastors/Churches who are 100 percent legit with their walk with Christ and they have witnessed many a miracle..I just pray that you are able to witness something so magnificent in your time here on Earth and allow God to open your eyes to what he can do . If I'm to take the bible as the 100 percent truth and word of God, I'd be calling Him a liar and putting Him in a box if I made the claim that he's NOT going to be doing any more miracles..
When it comes to certain physical defects like autism and things of that nature, I do believe that in rare cases that child can be healed, but for the most part they are going to have to live their lives as such. Maybe God's NOT healing these people and still using them is a greater testimony than even healing them completely..living and telling of God's grace and mercy and not feeling sorry for themselves can cause 'regular' people to wonder why they have this peace that surpasses all understanding and a joy inside when clearly, they have these physical imperfections.
I don't like to argue when it comes to the bible but I don't see the harm in a group of people coming together and hashing out some everyday issues and concerns.just as long as everything is said in Love .I pray that you get what it is that you're searching for bro! Amen
*The man who knows something, knows that he knows nothing at all * ;D
-
whoa i think we are getting way off of the question that was asked: so regardless of his or her past mistakes and is seeking God, I mean truly seeking God, your saying a persons soul isnt more worth witnessing to, despite of a physical healing, but it all about the spiritual healing.
I have been born partially deaf to this day I am still believing in my faith I will be healed some day, till that day comes my focus is on my soul, and witnessing to some else to Jesus Christ
-
Not to stray off the subject;if you want to "see" a miracle;consider salvation.I was dammed,doomed,blind,and dead in sin-for ETERNITY!!!!!!!!!
By the GRACE of GOD (JESUS) and POWER (HIS HOLY SPIRIT);I can "see,am alive,redeemned" forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If LORD can do this,dealing with a sex-change is NO big deal!!! COLOSSIANs makes it clear that "all things are for HIS purpose,GLORY,WILL,etc.".I suggest no matter how bizarre the situation looks to us,HE is in control.HE allows things in all our lives to manifest SOMETHING of HIM.
Take heart,HE iS ABLE!!!!!
-
Ok listen guys. You cant continue to boast about what God can do. The only thing that matters is what He will do. What is the reputation of God? What miracles is He known to perform or grant through men? God can start throwing planet sized snow balls into the Earth right now, but will He? Has He? The argument is NOT what God can do. He is all powerful. Period. Its about what He WILL do.
Will God miraculously reverse a surgery and change a man back to his original sex? No. Has he ever? No. Can He? Yes. Does it matter that He can? No. Does it matter that He won't? Yes.
I'm not gonna sit here and let you all keep saying it depends on the reason a miracle is needed or it depends on the faith of the individual receiving the miracle. Mark 4:35-40 throws those theories/excuses out of the window. Jesus performed the miracle of calming a vicious storm for the disciples even though they lacked faith.
Mathew 9 also gives an account where Jesus performed the miracle of healing a paralytic based on the faith of others. Not the paralytic himself.
Other than a few times in the books of Mathew and Mark, where the people requested Jesus to perform signs because of disbelief, Jesus never even questioned why someone needed a miracle. He never refused His power for any reason either. He performed miracles when people had faith and when they didn't have faith. All they had to do was ask.
So being that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, how is it that we are not the "go-to" doctors of this world when all we have to do is ask for healing power?
My point is, maybe things have changed. I just dont feel like God is operating in the same mannor or on the same scale as biblical times.
-
DOD,your last statement about "what you feel about GOD",does what you "feel" define GOD? If your "feelings" are THE definitive force in the cosmos.then we don't need "GOD"-we just need you! Your attitude shows that you place SELF above GOD;a VERY dangerous place.
You have created an idol-you;to be above GOD HIMSELF.I beg you to reconsider and repent.It seems a lot of folks have posted to attempt to minister and nothing is piercing the heart.If you can't find ANYTHING useful in/of CHRIST;lets see YOU perform something!
Unless you are all- seeing and all-knowing(like someone else mentioned);None of us can hold a candle to CHRIST.John (baptisit) said "I am Unworthy to touch HIS sandals";in those days-HIS sandals would have probably been amply covered in road droppings.Yet JOHn realized even that was low enough for him to be ranked.Like JOHN said "I must decrease,HE must increase".
What's gone on (or is going on) to trigger this angst bro? praying 4 U
-
Ok listen guys. You cant continue to boast about what God can do. The only thing that matters is what He will do. What is the reputation of God? What miracles is He known to perform or grant through men? God can start throwing planet sized snow balls into the Earth right now, but will He? Has He? The argument is NOT what God can do. He is all powerful. Period. Its about what He WILL do.
Will God miraculously reverse a surgery and change a man back to his original sex? No. Has he ever? No. Can He? Yes. Does it matter that He can? No. Does it matter that He won't? Yes.
I'm not gonna sit here and let you all keep saying it depends on the reason a miracle is needed or it depends on the faith of the individual receiving the miracle. Mark 4:35-40 throws those theories/excuses out of the window. Jesus performed the miracle of calming a vicious storm for the disciples even though they lacked faith.
Mathew 9 also gives an account where Jesus performed the miracle of healing a paralytic based on the faith of others. Not the paralytic himself.
Other than a few times in the books of Mathew and Mark, where the people requested Jesus to perform signs because of disbelief, Jesus never even questioned why someone needed a miracle. He never refused His power for any reason either. He performed miracles when people had faith and when they didn't have faith. All they had to do was ask.
So being that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, how is it that we are not the "go-to" doctors of this world when all we have to do is ask for healing power?
My point is, maybe things have changed. I just dont feel like God is operating in the same mannor or on the same scale as biblical times.
...hmmm, interesting. I have to ask you this. Why do you feel things have changed? Were you expecting some sort of miracle in your life or a family members life and feel let down or disappointed? Or is it that again you're just not seeing these things happen in your area?
-
Malachi 3:6-7
Numbers 23:19
James 1:17
1 Sam 15:29
Isiah 40:8; 55:11
Heb 13:7-8
-
Ok listen guys. You cant continue to boast about what God can do. The only thing that matters is what He will do. What is the reputation of God? What miracles is He known to perform or grant through men? God can start throwing planet sized snow balls into the Earth right now, but will He? Has He? The argument is NOT what God can do. He is all powerful. Period. Its about what He WILL do.
Will God miraculously reverse a surgery and change a man back to his original sex? No. Has he ever? No. Can He? Yes. Does it matter that He can? No. Does it matter that He won't? Yes.
I'm not gonna sit here and let you all keep saying it depends on the reason a miracle is needed or it depends on the faith of the individual receiving the miracle. Mark 4:35-40 throws those theories/excuses out of the window. Jesus performed the miracle of calming a vicious storm for the disciples even though they lacked faith.
Mathew 9 also gives an account where Jesus performed the miracle of healing a paralytic based on the faith of others. Not the paralytic himself.
Other than a few times in the books of Mathew and Mark, where the people requested Jesus to perform signs because of disbelief, Jesus never even questioned why someone needed a miracle. He never refused His power for any reason either. He performed miracles when people had faith and when they didn't have faith. All they had to do was ask.
So being that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, how is it that we are not the "go-to" doctors of this world when all we have to do is ask for healing power?
My point is, maybe things have changed. I just dont feel like God is operating in the same mannor or on the same scale as biblical times.
I dont know what to say to you. Honestly you have your own opinion and thats w/e it's no point in trying to debate this. Like the whole thing about pointing out my past experience and having God show up and make ways and open doors to allow me to pay my bills that dont make sense to you. To others it makes sense but like i said its your opinion and you are entitled to it.
IF people would just trust God more and let him direct their path a lot more you would hear more testimonies the fact of the matter is that everyone has problems trusting someone they cant see and touch so they refuse to relinquish all control unto God. Thats why you wont see that many miracles. Whether its the person trying to perform the miracle or the person trying to recieve the miracle (in reference to healing) someone in there is lacking confidence in God.
-
...so Sugarbear, how are you liking the thread thus far? lol
I'm loving the thread. It's very very informative. It's seems like most churches patty cake around certain issues and this is one of them. I have to say that I really dig Sheen when it comes to stuff like this (not that I 100% agree with him). He may seem to be controversial but his responses are always thought provoking, and if they don't do anything else, his responses should push us to read and study God's word even more and get a deeper understanding. After going back and forth with Sheen you should be prepared to minister to anybody. Keep provoking thought Sheen. A lot of Christians need it :).
-
Mark 16: 17-18 says....
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
DOD, I respect your opinion, you have a right to it. But if we all claim to be Christians the word of God has to be our final authority. If you have some valid biblical proof that God will not perform any miracles today then state it. If not I'd really be carefull of what I say lest you find yourself fighting against God. God doesn't play favorites (Rom. 2:11) What He's done for one person he'll do for anyone. So to say that God won't do miracles today goes against what the bible teaches. Is God a liar then??? Romans 3:4 answers that.
-
...hmmm, interesting. I have to ask you this. Why do you feel things have changed? Were you expecting some sort of miracle in your life or a family members life and feel let down or disappointed? Or is it that again you're just not seeing these things happen in your area?
Here it is J. Everytime someone goes back 2000 years to prove God's word just kills Him slowly. But you know what? People do it because making reference and reading the bible is like watching ESPN Classic highlights of God's greatest work. My point is, Jesus made headlines through the power of God. Its been over 2000 years. He passed the torch, so, Who got next?
I feel like things have changed because there is no earth shaking buzz about what God is doing anywhere like biblical times. In those times, miracles had such an impact, they spread throughout the land without even the help of youtube and facebook! Lets face it, even Jesus was addicted to the buzz. He knew the best way to spread God's word would be to demonstrate His power and authority through acts. Jesus backed up His talk. In this present day, people have dumbed down miracles to the point where "its a miracle to wake up every morning." No, its a "blessing" to be in the land of the living. You're supposed to wake up everyday if nothings wrong with you lolol.
It just seems like God's greatest work was done in the begining stages of Christianity. Now that it is the world's largest religion, shouldn't the impact on the world be even greater? Or should we keep counting bills being paid as miracles, thus strengthening the stereo-type that Christianity is the "poor man's religion?"
No disrespect to your situation Drumzalicious, but unless you can come on this board and tell us that you have absolutely no idea how your bills get paid, then you cant label it a miracle. Miracles defy the laws of nature and human explanations.
And again, Im not saying that God cant do all things. What Im saying is, what good is it to have electricity in your house if you cant turn the lights on? Well, I guess for some people, its ok to continue talking about how much electricity you have even though the lights havn't been truned on in over 2000 years.
-
Here it is J. Everytime someone goes back 2000 years to prove God's word just kills Him slowly. But you know what? People do it because making reference and reading the bible is like watching ESPN Classic highlights of God's greatest work. My point is, Jesus made headlines through the power of God. Its been over 2000 years. He passed the torch, so, Who got next?
I feel like things have changed because there is no earth shaking buzz about what God is doing anywhere like biblical times. In those times, miracles had such an impact, they spread throughout the land without even the help of youtube and facebook! Lets face it, even Jesus was addicted to the buzz. He knew the best way to spread God's word would be to demonstrate His power and authority through acts. Jesus backed up His talk. In this present day, people have dumbed down miracles to the point where "its a miracle to wake up every morning." No, its a "blessing" to be in the land of the living. You're supposed to wake up everyday if nothings wrong with you lolol.
It just seems like God's greatest work was done in the begining stages of Christianity. Now that it is the world's largest religion, shouldn't the impact on the world be even greater? Or should we keep counting bills being paid as miracles, thus strengthening the stereo-type that Christianity is the "poor man's religion?"
No disrespect to your situation Drumzalicious, but unless you can come on this board and tell us that you have absolutely no idea how your bills get paid, then you cant label it a miracle. Miracles defy the laws of nature and human explanations.
And again, Im not saying that God cant do all things. What Im saying is, what good is it to have electricity in your house if you cant turn the lights on? Well, I guess for some people, its ok to continue talking about how much electricity you have even though the lights havn't been truned on in over 2000 years.
its not that i dont know how my bills get paid its that random checks will come in right on time. I mean there is a lot of stuff i could go into detail on but i wont cause its pointless.
Also the thing is with these miracles that you seek they happen all the time just because you dont hear about them doesnt mean they dont happen. Thats all we are trying to get you to understand.
There are testimonies from my church every Sunday about someone who got healed from some sort of sickness and things like that. Companies calling saying we have canceled your debt dont worry about paying us. I mean just because YOU dont hear about it doesnt mean it isnt happening.
And yes me a person fully healthy will take someone saying "Bro i just felt led to give you this $100" as a miracle when I just found out my child has no diapers. Stuff where my mom calls me and says son you got a check for $950 in the mail and I'm getting an eviction notice. That stuff is just scratching the surface. So what it wasnt me getting healed from blindness or me stopping rain fact of the matter is a miracle is a miracle no matter how big or small and the only thing that determines how big or small it is would be personal opinion and personal perception.
-
Bottom Line......
If you only believe what you see, you have no faith.
no faith, no Jesus!
Partial belief is non belief as partial truth is a lie!
Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe!
This is a SPIRITUAL walk! The Bible is Spiritually discerned! The Spiritual realm is an INVISIBLE realm! One of the biggest problems with Christianity is the fact than man continually tries to naturally interpret it.
-
Bottom Line......
If you only believe what you see, you have no faith.
no faith, no Jesus!
Partial belief is non belief as partial truth is a lie!
Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe!
This is a SPIRITUAL walk! The Bible is Spiritually discerned! The Spiritual realm is an INVISIBLE realm! One of the biggest problems with Christianity is the fact than man continually tries to naturally interpret it.
And there it is.
-
Here it is J. Everytime someone goes back 2000 years to prove God's word just kills Him slowly. But you know what? People do it because making reference and reading the bible is like watching ESPN Classic highlights of God's greatest work.
...I wouldn't state that by reading scripture, quoting it and preaching it would slow down Jesus' Gospel and teachings. The Gospel is Life. It is the reason why many of us are believers in Christ. There are still many people that have not heard of Jesus' Gospel. Many! The church still has a lot of work to do other than sitting around trying to get rich.
You know what though? I see God's greatest work when I see lives come out of a drug addiction to accept Christ in their hearts and turn from that lifestyle. I see God's greatest work when I see a marriage being restored and truly blessed when nothing else has worked for them. I see God's greatest work when I open my eyes every morning and hear my wife and daughter. I see God's greatest work on a daily basis man.
My point is, Jesus made headlines through the power of God. Its been over 2000 years. He passed the torch, so, Who got next?
...I like this a lot Sheen. The answer: We all do. The "church". His Followers. The signs should be following us. This is a tough thing for most to swallow even myself. The church needs to turn back to seeking God's Presence, rendering themselves unto him and trusting in him COMPLETELY! But my friend, this is also a sign. It is a sign of the "end times." Many will lose that first love for Christ. Many will pervert the Gospel of Jesus. Many will just stop believing. Many will listen to false prophets and be fooled. BUT, there is still a large number of His Followers that have not thrown in the towel and have said NO to sin and YES to Christ and His teachings. They're spreading the Gospel of Jesus and are seeing lives restored both spiritually and physically. There are many testimonies all over the world that will tell you God is still God, yesterday, today and forever.
...Maybe you just need to pray for the ministers in your area. Shoot, whose to say God isn't calling you to be the one to bring change to your area? Ever think about that? Who's to say God isn't knocking at your hearts door right now because you're the one chosen to be His Ambassador in your area? hmmmm...
-
Bottom Line......
If you only believe what you see, you have no faith.
no faith, no Jesus!
Partial belief is non belief as partial truth is a lie!
Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe!
This is a SPIRITUAL walk! The Bible is Spiritually discerned! The Spiritual realm is an INVISIBLE realm! One of the biggest problems with Christianity is the fact than man continually tries to naturally interpret it.
+2
-
Well because people are rating bills being paid and simply having a family on the same scale as God parting the Red Sea and Noah's Ark, this is a dead issue. In fact, I've been looking 4 days for a pair of socks in my drawer. When I find them, I will indeed call the event one of God's greatest miracles as well.
The end.
-
Well because people are rating bills being paid and simply having a family on the same scale as God parting the Red Sea and Noah's Ark, this is a dead issue. In fact, I've been looking 4 days for a pair of socks in my drawer. When I find them, I will indeed call the event one of God's greatest miracles as well.
The end.
...lol. As always, its fun debating with you. 8)
-
Lol yes sir J! Likewise! And good one sugarbear!
-
*takes a deep breath*
I left Christianity at age 19 for the very same reasons that Sheen has highlighted.
I attended a Pentecostal church all my life, and heard about the power of God three times a week, and I accepted it as fact. However, around age 18, it started to bother me that, for all I had heard of God's power, I had never seen it on the level that my Pastor and other Christians claimed it could manifest. I had heard people claim miracles that, in my opinion, could be explained in other ways, but....
...I put it out of my mind. Outside of the miracles, I never 'felt' the same thing that caused other Christians to faint, dance, and run-around the church. I believed in my heart that I was giving my all, but I always felt like like what was true for everyone else, was not necessarily true for me.
So, at age 19, I decided I couldn't remain a Christian if it didn't feel real to me. Of course, this wasn't an easy transition, because after so many 'fire and brimstone' messages - you want to be CERTAIN that you're not making the wrong decision, because the consequences are .... extreme.
So, in so many words, I can feel where dude on drums is coming from. I felt like I should have had a first-hand experience of the power of God that was written about in the Bible after so many years of going to church. Church amounted to nothing more than emotionalism, sensationalism, and tithing and offering, in my experience.
It's not that I'm saying, 'I'LL NEVER BE A CHRISTIAN AGAIN!!1!" - it's just that I need more than a feel-good sermon, and questionable interventions of the divine in order to do that.
*exhales*
4HisGlory, don't ban me for being a heathen.
-
...I for one appreciate your honesty. *Ok, here it goes*
...I was born into the Pentecostal religion. Grandson of a Pastor and raised in what is known as the "fire & brimstone" church. We moved to the U.S. and found a little Pentecostal church and by the age of 12 while fasting at a youth camp, I was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Why? idk. I wanted to feel God's Presence in my life and that is the way that God allowed me to feel a little bit of his Glory. I continued to attend the church I was in with my parents but after that experience I knew there was something greater than the "don't do this, wear that" sermons that I was hearing. I wanted to actually have a relationship with God but didn't know how. I didn't know where to begin.
...My family moved to my current church where I learned how to have a "relationship" with the Lord. Although the sermons were strong, I was also being taught new things as to how to seek God and have a relationship with him. At the same time I was witnessing how God made and is still making many miracles at my church. Even today that we've just completed a year under our new Pastor. A recent one was during Holy Communion.
...m4L, I know where you're coming from. I've been there. I wondered many things about many Pastors and have seen many people that have been hurt by the so called church. I've seen how some people dance around the church, speak tongues and after church go commit all kinds of sins. I didn't question God on that. I've always wanted to be different. I've always wanted to learn what it was to walk with Christ. That's it. I remember growing up and people getting on me and my friends at church because we weren't speaking tongues etc. It wasn't till later on in life that I had the opportunity to meet a truly Holy Spirit filled woman, which didn't even move a hair and spoke with a soft gentle voice, that I knew for a fact that God dealt with each and everyone of us differently. She wasn't running around, acting crazy, with no type of control. This lady was very much the definition of peace be still.
...I have childhood friends that are no longer in church because of the ignorance that went on and probably still goes on in some churches today. Like I've stated before though, I see how God moves in my church and in my life. The Gospel that is being presented in my church and in many other churches is transforming lives and is easy to understand and follow. lol
...man, the biggest thing for us Christians is to have a relationship with God and to obey His commands. If you were doing that but the "church" treated you wrongly, just know that God saw and still sees your heart. But He wants you to trust Him fully and take your eyes off of the non sense of people. When you do that, you'll see the gifts he has for you. The thing is that it takes more than just attending church services. Man you have my number, call me man. I'd love to chat with you gentlemen.
-
...btw, I doubt you'll get banned this time around. lol
-
Well because people are rating bills being paid and simply having a family on the same scale as God parting the Red Sea and Noah's Ark, this is a dead issue. In fact, I've been looking 4 days for a pair of socks in my drawer. When I find them, I will indeed call the event one of God's greatest miracles as well.
The end.
nah dude your missin it still.
-
*takes a deep breath*
I left Christianity at age 19 for the very same reasons that Sheen has highlighted.
I attended a Pentecostal church all my life, and heard about the power of God three times a week, and I accepted it as fact. However, around age 18, it started to bother me that, for all I had heard of God's power, I had never seen it on the level that my Pastor and other Christians claimed it could manifest. I had heard people claim miracles that, in my opinion, could be explained in other ways, but....
...I put it out of my mind. Outside of the miracles, I never 'felt' the same thing that caused other Christians to faint, dance, and run-around the church. I believed in my heart that I was giving my all, but I always felt like like what was true for everyone else, was not necessarily true for me.
So, at age 19, I decided I couldn't remain a Christian if it didn't feel real to me. Of course, this wasn't an easy transition, because after so many 'fire and brimstone' messages - you want to be CERTAIN that you're not making the wrong decision, because the consequences are .... extreme.
So, in so many words, I can feel where dude on drums is coming from. I felt like I should have had a first-hand experience of the power of God that was written about in the Bible after so many years of going to church. Church amounted to nothing more than emotionalism, sensationalism, and tithing and offering, in my experience.
It's not that I'm saying, 'I'LL NEVER BE A CHRISTIAN AGAIN!!1!" - it's just that I need more than a feel-good sermon, and questionable interventions of the divine in order to do that.
*exhales*
4HisGlory, don't ban me for being a heathen.
Church
-
WOW.....this is a good one....
A lot of people on here (including myself) have the faith based testimonies of how God Blessed them and placed favor over their lives....im sure Sheen proably has a few of those too...
But I see what Sheen is sayin though....like a lot of times in the church people tend to overblow things to give the feel good story of the week.
EXAMPLE: Im in college, my tuition is $41,000 a year. My bill for a semester after my financial aid package was like $2500. A few weeks later we get a letter saying bill is paid...COOL...could have easily had the church buckin and runnin wit the "the Lord performed a miracle on my finances" speech. But i didnt.....My college is a predominantly white school so it looks out for the minorities and spreads around grant money when others leave/drop out...
Was it a Blessing? Yup
Was it Favor? You bet
Was it a MIRACLE? No
-
WOW.....this is a good one....
A lot of people on here (including myself) have the faith based testimonies of how God Blessed them and placed favor over their lives....im sure Sheen proably has a few of those too...
But I see what Sheen is sayin though....like a lot of times in the church people tend to overblow things to give the feel good story of the week.
EXAMPLE: Im in college, my tuition is $41,000 a year. My bill for a semester after my financial aid package was like $2500. A few weeks later we get a letter saying bill is paid...COOL...could have easily had the church buckin and runnin wit the "the Lord performed a miracle on my finances" speech. But i didnt.....My college is a predominantly white school so it looks out for the minorities and spreads around grant money when others leave/drop out...
Was it a Blessing? Yup
Was it Favor? You bet
Was it a MIRACLE? No
Church
-
WOW.....this is a good one....
A lot of people on here (including myself) have the faith based testimonies of how God Blessed them and placed favor over their lives....im sure Sheen proably has a few of those too...
But I see what Sheen is sayin though....like a lot of times in the church people tend to overblow things to give the feel good story of the week.
EXAMPLE: Im in college, my tuition is $41,000 a year. My bill for a semester after my financial aid package was like $2500. A few weeks later we get a letter saying bill is paid...COOL...could have easily had the church buckin and runnin wit the "the Lord performed a miracle on my finances" speech. But i didnt.....My college is a predominantly white school so it looks out for the minorities and spreads around grant money when others leave/drop out...
Was it a Blessing? Yup
Was it Favor? You bet
Was it a MIRACLE? No
cool testimony. (I just finished school myself so i've experienced the stress that comes with school financially)
I don't see why we have to make such a distinction between the name we choose to call these mysterious happenings of our lives.
I believe God is the same God and still does miraculous things today. There isn't anything wrong with calling your experience miraculous. Although your experience didn't deal with the interruption of the laws of nature, it was a statistically unlikely (and beneficial) event
I believe God still does miracles today.
Regarding what He will and will not do, We have to remember that not everything we ask of Him gets a "Yes". I believe He does things according to His Will.
-
My college is a predominantly white school so it looks out for the minorities and spreads around grant money when others leave/drop out...
Was it a Blessing? Yup
Was it Favor? You bet
Was it a MIRACLE? No
I can tell you right now that 99% of schools Absolutely do NOT do this. That is a huge blessing.
Usually if a student drops out, that doesn't have any effect on what others owe the institution.
For those who aren't in school, this occurrence at any school is absolutely unheard of. Praise God for that
-
WOW.....this is a good one....
A lot of people on here (including myself) have the faith based testimonies of how God Blessed them and placed favor over their lives....im sure Sheen proably has a few of those too...
But I see what Sheen is sayin though....like a lot of times in the church people tend to overblow things to give the feel good story of the week.
EXAMPLE: Im in college, my tuition is $41,000 a year. My bill for a semester after my financial aid package was like $2500. A few weeks later we get a letter saying bill is paid...COOL...could have easily had the church buckin and runnin wit the "the Lord performed a miracle on my finances" speech. But i didnt.....My college is a predominantly white school so it looks out for the minorities and spreads around grant money when others leave/drop out...
Was it a Blessing? Yup
Was it Favor? You bet
Was it a MIRACLE? No
Different strokes for different folks. I know some people who would go crazy over that but to each his own man.